Karger

"Scribbles down notes." Excellent! Now it will be an entire coincidence if I ever revisit the topic and use considerably better wording and logic. He saved them both though so I am not sure that is really a test. A very dangerous concept. Radiant oaths do not prevent megalomania. Agreed!

What is the difference?

We do not actually know how regrowth fabrials work. Those could theoretically have just been the gemstones available at the time and place.

Possibly. However we have no indication that the different bondsmiths did different jobs.

So did I but we have different understandings about what it means. Agreed. Thanks. I will look forward to it.

Look at an example of a subculture that is carried on through family. I think modern Jews are the most obvious example. Although African Americains, many other immigrant communities in the US and around the world work just as well. OK. When storing. The things that he learned in his family and as part of a historic comunity go away. He becomes less a decedent or the originators and more equivalent to the spiritual ideal of a black slate. If he got his religion from his parents that goes away. His twinborn abilities go away. Attitudes and beliefs are weakened. When he taps all of that strengthens markedly.

Very. You become less a part of that culture and more a part depending. Tweeked a bit. You could say the same for several other Ferring abilities though. I personally put it more in line with your identity ferrings()

Why not make a larger Elantris? The fact that the aon is the size of a city seems to indicate that a larger aon draws more power. What would be the result of a careful arrangement of road building conducted solely by elantrians acting with proper intent?

Any bloodline based magic systems, the cultural part of your identity, and your connection to any cultural homeland or language.

I like Kingsdaughter's but I am going to put in another maybe it stores heritage?

Good, it makes me happy that I am not shooting wildly in the dark at nothing. Somewhat similar 1. 100% agree on the first. Not much to discuss here. 2. I had it as the service the individual order provides either to an ideal or to people in general but yours definitely works as well. It might actually be better as it is a simpler concept. 3. This is the one where we disagree(which is fine obviously). I had it as fairness/judgement and what you choose to rely on when making decisions. 4. I call it (at least mentally) the leap of faith and I see it as more testing yourself. 5. I am having some trouble with this one. We don't have any solid lintel on it. What I offered was basically a shot in the dark. Read the ones that interest you I can always use the feedback.

True. And you can personally forgive someone without changing there legal status at all. OK then fine. In that scenario oath four would tell him to trust that the enemy commanders are also going to act with the purpose of protecting there own troops and that the troops themselves either want to be there or have no better option.

Again. That really depends on who you ask. In my book forgiveness is an attempt to put away something that no longer serves a purpose or that is no longer worth the cost. Many institutions and judges therefore have the power to pardon or commute sentences that are perfectly legal and in line with justice. Kaladin killing Elhokar would be murder by deliberate negligence. He may possibly harm someone in the future but saying that not killing him necessarily leads to harm is binary theory and a logical fallacy. This does not mean his successor will be better. Out of the frying pan and into the fire. An interesting theory but we saw at least a second ideal skybreaker do just that. Also a crusade ends. Are they supposed to go back to punishing people for traffic violations and littering once they are done? Are they supposed to keep finding new crusades? Also isn't that taken care of by the third ideal? They follow the laws that they are given which also comes with a roll. If appointed as officer of the watch then that is exactly what they do and to the best of their ability. Why do they need to protect both A and B?

Kelsier also put Reshek's identity together almost instantaneously. His job required a high degree of insight and critical thinking. Obligators were bureaucracy. We are comparing James Bond to an investment banker(I am exaggerating here but it is worth notting). A few other things. Obligators specifically recruited alomancers. Even among nobility alomancy was pretty rare. That obligator in particular might have had some idea of what was happening to him(I doubt that Kolloses were completely docile even at the best of times) and he would have known to take steps to avoid dying accidentally killed by them. Skaa and Nobles were not prepared and would not have known how and would have likely died in a panic unaware.

It could have been that. Or as a high ranking obligator it could have been that he was invested and or more/better trained to keep composure under stress. He was after all employed in a war zone. Maybe but remember. Inquisitive(no pun) natures are not exactly encouraged in TFE. They have not had scientific advancement in over 1000 years.

OK so by the quote it could go either way. He might know about it from before or he might have known about it by "practical experience." However neither proves that he knows that power transferring is possible. He may or may not have made the connection or never have been told.

Welcome!

Pretty sure that was a dead Koloss.

Yes. Also it could be argued that SKybreakers, Windrunners, and Bondsmiths are quite similar in certain respects. That is one interpretation. Another is that you have to be prepared to forgive and another is that you must care more about the sanctity of life and living your life well then holding on to your anger. I am not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate?

I interpreted it as a fancy way of saying that he will be sad. Remember Glys does not seem to experience or understand time linearly or to really inhabit the present at all. I am faily sure Renarin swears oaths though. I actually think that Adolin talking to him at the time was conformation to him that the third ideal was morally right.

