Frustration

The cost of entry into mining is so high that I wouldn't be able to finance the initial start.

No, I'd open a shipping company and purchase a series of warehouses around the world where I could elsegate stuff too. By saving money on travel I can undercut my competition and make billions.

Define favorite. The one I most want? Gravitation. What one would help me the most? Transportation. What ones do I find interesting? All of them. Which ones do I want to explore more? Division, Abrasion, Progression, Illumination, Transformation, Transportation, Cohesion, Tension. Answer to your question: Yes

Unless she doesn't follow the traditions of her homeland she would be Vorin, even if Theylan vorinism is a bit different.

I feel like lethal force is exactly proportional to lethal force. I also don't feel like a criminal can start a deadly confrontation with me on a whim and then retreat back into safety the moment things start going poorly for you. That seems designed to aid the criminal. Unrelated but funny video because you brought up "proportional": I'm not sure where you're getting the supposed to here, you're only supposed to use the bare minimum amount of force according to whom? She felt comfortable playing judge jury and executioner for Aesudan, who socially outranked her. Or Renarin, who might have outranked her, though exactly where he fell in succession compared to her is unclear. Or Fen who was her equal. Social class wasn't really a consideration for her. Self defense laws vary a lot depending on location. I'm assuming that what you are referring to is the obligation to retreat. Now I can understand why someone who believes in such an idea might find what Jasnah did there as overstepping her bounds. I personally disagree with obligation to retreat, but that's a massive political topic on its own that I think would be best left in politics. While she didn't actually go through with her preemptive plans, that's because other events stopped her, such as bonding Ivory. If she hadn't dropped into another plane of existence just a few minutes earlier she would have given the order to kill Aesudan. None of the nobility tried to kill her, so in that lens it took a lot more for her to try and kill the more normal people. And when did she show mercy to the nobility? The closest thing I can think of is Renarin, but if she wouldn't be willing to spare a crying darkeyes in the same situation she's even more of a monster than I believe her to be. The thing is that she's the only one to really act like that. Even her own brother doesn't act like he's better than everyone else just because he is. Dalinar might be called typically Alethi, but only by foreigners like the Azish. The entirety of WoK is Sadeas accusing him of not acting Alethi, and WoR is Dalinar fighting the Alethi culture. I think that it's more done to show the biases of the people speaking not to use Dalinar as a stand-in for the Alethi. Jasnah as far as I can tell is never called typically Alethi in the books. Her comparison to Dalinar is with her disposition, picking a stool as her preferred chair and what-not. Brandon says that the best stand-in for the Alethi is Amaram

Of course Noted

Well not even technically. The Dor corresponds most neatly to plasma, with a few odd quirks

This could be whatever Cakoban was using.

After they started a confrontation I don't think that they have any natural protections while the situation lasted. I'm not sure I understand this one. What does the balance of power have to do with it? I'm not sure how class enters the picture. Neither Jasnah nor Shallan mentioned it, and it had nothing to do with what Jasnah was trying to do.

If they had surrendered, or managed to escape and Jasnah found them later I would agree. However, in that moment, there is little distinction between retreat and repositioning. As of that moment I still consider them combatants. She didn't force the footpads to attack her. All she did was wear a particular outfit and walk down a particular street, neither of which is wrong.

I don't believe she had an obligation to spare them. While she might well have been able to survive anything they did if she planned her actions correctly, they did not know that. They were willing to kill, and having started the confrontation Jasnah has the right to deal with them as she sees fit. There was a better one in the thread I linked above But the short of it was if Batman pretended to be an old woman in crime ridden parts of town and shot anyone who tried to rob him would he be justified. I say yes. Walking public streets, and choosing to wear expensive clothing does not justify violence against you. I also believe that you have a right to defend yourself against threats. They have by their own actions voided their own rights and protections. That's honestly true. And I agree with Moash, mostly. I don't think Odium has full mind control but you make some solid points here. I honestly don't think Brandon tried to make Jasnah out to as evil as she is, he just went a little too far on what he wanted to be some darker moments.

I probably will. I just want to make sure Adonalsium wasn't a tyrant who tortured Tanavast's mother to death or something. I doubt Brandon will do something like that, but if it is I'd be willing to consider further. Just because you don't understand my position doesn't mean I'm just making this up for kicks and giggles. 1. Ad hominin 2. I have not once dismissed what Dalinar did at Rathalis, and have multiple times in this thread pointed out that that was evil. I hated Dalinar during the middle of OB. There has never been a conflict between virtue and survival in this discussion. As that is outside the scope of this discussion I will just say that if I had to chose between the two I find one far more valuable, and that a life without virtue isn't worth living and leave it at that. You don't have to discuss or judge Jasnah at all. I honestly don't hate Moash for killing Elhokar. The worst things Moash ever did was killing Jezrien and killing the people trapped in Hearthstone(though I don't recall their names). The footpads were not murdered. That was textbook self defense, and I have gone on at length about why I don't judge her for that on a different thread. If Renarin was trying to kill Jasnah at the time I wouldn't judge her for it, however he wasn't doing anything.

