Honorless

Looked it up. No, Leras seemed to be referring to something else. He mentioned the 16 Metals directly afterwards. But before that he mentioned that "the boiling point of water or the freezing point" was an indication of the "weapon [he] had buried". Whatever it was, he was either dismissive of it or thought it wasn't as directly relevant as the metals.

Of course, it has just been a while since I've discussed Mistborn, so I got excited. Happy reading!

Welcome to the Shard, @Raphaborn! For a minute there, we were afraid that the Ghostbloods had poached you away from us (they tend to steal our recruits) So, do you have access to a system of Investiture? If not then we, the Shard can always help you get Invested. Tell us, what would you like to have? The Metallic Arts, the Surges, perhaps BioChromatic Breaths?

@Elend Venture, that boon/curse was pure, unadulterated GOLD!

Wait what? Are you in the military?

Within a real-world historical context, such people are often considered national heroes, with many, if not all, modern nation-states being founded on blood (Genghis Khan being the most famous and least politically incendiary example). It's horrifying in our times, yes but we stand on the shoulders of giants. Dalinar too, would most likely be remembered as a tragic, repentant, heroic figure in Roshar's history (assuming Odium doesn't blow them all sky high) Yes, what he did constitutes as genocide. It was horrifying. I, personally, draw the line on being redeemable well away from what he did (having thousands of people set on fire). But in the end, it comes down to the fact that we're not from Rathalas or even Roshar. We've seen things, very intimately, from Dalinar's point-of-view and so are *hoping* for him to redeem himself. We do have real life examples of victims forgiving perpetrators of genocide, in fact one of the examples you mentioned, the Rwandan Genocides have multiple examples of this. Whether you find this inspiring or horrifying is on you. I think... well, I've been told all my life to forget and forgive, but I hope no one blames me for finding the idea of forgiving such an act utterly unimaginable (and if not, oh boy, we're gonna have a long talk and heads are gonna roll) It's a well researched topic since ancient time in the ethics branch of philosophy: where do we draw the moral line? I'm sorry that at the end of such a long spiel my response is simply "I'm undecided". But I can't forgive Dalinar. And I can't hate Dalinar. A non-answer, I know, but that's the sum of what I feel.

@Parallax, the morality of Stormlight characters is a divisive issue. I can see that you've had the chance to listen to the opinions of people who've disagreed with you on whether or not Dalinar *should* be forgiven. Going forward, know that this post is being written (well, typed, whatever!) by someone who can't bring themselves to hate Amaram or Moash, all the while bawling like a baby while reading Kaladin chapters. To begin with, I do not quite think that Sanderson's views on morality were eye-popping/eye-opening/revelatory but his attitude towards various issues and actually visibly *moving forwards*, like representation of females and LGBT in fantasy are commendable, especially when so many authors just make excuses (only 10% people are gay!, homosexuality doesn't add anything to the plot! or strong female characters exist on other continents where the story isn't set!). I'm comfortable with extending my trust towards him, hoping that he will incorporate in his writings characters who are of different sexualities and religious beliefs (thank you for Jasnah) and do it well. I'm also ready to withdraw that trust if that doesn't happen (sorry Ranette and Drehy are just side characters). It's all right, Dalinar's actions are questionable and if he is simply forgiven in the next book, there would be real-world consequences. For now though, Brandon has done nothing for me to not trust his handling of sensitive issues. Yes, Dalinar burned an entire city alive, no one survived (unprecedented in our world, I believe) and has so far only promised to do better. It's perfectly reasonable to resent him and in fact, never like him again regardless of his actions going forwards (mass murder via setting people on fire is quite a line to draw). There are schools of thought on this very issue that exist: consequencialism and deontological ethics. Jasnah had, in book 1, briefly gone over them with Shallan, which makes me think that yes, Dalinar is going to have a lot to answer for, going forwards. It won't just be swept under the rug for plot convenience. Furthermore this seems to be the theme of the Stormlight Archives: becoming a better person I have similar issues with Amaram and Moash: I don't hate them. I can't. I disliked Elhokar, though not to the point of stabbing him through the heart! This is another notable thing about Sanderson's writing: I thought I was desensitized to violence in fantasy, but this book made my cold, dead heart beat in the Rhythm of Sympathy again. Amaram is best described by Jasnah: pitiably seeking self-validation at all costs. And Moash... oh Moash, please come back to Kaladin, you're hurting him, can't you see that? Then there is Shallan... no Shallan, you can't say that getting to disguise yourself as a darkeyes is a good thing and then be horrified that they might be able to disguise themselves as lighteyes! No, comparing peasants to women doesn't degrade anyone. There are women who are peasants, what about them Shallan? Shallan, I'm so sorry, I didn't know what you had to do, your parents were messed up, you do deserve love and happiness and a chance to live and grow! Yeah, Stormlight characters are like that. Going forwards, you do have people in this community who felt Dalinar's actions as a slight, a betrayal. He isn't a clear-cut character. I'm bored of clear-cut characters. Let's take the time to ask ourselves the questions raised by this book rather than just losing ourselves into the storms of Roshar. We don't have to make up our minds now, the story isn't over yet. Even when it is, I'm sure I'll revisit it and find that my opinions have changed. tl;dr: I agree, Dalinar did something horrible and reprehensible. I'm with you in looking forwards on whether or not he redeems himself (or if certain actions can cross the line into being irredeemable, which would be my personal views on ethics, something that this book has successfully made me question). I am ready to change my mind on either count, and I hope you will stay with us on this journey (and that of Dalinar's)

@Hakusho Slick, I felt every time when Kaladin got hurt, so can't disagree with your picks. For me, the ending of The Final Empire and The Hero of Ages were the most painful. As well as in Oathbringer, when Anyway, enjoy theory-crafting on the Shard!

