Ixthos

@Ookla the Ingeniator fair enough, though don't mean Endowment's mandate is specifically to watch for any infraction, only that she isn't into micromanaging and rather she sets up systems which she only interferes with if someone looks like they might step out of the circle, or perhaps not if they look like they will but only if they do. She cares about the system as a whole, rather than the individual parts. That does make sense, and is a rather interesting and compelling argument :-) I do think Honour is more than that though, but I do agree that is a large part of what Honour is, just not the most essential part. Lightweavers, for example, tie into the same idea as Klingon Lawyers - you can be honourable and a warrior even when your battlefield isn't one of bat'leths and phasers - Lightweavers are how an artist can be honourable, by making what isn't true into what is true, turning how things should be and could be into reality and being true to oneself, though a large part of that depends on how you see honour and how it can be expressed. Ahhh, I see. Makes sense :-) My own understanding of Ambition is that it is about fettering others to liberate and improve oneself - why I think Honour (fetter oneself to improve oneself), Ambition, Autonomy (liberate oneself and others), and one of the hypthetical shards for Crafting or Altruism (fetter oneself to help others / improve others) form a block - so Ambition could have maybe added restrictions to Odium or worked to improve itself and make itself stronger, making it the main threat to Odium. After all, a shard which has no problems making itself stronger while hindering those who are a threat to it definitely would make sense as a major threat. @Bigmikey357 Indeed! I think you and I are thinking the same regarding this, at least in part.

@Ookla the Ingeniator and @StanLemon My main point isn't that Endowment wants to micromanage things - and this is all theory - but rather that, unlike Cultivation, her interest isn't in things growing, but rather in them "playing nicely" with the toys they have been given - someone sitting on the sidelines and making sure things don't go outside of what she deems acceptable behaviour. Where those limits are isn't clear, and might allow for far more violence than what a human might think is acceptable, but I think she is mainly about people using what they have been given, rather than in them growing beyond those bounds - Cultivation wants you to grow and move beyond her, while Endowment wants you to stick to the rules - she has drawn a large circle, and so long as you stay inside that circle everything is fine. Cultivation wants you to step beyond that circle and keep running. Cultivation wants to cultivate you - grow beyond what you are. Endowment wants you to be endowed - what you have is what you are given. No more and no less. I also think Honour is not just connections - if it were, why does the power of the Knights come from making and keeping promises? How do those count for connections, except as connections to ideals? Honours power - and the focus of the spren of Honour - are sticking to a code. I do like your ideas on how connection could work though, as well as how Cultivation would tie to the others! I'm curious what you mean by Ambition smothering Rayse though? @Tglassy I don't want to derail my thread, but if you are interested in discussing the idea of Endowment not being part of that block - Order, any method approach to What you should do - please have a look at my thread on that here I give reasoning for Endowment being in that block in one of the posts as well. @Ookla the Prolific But - as Windrunners show - Gravity can indeed be manipulated, and the whole point of the vessels is to regulate the power. As mentioned in Hero of Ages, the power knows its tendency to just act is dangerous, and so needs a mind to govern it. The mind can then choose - though it becomes difficult - to act or not act, just as Vin could choose to use Preservation to destroy Ruin in order to Preserve, something the power can't do by itself. (my response to Bliev does contain a seeming contradiction on this, but I view it as rather an example of the rules being stretched while still followed, the forces still obeying their rules but the exact manner adjusted, so gravity still pulls but it never ends up pushing). @Elegy That doesn't deconfirm the theory, as the main point is that each Shard has an idea of how the world should be, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a plan for everything, only their own small part of it - Endowment, as I said above - isn't about micromanaging, but rather that a general set of states is maintained. I mainly just compare her as the mirror to Culitvation - Culitvation has a long term view and wants things to expand, while Endowment is more about making sure everything under her control sticks more or less to her ideal - what she gives is what they have, but anyone she hasn't given anything to she doesn't care about, unless it comes into her sphere. @Bliev I'm not referring to the non interference pact - which wasn't an agreement - but rather to the other statements that Shards can't break a promise if they have made a promise. I can't find the quote I'm thinking of, but here is something from Oathbringer (and yes, Ookla the Prolific, I am aware the underlined parts seem contradictory to what was said earlier, but as I noted, its not them breaking their rules, but rather the rules being stretched while still followed.) I believe there are others, but I will need to check. @Bigmikey357 thanks :-) I don't mean the affect is strong, but rather that this is the means by which they touch one another and so the means by which they can attack or interfere - and so for example the reason for Odium's advantage in attacking other shards is due to how his shard relates to theirs, and why Ambition was the biggest threat to Odium. (Side note - I think the possible Ingenuity shard - if there is one - is the one I call Crafting, Forging, Altruism, etc. in the above link, which is the mirror to Ambition and the block with Honour, Ambition, and Autonomy.) @Thanatos I think it is more that each shard still touches the others in some way so that the shattering isn't a complete shattering, bur rather something that was a single whole now having deep cracks that allow each piece to move, but remain interlocked with each other. I think the shards are the Spiritual realm, or the core of it, and so can't ever fully be separated.

