Leyrann

Of course, it could theoratically be a complicating factor that Sel's magic is so location-based. Though I guess you could bring the Shardblade to Sel. That is, if you safely get there and back, considering there's a bit of an Investiture overload in the Cognitive Realm around there.

*cue nature documentary voice* And here, we see a Herald of Bad Jokes in his natural habitat.

You don't. The book needs to. There's a reason we're writing Identity with a capital, and that's not because it's something subjective. Either way, @Wandering Investor makes a good point that their Identity these days is likely "broken books", rather than "books with this text".

That is an argument I could get behind. Indeed, I could see the healing be related to the Spiritual aspect of someone/something wanting it to be the case, then being filtered through the Identity and then the Surgebinder only providing the Investiture itself, rather than actually initiating the healing. Maybe I'll delay the Surgebinding application of my theory until after Oathbringer because I think that by the end of Oathbringer (or even the end of the first part) we'll have confirmation over what can and what cannot be healed, so we know which is correct. I do not think memory is anything but an aspect of Identity, however. As the Feruchemical chart also shows, memory is a Cognitive ability, while things like Connection, Identity and Investiture (and Fortune but don't ask me how I should interpret that) are Spiritual in nature. Basically, I feel like "memory" is simply on a lower level, and is therefore too detailed to access, also because, while both Surges accessed by an Elsecaller heavily involve the Cognitive Realm, that doesn't mean you can simply 'read' anything in the Cognitive Realm, I would argue. Additionally, if our memories aren't perfect, then why would we assume a book's memory is perfect and cannot degrade over time? Anyways, I find this a hard question. I would say that Jasnah cannot access memories, but that's more of a gut feeling and I don't have anything solid to back it up.

According to this WoB, healing is the Spiritual saying "be like this" (note: I cut out the "I want to", as Progression seems to actually be a special kind of the 'standard' Stormlight healing that can also be used on other Identities, instead of only on oneself), and then the Cognitive saying "okay I'll try really hard to be like that, but I have a limit". Now, there are two important parts here. First, everything in the Cosmere has a self-awareness. That is why every bead in the Cognitive Realm can think stuff (even though it is often very basic). Second, the question is how much of what the books were is retained over time in their Identity, as Identity tends to slowly change depending on what is happening to things in the Physical or Spiritual Realms, even though consciousness counters that by trying to retain it's Identity. If the books still have intact Identity, then Progression can use that Identity to return them to their prior state. As for what you mentioned with Renarin constantly having to fix minor things, remember that doing stuff like this still requires Stormlight, and I could see it requiring wakefulness (as Feruchemy calls it), though I'm not certain about that. So even if you can theoratically fix everything, that doesn't mean that it's in any way practical. I don't know wheter or not the books can be restored, but I do think that we should be looking at Progression, and not at Transformation, as Transformation is about changing something into what the user wants it to be, and you can't "want it to be" an old book with things you don't know explained in it. EDIT: No, it wasn't. Doesn't mean the 10 Surges aren't confirmed by the powers of the Knights Radiant. Doesn't mean the 10 Voidbindings aren't confirmed by WoB. Doesn't mean the 10 gemstones aren't confirmed by the Ars Arcanum as well as what is daily being used. Doesn't mean the 10 outer Gas Giants aren't confirmed by WoB. And yes, I left out essences, but that's only because I don't know anything about essences myself. I suppose you could say they are also confirmed by the Ars Arcanum, but theoratically there would be a bit more wiggle room as they're much more abstract. Having said that, though, with all the other 10s being known to not be cultural, it's not much of a stretch to assume that last one that is always classified with the other ones isn't cultural either. And I wouldn't be surprised of some research would put the essences into "not possibly cultural" either.

Tyn isn't seemingly dead either. Which is good because I want to see more of her. Nevermind I messed up Tyn and Lyn.

We may not have WoB, but we do have theories that allow for the division that I mentioned as well as a working mechanism for the Surges acting the way they do. Though, this I'll admit, the part of that that I posted here on the forums is slightly outdated and does not yet divide the Surges into the groups, but it does use the mechanisms that, according to the theory, would divide them into three equal groups. On top of that, we do know for certain that Feruchemy and Allomancy can be divided into these groups, so it is not a stretch to assume that the Surges also work this way. And lastly, theories aren't about getting confirmed. They're about being able to explain everything we know. As long as they can do that, they can be considered valid, as soon as a counterexample is given, they can be considered incorrect. EDIT: Oh, and we actually do have a WoB that confirms that healing requires power in all Three Realms.