Was it, though? I thought it was the Thunderclast's spirit

As you should! Have an upvote!

Wow. Justice, as in righteousness. Vengeance? Correct meaning, but the connotations can present themselves to be arguable. It fits with the rest.

Granted, the Nightwatcher does not give you a bane. Many years down the line, the ability you had granted humanity, by sticking your neck out to a spren known to take delight in twisting humanity's wishes, is now being twisted by humanity itself. Why would rulers even need propaganda when information can be directly transmitted to someone's brain? Now, there is only one outlook, one style, one opinion, everything is monotone and homogeneous... But before that dystopian world came to be, there was, and not for a brief few years but for entire generations, an era of human discovery, unity and progress. Brought by you, during your lifetime. Whereas this dystopian world isn't during your lifetime. So, why care, right? Surely the Nightwatcher's boon was only that and if this was the price, it was worth it. Your discoveries have, after all, not been forgotten I wish for luck (specifically, the good kind)

Yes. There are so many unattainable desires that even someone sound & healthy might have. Yet, we've all been in vulnerable places before. We like to think of ourselves as stable but really we're far more reactionary than that. The mirror, remember, isn't just an indicator. It's not static. It can show you your ugliest or most repressed desires, bringing them back to the forefront. It can and will evolve with you. You will keep coming back to it. It can easily grasp you in a positive feedback loop. You keep coming back to it because the possibilities it shows you, of things you can't have or things that are beyond the mundane for you. That inevitability of losing a loved one, yet being able to seemingly interact with them, like shown in the book itself. Can you imagine how dangerous that alone could make it? It's drug and internet and TV as the older generations demonize them, and that's Erised at its best.

They definitely are! Also, the 'kh' sound, how long I have waited to have that sound in a fantasy language! Now, it's in the names of several main characters! Though it will probably turn out to be pronounced like the word kohl. Checked Coppermind and yup. I'm still saying what I see: "Kholin"

Do you, really? I find the idea of the Erised slightly horrifying. It was potentially the most dangerous thing in the castle, only behind the Philosopher's Stone If it were to actually exist... looking into it could be the boon and the bane

@Michael Marssen, let's do so then! I'll PM you

I got Skybreaker (I almost always do, got Elsecaller once). Don't disagree but I think I'll be a better Lightweaver.

@Hakusho Slick, what's your least favourite moment in the books?

@bxcnch and @Paalm Tree, so relatable! If I held the Shard of Ambition it would probably just wink out If I tried to hold the Shard of Honor, there would be an explosion If I tried to hold the Shard of Preservation, it would probably become Stasis (or hopefully Negentropy!..... never mind) If I tried to hold Devotion, it would probably turn sentient and throw up If I tried to hold Dominion, nothing would happen, it would probably dominate me and turn me into a zombie If I held Cultivation, it would become Desertification If I tried holding Odium, it would turn into Negativity (sorry, not sorry)

Hello again, @hoiditthroughthegrapevine! *smiles ominously* "Your wish is granted", the Nightwatcher said, "huh, you know that's one of the simplest requests I've gotten" You tried to reply but the only thing that came out was guacamole. *You* were the guacamole machine! "You never learn", the Nightwatcher smiled happily. She took out another coin from somewhere among her many hands, passing it along from hand to hand and finally into your hand, alongside the first coin she had slipped in while you were distracted. She got another plate for Cultivation. "Thank you for the meal! This smells delicious!" I wish for the extinction of mosquitoes

How are these two: I reused the themes of silence and dying from the book Keteks because they just worked so well I also wrote another one, though it's a bit less original: I wrote them for an impromptu Creative Writing class poetry composition session, for the prompts 'echo', 'twist' and 'brilliant'

Welcome to the forums, @anticipation_Spren! Personally, I say that you go crazy on the forum theories! Spoilers don't spoil, they build up....... anticipation! Seriously though, while some Cosmere theories may get spoiled on the Shard, since you've finished the main two series you should be fine. Have fun!

Hey there, @mathiau! Oh wow, don't tell me you completed the entire Cosmere-verse in 6 months So, which book or series is your favourite?

Oh, please, please, please, please, please come back to this thread when you finish Book 3. First time reactions!!! Must haves them!

Thank you, I didn't know this one (just heard partial mentions of the WoB) Thank you for the clarification