StanLemon

@Bigmikey357 The supercharging and recharging is BECAUSE of the Perpendicularity. I just read the chapter from the book today, it is VERY clear that the Perpendicularity is why he's able to do it.

Yes you are, I already posted this WoB. The footnote there straight up says that Brandon mislead the person in that WoB making the whole WoB practically pointless. Also the book directly contradicts it which as we've established multiple times, books trump WoB so until Stormlight 4 explains more we have to go off of what the books says

You're probably using this to justify that all Bondsmiths could do what Dalinar did But there is that very important bolded footnote there at the end. As I've just read the chapter where Dalinar does it, it is very clear that it is because of the Perpendicularity that they get access to all that Stormlight. Jasnah's perspective is pretty explicit that it's because the Three Realms are so close as to almost be one and that they can basically tap directly into the Spiritual Realm for power that they have all that Stormlight. And as others have said, books trump WoB and Stormfather explicitly states that recharging spheres has never happened before. My personal guess is that because Honor is dead, any Bondsmith could do what Dalinar did but it requires the Shard to not have a vessel and be "free flowing" so to speak.

I never said they weren't as strong as a Thug, but they lack the other advantages of Pewter. That is a huge assumption on Plate you are making One, Atium is pure Investiture, it would be like trying to Soulcast a Shardblade. Two, that is an obscene amount of metal for them to get to, they wouldn't be able to sneak enough Soulcasters in to do the job. We've already told you how they can spot illusionists. No it's not, at this point you are trying to make up advantages for Roshar. I just checked every related tag on the Arcanum I could think of and just reread the chapter. YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THIS. The reason they were supercharged and recharged was explicitly because of the Perpendicularity. That would use up a lot of there Stormlight reserves and as I have told you and given an example as to it, BONDSMITHS CAN'T RECHARGE THEIR SPHERES. Did you really think Scadrial of all worlds wouldn't go on the full offensive? The Lord Ruler was a conqueror. You keep acting like Roshar would have all this Stormlight to be able to pull off every grand feat. Also, only two orders would be able to stay away from TLR's wrath. Lastly, your aluminum thought isn't as great an advantage as you think. It's absolutely terrible to use as armor, weapons wouldn't be very good either. It admittedly would be protection from emotional Allomancy and probably decent as arrowheads but other than that, making a bunch of aluminum would be more a hindrance for Roshar. Aluminum would be a great armor for Scadrial because it's light weight and blocks Shardblades.

I think it's a relatively short time span. Both Kelsier and Vin were already feeling the effects of the Intent after only days holding Preservation

Let's not forget, Jasnah is still a person with her own biases and cultural attitudes regardless of her logic. I wouldn't go as far as to call her a hypocrit but there is more than a little bit of influence from her culture and personal preferences in her worldview. For example, despite her comment on feminine arts and being an atheist she still adheres to Vorin traditions on what is feminine and it's more than mere practicality causing her to do so, she honestly has that worldview. Edit: to help explain with her view of visual arts, her personal bias is that they are something that does not interest her or something she really has any skill in. She also thinks that she's ahead of the curve so to speak so if there is something that she doesn't consider to have value then it obviously can't have value

From Oathbringer chapter 119 As evidence here, only Dalinar has been able to recharge Sheres and supercharge Radiants. No other Bondsmith could do it before

