Philomath

I am really curious about where things will go next with the Vorin church. Everything they think they knew is being turned on its head and I don’t think they go down without a fight. I also really don’t know how they will fit in with all the storylines we have left. I mean I trust Brandon to make things pull together well, but since I’m hoping for Book 4 to be Singer/Listener-centric and Book 5 to be Shin-centric given the viewpoint characters, I just wonder what room is left for the Ardentia.

Am I the only one who thinks that Dalinar isn’t totally guilty for what happened at the Rift? I really just feel like he is the product of an incredibly violent culture. He was basically raised and used by his brother to be the Warlord. Vorinism reveres soldiers. The whole belief system is that the afterlife will continue to be one big battle to reclaim the Tranquiline Halls. Will the truth of what happened to Evi at the rift be shocking? Yes. But do I blame Dalinar? Not completely. Conquest, brute strength, and force are par for the course in Alethkar. Sadeas certainly didn’t mind what Dalinar did. And in regards to Adolin and Renarin learning about Evi. It’s not like Dalinar sought her out specifically to kill her. Yes it was by his hand. But it was far from his intent. I just find it hard to hold him totally accountable for what happened given the culture he was a part of.

You’re right that one kingdom on its own couldn’t focus on an exclusive thing and survive. But they probably weren’t trying to survive on their own. They were probably doing a pretty good job of being a united Roshar (at least most of the humans) at the time. Similar to how Dalinar really gets his coalition going now. Thaylens in charge or trade, Alethi in charge of strategy and defense, Azir in charge of a code of conduct, etc. There is no way anyone comes out okay ina desolation on their own. Now they just need to unite with the Singers against the real enemy.

I think this is probably why Spensa is doing the solo thing. She is trying to pressure herself into using the FTL ability. Not necessarily that she doesn’t value teamwork or trust others.

I agree with this. I didn’t think the visions were linked to bonding the Stormfather and don’t see why he couldn’t send them to multiple people at once. He essentially does this in Oathbringer at Dalinar’s request. As to some death rattle discussion. In reference to “the day was ours but they took it.” This one made me think of the battle before the Everstorm. The Alethi technically won that battle but were too late to stop the storm. And the last one from the King of Jah Keved. I think it would be interesting if Taravangian was overhearing a death rattle about himself. The night reigns obviously being Odium. But “the choice of honor is life” fits with Taravangian’s ideas to save who he can. So he views it as honorable to do what he must to save those he can given he sees Odium’s reign as inevitable.

There are so many characters I really like. But I think my top favorites are Dalinar and Sazed. And possibly Lightsong. I apparently have an affinity for people who experiences crises of faith. And still are good people who seem to come out stronger for struggling through their beliefs.

I enjoyed Oathbringer the first time I read it, but I actually think I like it even more now after just finishing a second reread a few weeks ago and having quite a while to really think about it. It definitely has some pacing issues. I remember the first time through feeling like the Kholinar and Shadesmar parts were long (I still liked them) but this time through I was actually surprised by how quickly I got through them. I think the things with parts 1-4 is that they were different from what I expected to happen. So on a reread knowing what was already going to happen, I really just got to enjoy it more. Part 5 and Dalinar’s whole arc are what really well and truly make this book amazing. I loved this part of the book on both reads. Overall I’d sum up my feelings on Oathbringer as the pacing and plot weren’t perfect, but the character stuff was so on point and fantastic. I love it.

It’s possible that it is more of a post recreance in hiding tradition than an actual need in Skybreaker bonds. There are lots of things on Roshar and in real life where rules or practices are just a part of the times/culture versus actually being an actual necessity.

Not too sure on this, but the thought I had listening to the last death rattle about the suckling child was about Jasnah and Renarin. Renarin was generally viewed as weak and helpless (like a suckling child) in Alethi society. And as Jasnah originally determined, people may want him dead since he is part voidbringer and thus a huge unknown.

I like the idea that the Intents of Shards are along the lines of characteristics of a god. Some ideas already said that I like are Ingenuity, Compassion, and something related to knowledge ie Wisdom or Enlightenment. One new one I have considered before that hasn’t been mentioned is Trial. And I know this is about unknown shards, but I also have a head cannon that if Devotion and Dominion were to somehow be taken up together a la Harmony that they would become Zeal.

