Ixthos

This is a theory I've had about Lightweaving for a long time, and there is an important point that must be remembered: Cryptics (and maybe Truthwatcher spren) really like patterns, and are good at decoding them. Lightweavers should act as mobile radio transmitters and receivers, the spren encoding and decoding the message.

On the whole Hoid and noodles thing - the real reason he wanted a bond with a Cryptic wasn't for Lightweaving but for Soulcasting! He will attempt to soulcast instant noodles, but it won't work because he isn't practised enough, and so will have to wait until someone else develops it. Sleepless originated from outside the cluster of stars called the Cosmere.

@Halyo_Alex Thanks :-) if you do make a thread on that shard and system please let me know - I would like to read that! I imagine that a shard like that would probably cause the system to have at least a few magic systems due to the nature of differing beliefs about how the world can change :-) I hope you have fun writing that!

@1stBondsmith to add to what @Honorless and @The traveller said, when Sazed took up the shards he also was probably at an even lower level of understanding than Jasnah about the Cosmere as a whole, and just had knowledge of a more local physical and historical facts - taking up a shard, combined with their natural inclinations towards scholarly pursuits, makes me think that they could both teach and learn from one another. The main issue isn't what they know, but how they think, and their thought processes are both very different but their natures are very agreeable - they could debate and discuss very interesting ideas from very different perspectives and do so reasonably and respectfully :-)

I think Sazed, who studied religions and in a sense at one time believed in all of them, and still does if his relgion is any indication, and who is one of the most accomplished scholars in the Cosmere, who became what the setting would call a divinity, would probably have an amazing conversation with Jasnah as a shard, or as I would refer to as Elsecaller-Honour Jasnah. (I think that Honour + at least part of the other shards on Roshar will be taken up by ten people, and one of the best suited for that would be Jasnah, taking up the Elsecaller part of Honour while still being part of the whole - a shard with ten vessels and ten expressions but still only one shard). Jasnah likely would not change from being an atheist if she took up the shard. I know it is an old trope for the atheist diety, but as Brandon made Jasnah to be at least one of his takes on an atheist and as she is an atheist presented with respect by someone who is not an atheist, I doubt she will just change her mind, especially because it can be argued that the shards are not gods, only powerful beings, and as Jasnah already deals with spren, she probably won't be as impressed with shards as those who never encountered spren before would. So Sazed and Jasnah, two of the brightest people in the Cosmere, talking as shards, and debating - not arguing - if they actually are gods or something else, and discussing other things related to how their mandates direct them and push them to act or not act. Who else would enjoy that conversation?