That was Vin, not exactly a standard Mistborn. Just like how Szeth won't be a standard Radiant. Because we don't know how much more resistant Radiant Shardplate will be we have to use Dead Shardplate as are basis. Besides, I don't it's much more resistant but more likely regenerates faster. Scadrial has canned food, much easier to supply food in that situation. Carrying boulders would be fairly obviously seen from a distance, plus it would still use a quite a fair bit of Stormlight to carry said boulders. The reason that the trebuchets worked was because it was a surprise attack, Elend (who's grip on the Koloss can't compare to TLR) wasn't paying attention, and the Koloss had no one to turn their rage onto but themselves. Let's break that down, well it won't be a surprise attack because anyone who glances at the sky would be able to see the Radiants coming they glow after all. The Koloss only attack their own allies when not directed even when enraged. And you yourself said in your example that their would be regular soldiers mixed in so they would have an outlet for their rage. Show me the source on this, the only example of Division being used I can remember it was used via touch. True By neutral planet it would be more likely it was a Cosmere standard planet, so likely one that would benefit Scadrians. Just because Rosharans would be used to a more hostile landscape doesn't mean they would be able to handle a less hostile one. Their entire way of life is set up for the Roshar environment, but not something that would be good in any kind of other environment. One of the pov chapters has a character describing how weird and unsettling the springy grass is in Shin. Also, let's say that the gravity and oxygen quality on the neutral planet is equivalent to Roshar, that would only be a boon for Scadrians and if the gravity and oxygen was Scadrian standard then Rosharans would have trouble with it. Remember, Scadrians during the Final Empire also are accustomed to hostile environments, just a different kind of hostile. There is also WoB saying metalborn are more common than people think and frankly the books back up Calderis's and Rshara's viewpoint more. The only reason the Misting numbers are so low is because a lot of them haven't snapped Language is still an issue, as someone who has actually studied linguistics I can tell you that. Accents, slang, etc all have meaningful aspects and a Bondsmith has not been shown to be able to duplicate those. The issue with Lightweavers using illusions is that any Seeker will be able to spot them (e.g. an Inquisitor). I'm sure they would be able to do a fair bit of damage against normal ranks but if they are trying to sneak into higher ranked areas they would probably fail. Wayne is a savant when it comes to accents and language. Very few people could pull off what he does. It's really not as easy as you think it is. Just because you can speak the language doesn't mean you can compensate for all the little things. I've known people who learned english as a second language and have been speaking it in the US for decades who still have a noticeable accent. Steel Inquisitors can make out the full features of what they see. Only two things really give the Radiant a close range advantage, their healing and Shardblades. A third advantage is Plate if they have it. But they aren't stronger by any sense, frankly they are likely weaker. They live on a planet with less gravity so they would develop less muscle mass. Also the strength given from Stormlight has not been shown to be anything superior to Pewter whereas Pewter also gives perfect dexterity, agility, and balance which hasn't been shown to be the case with Stormlight. And they do not have a wider variety of abilities to draw on, the amount is actually fairly even. Again as has been said, we have no evidence of that beyond Dalinar and the time he did that was something unusual as even Odium didn't think it was possible. In fact the wiki says that the Stormfather said that only Dalinar has ever accomplished that feat (I'll see if I can find the line in Oathbringer). So know the Bondsmiths can't do what you are saying. I actually have to agree, one of the reasons stealth was so useful to Mistborn was because of the Mists This is because they use less Stormlight to make illusions than a Lashing does. We don't know the threshold the Screamers were focusing on. But as has been seen in the Mistborn books, even feint pulses can still be detected by Seekers Yes, but they have better metals, they have canned food, they have siege weapons, etc. We aren't talking about guns we are talking about all the other advantages a civilization on the cusp of industrialization has. Which will show inconsistencies in illusions True

I have no evidence of it but I have a hypothesis that Copper makes an Investiture static so to speak.

In what way? We never see something like that in the books Yes but Shardplate has been shown to crack and break to normal weaponry without it being too over the top with how much damage it takes. As RShara said, the bulk is Koloss. Also the Garrison soldiers aren't likely to be underfed. One of the biggest reasons skaa joined was because it gave a better life and food As was brought up well before you made this post. Doesn't change the obscene Stormlight requirements. Every Radiant who could do it would have to stop somewhere between 500-1,000 Koloss each, well beyond anything we've seen a Radiant do. Lurchers would have more trouble but not so much with Coinshots. They can break armor from a distance, have good mobility, and if the Windrunners try to do the Lash them up and let them fall trick the Coinshot can just drop a coin and Push to avoid hitting the ground.

