Furamirionind

Once Archer publishes the data from the first ever sub-annual census, we should have a decent idea which guilds will be around I think.

Welcome Chasmfiend#1! What books have you read so far (and which are you working on at the moment)? Which has been your favorite so far? If you could have 1 of Brandon's magic systems for yourself, which would it be? Be careful when browsing the shard, people try to keep spoilers in spoiler boxes and out of spoiler free zones... but it doesn't always happen. And be careful when accepting cookies... they generally contain spikes. (Mistborn referance)

Do you mean... like... They get to argue for or against a law directly in court, but can't actually vote? I am not sure exactly how this would work in practice, but to me, this sounds good to try at the very least.

I was thinking that originally, but I wasn't sure how we could make something like that official... So I just took the quick and dirty path. You have an idea on how this should be done?

HH confirmed not elim (is either Rand and was protected, or good player targeted by the creature) Fielder admits to being an elim, and implies that they are not Randuir (can't technically confirm though) I actually find the Fielder comment a bit strange... There is nothing to stop them from apologizing after the game is over, they also don't have to admit being a second player in the doc, as there was no way to confirm... And as we knew that there was an elim in there, it could have been Randuir... This opens up some suspicions that I haven't had in a couple turns... The fact that 2 people were attacked, AND a creature was summoned means that the elims have at least 1 Agent of Blight. That means probably 4 elims total, 3 more to go. @randuir you said you could figure out who was in your doc by analyzing their speech patterns? I look forward to hearing your conclusion. I have my own suspicions, but I need some more time to think on them... (especially with less info than what you have) I also want to hear some analysis from @Droughtbringer. DroughtBringer I forgot when I made that post that I was rushed in making the linked post. So I will repost why I am suspicious of Drought in a little bit.

I really like that idea, and think it is really cool, though it may get a bit complicated...

Potentially we could replace the public seat with the newcago rep? @Ookla the Palindrome

are there any other RPs that may have an ambassador to the allyverse?

What is the newcago court? is it a guild? In this system, you could even be chosen as a guild's representative even if you haven't submitted it as the one you want to be counted for... Or is this a title or something of sorts?

@randuir if you are on, can you tell us what the reference was about? I have cleared people who did so little as reference a Gleeman before now, and you learn what they are in like... the first chapter or something... So if they have started reading WoT in anyway, we need to expand the list of who could be in that doc. From yesterday, I assumed that the people who could be in that doc based purely around knowledge of WoT are as follows: Steeldancer, CadCom, Drought, Bard, Fura, and BR. This list can now be changed to: Steeldancer, CadCom, Drought. I think it relatively safe to assume one of these three are an elim. CadCom: Placed the second vote on BR. Granted, it was after I had already said I was for lynching her, but I was threatening to lynch 3 different players... so it may have been a bit early for elim!CadCom to commit to that bus. The interesting thing is that CadCom was implying N3 that if it was still D3, he would probably vote to lynch BR. This makes me lean village on them. Steeldancer: Has actually been a lot more active than I remember... With an average posts/turn of 1.75. Granted, none of these posts were more than a couple sentences long. Went after Bard D2, D3 went after Rath claiming that Rath turned him towards Bard in the first place... However, if anyone turned Steel on Bard, it was MrDoctor. Took a while for Steel to get off of bard, but this could very well be due to not having time to read the thread... idk. Drought: Activity has also been much higher than I remember, with 1.25 posts/turn. Questions Bard's tunnel on BR. Not in a particularly suspicious manor, but worth noting. In their defense, they did solidify the lynch on BR, however, it was relatively late in the cycle (3 hours before rollover), and Randuir and myself were pushing the lynch. I also implied that if BR flips elim, Rath also might. This could have been hoping I would tunnel on village!Rath D5. EDIT: CORRECTION: Drought didn't solidify the lynch. The order of people voting to lynch BR was: Randiur, CadCom, Fura, Karn, Drought

Heh, spying then becomes much more "real". You are helping the target to convince them of your dedication, for the purpose of carrying secrets back to the other guild. This perspective makes transparency, even less transparent to an extent... which is amazing!

Wasnt the whole point of running this through a mod to keep this secret? Lol. Not that it wont be talked about... it will... but in general, I assume you will have like 7 people say they are selecting a certain guild, but only 4 will actually select the guild they claimed... or something like that...

Lol, hopefully no one will put it as their "primary" then. : P Really though, if I sent Archer a PM saying i wish to be counted in the "Bob the Builder Consortium"... would that guild then exist, whether or not it was created? Lol.

Well, Ark got offline 30 minutes ago, right before you asked him to take the poll down. So unless a mod does it (which I assume they will want Ark to) we will probably have to wait a bit. Just to make sure ark sees this though: @Ark1002, I think this joke has long outlived it's lifespan.