This is the fourth of a planned nine posts outlining the model for the remaining six shards, and it is this post which contains the most speculation, as it covers three of those six. Before we go into that though, I wish to note two things. First is that recently Wisdom was revealed to not be a shard name but to still be a fairly accurate description of a shard that might exist. This actually works well with this theory, as these aren't supposed to be the exact names, but rather the descriptions of the shards. This also supports the theory of Honour being a reference for the others with each Order matching a shard (or maybe more, which I will elaborate on later), with the Wisdomesque shard being combined with Honour to form Wisdom with the Elsecaller Order reference. Either way Wisdom will be used as the main name for this shard in this, but alternatives, like Logic, Foresight, etc. could be used also. Second is that I am working on a revision to the example graphic above with more detail and some corrections based on further thoughts, but this will still take a while. It basically is going to be a summary of all nine posts. However this will take some time to do and I have a lot of high priority things to do. Now, lets look at this last group, the shard which describe "HOW you should THINK". Lets start with Odium. Odium is in the CHAOS section. What does that mean? In typical - and inaccurate - fashion, lets consider the diametrically opposed ideas. That is, the ideas typically considered diametrically opposed: logic, and emotion. So CHAOS in this case is emotion. Note that the bottom of this post will hopefully address an issue with that, but also explain why this breakdown makes sense. Odium is the Chaotic, any method shard. Or in other words, the emotional focused on the immediate future shard. The idea of emotion in the now. How do you feel right now? Are you angry, happy, sad? Then take actions according to those feelings. Strike out now! Or is some patience warranted? Yes ... Yes ... A little patience, a little planning, but let your heart do the thinking. Revenge is a dish best served cold, but maybe room temperature is better. Unless, of course, you stop caring about that because something else is stirring your feelings. (Odium - short term heart thinking) Next up in this section is the Chaos, the right way shard. The shard of Dreams, Goals, Desires, Optimism. The world is AMAZING! The world has so many amazing things in it! And the world can be even more than that! Look to the future, what in the future would make your heart sing? What could you do to make that world brighter, better, more complex and beautiful? Don't think small, short term changes. Think of how you can change the future, and the nature of the future, into a world that will make everyone's heart sing. Dream BIG! AND DON'T LET ANYTHING CHANGE YOUR GOALS! Obstacles can be overcome! Just stick to it! (Dreams - long term heart thinking) Now then, ORDER in this case would be logic. Thinking things through. And there are, as mentioned, two approaches to that. Short term logical thinking is Pragmatism. Or Logic, Realism. Keep your eyes on the ground. Don't look to the future - the present is already complicated enough. Adapt and change, let your goals be guided by what is happening in the moment. (Pragmatism - short term cold logic) Long term logical thinking is Wisdom. Or Logic, Insight, Foresight. The future can be known if you apply enough thought to it, and the future has an ideal state. You should work towards that state, and take the right steps to achieve it. What you feel might seem important, but what you need to focus on is the future, and how to get there even if your heart would rather you do something else. (Wisdom - long term cold logic) In this structure Odium and Dreams think with their hearts - they feel, because feeling is living. I think the Chaos shards are all about passion, the chaos, any method shards especially, but that is hopefully going to be covered in the seventh and eighth posts. Odium and Dreams think logic is important, and will use logic, but they won't let them get in the way of the heart, the thing that makes people people. Wisdom and Pragmatism, on the other hand, are about cold, impersonal logic. Feeling is important, yes, but don't let it be what guides you. Do you want to get things done? Then THINK. Odium and Pragmatism are focused on the now, because the now is what matters, and the immediate, controllable future. Adjust what your end goals are if you need to, but do what the present requires. They look at where they are now, and a little ways ahead, because often times your actions will have results in the immediate future that you need to take into account if you want what you want to happen to happen. The distant future - time on the scale of the universe, not planets which to shards are short lived (for the immediate future to a shard is probably longer than the current amount of time that has elapsed since the shattering) - is fickle and will change, so don't try to fully control it now. It will take care of itself. Dreams and Wisdom, however, think the future is what matters. Set your eyes on goals that will change history and the nature of everything! Your actions in the present must touch the future, or why act at all? And don't let difficulties now dissuade you. There will be complications, but the future, and the state you want it, are what matters. (Now, I can see an objection to Odium being focused on the present, when his power explicitly covers seeing the future to some extent, and Odium himself has a long term plan. My point, however, is that Ruin also allowed seeing the future - and Elend saw very far - but Ruin is mostly focused on decay, and has in theory weaker future sight than Preservation. Ruin has a goal and can think several steps in advance to achieve it, but that goal is still mainly focused on achieving a result in the now. Odium likewise is focused on a goal of destroying the other shards, but that itself is actually an incredably short sighted goal in the present, and his lack of foresight in what his actions have done shows that, while he can see further into the future than Honour - which isn't surprising, as Honour can't change how he will act based on what he knows, so Honour is fundamentally restricted - his goals are still narrow, selfish, and short sighted, its just that to a shard short sighted is still on the range of thousands of years.) As these shards are about how you think they are actually highly compatible with the other shards, and act mainly to determine if they make wise, logical choices, or more emotional ones, as well as if their goals are more short term or long term. Honour and Odium (*Kaladin and Syl and Yixli*) work well as they are the idea of making oaths because you care, and making them rashly and based on the heart. Honour and Wisdom (well, Wisdomesque) make a shard who makes carefully thought out promises. And so Dreams becomes the shard that, with others, directs them to use their powers to build up (or for Ruin, constructively tear down) to make a better, structured, heartfelt feature. And Pragmatism with other shards makes them focus more on the strictest logical structure to their actions, letting the future take care of itself but making sure things are running smoothly in the present. A final note: Emotion and Logic are not incompatible, and it is a mistake to think they are. It is possible to have a wise heart, to feel emotions that your mind supports and agrees with. It is just that often they are in opposition, but that doesn't mean they always are. However, as people often think this way, and the power was very likely split according to human (and other) beliefs, if the people of Yolen thought as I believe they did that chaos is passion, and order is logic, it would make sense that the power would split along those lines.