I'm not sure if he said that but he did say that a naturally born Fullborn is possible but very difficult

Additionally he had a thousand years to hone his abilities becoming a savant in every single metal.

Relevant WoB

Also your Cohesion clarification doesn't change anything about the absolutely absurd amounts that they would have to affect to stop the Koloss. Surges are powerful yes but I doubt the Radiants had Dawnshard level power. My guess is that the Dawnshard is the Roshar System's equivalent of what is happening with Scadrial, an advanced technology derived from the Surges. Also, are you forgetting about Thaylen cities army and the Kholin army? They were a part of that fight too, it wasn't just a handful of Radiants against an army. This clearly tells me that you are overestimating what the Radiants can do. I don't remember them having steel but I could be wrong about that as I do need to reread Way of Kings. But it's still would be inferior to modern Roshar which for the most part is inferior to TFE technology. We don't know if they had Spanreeds back then or other Fabrials but frankly I doubt it. Developing Fabrials seems to be a thing that happened after the Radiants went away. Darkeyes in general DON'T fill the Thrill, it's primarily a thing that affected Lighteyes. We don't really know that it had a special with Dalinar, only that Dalinar himself felt as if it was a friend. No it's not out of left field for it to dampen Soothing but it's still unlikely If they can't get Atium on this neutral world then I posit that the Radiants should also be forced to bring all their Stormlight as well. It's definitely a non standard plentiful source of Investiture that isn't available on any other world we know of. That's part of the advantage of the Metalic Arts, they can be used anywhere there is metal whereas Surgebinding is dependent on an abundant source of Investiture. They still need to get close to attack. So the only real advantage it gives is a better ability to withdraw As evidence by Wax & Wayne, you can store decent amounts of a trait in a relatively short amount of time. When Sazed was fighting the Koloss, his years of storing lasted hours and hours and Sazed wasn't a fighter so I doubt he knew how to be discriminate of how much to tap or how long to tap a Metalmind for a prolonged battle. They were smart enough to figure out how to make more of themselves which they could do with captured Rosharan forces. But as you said, the intelligence comes from the one controlling them, a Millennia old war lord who has conquered his whole world. I don't underestimate them at all, I would say that the average Radiant would be as strong as the average Mistborn and a plated Radiant is probably stronger but you are underestimating Scadrial severely. Scadrial can field more troops, has more advanced technology, has an easier power source, has one of the most powerful beings in existence as their leader, etc. Roshar on the other hand has a fuel source that depletes even when they aren't using it and unreliable as to when it will be replaced, a good two thirds of their Radiants aren't warriors beyond likely basic training, plate that while powerful can be shattered with force that human warriors can muster albeit at heavy cost (a cost that goes down when Koloss and Pewterarms get into the occasion), and so on. And at the end of the day, Scadrial does have The Lord Ruler, once he's worn out the Radiants with his armies he would just decimate whatever was left