Okay, my wording was inexact. Basically, the Identity if what you want to change doesn't want to change, and you have to use enough Investiture to force it to change wheter it wants to or not.

The Surges very much are not a cultural thing. The 10 Orders of the Knights Radiant can all use 2 Surges, and they overlap one Surge each with the 'neighboring' Orders. Additionally, there is a symmetry to the Surges: Three are Physical, three are Cognitive, three are Spiritual, and the last works through all three the Realms, and if that wasn't enough, the Surges that belong to the same Realm are next to one another if you assume the order that is logical when knowing which Surges the different Orders of the KR can use. As for the essences, I have no idea. I'll probably go and see if I can figure that out sometime, though.

Why Skybreakers in particular? I'd argue that all Orders could fight pretty well.

This is very much what it felt like to me as well. The Radiants are thoroughly not impressed by them.

And this is why you should use Regrowth, and not Soulcasting. Soulcasting first needs to convince the Identity to be something and it then bceomes that thing, while Regrowth asks Identity what it's supposed to be and then goes ahead and fixes reality to be that way.

I've just posted an extensive theory about the nature of the Cosmere, and we also have an interesting WoB on the subject as well, confirming that healing is limited (but also enabled) by Identity. Basically, the Surgebinder pours in the Investiture required, then the Identity gives it's "healthy" form, what it's supposed to be like, and then the Investiture fixes the Physical form. As everything in the Cosmere has some sort of consciousness, and therefore a stable Identity (no consciousness means Identity fully depends on the forces of nature, but consciousness can influence Identity so that it stays the same), the books will probably still have their Identity of when they were intact, which means they can be repaired.