A while ago I made my Pattern of Radiant ideals theory. It may have come from a WoB or just from me thinking about the meaning of the oaths in general but at any rate it inspired me to start my series on Radiant oaths which some people seemed to like(you can find them in the spoiler tab if interested). However when I asked for advice a lot of people told me that my pattern of oaths was the least well explained part of the theory. So I have decided to explain my reasoning behind it. I hope you enjoy. For the record I am not just imagining things. A pattern exists and is intentional. The first ideal of all 10 radiant orders is "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." This ideal has many different interpretations across both orders and individuals. However because it applies equally to all ten orders I did not need to do any speculation. This was not true for all of the second ideals. We have a number of second ideals. These include the Windrunners "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves." The Edgedancers "I will remember those who have been forgotten." The Bondsmiths "I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together." And lastly the Skybreakers "I swear to seek justice, to let it guide me, until I find a more perfect Ideal.” These are not oaths from particularly similar orders. In personality, profession, ideology, and spren orientation(Cultivation or Honor) these are all very different. Still I find a commonality between them. They are all about service. "I will do X" although the for or why is not explicitly stated the lack of immediate rewards in the words indicates that selflessness is important here. At first I considered them just service to others however @Oltux72 pointed out that this presupposes utilitarianism and while this may be a popular form of ethics especially in the west it is far from the only one and no one can prove one to be more valid then any other. However they are still all about service. If not to another person then at least to an ideal. They are all about putting someone or something before yourself. This indicated a potential pattern across 9 of the ten orders(we Lightweavers are an odd bunch and don't exactly swear ideals) and it helped me make up several other potential ideals for order's whose words we don't know yet. Assuming then that second ideals share a central theme even if they are about different things then we can keep up this pattern for the next group of oaths oath three. We have less of these but I still am relatively confident of my conclusions. We have two alternate wordings from the Windrunners "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right." and "I will protect even those I hate, even if the one I hate most is myself." We have one from the Bondsmiths I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man, one from the Edgedancers "I will listen to those who have been ignored," and the Skybreakers oath of dedication in which they choose a code to follow. The commonality between these oaths seems to be fairness or at least suspending your bias/judgement. An interesting quantity in many humans that I think Brandon has nailed in his writing is that people who tend to judge others too harshly may not hold themselves to reasonable standards but the inverse is also quite true. People who are more excepting of others tend to deal overly harshly with themselves. One of the anciant duties of all Radiants was to be "the light of all nations." I think this sort of explains why. Perhaps more then any other group of people on Roshar they were dedicated to looking outside themselves past bias, or personal preferences to see what was needed. The forth ideal is where things get kind of complicated. We know that Skybreakers swear an ideal of crusade and carry it out to achieve this one but we have never seen it happen on screen so it is not like we have a lot to go on here. However the thing that stuck out the most to me was that the Skybreaker does not know the ultimate result of the crusade until after they are completing it. I started to see it as a leap of faith. To this I added what we know about the forth ideal for the Windrunnerrs. Many people think that oath four involves letting go but with the exception of Kaladin I do not see this as a major problem with leaders. It also strikes me as rather negative and I think it feeds to much into the paradim that causes Kaladin so much agony during WoKs. "Overcome your guilt,Kaladin. Care, but not too much. Take responsibility, but don’t blame yourself.’ Protect, save, help—but know when to give up. They’re such precarious ledges to walk. How do I do it?” It also does not really seem to fit into Brandon's idea's of leadership which we know from Mistborn, Skyward, and White Sand Prose(spoilers for each respectively). As such I think that the 4th ideal will relate to trust and that the leap of faith will apply to all orders of radiants. This would also fit in well with Dalinar's arc(In WoKs Wit tells Dalinar that he has trouble letting go of power and we see time and again that Dalinar is not partially keen on people who are not members of his own family making important decisions). Part of his arc could involve Dalinar learning to put trust in the people his appoints to important positions. The 5th ideal was the hardest since we have basically nothing on it. The only thing we know at all is that the Skybreakers consider it next to impossible to swear it and that upon swearing it the Skybreaker "becomes law." The only possibility that really made any sense to me in this situations is an admittedly utilitarian one but keep with me. The utilitarian purpose of law is to allow humans to live together peaceably. No other animal can support social arrangements as complex because they did not create objective codes of laws that most if not all people can agree are important enough to follow even when they do not make immediate sense. As such I thought that at the 5th oath a Skybreaker would realize that it is acceptable to make moral judgements in the name of preserving peace or social unity even if it is not directly precedented in the formal law code. Assuming that this pattern remains constant. Then each other Radiant order will also have to do the same and the firth ideal will also be about the ultimate goal. Thanks for reading. Below are all my theories for specific radiant orders. RoW updated version here.

I think that line could just refer to her marriage to Gavilar. Yeah his dynasty is still around but it is much less powerful now.

Hoid, the shards, Frost a few others probably.

Maybe. We don't know how long those two shards were on Sel or how long it takes for a perpendicularity to form. In fact we do not even know if post stone age humans were on the planet at the time. That happened in the planet's prehistory. Elantris only formed latter.

I go to the safe house.