That's quite the assumption you have Seeing into the CR won't tell the spren anything, living things just look like glowing figures in the CR. They would have to see into the SR to be able to tell. Your assumptions with Shardplate and Mistings is flawed. The Thrill is a perfect example of how even someone in plate can have their emotions affected so Soothers/Rioters wouldn't be blocked and I can't remember anything about the Nahel bond blocking emotional manipulation at all and Dalinar was still influenced by the Thrill even when bonded to the Stormfather. Also, just because a coinshot can't affect the shardplate or shardblade directly doesn't mean they are useless, they can fire off barrages of metal to crack and break the plate from a distance. While the Koloss are simple they aren't stupid, sure a single wave would fall to that quicksand trap but they would start figuring ways around it. This is quite the assumption. Mistborn have a lot of maneuverability and unpredictability and their entire fighting style is often about not being hit. Something that is enhanced with the use of Atium. Sure they Windrunners and Skybreakers have air maneuverability advantage but what they do isn't much different than Steelpushing and Ironpulling. Their flight is just choosing which direction to fall. They also have to get close to actually hurt the Mistborn who again would likely have Atium which would give the Mistborn the advantage. As far as healing goes, yes the Radiants do have that advantage but that uses up their Stormlight which they use for everything else too. Also as has been pointed out before, only like a third at most of the Radiants are actually battle trained while all Mistborn are. Limited offensively? They can increase their strength and speed. Shardplate isn't indestructible, Szeth was able to break it with just Stormlight and an Honorblade so I'm sure a Feruchemist tapping Strength could easily shatter it and Shadows of Self is a perfect example of just how deadly Steelrunning is. Some Inquisitors could Compound, we have a WoB on that it's just that they had to figure it out for themselves in the past. Roshar's regular troops during the Recreance were bronze age tech basically while the Final Empire was much more advanced. Also Roshar's population wouldn't be able to field anywhere near the amount of regular soldiers as the Final Empire. Also, their is no way they would even know about aluminum to use that advantage. That's a poor argument for several reasons. First and foremost though is we were given a setting of The Final Empire vs Recreance era Knights Radiants. The Lord Ruler was ruling the Empire at the time so it makes sense for him to be their. The Heralds and Fused don't in any way make sense to be a part of that war. The Fused were the Radiant's enemies so they would likely side with Scadrial to exterminate the Radiants or more likely just stay out of the conflict altogether. And that's assuming their even were any Fused left on Roshar during the Recreance. The Heralds also don't make sense because they abandoned the Oathpact and the Radiants. Additionally one of the ridiculous things I keep seeing in this thread is people keep attributing amazing feats to the Radiants without any real backing from the books or WoB. We never see them do anything on those scales in the books and if they could do that then the Desolations should have never even been a problem. Take for instance the quicksand trap earlier. How would that work exactly? There were at most only a couple thousand Radiants and only at best 20% of them could Soulcast. How would they Soulcast enough quicksand to stop somewhere in the area of 200,000 Koloss? Jasnah never Soulcasts on a huge scale, not even in Oathbringer where she has basically an infinite supply of Stormlight to work off of. In Way of Kings it breaks one of her spheres to Soulcast a boulder.

Has this been confirmed? I thought it was speculation

I think as readers we forget that we have a privileged perspective of things on the books. If you look at things from his perspective though his actions make a lot more sense and while I can't say I'm sympathetic to him I don't hate him because I can understand a lot of his reasoning. Elhokar abused his authority and caused the death of his loved ones, Kaladin at first agreed to the assassination but then from Moash's perspective betrayed him and protected the corrupt king. Moash didn't know that Elhokar was reforming. He sympathized with the Parshmen after learning more about them. And eventually his depressed and mentally tortured mind gave up to Odium. He's a foil not just to Kaladin but also to Dalinar with him failing where they succeeded

Allomancy requires Intent as well, yet we've seen it be used unconsciously

The issue is that even the Kandra postulate that Nicrosil can store the ability to use a type of Investiture. I personally think that a lot of things fall under the "Investiture" umbrella for Nicrosil, one aspect being the ability to store an ability and another being able to store raw Investiture that can can be used like a fuel so to speak. She might not consciously tap it because she was told it was for filling weight, but as I've postulated on another thread I'm of the opinion that someone can unconsciously tap Metalminds. I might need more elaboration on this one. I don't see how this is different that storing the ability to use something but just more convoluted. Unless you mean that the ability to grant someone powers is Hemalurgy's domain alone and that the Investiture of the Spike is drawn out and stored into the Nicrosilmind completely. Wouldn't they still need to be able to tap the Nicrosilmind to be able to access the stored Investiture? I can understand where you are coming from here, I just disagree as I think that the stored ability itself is what supplies the ability to use it. I think that even one trait medallions would need at least two Nicrosilminds, one with the trait to use F-Nicrosil with it having the power itself to use it stored into it all I think it would need is a Connection and Intent to use, one that has the ability to use the trait they want stored in which the previous Nicrosilmind would allow you to access and then finally the metal that you want to store and tap.