Hmm, I went back and reread D2, and yeah... BR voting on Rath would have been risky if they were both elims. On the other hand, it was right in the middle of the Snipexe Revolt... On yet the other hand though, it was during a lull in the conversation... I will for now retract my accusation on Rath, though I am still suspicious. This is the post where Randuir announces to the thread that they are in the Fielders doc. Devotary is already dead, and he says: "I'm not too worried about sharing this as I suspect at least one person in the doc is evil, and I haven't really been hiding my identity in the doc." again as of the moment, Devotary was dead, so if there were only 3 people in the doc total, the other would have been Ark. Saying that at least 1 of the players in the doc would be implying that there are 2 (at least) players other than youself in the doc. If there were only 2 including yourself, you probably would have said, "I suspect that someone in the doc is evil". Granted this all could have been an elaborate ploy to make us not know how many people are in the doc, but I just don't think that particularly likely. Regardless, we know that there is 1 elim in the fielder doc. Due to them not voting to attack the creature. (I will stay adamant there will not be more than 1 though due to role analysis, and giving too much power to the elims...). This will either be Randuir or a mystery person. Randuir claimed to be able to figure out who this mystery person is, so I would encourage them to do so ASATAA (as soon as they are able... slightly slower version of ASAP) The question to me in thread is 1 of 2 things: 1. They are telling the truth about a second person in doc, and were testing me. (Would be Village) 2. They were trying to get people to mislynch me. I am fairly confident about it being the first though, because when Rath voted on me, he didnt switch to try to create a bandwagon, he waited until I posted my response, and just "casually" asked some questions. Semi-ninja from Draught. (Semi because it looks like it was accidentally posted early. : ) )

I don't think players should change what guild they count for on a moments notice, and that censuses should happen relatively often But that makes it more complicated... ultamately, this I think would be a question for the mods and what they think is best, as this system does put quite a bit of strain on them. I think the best system would probably be just to have people switch whenever they want. I also am not qualified to estimate when elections should be. Definitely after enough time that the gov can do stuff, but little enough time that it gives new players the option to get a role if they wish. When putting in the unequal votes, I was trying to factor for what I assumed would be a complaint of the system. That guilds with more people have their votes worth less than guilds with few people (vote / number_of_people_in_guild). The biggest issues of this happening will be removed if we don't allow they great guilds to vote though... So at least for starters, I think what you propose will be good. (Though I will be quick to re-propose this system if there are issues with this one that mirror my concerns. I also like how Voidus' new player thread talks a LOT about cookies... even when they are talking about something completely differant, like guilds, they still managed to work cookies in there. : )

Yeah, that is definitely a potential issue. I tried to offset that by only giving major guilds 1 vote compared to the minor guilds 2-4... but it is still a lot. Potentially if we change it from +2 per person to +1 per person? That should close the gap a bit more... I didnt want to have every single guilds vote be the same as everyone elses... but I wasnt 100% sure how to do that. Any ideas? (Or we could just have them all be the same)

The people who have commented here seem to be pretty happy with that organization of government. Though I posted an election system earlier, I didn't like it. This one I think is a big improvement. HOWEVER, I do not personally tend to post fully flushed out ideas. When I do that, I get attached to them and usually want them to happen too much. Instead what I like to do is post mostly flushed out ideas. That way people can provide criticisms. Just to be clear, I am using the word "census" to describe the act of figuring out who wants to be counted for each guild. 1. First there has to be an allyverse census, so that we can find out how many people each guild has according the the census. 2. Guild picks one of the people in their guild to be the Rep. (The guild must have at least 2 members according to the cesus) 3. If the census dictates this is a great guild, the rep automatically gets a spot in the congress. If this is a minor guild, they have to compete between however many spots are left. 4. Each guild gets votes to spend on trying to elect various people/guilds to office. The number of votes a minor guild gets is as follows: (number_open_gov_spots - 1). The number of votes a great guild is as follows: 1. You cannot spend more than 1 vote on any given individual. (eg. A guild cannot spend all three votes on themselves) (any guild with at least 1 member can vote) The stuff in the spoiler is only relevent to the people who tally the votes, or to people who wish to do the math. Afterthoughts: the Public Seat should be counted as an "open gov position" for the sake of determining how many votes the minor guilds have, and that spot should be up for election alongside the minor guilds. While I don't think this system is too complicated, I could 100% understand someone who thinks it is. (Which is why the unnecessary stuff is in the spoiler). I just couldn't think of an easy way to make this simpler off the bat. I am 100% open to any criticisms or thoughts people have on this concept.

*ahem* technically we are building a republic, not a democracy. (Or a constitutional monarchy for that matter. : P)

I can't tell if my life is super lucky or if I am a genius... *reality check*... wait, no, i can tell... my life is just super lucky... that is what it is. Anyway, I don't care, I called it. : P ________ Well, I thought a lot of other people would be defending (like they the past couple turns), so i pulled out of my defence to make sure BR got lynched. Edit edit: who's vote was negated? If it was someone who voted late in the cycle, that will give us info as to who Aginor is.

