Honorless

Comparing what Vasher said about the process of Returning with Cognitive Shadows elsewhere, specifically with Kelsier and Ashravan. How different was Kelsier's situation then, as a Cognitive Shadow? It seemed continuous: he was a person, then he was a... ghost, for lack of a better term. That instantaneousness and continuity from being a living person to a shadow of one makes me think that it was the same Kelsier. He was supposed to go to the Beyond, whether that be non-existence/"true death" or an afterlife, so that suggests the same thing, Kelsier wasn't technically a full-fledged Cognitive Shadow yet, just the Cognitive aspect/self/mind, he became one after Preservation dunked him in the Pool. So, I think Kelsier is the same Kelsier. For Ashravan... I don't think it's quite the same Ashravan. Unless you believe people are basically just data. I created a topic wondering on Ashravan and what exactly Shai did a while back: Now with Vasher's thoughts on being a Returned has made me look back at it and wonder... Vasher said that Endowment's Divine Breath basically seeped through his Spiritweb and created a replacement for the spark-of-life, the Investiture that is the "soul" (which I think is the mind or the Cognitive aspect of the self, which makes sense as this is the part that goes to the Beyond or lingers on as a Cognitive Shadow). Much like someone else's Breath in a Lifeless, the Returned soul tricks the Spiritual into believing the person is still "alive" They don't even think they are the same person, do they? They don't have any memories of their old selves, they don't retain any continuity. But speaking of continuity as a measure of self reminds me of that belief system that Arclo mentioned: a group of people believe that they only live for a day, when they go to sleep, they die. Next morning a new soul takes their place, going about their life, with the memories of those who came before. Scientifically too, we're not quite as continuous as we like to think we are (I highly recommend this Kurzgesagt video: With Ashravan, Shai basically provided a replacement spark-of-life to Ashravan from the Dor's Investiture, filtering the Investiture with her Soulstamps, to make the will-be Ashravan's Cognitive self more believable to Ashravan's Spiritweb. Recording all the things that made Ashravan... Ashravan. Everything that made him tick. Who are we without our catalogue of memories, our experiences? Are we just an "I"? What's the point of an "I" when that could basically become anybody depending on their experiences which would shape them? Old philosophical quandaries... Of the other Cognitive Shadows that we see, Shades barely count as they seem to have been stripped of anything that made them an individual. They seem to be just rogue sparks-of-life, operating on strange rules. The Fused do maintain continuity from what we understand so far, the only thing that changes is the Physical body. We don't know the process that made the Heralds Cognitive Shadows. It seems Kelsier got very, very lucky. As for Vasher, I'm going to trust his assessment due to his demonstrated aptitude so far, and what he's told us matches with what else we've seen so far. So, yeah, I think I tentatively agree with Vasher that the Returned don't really Return, they just get copied. Brandon himself has spoken about Returning both ways: as Divine Breath acting like Preservation's Investiture did with Kelsier, sticking them and making them persist. That it heals body (Physical), mind (Cognitive) and soul (Spiritual). Which doesn't really preclude the Vasher's interpretation/observation. But he's also compared it to the Lifeless. So, he's probably sticking with both interpretations are valid here. Heck, Vasher made me wonder if she made them (the Cognitive self) choose whether or not to Return but let them pass on either way and then used her Divine Breath.

The Emperor's Soul does not take place in the third continent of Sel. It's on the same continent as Sarene's homeland. On Nazh's map the Rose Empire is marked as "Rose Barbarians".

I hope they open Urithiru to tourists soon, I wanna visit Oh... right...

That's true. Someone else got spoiled because they visited my profile and my comments in the spoiler forums are visible in my profile. This one I'm not sure if anything can be done about.

Welcome to the Shard! I don't think having a good social life precludes reading novels. Do both or whatever that time allows and you can really enjoy

Great! Look forward to seeing your thoughts on next Tuesday's chapter! (I really don't understand how someone could not view the preview chapters). Also fellow Truthwatcher here!

Welcome to the Shard! Are you keeping up with the Rhythm of War preview chapters? Have you taken the official Knights Radiant quiz, what Order did you get?

All your food turns into sandwiches. You're the sandwich Midas. Oh you like pasta? Poof! It's a sandwich now. Oh you like that book? Poof! It's a sandwich now. Oh you're sleepy? Poof! The bed is a sandwiches! Oh you need toilet paper? I wish for my pockets to always have loose change

I dunno about them being non-spoilery if you spend too much time on the Shard, if you do then just see Eric's video. Even if they are just giving their impressions of the book, that can colour our impressions a bit, as we look for the things that made them feel that way. I think I kinda regret clicking on those videos.

Ooh Who's your least favourite character in the Cosmere so far?

Welcome to the Shard! So what Knights Radiant Order would you be in?

What is this terrible light? Compliments?!! Aaaaaaa! My fatal weakness! I'm meltiiiiiiiing........

Thank you! Hear that everyone? I got big guns! Git gud noobs

Hopefully it goes better than her attempts to make a stick fire. I'd rather she not play around with stuff like friggin gamma rays too much.

Hi! Welcome to the Shard!

Half the time it's Chaos doing the PMing when issues arise, the mod who's online the most, and then there's the Shardcast. It's obvious this site still stands because someone thought it was worth putting (how many years now?) of love & dedication into it. Even when it's nice people, managing a large group of people is not easy. Most other fandoms do not have such a great platform to connect and talk, so thank you for doing all this.

Oh yeah and then he-

Probably Yolen

Yup, Oathbringer flashbacks Also Final Empire and of course The Stick flexing on Shallan, refusing to be fire and being so much more set in its Identity compared to her. Double flexing!

The last lines of that chapter makes it clear how Kaladin feels about it.

Welcome (back) to the Shard!