I guess I should elaborate, we know that Nicrosil is the important part of the medallions. It's what gives you the ability to tap the other unkeyed Metalmind in the medallion but what gives you the ability to tap the Nicrosilmind in the first place? If it's something external then why not just use that on the unkeyed Metalmind in the first place and eschew Nicrosil all together? And as I said in my last post, if a Soulbearer stores their ability to store Investiture into a Nicrosilmind then how would they tap it as they stored it into the Nicrosilmind. I can think of two main answers for this, either they still somehow retain the ability after storing it or they don't and they have to tap said Nicrosilmind to get it back (I have a third idea that is somewhere in between but that's a bit more complicated). I think the Investiture "wants" to be used (kind of how Marasi describes the experience with the medallion) and that it just needs the right Intention and the the right Identity (if keyed) to be Connect and be used. Based on the knowledge we have of the medallions, that seems the most likely explanation to me. To sum up, something has to give the people using the medallions the ability to use unkeyed Nicrosilminds (and if that's the case then why not just use that process on the Metalmind they actually want) or their is something inherently different about Nicrosilminds that let anyone use them if they aren't tied to Identity

Under most cases I think it wouldn't, the big difference though would be a Nicrosilmind filled with the power to use Nicrosil Feruchemy I think. Specifically, if you store your ability to use Nicrosil Feruchemy, how do you get it back?

Here is the question, is an unkeyed Nicrosilmind automatically unsealed? Because if not then they make no sense based on the knowledge we have about the medallion. You would need to have Nicrosil Feruchemy to ever use them if unkeyed Nicrosilminds aren't unsealed. Unless there is an aspect of Hemalurgy that we are completely unaware of, I don't think that it's necessary for making medallions but I do think Hemalurgic Spikes are the Excisors. If they are automatically unsealed like I hypothesize they are, then all you would need is a Soulbearer and a Trueself.

And the Lord Ruler isn't dumb either, in fact he was a genius even if he was arrogant. How would they go about destroying all sources of metal exactly anyway? Metal is very very prevalent and Soulcasters are less so. They would very quickly become the primary targets. On top of that, Soulcasting uses up a decent amount of Stormlight with each use so they would most likely be using up more stormlight than the amount of metal that they would destroy, not very efficient. Also, them even learning they would need to target metal would be harder than it would be for Scadrian forces to figure out Stormlight due to the nature of Stormlight being a glowing clearly magical thing whereas metal is fairly innocuous. Yes, but it doesn't matter. This is a war between two already established sides. Yes their is no shortage of Singer bodies but their is also no shortage of Koloss either. We saw the Fuzed perform and the ones with Gravitation would be a problem for Koloss or normal soldiers to hit true but they still die easy enough. We saw multiple Fuzed "die" they aren't by any means unstoppable. Steelrunners could kill Elsecallers/Willshapers before they even knew it. A single Steelrunner could kill hundreds in seconds. Now as this scenario is during the Final Empire, TLR wouldn't send in Terrismen but he may give the power over to some Inquisitors. It shouldn't be hard to imagine just how deadly an Inquisitor with F-Steel could be. He could have made them in small amounts, enough for himself and maybe some Inquisitors. The Final Empire was plenty advanced for the inefficient method of refinement. Hell, in real life Cadmium was discovered in the early 1800s. Chromium, which may or may not be able to wipe out other types of Investiture (such as Stormlight) was discovered even earlier

I think the biggest challenge for leaving Roshar as a plot is Investiture. Fabrials and Surgebinding both are heavily reliant on the large amount of Investiture available on Roshar, something that will be far more scarce in usable forms once they leave.