Adding a weakness is usually not a problem for some systems, even if the weakness is just a cultures attitude, or being hunted by people who think the abilities are evil, etc. I like the tiered abilities, that different people can do different things and need one another to realise their full abilities - shaping wood is meaningless without wood to shape, hardening is meaningless without wood in the right shape, husbanding is meaningless if no-one makes use of the wood, etc. Though I am a bit confused as to how the carbon content relates to steel - is the power to temper the ability to turn carbon into iron? If you are interested in possible weaknesses, one example is the cultural attitude I mentioned above - maybe one nation has members who hate those who have these abilities, possibly due to historical events that give them some sympathetic motives but deplorable responses, or maybe only one nation has these abilities and so other nations fear them or are trying to kidnap members to gain the abilities for their own use. Or using the ability requires a long time to fully prepare and so one needs to spend days getting ready before one can make something for carvers or tempers. Another possibility is that using the ability causes pain or makes one more easily fall ill ([Edit] or if the tree is diseases the person working it might get sick from that, and the disease isn't easy to detect). This does look like an interesting system. What is the nature of the culture and how has it affected them?

I rather like this system - I like elemental systems with variations on the typical approach, like with Stormlight Archive which has Surgebinding as a form of elemental system with some very clever twists. I would add the caviate that the compound elements would probably make more sense to just call compounds though, as it simplifies describing them. What is the origin of this system in the story? If there are multiple cultures does every culture have their own take on the system, or is there a unified attitude and belief towards it? Also, as you listed dragons, etc. as compound elements, does that mean that infusing the dragon element into something will make it into a dragon or just give it draconic traits?

I would have agreed with you a week ago, but then I read this, which is part of the reason I made this topic: Which implies that Nightblood actually is a danger to the shards' holders, though not to the shard itself - a threat to the vessel who is endowed with the shard. Otherwise, do you agree that the shards are still in a sense touching one another, that Honour's nature preventing shards from breaking their promises - if that is the reason they can't do so - is also reflected in the other shards mutual interactions, and so Endowment would have some power over the other shards interfaces with the vessels, and possibly also explain Odium's effectiveness attacking other shards, due to the shard of Odium's relation with them?

I have a theory, but before I get to that theory let me address another theory, and another fact: Fact: Honour's power is that of oaths and keeping to a code, and all shards are bound by their words, with the implication that Honours power binds other shards so that they can't break their oaths Theory: Endowment forms a block with Preservation, Ruin, and Cultivation, being the mirror to Cultivation and a match with Preservation (I have a full theory on this outlining my theory on the remaining shards in another thread), with Endowment representing control via keeping a system in a limited set of states that it can change between - in essence, the system can change but it can't escape Endowment's control, you are free to move but only in the circle Endowment has drawn. Thus Endowment isn't just giving, but also taking - Breaths are added to the system, but Returned, Lifeless, and Nightblood show that the gifts can also be removed from circulation, so as to prevent the system from being disrupted. So Endowment represents the idea of "what you have is what you are given, and what you have been given can be taken from you by the one who gave you those gifts". Now, this theory - the theory for the post - is that Honour's situation isn't unique, and so all shards are bound in part by the power of the others, and so - as the shards represent the most significant form of endowment in the series, that Endowment has the power to affect other shard's power, and that is Nightblood's purpose - a weapon to be used to keep other shards in line. As Honour forces shards to keep their promises, Endowment can directly affect the Vessels of shards, or some related property, which would explain her contempt for Odium as a threat as shown in the letter. If this is the case, what do you think other shards can do to affect others? Thanks!

The big issue comes from the exact nature and definition of free will. Free will does not mean your actions are disconnected from causality, it means your actions are bound and constrained by your nature - your actions are free because your nature is what determines them, not the desires of another person overriding what you want to do - you are free to do what you want, but what you want is based on your nature and your present circumstances. If someone asks why, despite you having many opportunities to do something you don't want to, or do something you think is wrong, you wouldn't say you clearly don't have free will because you aren't using it the way they would, but rather that you are using your free will - using it to do what matters to you. Free will means to be free to do what your nature wants you to do, and based on your present circumstances, not that you will do any random thing that could be done.