That is a good point. But I don’t think it would have been that hard for them to have set something up to make it seem to have been discovered by other means. It’s not like the skaa underground generally is that trusting of each other. And piercing copperclouds was thought to be impossible. So I’m not sure the general populace would put that together. The only times we ever see Inquisitors in Book 1 were when they were hanging out in Kredik Shaw, doing mass executions, or when an obligator brought one in to hunt down Vin. Sure they were scary by reputation, but they didn’t seem to be doing a lot with all the time that passes by.

So I’m re-reading Era 1 right now and have a question about the Inquisitors. I know there aren’t many of them, but if they can pierce copperclouds, why aren’t they out and about more looking for Smoker’s hideouts? Really, they would just have to stroll through the city at random (maybe disguised) and burn bronze. They could find a bunch of skaa mistings that way. I also just read the scene of the first public executions post Yeden’s crazy stunt with the army. The crew is watching with Clubs burning copper while Spook and Kel use other metals and there are 8 Inquisitors present. How did they not notice that? If I were them that would definitely be a time to be seeking. Perhaps it is because the Lord Ruler was doing such a powerful Soothing and it messed with their sensing abilities. But I feel like they really weren’t utilized all that well for the skills they had.

Yeden. Seriously, what was he thinking?!? He nearly ruined everything for the crew and their plans and got thousands of people killed for nothing. It was just plain stupid.

Ha ha! I had not seen that WoB before. That is awesome. Thanks.

I have a head cannon that Lift’s/Wyndle’s “Shardfork” is going to actually be a shard trident come the back half and she has grown up more. (I wanted to put something like that in the cosmere memes but don’t know how to make them. A what we think it is/what it actually is.)

Oh. I also had a thought on the Who’s That Cosmere Character. That second one was awesome. All those clues for the second one were totally fair game. They accurately described a single character. No one complains about Hoid clues coming from multiple works. But your reactions were hilarious.

I have a question about plate regrowing. Does it grow back in its unornanented slate grey making them repaint it every time? I imagine it would. Shardplate is cool. I also wonder what would happen if you divided the plate evenly and fed it an even amount of stormlight. Which set would “die?” Is there a main piece, like the helm possibly, that is more important for regrowth to be possible? On a somewhat related note. The gems they put on shardblades essentially seem like transportation fabrials. Which I think is above current fabrial technology, but they essentially take what post recreance was a purely physical object and allow you to transport it somewhere else and summon it at will. That gem is weird.

I definitely want mentions of Gavinor and Oroden. So much. And for them to be more prominent in the back 5 would be fantastic But I have one last guess on something that will show up in Book 4. (Or that I hope will at least.) More Nohadon weirdness. At least once. Though maybe it will wait until Book 5 since there wasn’t much in Book 2 and Dalinar will be more prominent again in that book. Also, I’m just changing my mindset on thinking about what will happen Book 4. We’ve got to think ahead to Book 5 a little too. We know it is Szeth’s book which leads me to believe that Szeth will not get to move forward too much on his goal to cleanse Shinovar. But Book 4 will need to put him in a place where he can by the end of the book. So I suspect part of the reason Dalinar doesn’t let him go yet will be trust issues. Szeth is going to have to prove himself to everyone. I also think the coalition will have their hands full just trying to get to Shinovar. They are in some ways surrounded by enemy forces in Alethkar and forces in the Iri/Rira area. Fighting a war on 2 fronts is not going to be easy. I think this book will focus on the Alethkar front along with the Horneater peaks. (Horneaters have better tie ins to the Listeners while Rirans and Iriali fit better in Book 5 since that could have been Dalinar’s book and Evi is from there.) So somehow in this Book Szeth will prove himself, and they will deal with enough war issues that they will be able to move toward Shinovar. Or something will happen that will leave them no choice but to go there in Book 5. Wow. That got more long-winded than I thought. I was just writing thoughts as they came.