Introduction Recently, I have been attempting to use the L-Theory of Realmatic Strings to explain the Metallic Arts and Surgebinding. As I was working on that, however, I stumbled upon a deeper theory, that explains the nature and Identity of the Three Realms, and through that expands on the identity of the L bosons that are so central to L-Theory. Additionally, this theory creates the framework that, indeed, allows one to explain the Metallic Arts and Surgebinding. (and of course the other magic systems, but these two are my focus) According to L-Theory, the Cosmere is a stringed universe. Every particle is actually a string, and the Physical Realm is simply the endpoint of those strings. L-Theory then argues that the other endpoint of the particle strings is the Spiritual Realm, while the string itself is the Cognitive Realm. We also know, per WoB, that the original concept of the Three Realms comes from Platonic philosophy. This philosophy dictates, indeed, that apart from the Physical Realm, there is a seperate realm with consciousness, which in the Cosmere is called the Cognitive Realm, and a third realm with abstract truths, which is in the Cosmere called the Spiritual Realm. It should be noted that in the Cosmere, the Spiritual Realm is not as fixed as it was in Plato's philosophy, though it bears some resemblance. Note: As Calderis correctly pointed out, I went wrong with terminlogy in some places. I will fix this sometime soon (though probably after Oathbringer release), but roughly the mistakes are using uppercase Identity when it should simply be identity, while the actual uppercase Identity would be the consciousness from the strange loops that I talk about several times. This may not fully correct the issue, but it should fix the problem of "Identity as term is used wrong", while any details will be fixed once I get to it. Also, it should avoid people getting the wrong idea about what Identity is, like I had. Part I: Information and the three Identities While the Three Realms theory combined with string theory allows us to visualize both of them, we should not forget that, in it's core, strings are tidbits of information - and so are, really, the particles, consciousness and abstract truths of Plato's three realms. Now, first of all, strings, logically, defined by their endpoints; each of their endpoints is in a position, and the string is in between those positions. Additionally, the string itself contains the information that is contained in both endpoints, because if you know what the string is like, you know where it's endpoints are. Another clue to this information is given in another WoB, where we learn that there are no distances or places in the Spiritual Realm. Position is apparently intrinsically related to the Physical end. We also know from The Emperors Soul (which I admittedly hadn't yet read myself) that Connections, the relationships between particles, are related as intrinsically to the Spiritual Realm. And as we just established, the strings themselves contain all information their endpoints contain. This means that they contain the information to both the particle's position and it's relationship with other particles. Together, this information has a term that we already know - Identity. As for the endpoints, both in the Physical and the Spiritual Realm they are currently defined in relationship to an outside factor - for the Physical Realm their position, for the Spiritual Realm the particles they interact with. However, we can also define them from the Cognitive Realm, in which case the Physical Realm has part of the Identity of the particle, and the Spiritual Realm also has part of the Identity of the particle. This means that we recognize three difference Identities: Physical Identity (position), Cognitive Identity and Spiritual Identity (Connection). Or, a shorter notation, p-Identity, c-Identity and s-Identity. (the hyphen is required because otherwise the capital I looks like an L) Part II: Electromagnetic force and molecular bonding With the Identities of particles firmly established, let's have a thought experiment. We have two particles, each with their own Identity in all three Realms. L-Theory establishes that, the more similar two strings oscillate, the more similar their c-Identity is. Though L-Theory assumes this is related only to Connection, we know that this is a combination of both Connection (Spritual) and position (Physical). It stands to reason, that if there is a similarity between two oscillations, that they will influence one another, and attempt to become more similar. To achieve that, however, it has to change both it's p-Identity and it's s-Identity. This means that the particle starts moving - it has to change it's position and it's Connection. And as position and Connection change, the c-Identities become more and more similar, which means the particles start moving together faster and faster. Will it ever stop? Yes. As particles move closer and closer together in both their position and their Connection, they approach the point where their position and Connection are equal. At this point, their c-Identities obviously have to be equal as well, and that means that their p-Identity, c-Identity and s-Identity are all equal, and that they are exactly the same. Which means we're not talking about two particles, but rather about one particle. Considering that we started out with two particles, this would be a violation of the Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy. Apparently, there is a point beyond which particles do not want to get closer together anymore - a repelling force to counter the attracting force from their similarities. And thus, two things appear. A force that sometimes attracts, and sometimes repels - electromagnetic force. And a balance between the two, where attraction and repellation are in equilibrium - the molecular bond. Part III: Stacking Identities Though molecular bonds and electromagnetic force are intrinsically related to one another, they are not the same thing. Molecular bonds, I would argue, are related to position, and therefore p-Identity. Electromagnetic force, on the other hand, is related to the relationship between particles, and therefore s-Identity. And let's also have a look at those similar oscillations. As L-Theory posits, if two (or more) strings oscillate in a similar way (= have a similar c-Identity), a new Identity emerges out of their oscillations. Note the lack of prefix - this Identity has no equivalent in different Realms. Rather, it is the summation of the c-Identities that create it. Then, if another similar Identity is nearby, these can once again oscillate together, again forming a new Identity out of the summation of the old ones. This process allows more complex Identities to form, and on top of that allows the existence of sub-Identities. To continue in L-Theory for a moment, it posits 'strange loops' as the origin of consciousness: These strange loops connect an Identity to itself - but note that I am not using a capital letter. This is because these strange loops, like all strings, are part of the Cognitive Realm, and the connection is a literal connection. The oscillations in these strange loops are what causes an Identity to have consciousness. However, these oscillations, though they will in part be shaped by the Identity that they are connected to, are not fully shaped by those, like how c-Identity is shaped by p-Identity and s-Identity. Instead, they have a degree of self-awareness, and this allows the strange loops to, in turn, themselves influence Identity, though this is limited by the capabilities of the consciousness. This ability to influence grants the Identity stability, instead of having to change with whatever happens around it, but it also allows for something else. Part IV: The quantum of Investiture Now, this is where the quantum of Investiture comes in. As that WoB comfirms, there is a quantum of Investiture, which means that Investiture comes in particles that pack a certain amount of force (or energy). L-Theory calls these particles L bosons, so I will do so as well. As L-Theory also explains, L bosons are force carriers, and therefore some kind of gauge boson, and L-Theory then goes on to explain how L bosons can be directed by strange loops; this is Intent, which exists not only on Shard level, but on very small levels as well. Additionally, it also explains how strings can be shaped by L bosons, but here I believe L-Theory is a bit too specific. In Part III, we created a stack of Identities, where the highest Identity has a consciousness. We also established that this consciousness plays a part in shaping the Identity it belongs to. If an Identity changes, it stands to reason that it's sub-Identities change, which continues all the way to the c-Identity. And if you change the c-Identity, you change the p-Identity or s-Identity. And this is what an L boson does; it shapes the Identity you're working with, which may be done on different levels. You could influence Identities as a whole, but you could also go all the way down and instead influence the endpoints of strings, influencing p-Identities or s-Identities instead of directly the Identity itself. And this creates a distinction that allows a first classification of Investiture, namely the Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual variations, depending on which part of the strings you are influencing. Additionally, it also allows us to understand what the different kinds of Investiture affect: Physical Investiture affects molecular bonds and position. Cognitive Investiture affects Identities, consciousness and thoughts. Spiritual Investiture affects electromagnetic effects and relations between particles, also known as Connection. Lastly, there's Hybrid Investiture, which affects multiple kinds in one go. Part V: Capturing photons L-Theory theorizes that L bosons with null Intent are simply photons, and though this is close, we have seen it is not quite true. As most people probably know, photons are the quantum of electromagnetic force, and electromagnetic force, we have seen, is related to the interaction between particles and therefore Connection, which makes photons an effect caused by the nature of Realmatic Theory (and possibly manipulated by L bosons). Though this makes them intrinsically related to the structure of the Cosmere, the interaction between L bosons and photons is, in normal circumstances, in one direction only; a consciousness would be able to influence L bosons and, through that, influence photons, but photons would not interact with consciousness, while L-Theory is based on photons being L bosons, as otherwise they cannot be originally captured by a consciousness. In other words, this would invalidate L-Theory's proposed 'start' of everything, where Adonalsium was a man who found out how to manipulate photons. However, there is something we did not yet address. On one hand, strange loops do not actually have a position or a relationship to each other, as they do not exist in the Physical or Spiritual Realms, and therefore they do not have a p-Identity or s-Identity, though they do have a c-Identity from their existence in the Cognitive Realm. On the other hand, strange loops have self-awareness, and can therefore influence themselves. So what if it would influence itself to make its c-Identity exactly the same as a photon's c-Identity? This would not break the Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy, as the photon has p-Identity and s-Identity that is different from the (non-existing) p-Identity and s-Identity of the strange loop, but it would allow an oscillation between the strange loop and the photon. Next, the strange loop slightly changes, as it can be influenced with consciousness. The photon, attempting to keep the oscillating going, would change as well: And by this point, it's not a photon anymore. Rather, it's now an L boson. Some notes First of all, this theory is actually only the base of what I wanted to do, and has actually been created from the realization that Investiture can be divided into Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual types. I also very much want to give a shoutout to @skaa, as it is his L-Theory which actually gave me the starting point from which I was able to write this theory (I certainly wouldn't have thought of it otherwise). And I also promised @Alderant that I would tag him once I was finished. Edit: An additional note that is probably worthwhile, is that typically, someone who uses Investiture does not him/herself convert photons into L bosons. Rather, Shards make this change, and the magic as people use it already consists of L bosons from the start. (as for Elantris, with it's shattered shards that still have the power of the AonDor, there is either just an enormous reservoir (Shards are pretty powerful) or the remaining parts of the Shards may still be able to create new L bosons)