It goes all Lensmen and it turns out all objects in the cognitive realm are travelling fast than light, so suddenly you have planet sized FTL missiles! ... or maybe not ... :-P When an object enters the cognitive realm, what happens to its bead? If a planet enters, what happens to the objects that are associated with its bead ...

Of course, in Mistborn void is also used, and Odium isn't in sight :-) void can have multiple uses, and even if it is the same void it can still be what is bound, and the equivalent of the surges. I definitely agree emotion is involved, though I think Odium is actually absorbing emotions from his followers to become more powerful. It might be that the emotions are stored up and then used, given by Odium when he wants to empower his minions.

@ScavellTane There might be some of that to it, but I think the confirmation that Renarin's powers are tied to the "voidbinding chart" in some way (and the confirmation that the chart is for voidbinding) makes that a little unlikely. @Quantus Adhesion is pressure ;-) I'm convinced that Windrunners have a form of telekinesis using Adhesion to apply pressure and vacuum to manipulate objects via air currents, but they might have been locked out of fully exploring their powers due to Honour restraining them, as Nale implied. With Honour dead - or dying before the Recreance - that might have allowed some orders greater power before they realised what it was from. I think that stigma might be because - as Honour requires acting a certain way regardless of where that would lead - the Knights are expected to keep their eyes on the present. I think that at least some form of future sight is still a property of the Truthwatchers, especially considering their order is strongly tied to Cultivation, which does imply a mind on the future, and so it is the tension between their bond to Honour's power and Cultivation's power. I'm wondering how invested a shard is in a planet and how invested they are in a system - if Odium invested into Roshar the planet, that would imply he somehow is invested in two planets at the same time but still only has one "face" or nexus of his power to direct it. I think in some way Voidbinding is both Honour and Odium, but I'm wondering if it is more in Braize than Roshar. @Karger Fair enough :-) though that would imply the Truthwatcher in the gem archive's recording likewise was voidbinding, unless both voidbinding and Truthwatcher surges can both be used to see the future. @Calderis I see what you are saying and I wouldn't be surprised if you were right, but I think you and I are going to be disagreeing on the name of things those glyphs represent until it gets confirmed either way ;-) I'm convinced they represent voids, or each represents a level of the void (which might explain why there is no link between them and the "order equivalent" glyphs), with each void or level matching one surge. Even the names are diametrically opposed, with a void being an absence and a surge being an excess presence. Something is definitely wrong with Renarin's use of illumination, but that doesn't necessarily mean he can't access it like a normal surge even if he can't currently do so - that seems to imply that Glys has lost something rather than gained something, though I do agree it is possible. I do find it interesting that many of the main characters seems to have some exception to the usual rules: Lift metabolising food for power, Renarin's powers changed by Glys's corruption, Dalinar bonding the Stormfather who merged with the last remnant of Honour's cognitive shadow, Taln and Ash's broken state and status as Heralds, Kaladin pushing back the storm, Venli being a Singer with her spren - at least currently - in her gemheart. I don't think that Renarin has been locked out of traditional Illumination, but we will have to see.

We know Glys is corrupted, and this is affecting Renarin's abilities. We know that Renarin's version of future sight is somehow related to voidbinding. We also know that in the past another Truthwatcher admitted to having seen the future. We also know that Kaladin did something Syl didn't expect when he - presumably - used Adhesion to push back the storm. So, Kaladin showed that the basic expected powers the spren think the knights should have - and that the knights do have - aren't necessarily what they were in the past (assuming Syl's previous knight just never used that ability), probably due to Honour being splintered and so excess power being available that is unregulated. So Truthwatchers might naturally be able to see the future in some way. However Renarin's version of future sight - which might be the same as the other Truthwatcher's powers - seems to involve voidbinding. Was this because this knight also bonded Glys, and Glys has been corrupted for a long time, or some other reason? In essence, do you think Renarin's version of future sight is entirely based on binding the void of illumination, or is it a combination of the surge and void of illumination?

