marianmi

Another idea: the black sphere Szeth is carrying breaks during the fight, a corrupted spren is released that bonds and creates a thunderclast. Both Kaladin and Szeth fight the thunderclast. Szeth has proof about voidbringers and is not truthless anymore.

* Parshendi are the native inhabitants of Roshar, humans were created by Honour * "Friends before" in the quote may mean dalinar's soldiers, not the parshendi. Though I understand it as the parshendi as well.

Shards are invested objects. 1) are invested by Honour - that would mean that now it's impossible to create shards anymore. "return to men the shards they once bore" would mean then literally return the (currently corrupted) shards to oath bound KRs, thereby "clensing" them 2) are invested by KRs (with Honor's power) - using maybe the mystery surge..

PS: voidbringers hold stormllight perfectly, gems hold stormlight perfectly => I would say voidbringers are tied to gemhearts.

Creating spren would result in a weakening of the shard. Also, power is basically not lost, just transformed, so with Tanavast dead, Honor would find another "host". However, Odium has found a way around that. I believe that way is splintering + locking the splinters. Splinter Honour in many spren, and encourage fabrial making. The shard's power will be trapped there, and would not regenerate at the shardic pool. The entire heralds thing also might have been a cunning plan of Odium - splinters that have now betrayed the shard intent (by betraying their oaths they lost their honour), locked away in 10 powerful but warped humans. With 9 of them gone this way, Odium was then able to shatter what was left of Honour into more splinters, Tanavast the human died, and there was not enough power left to be considered a "shard of Ado". The entire gemheart hunt around Roshar would also be a part of Odium's plans somehow, to fuel fabrials.

I think they were solely Honor's creation. But yeah, I agree with you that heralds hold splinters.

Slivers apparently do not retain any powers, so heralds are not slivers because they lived thousands of years. Your point was that heralds were people, I was trying to make a point that they were not. However, reading the prologue, it is implied that Jezrien was a king before being a herald. So they were people.

A sliver is a person that HAD a full-on Ado shard and then let it go. So it's not "a piece of shard", it's a person that was a God and is no more.

Surface tension can strengthen "things" - but I can't see what Dalinar could have strengthen. Surges don't work on Plate. That's why I believe air was involved - and thus pressure somehow. Btw, how is pressure used by the windrunners? Seems to me that all 3 lashes are pure gravity.

Dalinar was supposed to be in book 2, but now he's pushed back to book 5 I think. So unfortunately, looks like Dalinar would be the one to die. But I don't think he will die in 2nd book. Szeth's book was going to be 4 I think, and now may be 3. So it's not Szeth, I see him having an important role near the end of the series. So: 1) Szeth will attack Dalinar and kill him in book 3 I believe if/when Szeth will attack Dalinar, he would def. not retreat - he wants to die, he wants to find someone to kill him. He would be happy to find Kaladin. Also, he cannot be taken prisoner - he has a shardblade... he can summon it anytime and break free 2) Szeth vs. Kaladin are on the cover => they will meet in this book. Previous book had Dalinar vs. Esonhai, and those 2 fought. So Szeth and Kaladin will fight. Even if he kills Dalinar now, I can't see him running away from Kaladin. This is a big conundrum. Unless Szeth somehow "converts" and breaks his stoneoath before/during his attack, I can't see how he and Dalinar and Kaladin can all stay alive after their encounter. Kaladin would let him go if he would need to help Dalinar - but I really cannot see Szeth running away. The only way I see this would go if it's somehow the fight gets "intrerrupted" - for example both Szeth and Dalinar would be fully incapacitated, and Kaladin would choose to leave Szeth and heal Dalinar, and Szeth would see he has no chance of continuing the fight, then he would see it somehow as his duty to get better and come back later to finish the fight Or Darkness would make an appeareance to take out both Kaladin and Szeth (and Jasnah and Shallan btw) then they would have to work together (Szeth having a better idea who/what Darkness is and somehow being the proof that he is not truthless?).

If a KR could do that to air, then he could do that to the air around somebody's head, suffocating them... Or he could start walking on air .... or he could create invisible air swords and kill you at whatever distance ... or create many small knifes and spread them around him, killing everyone that has surrounded him ... It's just too... weird

Yes, and what I'm saying is that I can argue Dalinar started displaying the traits at the end of TWoK and by the time Jasnah gets to the shattered plains, Dalinar might have a bond (either with a fully discerning spren, or one that is not fully "awake").

In the example BS gave, it was used on an object, not on air. So I highly doubt what you are saying. You are not alone, I keep this as an open possibility. Also, Dalinar might die as soon as book 3, and he would be easier to kill if he were not KR I totally agree with your last statement, but not the first - given his resolve at the end of the book, he might just started attracting a spren. Lift got her spren suddenly/she was "assigned" a spren, not over a year or more, though she has been slow in developing the bond since she thinks Wyndle is a voidbringer. So you can have a spren "assigned" instead of "attracting" one.

I also thought of surface tension initially, but I can't see how that's possible - the only think he could have used it on would have been his armour, but you cannot use the surge on it cause it's already invested. So it's very improbable that it was surface tension. It was either pressure or the unknown one.

