Mandamon

As to name drops, I don't think it's bad to have another two characters (or maybe just one) that gives them information. But the first time you mention them you could have something like Mort remembering a certain characteristic of the person, or why they are important to her, or even something as simple as "Sari, their fence" (or whatever job she has).

Sprouts--thanks again! Good call on Kisare and Belili helping Hbelu out. It will make them look a lot more proactive, and would give Bel another chance to use magic. I may just steal that. Yeah, the corpse part is a little unclear. They can only work with spirits, so it's supposed to be the ghost of a rotting corpse, but I don't think I described it well. Good catch as well on the villager reactions. I think I was so happy to get to the next destination while writing this that I skipped over some of the reaction. That would be a good thing to add in on the first big edit. There probably is some Stockholm Syndrome with the sisters, but I don't know if I ever really address that directly. Great comments all around.

Sprouts--thanks for all the posts! I'll respond here for all of them. I'm glad to get your opinion on the sisters, as you've read pretty much straight through. I freewrite character personalities, whereas I outline the plot, so a lot of Belili's wooden temperament starting out is from my original idea of the character. She starts to develop a lot more once she gets off the plantation, so I'll need to add some of that back in to the first few chapters when I edit. Sounds like everyone's agreed that the action scene at the creek, as well as the one outside the slave shed, need work. Good comments on both. The box will be investigated in the second part of chapter 5 (so next week's post). I'm interested to see what everyone thinks of that part.

Stormweasel: great comments, especially on the pacing. I don't often get a lot of comments on that, but this helped me clarify some of the things I've felt were wrong with this chapter. I've made several edits already and haven't gotten it right yet. There is some tension in the second half of the chapter, but you're correct that the "chase" tension has bled away by that point. Good catch.

First, some notes: pg 1: "Mort sighed, slid the lid of her crate off and sat up. “Who was in charge of packing the supplies again?” “I know, I know” Percy sputtered." --new paragraph when a new person speaks pg 2: "The thumping was cut over by the sound of voices." --I think Robinski mentioned this before. "Cut over" sounds strange. pg 2: "gives me the creeps. Why do they need to wear those masks?” “Quiet Barowsky. They hear you and you’re a dead man.” “Just sayin’. They live above our laws. Nature’s even. I thought the Thinker was our God?” “C’mon man, you’re gonna get us all killed.” --same thing here with new paragraphs for dialogue pg 3: interesting device. Technology or magic, I wonder? I didn't peg the tech level as high enough to create something like this. pg 5: Contempt seems to overstate things a lot. You describe an action, and then Contempt talks about it. Not sure if that's on purpose, but it reads as overkill. Overall, this kept me reading until the end. I was a little confused with the conversation with the thinker. Because of the reference to needles, and the all-caps voice talking about blood, I thought the machine was talking to her at first. Then you said it was the Thinker, but I'm not sure why he would choose that moment to speak, unless it was tied to something that happened. You also mention Sari and Barrus several times, but I don't think we've met them. I don't know what they're good at, or what jobs they have, so it's hard for me to understand why they're being referenced and what they mean to Mort and Co. Aside from that, it was interesting. I'm wondering if we'll go back to Jack soon, or if Mort has another chapter.

There is a natural break at this point in the chapter, but the second part is little over 2000 words so I split it. Part 1 of Chapter 5, in which Kisare and Belili learn more about the purple haired man and his people... Let me know what you think!

Can I do Ch5 pt1 for next week?

Thanks for the feedback, Juugatsu! Kisare is wishy-washy here, and I'm not sure whether to leave it as her developing her freedom, or rework it. I tried (am trying, as I'm still writing) very hard to avoid the "noble savage" trope, but I think it's worst in this chapter. Let me know what you think later on. As to the flower, there's no real importance to the type, I just thought was a good visual. Glad you're still enjoying it. I have a chart already made for the magic types! I'm not going to share it yet, as I want to see what people think, but feel free to make your own as the story progresses... I would attach it in an appendix if this ever got to that point. You have the right idea on the juices and mixing, but that won't come up until much later on.

Yep--I do something similar. I start with a general outline and character description, then as I write, I'm adding little sentences here and there of places I want to go during the story. Of course sometimes the characters have different ideas... Sounds very familiar. My first novel (the original version of Seeds of Dissolution, which also took about 10 years) was 204,000 words and also unpublishable. I don't have a complete writing log, but a quick tally of all the pieces I've written totals to around 726,000 words. Maybe 750,000 if you include rewrites and other bits and pieces. So when we hit a million we automatically get published, right? That's how it works?