[Edit] Just realised I didn't answer your question. Sorry about that. Karger below gave a very good quote detailing the basics, but I do want to note that I think the nexuses on Roshar might be to their moons. The real question is how do planets in the same system relate to one another when the different directions to walk in Shadesmar all correspond to different planets. Original:

I might do that :-) the setting has many areas with unique peoples and cultures, so that would make sense as something that happened somewhere. There is a group who - without giving major spoilers - are in a sense the opposite of undead, being a group who died but - unlike the undead - have an excess of life overflowing from them, and are incredibly important. The good, willingly sacrificed themselves for others, undead actually is a rather appealing idea - especially if they did so in the distant past and now are doing it for the descendent of those they love. I think that can work! The place where that contract is is actually one of my favourite areas mainly because it is one of the first cities I worked on way back, and is a major part of the setting. I don't want to go too spoilery right now though :-P It isn't the main location for the main story, but I do have a few novellas ideas for it that I'd like to write God willing, though if God is willing that is in the future. Thanks again for your support and feedback!

It might be that only a small group were willing, and so the power was mainly used on certain animals to make weapons or to help them survive, or that most Truthwatchers didn't feel it was right to do this. It might be that - due to ten being so important on the planet - they acted like a certain thing in Mistborn acted in the ... interesting statistic observed. Mistborn spoilers: Either way I think there are many possible reasons to stop at 10, from lack of those willing to be changed, lack of those willing to do the change, groups dying out so there were more, or just a belief that making 10 would allow each group to be part of something that would be impossible otherwise, each matching an essence or surge.

If Kaladin, due to his medical training, had access to the surge of Progression would he be able to use it more effectively to heal someone than Lift or Renarin can? That is, could he heal worse wounds than they can with less stormlight, or even heal things they can't?

But we do have strange half-human and half-singer groups, as well as humans with odd ways of passing traits to the next generation, as well as, for example, Thaylen eyebrows. I don't think these are hideous and uncontrolled mutations, but rather like how a wolf and a dog are related, or causing changes which make something into another species combining traits from others. I think the changes have to be plausible, like with some other systems, or require combining traits.

Thanks :-D Its going to be really fun seeing the more exotic uses of the surges later :-)

Ahhh, that is an excellent point. For the most part the idea is that being undead is a terrible fate, but there is hope, because - aside from physical constructs, any undead can potentially be revived and returned to life. They are in a very vulnerable state, however, because the buffers that protect ones soul - which even in living people aren't fully effective for some things - are much weaker. One of the most important rules in the setting is that someone's will cannot be controlled. You can push them hard, but so long as they have a soul (and to have a soul means to have one's intellect, emotions, and will, and all remain so long as one remains) you can fight back - though not always successfully. Physical constructs have no soul and so are purely tools, but all the others do, and so all the others can resist control unless there is a "hook" in them - usually one they placed themselves - which makes resisting more difficult, but even then they can fight. Non-physical constructs find fighting very hard because in a sense the soul is actually asleep - it is still there, and so their memories and personality are available for the construct, but the person isn't actually there, and so they can't really fight back because they are like a power source, not the mind. But if they can be reached they can fight. Becoming undead (aside from physical constructs) is usually forced on those who took certain risks, or willingly embraced by sorcerers who don't fully understand the consequences. There are some good people who are undead, and they usually have some more protection on them to prevent them from becoming constructs of either type, but mainly it is more like a sickness that should try to be cured. There are good people who are undead and command undead, but again they themselves find that form of life painful. Several major areas actually have entire quarters and facilities for undead cliental - usually physical sentients - including brothels, as well as brothels staffed by the undead for those who are into that. Some major empires consist of physical and non-physical sentients. Another point is that many undead aren't humans - most aliens in the setting are VERY alien, and so several ALIEN alien undead also are around, so visiting other planets and realities can involve meeting things which stretch the definitions somewhat. One of the major weapons used by main villain are actually very hard to place on this grid though they are usually regarded as physical constructs with a caviate, as the villain likes to break classifications or use them to their own ends. Another hero-turned-antihero-everyone-thinks-is-a-villain-but-has-good-intentions likewise made a class which are difficult to place, usually regarded as physical sentients, but again with a caviate and also most people don't know they are undead. Most of the undead are usually those who willingly embarked on dangerous missions (in fact a major location in the setting has treasure hunters sign a document which ensures that if they die they will either become constructs serving the places they came to explore or be drafted into serving the undead co-rulers of that location), or who experimented on things they shouldn't have, or where very unlucky or had it forced on them in ways normally not possible due to circumstance. Some were just very powerful with certain abilities and when they died refused to let the Harvestwoman collect them, if she was the one who came, and their abilities then formed a new, non-physical body for them. Different areas have different perceptions of what the undead are like, and different relations to the undead - the only consistent element is that the undead who aren't constructs have a difficult "life", and as long as the thread remains, there is a chance they can return to life, but they are also hunted by eldritch monsters which want to use them. I'm always happy to talk, and thanks for the feedback! :-)

