Silus - Shard of Flame

Do you know what information is and is not RAFO'd?

That's about how far I get. IT'S SO HARD.

It just feels like nobody quite gets the time they need to explain their thinking on the subject at hand. If there were ever a time to officially jump to 20 minutes, this is it. (5 minutes for each permanent member of the group makes sense to me)

This is probably the most delightfully awesome thing I've seen all day.

I don't buy normal spren being the Focus. There's no interaction between him and the bindspren other than them being there, and that's one constant of a Focus, that it is deliberately affected by the magic user. And, Rayonn, while there might be something to that, I'm inclined to think that Szeth is more likely the Hemalurgist in this scenario than the Allomancer, if that is indeed the sort of relationship we're talking about.

Why wouldn't Chach have Soulcasting? It makes as much sense as anything else, if not moreso. Both Orders with the Transformation Surge have the power of Soulcasting (thus both Jasnah and Shallan, who are most likely of different Orders, are able to do roughly the same thing), it would make more sense that they would take the name directly from the power, rather than a specific Order. But my earlier point is that if it comes from any Order, it's probably that one.

Thanks for your input! Heat in the air isn't concentrated enough for her to absorb, and wouldn't be enough for Eric to use. Yeah, you got me on the villain guy and his device. That's something that I'll fix once I get more into that aspect of the worldbuilding, but for now I was wanting to focus more on other things like the plot.

My inclination is that the Order associated with Chach, whose Body Focus is listed as "the Soul", is the Order that would primarily be known as Soulcasters.

The Focus is not about gaining the powers, it's about using the powers. Speaking the ideals is closer to Snapping than metals, it puts you in greater contact with your power, but isn't how you use it. Aons are the Focus of AonDor because they let you apply your power, whereas what lets you access the power is being taken by the Shaod. The ideals can be better compared to the Shaod than Aons. I'm not convinced that Shallan is associated with Shalash, or that the attributes listed in the table are of that much significance. Check the Orders topic for my opinions on that. EDIT: My opinion is that the Focuses for Surgebinding are the Body Focuses listed in that table, in case you wanted an alternative.

Blade, much more precise, but I'll never say no to a good golf club or spiked tetherball. League of Legends or DOTA2?

However, if you consider that they're just talking about WoK here, it could still be partially accurate, since the two systems that get the most screentime in this book are Windrunning and Soulcasting. These could be considered to meet his description.

I don't consider the personality section completely reliable, considering that human personalities tend to be a little more complex than boiling them down to a pair of attributes. If that doesn't convince you I'll refer you back to the "imperfect gathering" quote from my last post. I'm more inclined to switch Creative/Honest with Chach (which would be Shallan's primary order, if you maintain the connection between Jasnah and Nan, considering that it shares a surge with Windrunning, Jasnah's frequent use of Smokestone, and the viable personality connection between her and Learned/Giving) and associate the symbolheads more with the surge between Chach and Vev rather than a particular Order. My reasoning is Elhokar being able to see them (in a mirror no less, establishing that not-quite-seeing relationship that Shallan also has with them, giving him that same connection with Vev), and his connection to the personality traits of Just/Confident (which I consider most viable because Peter specifically pointed them out as being in the wrong place in the Ars Arcanum). The switching of personality traits between Shash and Chach isn't completely necessary, as the case can be made for Brave/Obedient also applying to Shallan. Really, I consider the sight aspect of the symbolheads more reliable than the truth one, considering we don't know what they will require from Elhokar.