And late to responding, sorry. I think that is the most commonly held belief as to what is happening, with progression and illumination tying together to see (illumination) the future (progression) or how things might be, but I would like to posit a different but related idea, and one that has slowly been brewing since I posted this topic: the reason the power is said to be related to voidbinding isn't because seeing the future is from the voidbinding of Illumination, but rather because the excess power Renarin has access to - like Kaladin has access to, allowing him to use pressure to push back the storm - is attempting to allow him to use illumination to see the future, but the corrupted nature of Glys means the power is being contaminated by the void of illumination. To rephrase, Truthwatchers CAN see the future if Honour isn't restricting them (as Nale said that Honour limited the power of the Radiants), and Renarin's powers are geared towards doing that, but he can't distinguish between the surge of illumination and the void of illumination, and so the one is interfering with the other, preventing him from using either properly. Thus the problem is from normal Truthwatcher future sight - which, unless the other Radiant also had a corrupted Truthwatcher spren, is a normal part of their powers, but one they don't know about, much like Kaladin and Syl with using pressure to blow - is being interfered with by voidbinding illumination. What Renarin is doing is a mixture of the two, and as he gains further skill he will be able to seperate the two. Of course it is possible that this is wrong and future sight is entirely a power of Odium, but Truthwatchers have a strong connection to Cultivation, and she also has future sight. This is only stated as a possibility. If the void of illumination is related to the future, then perhaps it somehow ties into shaping the future, rather than seeing it. Or it is the source for future sight of corrupted spren that grant the void of illumination, but that still doesn't explain the Truthwatcher who seemed to have seen the future - and that is very strongly implied to be what that Truthwatcher meant, rather than a statement of a general belief, or else why would he have been ashamed and hidden the reference to knowing something that the culture said was of Odium?

I like the breakdown in description of each type, and how it describes the nature of the power source and the attitude towards access and use. It does seem similar to what I've heard regarding DnD, with Arcane Arts matching Wizards, Sacred Power matching Clerics, Druidism matching ... well, you know, and Occultism matching Warlocks. However that isn't necessarily an issue. There are a few questions that should be asked about the systems though: Can someone access more than one system? If so, is there a limit, or side effects? If not, is there any negative consequences for attempting to do so, or something which prevents one from even attempting it? Does having abilities cause problems for the user? Are the abilities fully locked into the roles you described - can Occultism allow shape shifting like Druidism? How much overlap in abilities are their, so what can each system do that at least one other can't, or can do that another can do more easily, or in a different way, such as the healing abilities you mentioned being difficult for Arcane, and Sacred Power being focused on healing and granting enhancements? How does someone gain access to each system? Are there subtypes, such as for Sacred - does each spirit they gain their abilities from give different powers, or the same powers with a few changes, etc., and do they each require a different attitude on the part of the user? Do they all use the same power? How do they relate historically? Is Occultism seen as related to Sacred Power or Arcane Arts? Is Druidism considered an inferior form of Sacred Power to those who use Sacred Power, and is Sacred Power considered a synthetic layer on top of Druidism to those who use Druidism? Can someone use Sacred Power from the source of Druidism if they think nature is divine, or is there a spirit which is associated with nature that allows those who use it to access a form of Sacred which allows similar things to Druidism? Otherwise this does look interesting :-)

Flawed but fun. They aren't as good as the original trilogy but they are entertaining, and while they missed a few steps, retroactively changed certain other elements, and had a few poor elements, they had several amazing high points, painted a clear picture of the nature of the Jedi order and its flaws - indeed, why its fall was inevitable - and expanded on the details of the nature of the republic and what caused it to fall. They could have made some changes, but I enjoyed them for what they were, and showing a different era of Star Wars than that shown in the original trilogy. They are fun, worthy prequels, and I'm glad they were made. I think some things should have been done in other ways, but they are enjoyable films.

There are two passages in Oathbringer that, taken together, raise an interesting question, and one that has been asked before - when Dalinar said his oaths in Oathbringer, did he take up Honour, or something more? And if so, was that what Odium meant when he said that they had killed him? Or, why did Odium seem to change size relative to Dalinar? The two passages in question Odium's apparent size relative to Dalinar in the chapter - Passion: Odium's apparent size relative to Dalinar in the chapter - Unity Note that the two chapters are named after what Odium called himself, and what Dalinar called himself. Now, there are a few possibilities as to why Dalinar said Odium is small. It could be that, due to Odium being damaged, Dalinar saw Odium as being small when he took up - in part - the power, which may be Honour or something else. It might be that, because Dalinar was holding a shard - sort of holding the shard, or part of a shard, or more than one shard, or something related? - that Odium and Dalinar were about the same size, and so Odium seemed small. It could be that because Odium is projecting he seemed small (though bare in mind all the shards project, they aren't physical, they are the nexus for the power which is not tied to a single location in the cognitive and physical realms, so Dalinar was likely looking directly at the power anyway). It could be that Dalinar took up something more than a single shard. The question is why did Odium look large once, and small later, especially given that what was shown in Passion is like what other shards have shown before, and so likely isn't a trick but an actual representation of what Odium is associated with, scope and nature unbiased. So, what do you think happened?