...No idea what you mean. ;-)

Good comments. So maybe I'll just focus on the ending of the chapter instead--probably bring the focus back to the box again. Just keep plugging away at the writing--you'll get there! I've been keeping a daily wordcount for this book. It helps me stay consistent in writing and gives me a sense of satisfaction when I reach those goals.

Not a whole lot to report on this one. It was interesting to read, but a little hard to get through. I was happy to see there is a point and arc to this as a story (which I was beginning to suspect while reading it), but there's a lot of crazy to slog through to get there. You tell us this upfront, so the reader sort of knows what to expect. It's still hard for me to read, simply because it's written as by one who is not good at writing. The final "zing" of the story is pretty disturbing, but think it fulfills the promises at the beginning. Just out of curiosity, was this written as a particular writing exercise, or just something that came to you? Who is your intended audience for this?

Sprouts - Thanks for the extra effort! The lack of hook seems to be the general consensus on the first chapter. Originally it progressed faster, but the readers then thought it was too fast! Now I need to find a balance between the two... I'll also be able to round out both girls' personalities in the beginning better now that I am most of the way finished writing it (up to 71K words today). I tend to be more of a discovery-writer with personalities than with plots.

Dulcet's Hammers: Just a quick note on audio format. "Duaren" is very hard to say out loud. Don't know if this affects anything, but I thought I would throw it out there. I liked the description in italics, but then as we've established in the epigraph thread, I like that sort of thing. I agree with Juugatsu that it did feel a bit "on the fly." Pg 3: "Moon wand" --I assume "moon waned" (I see you caught this one) Dragon Hawk: This section does show off dialogue, but I would be careful with that one. Murdoc's dialect might put some people off. I didn't have too much problem myself, but some of it is a little thick. Dinner Theater: The start of this is a little heavy-handed with the all the nefarious thinking, but it flows better once we start getting into the action. A few notes: pg 15: "Any potential witnesses and he’d also arranged for all of the musicians whose playing he didn't particularly care for to be at the dinner as well as a couple of guards whose loyalty he hadn’t been certain of" --long awkward sentence here pg 17: "After a brief conversation during which Calvius carefully gestured and pointed in ways that emphasized his control and superiority (all life was, after all, a performance) he guided the pale and shaken Menistus in the direction of some tables." --and here pg 18: "rushed of" --off You switch POVs to Calvius and then to the assassin at the end, when the rest has been in the Duke's POV. Personally, I would stick with just his POV in something this short. The transitions were hard to follow, and I had to read a couple sentences over again. Piglio, Chatter and the Mountain: I see the rat POV made it in here. That was also pretty jarring to 1) be in a non-sentient POV and 2) switch to the person who shot it. Not much else to comment on here. It's not a very long piece, and doesn't really have any sort of conclusion. Out of the four pieces, I like Dulcet's Hammers the best, for the poetry of it, and because it gives a coherent thought at the end. Dragon Hawk is a close second, minding some people may not like the dialect. Dinner Theater was good, and had a whole story to it. Parts were a little too unsubtle, I thought.

@Stormweasel: thanks for the catch on the arrow and the grammar. I've had some other comments on increasing the tension in this chapter (side-eye at Robinski) so I'll certainly try increasing the fight or flight response. I thought I addressed him calling them sisters (he recognized a familial resemblance) but it might be in the next chapter or I forgot to put it in. I'll check on that. Thanks!

I've read a lot of works where the epigraph isn't even any worldbuilding, but a quote from somewhere. It usually ties in with the chapter in some subtle way. Sanderson's epigraphs sometimes tie in, sometimes don't. Personally, I don't think they have to be tied to the story, as I like reading backstory filler stuff. Of course, they're an extra bonus if you can tie them in to a twist at the end of the story like Sanderson did with Mistborn. ' @Juugatsu: Once of the best (recent) things I learned from Writing Excuses: if you write, then you can call yourself a writer. You don't have to be published or a best seller to have an opinion--It's still very relevant!

I have a similar take on it as Juugatsu. While I do think they can be used badly or to info-dump, I like reading the extra worldbuilding information, even if it doesn't have a lot to do with the story. Sanderson's epigraphs do a good double duty in that they build up the world, but also give you some hints into characters. I think you could read his books, skip the epigraphs, and still get a great story. But if you read them, you get some behind the scenes information, which is what I want. I'm also the person that reads through the appendices after the Lord of the Rings, so I like this stuff. In my own writing, I use epigraphs to tell a creation story, or give facts that don't have a good place in the story itself. If you don't read them, it doesn't really affect the story.