Quick rundown on a subtheory to a post I'm hoping to make later - using Illumination and Progression, Truthwatchers can reshape life, and possibly mutate things. One of the possible uses for their powers - besides possibly using Illumination and Progression to see the progression of things - is to use Illumination to plot a course for something to grow, and then using Progression to cause them to grow along that path. One of the Fused - which only have access to a single surge - was able to grow blades, etc, from their bodies, which are not normally part of Singer anatomy in that way, as their carapace is not typically a bladed weapon. But that morphology could in theory develop, and so they made those parts of themselves grow that way, implying that that Fused might have the surge of Progression and used it to grow their blade Lightweavers use Illumination and Transformation to transform people into the ideal they could be (which is also slightly horrifying if they can also make you change into the darkest version of yourself if that is what they see you as, so maybe Shallan's dad was changed by her). So if Illumination and Transformation can transform someone's soul according to what the Lightweaver convinces them they can be, what could Illumination paired with Progression do? Progression allows for seeds to sprout and grow, not only healing things. They are also paired strongly with Cultivation, which is about shaping growth. So Progression as affecting somethings age or living state isn't impossible With this idea, I propose a Truthwatcher can use their abilities to see how something could progress, change how it will progress, and then help it along that line, so long as it isn't too far from what they could be. Lets end this off with a crazy theory then: the Truthwatchers might have been responsible for allowing humans and Singers to interbreed, or changed some Singers into Horneaters, possibly in secret to save them. I'm not saying they did, only that it is a possibility. Either way, I think Truthwatchers can use their powers to shape life.