The connections we have between Jasnah and Palah and Shallan and Shalash are tenuous at best, relying on a table that is described as flawed even by the in-world writer: (Emphasis mine)Also, our biggest association between Shallan and Shalash is that the glass became blood when she went to Shadesmar, when we know that Soulcasters can transform objects into any of the essences. However, this connection can be reversed, the case can be made for her to lean more toward Vev due to her unconscious Soulcasting converting an object made of glass. Also, her Memories appear to be oriented around her eyes, thus linking her to that Body Focus, also associated with Vev. The biggest criticism that I can think of is the personality traits, and their relation to the symbolheads, who ask for truths. However, this can be explained as a flaw in the table, not unprecedented as Peter has already made one correction to this part of the table, either in-world or out. This would also mean that the Body Focus that Shallan and Jasnah have in common is the Soul, which makes sense since the magic they have in common is Soulcasting. If you believe, as I do, that the Focus for Surgebinding is the Body Focuses (not a hard leap in logic, there), it reaffirms this position, since it would mean that the Focuses associated with Windrunning are Inhalation and Exhalation. Considering all the breathing described in the text during Kaladin and Szeth's fight scenes, that's not much of a stretch. But it would mean that the two that Jasnah and Kaladin have in common (atmospheric pressure) relies on Exhalation. If you look at the text where Jasnah using her Stormlightning power it reads like this: (Way of Kings Hardcover, p534, emphasis mine)It would seem that the Focus used here would be Inhalation, rather than Exhalation, but it must be remembered that in order to exhale, you have to inhale first. The binding between Orders here is tight given the right assumptions, and with how little direct evidence we have, assumptions are the only way to draw conclusions.

My theory (or the one I agree with) concerning how Szeth gets his powers is that it has something to do with the Oathstone. And I really like the idea that Szeth will somehow lose his clearly off Windrunning powers and become a full Radiant of another Order. The big thing about Jasnah's lightning ability that calls it out to me as not being Soulcasting is that it's described as a Stormlight lightning bolt, and I'm pretty sure that Stormlight is not one of the Soulcasting Essences. In relation to Jasnah's lightning power, and the discussing in the Roshar Focuses topic, I was looking up lightning on Wikipedia. One thing I found interesting is that one of the phenomena related to lightning is atmospheric pressure. This is one of the Windrunning surges, and if you concur with the idea that Radiant Orders overlap their surges (confirmed by Brandon in this quote from the 17th Shard interview: it makes a lot of sense. Jasnah's Order would be one of the ones that shares with the Windrunners, Atmospheric Pressure being the surge they have in common, and Shallan's Order would be on the other side of Jasnah's, sharing the Transformation surge (aka Soulcasting) with Shallan's Memories being the other surge for her Order.

mycoltbug, you should be commended for your ability to keep us up to date on all these contests going on.

That's the part I was referring to.

Knock knock, easier to subvert. Steel or Pewter?

On the "friends before, friends behind" quote, remember that in the Tower battle, he had Bridge Four behind him, and Dalinar's army in front of him. Thus it's likely that the quote doesn't refer to the Parshendi, since it seems to be speaking from Kaladin's point of view in that moment.

It's the most solid theory I've heard on the subject, but I've got a couple of issues with it. Less to do with Helaran being a Ghostblood (almost certain in my books), and more to do with the assassination aspect of it. 1. What is it that makes Amaram important enough to the Ghostbloods for them to risk two Shards to take him out? (Resolved easily enough, less that it prevents the theory and more that I just need more detail.) 2. Why would Helaran engage with the soldiers at all? Why not either avoid the battle altogether or just ignore them and dash through? The battle was more in pockets of soldiers than a mass of people, why not just go between groups and head straight for the encampment? (Again, not much of a criticism of the theory itself, but it does somewhat throw into doubt the aims of this mission. Maybe the Ghostbloods have some way to see into the future, maybe through use of Cultivation's magic, and know how big a role Kaladin will play and wanted him out of the picture? Just, again, need more detail.)

Mario. (sorry, Luigi) Black Knight or Killer Rabbit?

We're not sure exactly. There's evidence to both as far as I can tell, but I lean more toward him getting it from the Well.

I get the feeling that the Heralds' suffering is a good example of Odium exercising its intent. Heck, killing you might not even be on it's agenda. Endless suffering will probably be preferable to death to him.