That's a much better summary than I'd have been able to give. Also, I think I'm almost done. Just gotta finish up explaining how all Investiture (in the Metallic Arts and Surgebinding) is related to the different Realms and then polish the post a bit and then it's good to go. Hope I can finish it this evening without being dead tomorrow.

It's kinda hard to explain, but I'll try. I'm actually giving a bit of a taste of the theory. The base of the theory is L-Theory, which posits a string theory-based Cosmere. The particles in the Physical Realm are an endpoint of snares; as with standard string theory. Meanwhile, the Spiritual Realm is made up of the other endpoints of the string, and the Cognitive Realm is made up of the strings themselves. In each of the three Realms, particles/strings relate to one another in a different way, which can be visualized as distance (though I actually got on track of this theory by a WoB specifically saying that there is no distance in the Spiritual Realm): The Spiritual Realm relates it's particles through Connection, the Cognitive Realm relates it's particles through Identity, and the Physical Realm relates it's particles through Energy (the energy required to cross the distance between the particles, to be precise). Now, Energy contains the information about the distance between particles and Connection contains information about the particles it interacts with. Identity is the combination of those; it contains both the information about the distance to other particles and the information about the particles it interacts with. If you were to change something in the Physical Realm (or Spiritual Realm, for that matter), that would mean that Identity would change as well. Now, consciousness doesn't come into this equation, but it's basically a complicating factor that can force Identity to be different from what it's supposed to be, which I will also address in my theory. EDIT: Oh, and I'll give you a link once it's ready. Will also add it to my signature, by the way.