A valid theory ;-) :-P

I prefer to keep my world building to myself for a variety of reasons, but I would like to know if anyone has any feedback on this, as this is something I only recently refined from a previous version. This is my take on undead. In my setting there are different species and organisations which all have different takes on things, and some know more than others in some areas while knowing less on another topic, as well as on any given topic some know a lot in one area of that topic and less in another. Those who are very knowledgeable however all agree on certain things. One of them is the undead. There are four main classifications which fit into a grid, and each has several sub classifications. Without giving in setting terms, the grid consists of the following: physical - construct physical - sentient non-physical - sentient non-physical - construct (Again, this is not using the in setting terms, though this is an accurate description of the properties of each type) To give a brief explanation of each type: Physical constructs are zombies, skeletons, etc., which are formerly living bodies that some power or technology is controlling. Many don't consider these to be undead because the last thread of life - something the others all have - is missing. These are governed by simple spells and can't adapt to a changing situation, and usually are bound to a single location, which powers them and which they are compelled to protect or perform some function nearby. They can in theory turn someone that dies nearby into more of themselves, but usually that requires very specific conditions, and most beings are immune to that. Either way they would still have to interact with a corpse to do so. There are a few subtypes depending on the nature of the power animating them, which can include fire and lightning flowing through them. Most of those subclassifications are shared with some of the other undead types, but this group has the most diversity. Physical sentients are self aware, and are the same people they were before, only their bodies are not alive. It is a terrible existence but some still cling to it. They have a small sliver of life which some power or technology keeps attached to their bodies, and that same power also animates their bodies, and can "fill in" any missing parts, as their bodies no longer repair themselves, but will continue to function, with more damage resulting in more filling in by that which animates them. Usually, due to the nature of their bodies, they have strange physical powers, and might still have the powers they had in life, though either way their main feature is the ability to control the force that animates them to a certain extent. As mentioned above, they can have subclassifications such as fire and lightning, and so their powers typically involve being able to direct those things and using them in strange ways. If they originally had a power which was related to - again, for example - fire and lightning, they have even greater control of their new powers than others. They all fear having their small thread of life lost while their bodies retain the power animating them, as that would result in their bodies possibly becoming constructs if this was done deliberately by someone who knows how, though it is difficult and many are immune to this. Non-physical sentients are also self aware, and also the same people as before, but they don't have their original bodies. Instead the last small thread is bound in a body made of the power that animates them. They typically don't have the same physical powers as the physical sentients, but either way they can also be powerful, though often bound to an item or object which sustains their abilities much like the physical constructs. Their powers usually are more mental. They worry about being turned into the next type, though some actually want this to happen. Non-physical constructions are technically the same people they were before, but are actually like the grit that forms a pearl, buried deep inside power that still thinks it is them but is now dominated by a drive. Often these are the result of a sorcerer who wishes to live forever and doesn't want to risk becoming a non-physical sentient due to the difficulty in doing so with so little power. Despite being non-physical, their power is enough that they can take physical form, often can shape shift, and are monstrous to behold, with powerful abilities and minds bent by the power they use, their only weakness being they are bound to an object that sustains them. This can be a city. Some are not willingly made this way, but are instead captured non-physical sentient which who were not immune and were transformed and bound, though if the shell can be destroyed the non-physical sentient can in theory either escape or finally die. Often they are driven to become more powerful if formed from a sorcerer who wanted to become this, though the power they absorb usually bends their minds further, and those who were turned into these unwillingly are usually subservient to some sorcerer or other non-physical construct which changed them. That's it - does anyone have any questions? :-P

We'll probably have to wait to see if more is revealed about how the Oathpact interacted with Honour and Cultivation keeping Odium trapped. It might be that the pact also had some impact on Odium, or Odium deliberately withdrew with the Unmade stepping up because it would lead to this, the trapping leading to the damage to the Singers being what Odium wanted. For the Singers loosing their minds when that Unmade was imprisoned - that probably similar to what happened to the spren for the Knights who betrayed their oaths. As Bo-Ado-Mishram was now the hub of their power the Singers who didn't leave to become Listeners probably were deeply drawing from it for power, and so were as linked to it as the spren were to their knights. When that link is broken, it's like a tree root being pulled from the soil.

@Coda To hopefully explain the significance of the first ideal, it basically is this idea: how you do something is more important than what you achieve. You cannot be honourable and think that killing the men who follow a man who saved your life, and then branding him a deserter and slave to get the shardblade he already surrendered is necessary for the worlds survival. You can have noble ideals and goals, but what value are they if to achieve them you betray them? Is it better to live a lie and found a society on a lie, or to stick to your principles and let that society be destroyed? Honour says that if you achieve noble ends through evil means then what you have achieved will itself be evil. The Dustbringers swear to be obedient and brave - so they keep their word to be brave and to be obedient, only the one example of a Dustbringer is using her bravery and obedience in the service of those who are evil. Thus each order keeps to the code even when they are running against one another because one person's honour can be counter to anothers, yet both are prioritising the method over the result. Kaladin will protect those who are weak and cannot protect themselves, and has sworn to do so. To do otherwise - even if it would result in a better world - would be to betray that oath, and betraying an oath is the exact opposite of honour. To be honourable is to adhere to a code even when the results are painful.

@Ripheus23 Fair enough :-) I definitely think this has a lot of possibilities and can be a fun read :-) I look forwards to seeing when it is done, and would enjoy giving a read. Take care!