I am not an expert on these things - I'm only an Engineer, not a Mathematician, though I took my fair number of maths courses, and I am interested in the subject :-P - but to give a simplified overview: A function is basically a relation between two (or more) values - an input (or more than one input), and an output. So, for example, f(x) = x^2 + 3 means that the value of f(x) is equal to x squared and then whatever value you get from that you add 3 to - so x = 1 means f(1) = 4 (that is, (1)^2+3 = 1 + 3 = 4), and x = 4 means f(4) = 19 (as (4)^2 + 3 = 16 + 3 = 19). If you have a graph and set f(x) as the y value (so the vertical line), and x as the horizontal line, then for each value of x there is a value of y, which you can then use to draw a line that connects those points, so if your x and y axes are labelled you would see that if you drew a line straight up from the number 3 on the x axis, if would touch the graph of the function f(x) = x^2 + 3 at the same point a horizontal line from 19 on the y axis would touch it. Different equations produce different graphs, and each of these graphs is a function. A wave is a repeating, periodic pattern - that is, something which cycles. A wave function is a function whose output is a wave, so f(x) = sin(3*x) is a wave function which produces a pattern that repeats every time 3*x = 2*PI*n where n is an integer (and assuming we are using radians, but don't worry about that, its just an alternative to using degrees to describe angles but which is much nicer mathematically). For sin, cos, etc., the PI shows up because you are basically looking at the x and y values when moving around a circle, and 2*PI is the equivalent of going fully around that circle, so getting back to where you started. A set is a group of numbers, or group of any mathematical objects. I know there is more to it than that, but that is the long and the short of it. A set can have various properties (such as having a certain cardinality - a fancy way of saying having a certain number of elements, such as the set of all multiples of five greater than 12 and less than 99 having a cardinality of 17, consisting of {15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95}), be constructed in various ways (such as, for example, talking about the set of all even numbers), and have various relations to other sets, such as both having the same cardinality or one being contained in the other (like the set of all powers of 2 being contained in the set of all integers), etc. (I apologise if I left anything else important about sets out, but that is what I understand of them) Cymatics is about how - when waves interact - they produce regions where there is either greater movement than the individual waves would create, or far less. This happens because a wave can have two points that are both moving in the same direction interact - so adding together to produce a larger change - or two areas which are moving in opposite directions interact - so they subtract and produce a lower value. The shape of the surface vibrating changes the length of the waves that can "fully fit" on the plate, as only waves equal in length or who have a length that can divide into it (that is, have a frequency that is an integer multiple of the fundamental frequency) can fit. A great way to think about this is with a piece of string - tie one end to something so it can't move, and then shake the other end - at a low frequency you can make the middle of the string go up and down while the end you are holding - and the end tied to the object that can't move - is basically stationary. Wave it a little faster and you can get two points on it to go up and down, only now the two ends AND THE MIDDLE are stationary. The two ends and the middle would be - if this were a plate - where sand would pool due to those areas not disturbing the sand, while the sand would be fully cleared away from the two points on the string that are moving. Wave it even faster, and you can change where the stationary and moving points are. Cymatics is basically applying that principle across a two dimensional surface, where the shape of the plate and the frequencies involved determine the pattern. ([Edit] Note that for cymatics and the string example the wave is actually interacting with itself, the wave bouncing off of the sides and coming back at itself again. The patterns are stationary despite the waves moving because the interactions form what is called a standing wave, the patterns of movement fully balanced due to the wave length matching the size of the string or plate.) If that was a little high level then here is a summary: functions are ways of mapping two values to each other so for any given input you have a specific output. A wave is a repeating periodic pattern that repeats over a given period or distance so you will see copies of it if you go far enough along or wait long enough. A wave function is a function that takes an input and produces a wave. A set is a collection of numbers, etc., which have been grouped together. Cyamtics is the result of waves interacting based on the plate shape and frequencies applied to produce regions where there is a lot of movement or very little, and so sand moves from where there is a lot of movement and settles where there is little movement. I would rather like to see more mathematical functions in the series :-) As I said, I'm not an expert but this is an area I am interested in. I do still do remember the non-Mathematician lecturers when they used maths in a more informal and fudged way reminding us not to show the maths department how they were doing it :-P If any Mathematicians would care to correct me on any of my mistakes here, I would appreciate that :-)

The most significant question is how long the delay between when the body dies and when it returns is. As the scene is described: So it implies his body was later found.