Yes, TLR is a sliver not a splinter. Sprens are similar to seons, which are splinters. Based on BS's comment, who said heralds were "created" by Honor in a similar way to sprens => heralds are not exactly human. Maybe they have a dual component (like Honor/Tanavast) and that would be the honorblade/herald human, but I am not that sure. That would imply that they are mortal w/o their swords, which does not seem to be true.

I see windrunners as the "cavalry" (maybe skybreakers too), making a good use of their mobility... Medics as on-the-field support. Soulcasters also for support, but not in the first lines as the medics. And stonewarders + dustbringers as the heavy infantry/blunt force.

Yes, you can equally argue about both, I don't think there are enough strong arguments for any. But it does feel to me #10 is tiny bit closer. His struggle is with leadership/guiding more than "being dependable". When he gives his word, there is no double he will keep it. He is dependable. I don't see this as his primary struggle. I also believe he might have used a bit of Pressure vs the chasmfiend. Now, it's equally possible that he will not be KR He will recreate/guide KRs but not be one himself - Nohadon was not a KR

"sea of lost lights" would be where kharbranth is. to get back at the OP question - Urithiru should be next to the Honor's pool. It should be pretty hidden/remote and not in plain view as the shattered plains.

Yup invisibility seems very plausible... Also, with surface tension, could you walk on water? Because soulcasting water into wine looks pretty easy. SURFACE TENSION + TRANSFORMATION = JESUS

Last surge: INVESTING

Honor "formed" the heralds. I don't think it was *before* he came to Roshar. They also don't have a bonding spren - they are some kind of spren themselves i.e. they are splinters. They are not necessarly of "physical" - they spent most of their time in another realm being tortured. I would assume they can go in all realms.

Let's look at all potential KRs - they all somehow show the traits, but are in conflict about it. Shallan has issues with telling the truth. (she lies/does not want to tell the truth) Kalladin has issues with protecting/leading due to Tien (he does not want to protect/lead) Lift obviously had issues with caring/remembering (talking to Darkness: "I tried to be like you" - only after she stopped being like Darkness would she have been able to get Wyndle) All potential KRs are defined by their conflict with their KR attributes. They do not start with these traits, they acquire/perfection/come to live with them. What is Dalinar in conflict with? He's in conflict with his beliefs about the Almighty because of his visions (pious). He is in conflict with guiding. He wants to give up his house's leadership. He does not want to guide anymore. He does not trust himself. He's been a highprice for a long time, but not truly "guiding". He's been complacent with things on the shattered plains. Now, he wants to guide. He wants to unite them. Now, he is attracting the spren.

And he does not have a spren because he did not exhibit the respective traits. He shows that he is dependable - but no spren came => he is not a stonewarden. When he will show more Guiding => the bondsmith spren will come to him. That's what I argued before. If he were #9, the spren should have come already. Later edit: he will become more pious also when he understands more from his visions and breaks free of the current (odium-influenced) religious practices.

Stonewardens are fighters/warriors. I see Dalinar as the next Nohadon. Nohadon was not a warrior. Dalinar is not a warrior anymore. He gave away his shards. His role is now to guide. The faster he is getting into his new role, the faster he will "ascend" to KR level. If he were a stonewarden, he would have found their immortal words when fighting the chasmfiend or when fighting on the Tower. Those were pretty good opportunities (especially the tower - "I will help my soldiers that depend on me" - POW - awesomeness - WHACK!) Now, I think he'll find the words when confronted with a more ... political ... crisis. (e.g.: "I will guide KRs and reform them, even though everyone thinks KRs are evil and they will wanna kill me" - POW - awesomeness!) Later edit: if he were stonewarden - dependable/resourceful - I'm sure he would have "snapped" when he decided not to leave the soldiers in the tower (dependable) even though he and Adolin could have jumped away).

Not only that, but abandoning the honorblades means abandoning the pact. Picking them up would mean resuming their functions. I'm sure they did not get their blades back - they "have no honour" now by breaking the oaths, so it's normal they would not have "honourblades". I must say the things are still murky. Here's different conflicting theories that can all make sense: 1) dawnshards are objects of investiture created by all shards (that's why they are called dawnshards and not honourblades). So you have honourblades invested by Honour, but also other shards invested by Odium and maybe Cultivation. This was the oathpact - the shards intentionally "weakened" themselves by heavily investing some objects, and let the minions fight using these objects of power. So Szeth's sword may be an odium-blade for example. 1a) The black sphere may be a dawnshard - you don't have to invest a sword, you can invest any object... The idea is that Honor's power is still trapped in the swords, and releasing Odium's power would make him stronger. 1b) "Without the dawnshards..." quote from Honour - Honor's dawnshards (the honourblades) are lost/corrupted since the heralds left them. 2) On the other hand, I think there was some reading where Honor said he created the heralds, in a way I understood as heralds being splinters - so the heralds themselves are invested, that's why they are immortal. So heralds are some kind of spren, living in some other realm (spiritual?), and transported in the physical when the desolation starts. These 2 actually don't necessarly contradict eachother... you can have splinters having invested objects... hmmm.... What do you think?