Honorless

Oh no, I spoiled far too much. I mean, I keep insisting that some spoilers just build anticipation, but this time I really did spoil too much! I'm so sorry! You shouldn't have come to this thread before reading Aether of Night!

Don't let the people of Threnody hear you say that! Plus found this interesting WoB:

There is a bright patch of red stars visible from some of the Shardworlds, called Taln's Scar on Roshar, Red Rip on Scadrial and Starbelt on Threnody. There have been theories on whether it had something to do with the Shattering of Adonalsium, as well as associating it with Investiture corruption due to it being red Found this interesting WoB: Redshift occurs when stars are moving away from your point of view due to the rapid expansion of space. Did something happen that caused an entire stellar region to get pushed outwards? The Red Rip being related to the Shattering seems more and more likely...

Well, Odium specifically goes after Shards to kill them.

Maybe something to do with why he's bound to Braize? Edit: confirmed that Odium didn't leave any of his Investiture on Sel. No such confirmation for Threnody

So, there was this WoB: (spoilered for length) That states that the way Autonomy's Avatars work has to do with the fact that she is a Shard of Adonalsium. All the Shards were once one as Adonalsium, meaning that all the Shardworlds that he created have Intents of all the Shards combined that their Shardholders haven't accessed due to their mind's limitations. This is the difference between a Splinter and an Avatar. A Splinter is a shaved off portion of the Shard, whereas an Avatar is Investiture from Adonalsium that has the same Intent as the Shard My theory is that: couldn't someone take up enough of a mixture of different Intents to create a new Shard? Brandon does consider Harmony to be a single Shard and said that if Harmony died, he'd leave behind the Shard of Harmony, not Shards of Preservation and Ruin and it would take effort to separate them again. He has also said that Harmony could be separated into two different Shards. Furthermore, he has said that if the original Vessels were different there could have been different Shards, as well as that if the number of Shards was due to the number of original Vessels. The WoBs: Would someone be able to have the same Intent as a pre-existing Shard? I don't think so as the Investiture should be keyed to the original Shareholder but what if the new Shareholder interprets the Intent differently?

Hey @Karger, I'm sorry about the way I acted on this thread. I definitely came off way too strongly. I think I carried over a lot of the vitriol over from our arguments on one of Oltux's topics on Shardplate & Copperclouds and Skathan, where you disagreed on my defenses of your own theories. Let's just let bygones be bygones. I decided to apologize here publicly since the fight was public too. Just DM me one way or another; let's not create more of a show for future visitors to this thread.

@Weltall, that's awesome, do we have any WoBs on the rest of the questions?

We do know that Odium hasn't left any of his Investiture behind anywhere

We don't know how much time Odium spent on either Sel or Threnody but the Desolations on Roshar have been going on for thousands of years. Yeah, I agree with this

Since it has to do with his perception of himself, then I think it was his guilt at getting his team killed and then failing to save the other slaves that made him feel as though he deserved the brand.

@VinDiesel, I think you accidentally double-posted this topic. Since the other one already has a response, just delete this one. Go to Moderate>Hide> then give a reason for hiding this topic, like "accidentally double-posted" and you should be good to go!

Can Allomancy be used in the Cognitive Realm? In Secret History, Kelsier cannot use Allomancy while in the Cognitive Realm. I realize this could also be due to him not having any connection with the Physical Realm as a Cognitive Shadow but he also noted that "the souls of metal and men are the same", both glowing when viewed from the Cognitive Realm. I simply took it to mean that Allomancy doesn't work in the Cognitive but now I'm not so sure. After all, metal can be brought to the Cognitive Realm, but can they be burned while in the Cognitive Realm? Same question about Feruchemy. Can one store or tap an attribute in the Cognitive Realm? I think yes... With Hemalurgy, I want to ask who fuels it? I mean Hemalurgy is Ruin's magic, I think Ruin only fuels the theft and grafting of the stolen attributes, and that he does not provide the Investiture to fuel any stolen Investiture art, that either the original Shard still provides the necessary Investiture or that it goes through Ruin somehow, who corrupts the Investiture then passes it to the Hemalurgist. Preservation used Ruin's Investiture in the form of Atium to fuel Allomancy, but how did it also work with Feruchemy, which is of both Ruin and Preservation? I understood the concept of Atium as just a source of Investiture within Preservation's system of Allomancy but what about Hemalurgy? Trell is doing the reverse with Trellium in Ruin's system, now Harmony's system, of Hemalurgy. Shouldn't Harmony be able to sense something? The use of Hemalurgy isn't instantaneous, it's a two step process: first you have to spike someone's attributes, then you have to spike yourself. I would say Harmony should be able to sense both, even if all he's providing the Investiture for is the theft and the grafting. Plus, at the end of 'Bands of Mourning', he told Wax that "[Harmony] always take the time to have this walk". Yet he missed the spiked souls? Don't tell me that the Set managed to keep the spiked ones alive after doing that!

