Meg

Please don't feel offended but I can't help myself to smile broadly. I intentionally picked only this few words for my quote and again on purpose I didn't add any thoughts or theories about the "why". Actually I'm curious about the idea behind the safe hand too and enjoyed your informations. Not that I have no thoughts :-). So I think that the pristine intention at first was to 'safe the left hand' (as to protect (protect from what?)) and the development of larger sleeves respectively wearing a glove came later (and was a development throughout the different paths from noble or peasant women). Maybe it has to do something with 'working' as for a noble woman don't have/had to do some hard labor (working on a field with that sleeve would be unpractical for example). And, too, I think the Vorin leaders only picked this idea and pushed it (as for we see that female ardents don't have to 'safe' their left hand). Oh yes, there's a lot of ideas rumbling around in my brain.

I know there is an older thread (safe hands), but I didn't do thread-necromancy this time. This theory isn't about the meaning of the safe hand but where (at least partly) it comes from. I found a quote from Brandon about it: (source; emphasizes are mine) Then I ran over Dandos the Oilsworn (on the wiki) and that made me look up the scene in TWoK. Kabsal there describes Dandos Heraldin (what a name!) as "a true master of pencils" but didn't see how Shallan could have had him as master since is was dead for tree hundred years. Shallan told him, that "her father had a book of his instruction." (Side-note: Does this mean he wrote a book? Than writing had not been bad for men 300 years ago?) So if the artist referred in the above quote is an in-world artist, I think it is Dandos the Oilsworn. Sadly there is nothing more to find about Dandos. If Brandon refers to an artist in real life, then maybe I made a fool of myself :-).

This refers to the PoV-characters, doesn't it? "Another unnamed Herald?" Does this mean, that the other nine are Heralds? Edit: I found the exact quote that Windrunner refers to (here). My question is obsolete then; sorry for once more confusing.

I have no evidence but my gut still says that it's not confirmed that Nohadon founded the Knights Radiant. As Ninja writes it has been his goal to get the Surgebinder on a path more honorable (than fighting or provoking needless wars). But whether he himself finished this goal we don't know, though I'm fairly sure he and his book had been the basis for the Ideals and therefore for the development of the Knights Radiant and their Orders. As about the spren: Geranid found a way to fix a spren in place. But, is this a "bond"? When spren were fixed this way how should/could they be around, and how could a spren process then (like we saw with Syl)? Could a fixed spren be altered in a way that it behaves in another way then before? How would this work? And that, secondly, would need a second step of re-release the spren. Therefor I think it will (would) be very interesting to see Geranid and Axies meet one another.

Szeth might have other experiences because he -- what is stated somewhere -- is not a 'Radiant-to-be'. Wherever his abilities come from it's another way of gaining access to Stormlight than Kaladin's. He's infusing Stormlight like Kaladin does too. But why he has this ability seems to be based on other premises. And Szeth didn't only mention that but it's also said .So I personally don't think his comment is "wrong". He only has another way of looking at things, and, thus, he is not the right person to be compared with Dalinar or Kaladin.

Don't confuse me -- Alethkar is a land on Roshar, so what's the point? I don't understand.

No! I don't use ctrl+alt+del!

That's exact what happens to me. It's not always two hours but nearly each time I find something that I've got to think about it. I think, yes, it's kind of a obsession :-).

At first I have to admit, that don't understand some of the postings here (not the one I quote below). So there could be a gasp in my thoughts because of this. Kaladin is not a lighteyes but does this mean that nobody of his ancestors had been one? At least he has black hair what points to a longer row of Alethi ancestors. This I only add though I see that bloodlines seem not to be really important on Roshar.

I cannot move :-). But I can give my impression for Guy Gavriel Kay though I did only read "The Fionavar Tapestry", "The Lions of Alrassan" and "The Last Light of the Sun". So I'm not unbiased because I liked all of these books. The Fionavar Tapestry: I like books where the people travel between the "real world" and an imaginary world. And, too, I liked finding elements that are (more or less) generally known. The Lions of Alrassan: If I remember right it's (kind of) based on the history of the Iberian Peninsula, but it's a longer time that I read it, so don't pin me down on this. It's kind of more "serious" than The Fionavar Tapestry, but good to read and very interesting. The Last Light of the Sun: Here I don't remember whether it's based on history but it's good to read too, and very interesting. The Lions ... as well as the latter is kind of "bloody". I'm sorry not to have more than this few sentences but it's really a long time since I read them and, too, I don't remember enough to give a summary and much less if I should to do so in English. There are more books from GGK, I hope somebody can tell you about them. Based on the books I've read I think they are not comparable to BS's books. Especially the Fionavar Tapestry is quite another matter. So if you love BS's books I think perhaps you should try "The Lions of Alrassan" or "The Last Light of the Sun". If you ask me: give GGK a try :-).