I liked this a lot more than the first chapter. There is immediately a sense of action, and the characters draw me in, as they all have flaws and feel very real. I'm interested to know what will happen with Mort and co. There's a good sense of suspense, you've noted items that won't work, and the thief is drunk. These character work together well, and Mort came up with a good plan to get them out of a bind. I also liked the description of the Hands. We don't get a lot, except for two names, Sorrow and Anger, and the description of Anger's face matches his name. As Stormweasel said, the beginning of this is not as interesting as when we get to Mort and co's mission. You don't really have a POV at the beginning--you don't mention Mort until two paragraphs in. You might name-drop her earlier so then we know we're watching through someone's eyes. I didn't have a problem with the description, though there weren't as many at the beginning. I thought the sensory clues later in the chapter were good, lots of visual and auditory clues. You could add mentions of smells, that of the torches, and the pitch, and the smell of the chemical bottle. A couple notes: pg 1: "The man’s laugh gurgled..." --very long run-on sentence here pg 2: "Alright. You guys are both sober..." --Eh? Percy is very obviously drunk...Not sure what the intent is here. I would think even he would realize he's drunk. Looking forward to more!

Here is part 2 of chapter 4 of Fruits of the Gods, in which Belili and Kisare meet a hunter. Let me know what you think!

Poof! <appears in a puff of illogic> Well, I was going to comment on this, and then saw Robinski had already invoked me. So does that make this a double post by default? ;-) I've had a similar thought before, that since we're all familiar with Sanderson here, we all like at least some of the same sort of things. Thus we might get a false positive on some feedback because we're predisposed to like the things we submit. Dunno if that's true. I've also had concerns that many of us (intentionally or un-) might copy his plot points, magic systems, or characters. The writing style I'm not as concerned with. I tend to Agree With Robinski® that Sanderson's writing style is not particularly distinctive. His prose is good, of course, but I don't think it's what he sells books on. He's actually mentioned in some Writing Excuses episodes that his first drafts are not that great prose-wise and he does a lot of editing. Mary Robinette Kowal was surprised his first draft of the Shadow's Beneath submission was as good as it was (that was a funny podcast...). Personally, if I'm in the middle of writing something and finish one (reading) book and start to read another, I'll see bits and pieces of the other author's writing creep in as I write. It used to be a lot worse, but as I come closer to that million words, I find it easier to write in what will someday be my own style. So is a roundabout way, I think I agree with Sprout as well. I've seen both similar and distinct voices submit here. That said, I'll certainly agree with Arthur Dent that Sanderson's influence on the SciFi/Fantasy community is huge, and a big thanks to him and the administrators here for inspiring and creating this forum. It's improved my writing, and gives a great place to debate things like this!

I'd like to submit for next week. Hope everyone had a good new year!

Thanks both for the comments! I'm glad the sisters are becoming more comfortable for readers now. I struggle to make sure they are separate people, but it seems like that's getting easier as the story goes along. @ Juugatsu - thanks for the comments on the magic. Both of the "deceptions" you mention do get used later on in the book (I'm currently writing chapter so I'm glad you're seeing the possibilities already. Also sorry for breaking this up. This is the longest chapter in the book, so far, and goes over 5000 words. @ Sprouts - also thanks to you on the comments! Glad you could jump into it with little problem. I had someone else mention Zima's death was kind of convenient, so I'll need to edit that later. That and the description of the magic. I also agree about the knife wound. I'm trying to get the balance right between "wounded" and "too wounded to walk."

Overall, this was interesting, and kept me focused to the end. You have a good hook at the end of the chapter, so I'm ready to read the next chapter to find out what happens to Jack. There's some good worldbuilding here too, maybe on the edge of infodumping in lieu of Jack doing more interesting things, but it's alright for now. I wouldn't want every chapter to be like this. The only other complaint (and this ties into the above) is that Jack isn't very active here. He's tracking his prey, but he's already shot it, and just waiting for it to die, which gives him plenty of time to philosophize. Leading into my comment above. Again, it was okay for now. Just read your writeup above, and Jack getting taken to be sacrificed sounds more interesting than waiting for an animal to die. Looking forward to that part! A few other things: pg 1: 1200lb --This sounds like fantasy, so putting English/American weights in sounds odd. Also, usually numbers are written out. pg 2: "Jack sank to his knees." --This reads like he's really tired, but you haven't given a lot of evidence of that. Is he just waiting? pg 4: "Jack let caution fly on the wind, you didn’t stand and fight a bruskil that wanted to kill you." --I would think caution would be getting out of the way, so he's not really letting it fly.

All, Here is part 1 of chapter 4 of "Fruits of the Gods." Belili and Kisare are attempting to escape the plantation. If you haven't read any before and are completely confused, I'm happy to send out previous chapters. Otherwise, let me have it!

Sure. Happy Holidays!