The Evil is probably another example of Investiture radiation caused by Ambition's Splintering, like the Shades. I was referring to lack of evidence of any planetary scale conflicts like on Roshar. But then again, we see their planet a long time after Ambition's death, also maybe Odium just directly attacked her rather than conduct any Desolation like event. We do know that they battled in the space between the worlds. The theory of Odium subverting other Shards' Intents in order to Splinter them is just a theory... oh rusts! Moving fast, starting a fire, drawing blood do sound anti-Ambition....

⚠ Mistborn: Secret History spoilers, also minor Stormlight & Elantris spoilers ⚠ Why isn't Sel irradiated though? It also houses dead Shards, is it related to how Odium locked them in the Cognitive? Or is the region-locked magic its version of getting Investiture irradiation? Why is Sel still doing so well despite having two Splinterings? Neither Threnody nor Roshar is doing so well, with one still being affected by Ambition's death and the other suffering through thousands of years of Desolations. According to WoB, if Kelsier was not around to hold Preservation after Leras' Cognitive Shadow died, Scadrial would have suffered greatly. The lack of any direct effect from the Splintering I can accept, maybe Odium finished the deed in the Cognitive or immediately locked the remnants in the Cognitive after killing Aona and Skai but why isn't there any evidence of a planet scale war? Same with Threnody, no evidence of any conflict (the Evil arrived much later), then again we don't have much information about it. Wait, there must have been some evidence of the conflict for Khriss to deduce what happened. Or there are people who still remember, also a possibility with the names of the various planets in the system and a certain comment from the Ire in Secret History. Who would the conflict be staged between on Sel, like on Roshar it was between the Humans (and Aimians) against the Singers. Was it waged between the continents on Sel? On each continent? Opelon doesn't have indications of such a conflict, except maybe that the city of Elantris and the land of Arelon was found uninhabited by its settlers (but that could also be the origin of the Ire! Who created Elantris then left the Physical Realm)... And both the Splinterings occurred way before in the timeline too... Never mind, I ended up answering my own questions even as I typed them. I still posted it though, so anyone else who stumbles upon this thread and has the same questions could have some of their questions answered.