Hm, when I read this part I understood that loosing of light more as a consequence of abondoning the Shard-Sets by the Knights Radiant. Because their intention was to leave their duty and so the Sets stayed but without the right persons to wear them they are minor to the combination KR/Sets. I read your posting more the other way around: Honor Splintered and then the KR left their duty. But would not the Sets have lost their "radiance" then before the KR put them off?

I think you've misread this. Kalak didn't address the Almighty but rather Jezrien with his thought ("You" == Jezrien).

Ha! Now I have an excuse for going (slightly) off topic: After reading Voidus' thread and remembering how Kaladin (actually: Syl) found out, how Kaladin (and Szeth too) uses the Stormlight I think that the "item Soulcaster" is just the battery that holds the energy (Stormlight) which is used for (Surgebinding and) Soulcasting. Just like spheres but bigger, capable of holding more Stormlight than just that "little" spheres. So I think a Soulcaster (the person) could also have a big pouch full with spheres instead of a "Soulcaster" (item). And I think, the Soulcaster (item) is not needed to be shown to others while soulcasting -- it's more of a show for making soulcasting more mysterious. And sure it would be easier to have one item instead of a lot of spheres. And -- my brain rumbles around -- why is soulcasting known 'nowadays' (it seems that soulcasting Ardents are normal) but not the other abilities of the KR? Did I miss something here?

Interesting thread, Voidus, I enjoyed reading even without cookies. :-) So, okay, there is no classical bloodline-heritage. :-) But I still cling on my idea of deliverances. I don't think it is that important whether (or better: how much of) the Knights Radiant passed on their knowledge. Some did, I'm sure. And there might have been others around them who kept their knowledge too. Just like 'The Way of Kings' survived. There are the Envisagers (my sweeties): holding up the remembrance for, I think, a good intention. There are the Ghostbloods who, I think, know about Surgebinding but don't seem to be on the "good side" (as far as I understood about them until know). There may be other groups, families or tribes that know about the Knights Radiant's lore and kept this knowledge (perhaps more or less (un)wittingly). But I personally think that somebody without any linkage to this lore will be the exception rather than the 'rule' to become a 'Radiant-to-be' (what, maybe, is kind of contrary to the premise that actions bring magic on Roshar). That would explain the increased occurrence of 'Radiants-to-be' in the Kholin-family (if only because they are linked to 'The Way of Kings').

It may or may not be that the bloodlines are unimportant. But I still think a kind of inheritance (deliverance) was left. We don't know much about the Envisagers but we know that they held up the memories of the Knights Radiant. There may be others doing this too. Teft's mother had read 'The Way of Kings' and she taught Teft about the KR. Shallan's father apparently had the book too and she had read it ("I have read through ..., and -- of course -- Nohadon." TWoK Chapter 5). This book also is a kind of inheritance and it seems that it is not that rare than one (Dalinar) might think. So, please, don't pin me down on the bloodlines :)/>. (And another "spark" in my mind: May Lirin be an Envisager too or descended from one or was taught by one?)

Interesting thoughts about the chapter-title. I always thought it refers to the chapter, as Kaladin states there: "Honor died eight months ago." (That was when Amaram killed the survivors of Kaladin's team and sent him to slavery.)