(I also haven't yet read The Emperor's Soul, by the way) Okay. While writing a reply I actually got convinced that it isn't caused by Soulcasting. Soulcasting very much is a permanent change. However, it also changes the physical form of someone. Shallan, quite clearly, has not done this. In the theory I'm in the process of writing, I've established that Identity is created by a combination of the Spiritual (through Connection) and the Physical Realm. It is, however, also related to how a consciousness views itself, and if this view changes, so does Identity. However, if this consciousness is not imprinting it's view on the Identity, then the Identity is related only to what it is told to be by the Spiritual and Physical Realms, so it automatically swaps back to 'normal'.

To the first part (I have no idea how to split posts, sorry): I'm not convinced either way myself, I am merely proposing something that could be happening. I'm afraid that, without a deeper understanding of what is happening to Shallan's Identity (be it caused by magic or not), we cannot say for sure. That said, the magic goes deep. Right now, no joke, I am finishing up on a theory that derives the electromagnetic force from the Three Realms system. As for the Soulcasting being temporary, I assumed that, if this theory is correct, Shallan also Soulcasts herself back. This would actually give a way to test the theory, however, as, if the Soulcasting variant is correct, she'd be "stuck" being Veil if her Stormlight ran out, even though she'd look like Shallan. And yes, I'm working on Warbreaker. It's just... Ever since I got ahold of Realmatic Theory it's hard to spend my free time on anything else. Also, no worries, you don't come off as harsh to me.

I'm afraid I haven't finished Warbreaker yet.

I think, actually, that we should look for a Cosmere-related explanation for what has been happening to Shallan. I've recently been working on creating a theory in order to explain all different kinds of magic, and I think I have a reasonable idea what Transformation (Soulcasting) does on an elementary level. Basically, every single thing there is has an Identity (the bead in Shadesmar), and if you Soulcast, you pressure an Identity with Investiture until it budges and changes, and your Investiture additionally changes reality to fit that. Now, if this is indeed what Shallan has been doing to her own Identity, allowing her to so effectively become someone like Veil (seriously, you're not gonna be able to stab your own hand without screaming just because of some method acting), then it stands to reason, that every time she changes her Identity, that Identity is a little less clear. Every next time, the Investiture needed to convince the Identity to change is lower, until at some point the Identity doesn't know which one is 'real' anymore.

First of all, I want to very much thank you for that WoB, which answers a question regarding Investiture that I was about to start working on, but now don't need to anymore. (that question is related to Progression, by the way) For the rest, I was going to argue some stuff, but actually, I think you're pretty much right. Also, thinking about it actually solved some additional problems regarding what I was working on. Enough that I think I can post the theory tomorrow evening the latest... Oh this is gonna be a fun one.

Ooooh! Is that white chocolate in those cookies? *yummie* (also, great post you wrote. Again, shame I'm out of upvotes, but I might give this thread a special visit tomorrow)

No, it'll remain at 10, and she becomes the champion of Roshar. Then, she uses each of her personalities to defeat an Unmade for good, and then she uses all ten to defeat the champion.

I'm pretty sure that we're actually agreeing here, and that the Spiritweb is actually the same as Identity, just viewed in different ways. The question I want to pose to you is - how does the Investiture know what to fix? I think that it is Identity, and that Identity is how a person or thing views itself. Just like that, a Soulcaster also has to convince the Identity to change in order for anything to happen. On a semi-related note, I don't think that having access to the "ancient knowledge" will be enough to solve all problems. After all, in those ancient times each Desolation also almost wiped out humanity, and there are (at least according to some theories) reasons to assume that every next Desolation is worse. And it's also not like the people from the days of Urithiru were Cosmere-aware or somthing.

I believe that Progression works by making reality match Identity again, which would mean that, indeed, you would be able to fix it with Progression. Renarin has some work ahead of him...