I was meaning if Dalinar and co knew that Sadeas hired him, but thank you

And I condemn them for being a terrible stain upon the human race. We're getting a little too close to politics here, so I'll just say I disagree and move on. I would have to disagree, the knowledge of the cosmere we have actually highlights the dangers of what Renarin and Aesudan were doing to levels Jasnah could not possibly have known. Even within the limits of what Jasnah knew what she did and planned to do was extreme. Even Dalinar who built the system you use as an excuse for her would not have taken such actions. If it had been Dalinar dealing with either Aesudan or Renarin he would speak to them, try to understand and reason with them. We even see this in his dealings with Fen in OB. When she refuses him his first reaction isn't to send Kaladin over to kill her, it isn't to conquer Theylanah, it's negotiation and understanding. Now he did beat up Elhokar, but that was done with the express purpose of teaching him that Dalinar WASN'T trying to kill him. I honestly could see Jasnah killing Elhokar in WoK to get him out of the way. If even soldiers like Kaladin and Dalinar regularly find more humane and peaceable ways to settle their disputes than Jasnah does, I have to say that doesn't reflect well on her. Moash was a product of his own choices. He can blame the lighteyes all he wants, but the only feet that walked his path were his own.

One assassination attempt, and one which even Sadeas said was cowardly and unbecoming. Yeah I'm not a huge fan of Neitzche. Well that's too kind of a way to put it, but I'll leave it at that.

No

When did they attempt to assassinate anyone? The closest I can think of was the guy who tried to drop Dalinar into the chasms, but I don't recall if they found out Sadeas was the one who hired him. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm not trying to change Jasnah's mind, because she isn't real. Her not caring about what other people think does not change the fact that she's a terrible person. I'm guessing there's something more, but I'm going to have to ask you to explain. I've had that discussion before(shoot that would have been five years ago now) but any way to capture them would require a great deal of effort to not kill or severely injure them, and then Taravangian would have had them executed anyway. Thank you for understanding That depends on what you mean by attempted murder. If like I do you go by someone trying to murder another then yes it counts. If you prefer a strictly legalistic definition if becomes a bit more of a stretch, but one I believe can still apply. If we moved Jasnah to the real world and gave her a gun, and police came in on her pointing it at Renarin she would be arrested and may well be charged with attempted murder depending on the DA.

Nope This is a city This city is in the CR This city is on Roshar

No

Wrong on both counts This place is a city This city is in the Cognitive Realm

No, they do that as practice for various military exercises, never as plans that would actually be implemented. Much less them actually preforming a military build up along the borders in preparation for an invasion. Did she prepare to go through with these plans? Does she have agents in place to carry them out? Does she have the orders written up and only awaiting her signature? If the answer is yes to these, as it was with the assassinations, then yes, she's still a monster. That's objectively not true. Some might be killers perhaps, but certainly not murderers, especially those who never see combat. The car crash is some outside event free from Jasnah's control that doesn't stop her, but causes reconsideration. With Aesudan it's Ivory bonding Jasnah, with Renarin it's him nodding. That's the problem, for Jasnah it's kill people first ask questions later. Her first reaction was not to ask questions or to confront Renarin, it was to kill him. That she switched from option one to option two, does not in my mind negate the fact that killing was her go to response. She very much did attempt to kill him. She had summoned her shardblade and had it raised to swing. That she stopped doesn't change the fact that she did try to kill him. She did do that. I did not absolve him for feeling bad later, though I can see how it might have come across like that. I used it to draw a distinction between Dalinat and Jasnah, while both have done terrible things, Dalinar regrets it. Jasnah doesn't. What in my mind absolves Dalinar was that he changed to the point that he was no longer the same person who did those acts. Well I'd be unhappy because we have already seen it happen and it would just be a repeat, not out of any offended sense of justice or anything. That one is more of a narrative desire than anything.

Bom dia Bonjour Buenos dias [Insert Italian here]

I don't care about them because they attacked her. Aesudan did nothing that warranted death, Renarin was on the ground crying, Fen was likewise guiltless. The footpads on the other hand were approaching Jasnah armed and with intent to cause harm, and potentially death. That's what makes them different in my mind. Yes, but Jasnah does not list those actions as reasons, probably because she didn't know about them. Her stated reasons were that Aesudan was power-hungry and Jasnah worried that she would destabalize the kingdom. Not that Aesudan would summon ancient spren and cause Kholinar to collapse, not that Aesudan would torture her own son. Jasnah was worried that Aesudan would be a threat to her own power. Renarin is on the ground crying, she has shardplate, and has known for her entire life that Renarin doesn't have it in him to hurt a cremling. This isn't someone she doesn't know, this is her harmless autistic cousin going through a clear mental breakdown. If Renarin hadn't looked at her and nodded she would have killed him right there, crying and without raising a hand to defend himself. As I said above, I don't think having the scope of your rifle on someone's head, and not pulling the trigger because of a car crash absolves you. That's still attempted murder. I gave Jasnah a lot of patience. I didn't post anything like this after OB(though I probably should have about Renarin), and I waited until we got her reasoning before condemning her attempted assassination of Aesudan. It's not just the killing, it's killing the innocent. This is the Stormlight forum, so I'll leave that be.