I can't find, where this comes from. TWoK I-6(my emphasizes) Hmm, no. Makkek did never force Szeth to behave like the "assassin in white". I'm nearly sure, that Makkek didn't ever think of the possibility whose master he was. So your conclusion ("... Szeths last master started having him kill people, word of a killer in white got back to taravangian") doesn't work. But, yes, there is a passage that might be interpreted like you did: TWoK Chapter 71Though this may or may not mean that Taravangian had been the orderer of Gavilar's assassination. However I understand this in retrospect to the scene from I-6. Taravangian will surely know about the "assassin in white", he's a king and has to stay up to date and he has to have his informants and informations about what's going on on Roshar. Not knowing the second parshendi reading (but being quite sure that it does not clarify this question), I still think the immediate orderer of the assassination had been the Parshendi. What caused them to do so is another question, also whether Taravangian had been involved in one way or another (however he ordered Dalinar's death "quickly, before he can unite the Alethi highprinces"). But then again: Why would this person in I-6 say: "your new master"? Resuming: I more likely think that Gavilar's assassination was ordered by the Parshendi what fitted really good in Taravangians plans (of trying to avoid the unification of the Highprinces; so Taravangian seems kind of odium-like voidbringer-ish). So much thoughts, so much possibilities :-)

Please help :-) Do we know how Denth was named by the Cult of the Returned? I couldn't find anything about this (I looked for because of Denth's page on Coppermind wiki). Did I miss something? Where did the name "Vara Treledees" come from? I looked through the pdf-book too, but I've to admit that I'm avoiding the annotations (maybe once upon a time I've got to print them all out).

Do this pills work? If yes, please send me some :-). Now earnest, I like your idea how the Blades/Plates could have been made ... but where then do the ones come from that are in use "nowadays"? As for the number of Knights Radiant: I think one could say the were the elite of soldiers. And I think no elite is endless. So for example if there would be 100 KR per order then they will be filled if they lose one. KR were not immortal. Maybe there were times when there were less than 100 in an order. The invitation that Harlaykain made to Heb/Dalinar did not mean that it was sure he would become a KR too. This, I think, not only because he might have been not good enough to ascend as KR. The more fights, the more KR would have died, the more aspirants were needed and could ascend. But I think that there were times when aspirants could not ascend because of "no need". And Harlaykain said it was not his decision who ascends and who not, what implies that this decisions were made by man, and not by spren as one could believe.

Or a Soulcaster + Shallan for one Shardblade?

I hope I don't seem to always speak contrary. I don't think that Taravangian held Szeth' Oathstone the whole time, because 1. other people definitively held the Oathstone in the time between Gavilar's assassination and "today" (for example we see the Oathstone when his one master was killed and the culprits found it, so that Szeth's master changed on this event) and 2. I don't think that Taravagian would have had entrustet the Oathstone to this varying masters*. At least he would have given his power over Szeth to other people. 3. I'm not under the impression that Szeth knew Taravangian before they met in Kharbranth. (*One might think, that this masters were Taravangian's 'beings', but why then kill the last?)

Now I'm worried. What is "humanoid"? Looking like humans but not being such? I'll ask because I just read that Parshendi and Aimians are no humans (Forum Q&A). If I mix up something, please correct me.

Other than in Mistborn, I don't remember that there were clocks mentioned in TWoK. So 'pre-clocks' heartbeats might be a method to measure or determine a timespan, even it is an vague way of measuring. I think Teft could also count up to 100 or count 100 breaths instead of counting 100 heartbeats. I don't think that each counting in TWoK is related to the ten heartbeats.

He wondered about Syl talking to him (especially when she first mentioned his name). (Kaladin in TWoK Chapter 2)Surely Syl has already been on her way to become (again?) a sentient and intelligent being at this time; at the end of TWoK she had finished her progress (there is word from BS about this somewhere, but I'm nearly sleeping; I'll look ...). About other spren I found this. But didn't the truthspren talk to Shallan in this scene before her "accident" with the goblet? Hadn't she been disturbed while summoning her blade, because "somebody" talked to her? I think "somebody" was one of the truthspren. (Shallan in TWoK Chapter 45)And a bit from BS about the truthspren

I may have missed something (again), but what gave you the idea that "they were around for 10 generations or so" or "800 years"? And why do you think, that each generation got new Blades (and Plates)? Ah, I see, if they were buried with their holders. Today this would be kind of a sacrilege on Roshar, but it may have been usual back then -- after all, back then the creation of new Shards were well-known. Still I'd like to hold on my next idea: I think the Plates and Blades would be given away to the next generation (whereas "generation" not exactly means a familiar generation but the next trained Knights). So even if sometimes a Knight or two got lost (and their Blades/Plates with them), the number of Shardblades/-Plates wouldn't increase so much. Apart from this I like the idea of staples of Blades and Plates lost in Urithiru.