Thank you :-) I'll check it out!

Thanks :-)

I would like to read that :-) though I think most peoples' objection to his arc was his sudden change from "this is all about reviving the dominance of my religion" to "my religion betrayed me, and so I joined the side of the being that killed the one I worshipped."

Both :-) first part is that if the Dysian Aimians are from Braize then where to the Siah come from. Second part is the idea the Dysian's are from outside the Cosmere

Could be :-) and that does make sense, though that does then raise the question about the Siah Aimians. My own theory is that - because they are important in later Cosmere stories - they actually are from another star cluster, aliens to the entire region of space. Though that is very much off topic, and in the wrong part of the forum ;-) if they are from Braize and native to the Rosharan system, they would almost certainly have a strong link to Cultivation due to their own cultivation of their hordlings.

That could be it, but if I remember correctly the noted thing about Singers is that their blood looks and smells the same as Chasmfiend blood, and so implying that Singer blood and native life on Roshar all have the same blood. I know many other creatures on Earth have unique types of blood, but I think the three types are to represent three different species from three different worlds. [Edit] Okay, looks like I might be wrong - Chasmfiend blood is violet. Though it still could be that Sleepless also have violet blood, as even though they probably aren't native to the planet they do breed their individual hordlings to match specific traits. Still, this does mean I might have that part wrong.

To answer the question, Rashek was an angry bitter man. He did good things, and he did incredibly evil things. He did what he felt he needed to do to save the world from Ruin, but at the same time he also lashed out at his mentor when he rejected his offer to become a Kandra, and then had him hunted down and murdered. He took dissidents and turned them into monsters. He brutalised his own people to prevent them from becoming a threat. He did everything he did to save the world, and he did everything he did because he felt that he had the right to do it, and that no-one else's opinions mattered. He was vindictive and petty, and believed that the only way the world could be saved was his way. He did all these things because he felt he could keep control over what he made - Hemalurgy allowed him to dominate the minds of his Inquisitors, and Koloss were powerful tools. So long as he remained alive he could control what he made, and as long as he was alive Ruin couldn't break free, as he would take the power at the well again. He was a man who was cruel, but he was a man who also wanted to save the world.

Another thing to note in the prelude is that there were three types of blood on the battlefield. I think they were red, orange, and violet. One clearly human, one clearly Singer, but the other was definitely non-native. And Sleepless are implied to be from beyond Roshar ...

I guess you could say she ... made an arse of herself

Fair enough :-) though I chose Vengeance to fill that grid because Mercy matched the other, with Devotion and Dominion being dynamics in a functioning relationship, and Mercy and Vengeance as dynamics in a damaged one. Yet they are not fully incompatable, and so can connect. Basically I think they match a grid based on the nature of their goals and how they go about them, compared to what and how they act and think. Though on Crafting, or Forging, I think that all the shards abilities touch all three, but Crafting is matching an ideal of giving of yourself, so both crafting and teaching, and so would be both physical and cognitive. Basically in the Chaos, the right way block I think they correspond to warm mentor and teacher roles, or motherly roles, wanting things to grow and move beyond them but taking a structured approach to helping. Ingenuity could definitly work as a "forge diety" like Crafting too, though, and fit that role.

@phoenix2563 Those could work, though they mainly match the Honour idea rather than the grid. Still, those are some good examples. I will repeat my objection to Justice being a shard by itself though, as I think that Justice is Honour and Vengeance, just as Protection is Honour and Preservation. What would you say is the distinction between Scholarship and Ingenuity in your model? One focused on gaining external information, the other focused on expressing that knowledge through application, as scientists and engineers compliment one another?

@Quantus It would get harder if one of them is steaming what they are seeing and hearing, so one is scouting an area and relaying everything they can see to another to lightweave into the image for everyone to see. They probably don't know about radio and lasers right now, but when Era 4 happens I doubt we won't see at least some of that. The Lightweaver sensing the waves, while the spren acts as a decoder or encoder. @Karger That is a possible issue, but the full extent of Lightweaving hasn't been shown, and so maybe a part of the surge lets them do it. Maybe voidbinding would let them do this, but otherwise I think Lightweavers and Truthwatchers can probably sense EM as well, especially if Truthwatcher's powers mainly manifest as sensing.