I mean, I want the Keepers to be a thing... : ) The Palindrome model says that for ever great guild in gov, there is 1 minor one as well. If a minor guild gets great status, then 2 more spots open up for minor guilds. So I think it still encourages them to exist.

I have only heard from Voidus and Mac on the idea so far, but the thought was that the DA wouldn't get a rep in the government. So if members of the DA wish to participate in the gov, they would be asked to be a rep for a differant guild. Dont know how this would work, and we would need to hear from other DA members as well.

I am really fond of what you suggest. In general, I think you keep the important points that [redacted] had, but also simplify it by merging the the entire Congress together. With 11 statements, it looks a bit complicated, but it really isnt. My only issue with it is that all the chancellor does is tie breaks pretty much. But I don't see that as something that would need to be changed now. Instead I would prefer it to be changed in-world, by the first governing body. I really like what you have. well, in the current proposed model, there is no president : P (and also you would already have to be a legislature to run for chancellor/president in this model (which I like)). ...also I want to make it known that I declared myself running for Gov before Ark did... I just posted it in a guild PM... (that Ark is also in... :P) (I am already preparing my campaign in my head...) Ark, you have any ideas or issues you see with Palindromes model?

Ok, I forgot about that. I still don't like Rath's post, I will have to read more closely. It is just a lot be be consistently going back to read. First Rand, I am never certain anyone is speaking the truth, even if I say that I am. For instance, I have many times doubted myself while trusting Karn... And why am I so certain that there is a 4th person in the feilders doc? well, to be honest, it was based on an assumption I made at the beginning of the game with how many players there would be in each doc. 2 fielders had died, and you mentioned a second was in the doc, which assuming you were telling the truth, confirmed the amount of fielders I was guessing (4), so I was probably too eager to assume you were telling the truth there... EDIT: with that assumption, it wouldn't make sense for you to be an elim after accusing a second player in the doc, because they could turn on you. I just think it would have been too risky. But it all comes from the assumption you were telling the truth about 1 more player in the doc...

I really feel off about this post. (no, not because you are acusing me). Actually because of what you say about Randuir, you look like you are actually trying to think through this, but I actually think Randuir is hard cleared. I didn't want to say anything about it at first because I thought an elim might say something about him, but I didn't actually think it would happen... the only way elim!Randuir could take this risk is if either both players in the doc are elims, or if he knew the other person could not access the thread for the remainder of the day. Basically, if this is a lie, the other person in the doc NEEDS to come out and tell us, and I am making the assumption they will. With close to 5 hours left in the day when this was said, though that isn't much time, a lot of people have been swarming around rollover time. So this is a risky statement to make. I 99% think there is only 1 elim in this doc. if there were 2, as it is an anon doc, the elims could just never kill anyone in the doc and always prevent it from ever taking a kill action against a creature. INSTEAD, they killed Devotary and Ark making it so that they could tie the doc and prevent any creature kill actions. They left Randuir alive because people get concerned about Randuir and because I was focusing on him a couple turns ago. Elim!Randuir should not take this chance... unless there are 5 elims or something crazy like that, then it doesn't too much, but I think 4 max at this point. (possibly 3) I admit to being a little confused by Randuir not trying to lynch me after asking about me reading the book, but I still don't know what reference was made. If it was from the beginning of the book, I should have gotten it. I admit I get suspicious when people aren't suspicious of me, but right now, I think there are 100% more suspicious people than me. "(I still think we're likely quite close to LYLO btw...so this is a rather important vote)" - I appreciate you restating what I already said, but I would go as far as to say for all I know, we could BE in LYLO right now. (granted, I don't know exactly what that means...But I think I have the general idea...) One last thing, I don't understand what your quote from BR is supposed to do... I would appreciate an explanation. However if I was to guess, I would say you are a panicking elim because you only have 3 elims, not 4 like I have been thinking most of this game, and we are targeting one of you with a decent lynch chance. It would seem to me that you want me to be an elim, because that speaks well for BR, as she spoke up against the lynch to protect me. @Rathmaskal any thoughts? (I want to lynch Rath now as I think if he flips elim, that will tell us BR's alignment, however, and this part is a stab in the dark, I think BR is Balthamel. If she was Aginor, he wouldn't be so agitated as she would have Hardy then. Assuming the third Elim is then Padan Fain, that means Rath will now hove to choose if he wants to kill, or create a creature... Which is not the ideal choice. (as Padan Fain can't take those actions) edit: I may not be around until after rollover as well... I will try to be, but it is my Grandmother's birthday, so... another edit: And of course, Droughtbringer is Padan Fain because... Yeah... Good enough. I believe it. : P that was a joke, though it is possible.