I’m with @CrazyRioter on this one. Adolin doesn’t regret killing Sadeas, but he definitely doesn’t blame others for him doing it. He accepts responsibility for it. (And I don’t think not outright saying he did it from the beginning is not accepting responsibility.) Also, yes, Adolin will learn the truth about his mother from Dalinar, not Odium. It may change their relationship, but I actually don’t think it will strain it any more than Adolin killing Sadeas did. And Dalinar literally says something along the lines of “Adolin was not the man he thought he was, but he could forgive him that.” And is generally understanding after thinking over Adolin’s actions. Maybe Adolin struggles more with what Dalinar did at Rathalas, but while Dalinar technically was the one who killed Evi, he didn’t do it to her specifically on purpose. He was driven by the Thrill and Alethi culture to do what he did there. Although I wonder how much Adolin really knew of who the Blackthorn was. He was constantly talking about wanting to see his father release the Blackthorn during WoK, but maybe he didn’t understand how bloodthirsty Dalinar really was and will be shocked at that revelation. (Kind of like I was on first reading Dalinar’s flashbacks in OB, though I have come to appreciate them more through time and re-reads.) On another more now: Definitely this. But even more than just teaching surges will be teaching how to counter surges like he did to get the King’s Drop from the Fused.

I’m not sure how good these predictions are, but I don’t actually think Shallan’s main problems are going to be relationship issues with Adolin. I actually think she’ll have more problems related to her involvement with the Ghostbloods. And I think we will actually see her grow closer to resolving her personas issue. Maybe not 100% yet, but I don’t think she gets worse or stays where she ended up at the end of OB. I think Kaladin starts to learn to let go of his desire to protect everyone due to Bridge 4 becoming more and more independently Radiant. He’ll learn that you can still look out for each other while accepting that people will still make their own choices (and sometimes poor choices) Like he said to Teft and the end of OB that they will continue to help save each other. He’ll also have character growth aided by time spent with his family, who hopefully he can get to Urithiru. I actually am really excited for more Venli/Timbre. I can’t wait to see where they go and how the start to teach the Singers. I agree with the idea that they will break from Odium, but maybe not 100% join the humans yet either. And I really want Rlain to find the runaway Listeners from WoR. They will more likely join the humans first since Rlain is Bridge 4. I think Singer/Listener history is also going to teach us more about the Unmade so there will be a good tie in with having more of them get involved. I think the main interlude character is going to be either Moash/Vyre or Taravangian. Those usually seem to focus on someone who is somewhat an antagonist to our main characters.

I think after what Gavinor lived through in Kholinar what he is going to need is some extra hugs and TLC. Good thing he’s got some awesome bridgemen (who are extra in their own rights) who seem determined to take good care of him. Not that you can “get it” from your younger brother, but Elhokar certainly had a flair for the dramatic too.

That is a good question. Especially given that it seems to use a giant ancient fabrial just like the oathgates and soulcasters.

When your son finds your copy of Oathbringer and asks you to read some to him and then he discovers the map and KR symbols on the inside cover and thinks they are the coolest thing ever and begs you to tell him about it. He is 5... And he loved all the KR orders and can’t decide which one he likes most. But he said if he was a Dustbringer he would use it to start a campfire so we could roast lots of hot dogs and marshmallows. And then you are just so happy that your kid seems like he will grow up to be a Sanderfan just like you.

That was my other thought. That they are literally “oathgate spren.” Not just spren who chose to be part of the oathgate.

So admittedly we don’t know much about the oathgate spren. Just some descriptions and speculations. But one theory I see a lot is that they are the spren associated with the surge of transportation. An ink spren (elsecallers) and a light spren (willshapers). The ink spren makes sense with the given description but a light spren doesn’t. Captain Ico and his crew are lightspren and they are described as looking like bronze sculptures. Which does not line up with the mother of pearl description of the second oathgate spren. So what are some other options for what the second oathgate spren could be? We also know there are some (I can’t remember the term) more intelligent spren that are not nahel spren. Maybe it is one of those. Maybe this oathgate spren and the unknown spren in soulcasters chose to help humanity through fabrials bonds instead of nahel bonds.