@Fractalfire That would make sense: perhaps some who felt restricted by being confined to Shinovar, left to start a homestead, and were then attacked by a minority of Singers who were upset about the spren favouring humans and using the homestead as an excuse - though I agree there almost certainly is more to it than just what I presented. This then started the spiral. That could work :-) The hybrids might have emerged from those humans and Singers who didn't want to fight and didn't see the other side as monolithic, and so chose to live together and tried to get out of everyone else's way. Also, Peralandra was a great novel :-) I haven't yet read That Hideous Strength, but the first two books in the Space Trilogy were great, and I actually use one of the ideas from Peralandra - that of spirits being able to take on the properties they need such as intellect but not using them when not needed - in something I'm writing. @Honorless I think Roshar probably has a lot of different groups from all over, especially if it is a major travel point like seems to be indicated, though until more Cognitive maps are shown of other worlds, it will be hard to say. @Debarra The real question is when did they arrive relative to the Desolations? Were they there before the conflict started, or after? Also, it took me a little while to realise why your current pic looks familiar :-P I take it you also like Overly Sarcastic Productions?

This theory is a slight sketch of what I think might have happened to cause the initial desolation. If anyone can spot any issues or areas whcih require correction, please let me know. Humans are refugees on Roshar, with Odium arriving around this time, either from Ashyn or just joining the system after being involved in what happened to Ashyn at a distance. Some, but not all, humans begin to follow Odium Human colony grows in strength, and at least a few members who were from Ashyn gain prominence and have a good relationship with the Singers. It was during this period that Hoid, technically a human, danced with Vatwha when visiting the planet (and side note, but I hope we see that doll he made again, and see it protecting the girl). At this point Singers follow Cultivation and possibly Honour, some humans follow Odium, and other humans - including some or all of those who would become Heralds - either follow Honour or have a respect for that shard Spren notice that human minds are better suited for benefiting them than humans, and so more and more spren favour trying to spend time with humans than Singers, and this results in Singers having a drought in some of their forms. Shinovar might be modified to prevent spren from properly manifesting their as a result Some humans, probably lead by Odium, start an altercation with the Singers, possibly trying to expand beyond the land given to them (this would in a sense be a little like in Peralandra by C.S. Lewis with them wanting to experience that which was forbidden even though it is dangerous and unpleasant, and ultimately costs you what you did have, which was better) This group of humans brutalises many Singers, and while other humans try to help the Singers, and condemn the actions of the Odium-influenced humans, many Singers become angry. Humans use powers from Odium during this time Singers begin attacking humans. Initially mainly the Odium following humans, but eventually civilian humans also. This might also involve attacking humans who haven't harmed any Singers but who are outside of Shinovar, and then moving up to attack humans everywhere Odium approves of all this, and when Honour and Cultivation won't help them against the humans, and might even forbid certain spren from giving forms to Singers which could help them fight, Odium offers power to those Singers. Their beef is mainly with humans, not the person who set them off, so they accept The Heralds appeal to Honour to help them protect the other humans, who are innocent, and Honour provides for them Honourblades The fighting continues as more and more Singers become embittered towards Cultivation and Honour, and hate the humans rightly who have attacked them, and wrongly those who are innocent, and so turn to Odium. Eventually all the Odium influenced humans are dead, but the Singers won't stop The Desolation begins in full, as it is now humans against Singers, with Honour and perhaps Cultivation aiding the humans, and spren now copy what Honour did and provide surgebinding to the humans, and now almost all Singers are against humans and almost all humans are against Singers, but even those who aren't against the other are caught in the crossfire Based on this, I also wonder if the Aimians were likewise refugees, Roshar being a place for aliens of all types to flock to. In this sense then they would probably have been dragged into the fight as well, sympathising with both groups. The Singers because they likewise took them in (and the west of Roshar probably is where they stick all the peoples non-native due to the reduced strength of the Highstorms as well as them not needing Stormlight for their ecologies), and humans because like them they are refugees. Thus Aimian might be Rosharan for alien, explaining why they are both so different from each other.