Let me begin by saying that yes, I know that this book is semi-canonical at best, this is just for fun The two Shards on Vaeria were the Former and Decay (Former, as in someone who shapes and creates). They were later adapted into Preservation and Ruin. The Former and Preservation seem to have some differences: Preservation was said to not be able to create without Ruin, Former's Intent contains the idea of creating. This might be a contentious point though, as Preservation not being able to create without Ruin thing might've come about because without an agreement between the two, Ruin would have simply destroyed anything Preservation tried to create. It could also be that Ruin's presence allowed Preservation to create, without which he could not change anything due to his Intent. Ruin and Decay seem to be more or less the same Shard, both expressing inevitable entropy, but Decay appears to not have a magic system tied directly to him, unlike Ruin. The Fell Twins: Slaughter and Despair, Makkal and Agaris. They raise some interesting questions as to their nature. Were they Splinters, like spren? Or were they actual men who became Slivers? I think they were the former (pun intended). Their thought processes, or what we see of it anyway, seem kind of alien. They followed the letter of the rule laid down by the Former, but not the intent (also pun intended). Of course there are arguments against this: men can become just as twisted, especially over the course of hundreds of years of war, followed by imprisonment in conditions of sensory deprivation and memory loss. Then there is also the ending, where they appear to take on a human form... I don't understand who imprisoned them though The magic: Amberite, Bestarin and Night were created by Makkal (Slaughter) Verdant, Ferrous and Luminous were created by Agaris (Despair) Amberite - allows one to create and shape rose-coloured crystals into spikes, blades or armour, more powerful ones can create bigger structures. Takes the form of an embedded crystal in the back of the bearer's hand; Aether of the High Aedin royal line; end-positive. Verdant - allows one to create living vines, which are edible and nutritious though tasteless. One can also control the vines' movements to change direction mid-air, wrap someone up, find things to hold on to so as to allow the bearer to pull off a Spiderman or Tarzan impression. Takes the form of a moving vine wrapped around the user's wrist but can also grow to wrap around more of their body if the Aether or the Bond is strong; end-positive. Its source takes the form of a giant ancient tree. Bestarin - those with Bestarin bonds, when grievously wounded, can graft animal parts onto their bodies. Most notably, in the case of amputation, they can graft claws or paws and control these limbs as though they were their own; end-neutral. Ferrous - those with Ferrous bonds can build metallic architectural or mechanical structures which form around their body, trapping them within it forever. It seems that doing this also makes them functionally immortal unless the structure itself is destroyed. Other Ferrous bonded can communicate with them. A Corpate, a four limbed vehicle is a prominent example. End-neutral Night - the titular Aether, the source of which served as Makkal's prison. The well also served as the Aedin's method of public execution. The Aether of Night can be used to summon and control human shaped forms made of shadows as though the user's own body, meaning that their real body would have to remain immobile while they are controlling the shadow creatures. It can also be used to teleport oneself. It also seemingly strengthens other Aether bonds, though that may have been Makkal himself. Luminous - the secret Aether of the Vo-Dari priests. Its source also served as the prison for Agaris. The well was located in the Vo-Dari compound in the Aedin capital. It can be used to teleport others by physical contact in a flash of white light. It seems not to be true teleportation, in the sense of instantaneous travel between two points without having to traverse the distance between the two, as in the books the one being Sent can still perceive themselves "turn into light" and travelling at incredible speeds to their destination. I have a few questions regarding this: why was the Aether of Night so much more powerful than the Luminous Aether, despite them both being the divine Aethers? Are the Aethers alive? D'na's Aether certainly acts alive. Or is that just a quality of Verdant Aethers due to them creating living things? Or perhaps due to the Former mostly inhabiting their source. The creatures: The Gol - created by Makkal to be fierce warriors but changed by Agaris to be gentle lovers of art who could not create art themselves. The Shentis - humans altered by the Fell Twins, rendering them infertile, apparently the only effect aside from their physical transformation. Agaris created the virus and Makkal made its effects visible. They live near the Verdant source but never communicated with the Former or tried to form a bond with Verdant though that may be because they couldn't, perhaps due to Investiture interference The Worldbuilding The cultures were not presented in the novel very well. It was very planet of the hats and often far too close to too many real-world stereotypes. The honour-bound, the intelligent, the sensual/sexist/exotic, the religiously strict, the simple: no further characterizations, no indications that this may have been just the narrators' inexperience. The male lead's perspective on being honourable and dutiful was done well, a character archetype I usually find very annoying. The two plots problem was real: The tone of the story often did not match what was happening. At first I tried to rationalize it as the male lead seeking escapism from his responsibilities, upheaval of identity and end of the world, with the intriguing female lead would-be assassin but it became harder and harder to do so as the story went on. I did not see the plot twist at the end coming, but was quite unsatisfied with it. Religious fanatics murdering everyone, not a single Vo-Dari questioned what they were doing. It was quite difficult to sympathize with them, despite the fact that to them, their god told them to extinguish two entire Aether lines (each contains hundreds or even more than a thousand individual members). Their machinations and willingness to slaughter even members of the other two lines made them feel very flat. The conclusion to the bride problem was... problematic and not all a narratively satisfying conclusion, far too quick and "funny" series of solutions to a very tension-filled problem which could have been used to flesh out the brides and their cultures.

I don't think I'd call what Taldain's Darkside has as a magic system at all It's just that the ecosystem itself is tied to Investiture, much like with native Rosharan creatures, except this one has humans as a part of that strange ecology, as the Shifting Colors (Skycolors in prose) are also connected with the humans, we see this with Khriss' musings on Kenton's eye colour As for whether what Sel has can be classified as one magic system or many, is something Brandon draws a soft line on But he usually considers them separate due to their various differences and considers it a debate for in-world philosophers and Cosmerenauts

That's a really good question...

For the first time in fantasy, we'll get to see a world, actually multiple worlds, develop and go through various stages of civilization I don't think any other work has done this

Did you just make a The Purge reference?

Investiture irradiation...

Why was this sentence placed so inconspicuously? I'm starting to wonder if Threnody's ecosystem, not just the Shades, are as innocuous as they seem when compared to the Shades... Wait a minute, why are the mushrooms glowing in the first place?! Mushrooms aren't jellyfish! So many other ecosystems are intertwined with Investiture, look at Roshar's cycle of Highstorms for instance, or the water vines and lichen on Dayside of Taldain; apparently Darkside of Taldain also has its Investiture tied into its ecology, possibly including humans given Khriss' comments on eye colour. On Sel, the Dor might be affecting the flora and fauna in some nations: Hrovell manifests its magic system as making of potions and is also where the Jeskeri Mysteries cult/religion is very popular.

The anomaly might also maintain the same relative distance with Nalthis, therefore the two might never pass through one another. They might also move at different speeds and that would mean that they do pass through one another. But I think that would have some visible effects on Nalthis and we would have heard about it in Warbreaker. It remaining (relatively) stationary (because nothing in space can be truly stationary) would also result in the same problem. Ugh! Brain freeze! Ye-yeah, let's just look at the Three Realms as completely different planes of existence, the Cognitive only cares about perception and everything is one to the Spiritual.

@PrinceGenocide, you're gonna like these WoBs: