Crylorenzo

Adolin shines all throughout WoR. I never would have predicted his arc in the book. Some fun stuff to look forward to.

Finally caught up reading about your reading! Very fun to follow along! You could have a Youtube channel with 2 minute video updates and I'd follow along, but the discussion here is also very fun.

Back to the title ideas, I've said this in other areas, but can't "H" replace any of the letters? HOW (like the once-title Highprince of War), KHW, KOH, HKOW, etc. If using this Vorin loophole allows Brandon to keep the symmetry (as opposed to going with a title that doesn't follow the pattern), I hope he uses it. It'd be really cool.

On the path to bondsmith could also mean the Nightwatcher from Cultivation, back to OP's original theory. While the Nightwatcher, the Sibling, and the Stormfather are the three we know of capable of forming a Nahel bond for bondsmiths, let's be honest, there's a lot we don't know about how these powers work. How did Ishar get them even before the Oathpact? Could bonds to other powerful spren such as Cusicech or one of the unmade do the same? We know so little. Brandon saying Gavilar was on the path to becoming a bondsmith could very well be smoke and mirrors.

"“Give it to me,” Gavilar said. “Now. I need it.” The Stormfather turned a shimmering head his direction. That was almost them. “What, those?” Gavilar said. “Those were almost the words? A demand?” So close. And so far." I've been considering these words for a while now because I believe they give one of the greatest hints as to who the "Stormfather" really is (no, I don't believe he's the Stormfather we know). Who do we know who is not necessarily concerned with Journey before destination, etc, but reacts instead to people who coming begging. Who need something with all their heart and passion? Who calculates and is playing the long game, setting things in motion for future pay off? Whose abilities and magic we have almost no information on? Yes, the more I think about it, the more I believe that it is not Ishar who has been manipulating things behind the scenes with Gavilar, but Cultivation herself. I believe that it is she who has set so many of the events we see in motion. Why, if the Chanarach theory is true, would Chana only now (if only now) get married, have children, etc.? Why would the Stone Shamans reject Szeth now? Why would Gavilar be receiving his "visions"? Taravangian his capacity and Lift her abilities? I don't know what her game is, but I think Cultivation is taking us for a loop here.

Especially because Harmony is at war with himself and War could be in harmony with himself.

Certainly the idea of combined intents has been set up somewhat in RoW, that being said, MB Spoilers Nevertheless, a theory duly noted and not without merit. If it happens, it will certainly have crazy effects down the line of the Cosmere Wars.

Some humans could perhaps move to Shadesmar, but the whole of Roshar? Doubtful. There's a lot of Roshar left to explore and some of the lowest areas are among those still to be explored. In my mind, there has been a lot of potential foreshadowing for everything else, but not much foreshadowing for a mass migration to Shadesmar. That's not to say there won't be changes to Shadesmar or even some people or more traders in Shadesmar, but I see Roshar as a whole as weathering the changes above and we seeing how they've weathered it after the time skip. But I could very well be wrong. I just don't see much foreshadowing for it like I do the rest of it.

I like all these predictions! 1,2,3, I've heard of and mostly agree with - I don't know about the Stormfather dying, per se, but something catastrophic indeed. Although, considering the death of Phendorana, that could be seen as foreshadowing of worse to come. 4 I hadn't heard of before, but the things you quote get me thinking about it. Not sure it's been enough foreshadowed just from the books we have yet, but I could see it more in books 6-10. That being said, book 5 could set it up more. And point 5 I've heard a number of people talk about and, honestly, this seems like the least plausible one, though I could see some humans doing so (though I'm still unsure of that). I like your reasoning as to why it would work though, with more water in the physical realm making more land in the cognitive - I like it.

I like this approach to thinking about Kal and I have a thematic theory to add: What is one major reveal near the end of the Way of Kings - that Kaladin had the chance to have a Shardblade, but rejected it. One major theme of Kaladin's is learning to give up power - giving up revenge, giving up the need to protect everyone, learning to let others take care of themselves. I think that Kaladin has been foreshadowed as being Connected to Honor and I believe the chance to become Honor will be offered him, but then he will, in the name of the greater good, give it up. Sound familiar? MB Major Spoilers Brandon loves to explore opposite choices and opposite consequences: Elantris and Warbreaker Minor Spoilers There are more examples of this in Brandon's writing and I could easily see in Kaladin the idea of "What if beginning to take up Honor, but instead Dispersing it for the greater good was actually a good thing?" This would fit Kaladin thematically, leave room for him to become a cognitive shadow and, at the same time, fulfill Kaladin's arc quite nicely I think.

That would be incredible - please do!

A while ago it was discovered that the continent of Roshar exactly matches a 3d slice of a 4d Julia set. For those who didn't know, go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_set and watch the video until you see Roshar. Now, I am not familiar enough with advanced maths myself to do this, but I imagine there is an equation for each Julia set and I was wondering if anyone would know if there's any way with the information we now know about the pure tones of Roshar to make even a guess at the equation for Roshar. I also know that if you type in Julia sets and music into google there's a scholarly article about how Julia sets can create musical pieces (think the rhythms of each shard, maybe?). I'm sure cymatics connects with all this too. Whatever you know or whatever you theorize (or whatever posts that have come up about this before) I'd love to hear it!

I love all the ideas so far - I agree that a few after being made Truthless is likely. I wouldn't be surprised if the flashback sequence is set up a little bit like Kaladin's in that we may get some important parts out of order slightly only to pop up during a climax moment (similar to Kaladin and Tien's death) where he then in the present declares he is Truth (no longer Truthless) or something like that. I'm also curious about Szeth's time with Liss, mainly because I wonder, along with others, whether or not she is a Herald.

While I might agree that this is true long term - I can't say this guarantees Book 5 safety, only by Book 10 safety, if that makes any sense. In a similar vein, I doubt

Very true - Bondsmiths are absolutely terrifying. I've seen a number of theories that Dalinar will mess up the Stormfather/Highstorms somehow to bring in the Night of Sorrows. We still don't really know where some of Dalinar's warm visions have come from, but they've been Nohadon-related and he was also a Bondsmith (I think so at least).

This is definitely a great idea and one I could get behind (though I still think Ash is likely to be a Dustbringer. Either way, I have wondered if forming a Nahel bond is one thing a cognitive shadow can do to maintain their sanity. Nale is bad, but not nearly as bad as Ishar or Jezrien. If both Ash and Taln form Nahel bonds to help their sanity, it could make a lot of sense.

I liked FM here though I agree she's less political than before, but the change is also somewhat understandable based on the circumstances. The romance was cute - I've always liked Rig as a character, so was nice to see things go his way. Jorgen had good growth moments. Arturo had a great Adolin/Oathbringer moment. The slugs were awesome and I wish we saw EVEN more with them, especially Boomslug - reminds me of the air blades from Defending Elysium. This felt like the magic exploration part of the world. Agreed that the ending felt a little abrupt - Sunreach itself feels like an odd title because it felt like such a small part of the actual novella - if anything I would have liked a little more lingering on that area of the novella. Overall a welcome addition to the story - looking forward to seeing the Spensa Jorgen scene from Spensa's perspective in the novel.

Odium and Devotion being opposites is certainly a longshot, but I don't think Preservation and Ruin being opposites is a stretch at all, or, at least, the details of them match our current knowledge of a light and its opposite: when Vin is spiked, the mists are repelled by her, Ettmetal is highly volatile and it takes very little for it to explode, and while Harmony's current vessel knows how to put them together in harmony, it seems apparent that they could just as easily be Discord, which fits the description of an anti-light as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a very unique circumstance. Being so long together, it could be that their Rhythms synced up even while opposites. Though, as others have said, it could be that it's not the case either and I wouldn't be surprised by that either. It's just an idea and one that has some evidence in favor.

From the WoB that Devotion is Love, could Devotion actually be Odium's opposite like Ruin and Preservation were opposites? I'd imagines there was or is ruinlight and preservationlight that would be each other's opposities. Right now we say voidlight and anti-voidlight, but could it just be voidlight and devotionlight (lovelight)?

I could have sworn there was a mention of Radiant in Shardplate during the Battle of Thaylen Field, perhaps when she first summons the personas and illusion army? But right now for the first 3 books I have to rely on audible since my hard copies are in storage due to a temporary move so I must rely on you for the close reading. If there is no reference in the whole battle of Radiant wearing Shardplate, I stand corrected. That plus the WoB that Shallan was ahead of Kaladin in oaths by the end of WoR are the only hints I have towards her already having Shardplate. As for the blades, I loved reading through the post you referenced - very detailed. They agreed with me that the chasm-blade seems like it might be Pattern, but as you say the two descriptions are not mutually exclusive and it is not 100% guarantee. I also like your connection to the summoning of Pattern during dueling in Oathbringer. I do wonder if the Oathgate activation wasn't Pattern, only because thusfar Shardblades from deadeyes have not been able to activate Oathgates, although Shallan's case of being the original Radiant and her broken bond being odd/possible-not-fully-broken does make it weird, so it could be Testament as you say. Thanks for the info!

At Chapter 83 in my RoW re-read and Venli was contemplating the love she used to feel and how the tone of Cultivation used to be important to her people. She reflects on how the original listeners had left because they "rejected the conflict. Holding to family, singing to Love despite their dull forms, they'd left the war and gone a new way." This becomes the exact moment when Cultivation's tone and Odium's tone snap together in Harmony in her mind. The next word is Freedom. So my question is - what do you think the name for Cultivation and Odium's light together is? The excerpts I mentioned give a few possibilities: The Rhythm of Freedom - this fits nicely with the theme of the Listeners and it mentioned as a single word right after the experience. But does it reflect a passion for change? Or a change in passion? I feel like this is perhaps missing something, but I think it is the most likely so far. The Rhythm of Love - Love was capitalized in the excerpt leading up to the harmonizing and it is the part of herself that Venli had previously felt she had lost and was coming back to. This fits both the ideas of a passion for change or a change in passion in my mind. It sounds a little sappy and like Brandon listened for too long to the Plain White T's song, but I could get behind it. The Rhythm of Peace - But wait you might say, isn't this the Rhythm that the Listeners use all the time to check the time? It is and it is referenced so often that it could very well be one of those hidden in plain sight allusions that Brandon does so well. The Listeners initially rejected conflict - a passion to change and a change in passion from the war that was before. I think this is a stretch, but I still like it. Any other ideas for the meaning behind the Rhythm of Cultivation and Odium? As a sidenote - is there a different name other than Towerlight for Honor and Cultivation? Rhythm of the Tower doesn't seem like a great name for a Rhythm to me.

I say that Kaladin used Patternblade in the chasms for a few reasons, but the main one is this: If you check the descriptions of the blades - the description of the one used against Tyn is very different from the one used in the chasms, but the one used in the chasms fits the description of the later blade she more regularly uses. As for Shallan and Shardplate at Thaylen Field, yes she created many illusions, but, the one that was really Shallan, as confirmed by Jasnah, was the one who looked like Radiant in very real Shardplate. The other two "Shallans" puffed away when Jasnah tried to touch them. In addition, I'm supported in this idea by the WoB that says "By the end of WoR, Shallan was a step higher than Kaladin." Kaladin was at the 3rd Ideal, therefore Shallan was at the 4th. I could be wrong, but the details seem clear to me at this stage.

Shallan, as others have mentioned, has some really weird stuff going on. The number 1 weird thing is that Shallan has two blades and 2 sets of oaths going on and we don't always know which oaths pertain to which Spren. Here's some things we do know: -Shallan at least had the 3rd oath with Testament when she was young -Pattern didn't show up until Kharbranth -Testamentblade is the one to kill Tyn -Patternblade is the one to Kaladin uses in the chasms and the one used to open the Oathgates on the Shattered Plains after Shallan. -At the Battle of Thaylen Field, she has Shardplate, though it is not glowing like we now know live plate glows. This could be because it is dead plate (unlikely, I think, but we don't know how it works with dead-eyes and still living Radiants) -Something is wrong with Shallan's Soulcasting Ability This leads me to believe either Shallan was at the 4th ideal at a young age with Testament or somehow has progressed Testament to the 4th ideal since somehow (we don't know all the rules here) or is at the 4th Ideal by the end of Words of Radiance with Pattern (this fits along with the WoB that says that Shallan was ahead of Kaladin on oaths by the end of WoR, but that could also just be because she has 2 blades.). My personal vote is the last one. So yeah, it's messy, but to answer the original question it still seems to fit the pattern of 3rd oath, blade, 4th oath, Plate.

I'd forgotten that - thanks for reminding me! A shame it didn't become or last as a basic right.

Perhaps this has been discussed at length already, but I wanted to see if I could break down the incident where Dalinar touches Nale and sees into his history. First off, unless I am mistaken, the flashbacks that Dalinar sees are seen in reverse to when they happened. The alternative, for me, is that the flashbacks are out of order like deathrattles, but I don't see the point of that and the reverse chronology makes sense. "Dalinar saw Nale stepping away from a discarded Blade rammed into the stone" This sounds like Aharietiam and I believe is the clue given that these events are going to progress backward. There is no other time I can think of that Nale would discard Blade, capital B. Nale cradling a child in one arm, his Blade out as dark forces crawled across a ridge nearby Immediately this makes me think of the child deathrattle and it makes me wonder if we will see Nale again next book in a similar circumstance. There must be some significance here or it wouldn't be here. Did he save someone significant that we will hear about later? Perhaps someone important to Aharietiam? The minimum is that it shows Nale used to protect against the "dark forces". Nale standing with a group of scholars and unrolling a large writ, filled with writing. "The law cannot be moral," Nale said to them. "But you can be moral as you create laws. Ever must you protect the weakest, those most likely to be taken advantage of. Institute a right of movement, so that a family who feels their lord is unrighteous can leave his area. Then tie a lord's authority to people who follow him." Great snippit here showing how Nale used to be - a believer in laws, but with a focus on morality and protection of those weakest. Depending on who these scholars were, perhaps we can, have, or will see this system of rule somewhere? Sounds like a pretty good system to me. Note that this one is made after the next one (bonding a highspren) and so it might be at or around the time Nale swore the 5th ideal. I find it unlikely he swore the 5th ideal after Aharietiam. This is the first place we can see the humongous contrast between Past-Nale and current Nale - here morality is fundamental to law and protection at its core. With Nale being so moral and protection minded, the fifth ideal "I am the Law" gains new meaning and might have relevance for book 5 and Szeth (who it wouldn't surprise me to see swear the 5th ideal, but that's another topic). Nale kneeling before a highspren A reminder here from Brandon that Nale is a skybreaker in addition to being a Herald - this is clearly a thread not to forget. Nale fighting on a battlefield... Another fight... Another fight... Then endless desolations which come with more and more frequency towards Aharietiam, though these fights are probably pretty far from Aharietiam, time-wise. Nale clasping hands with a bearded Alethi man, regal and wise. [Jezerezeh]... "I will take this charge," Nale said softly. "With honor." "Do not consider it an honor," Jezerezeh said. "A duty, yes, but not an honor." "I understand, though I did not expect you would come to an enemy with this offer." "An enemy, yes," Jezerezeh said. "But an enemy who was correct all along, making me a villain, not you. We will fix what we've broken. Ishar and I agreed. There is no person we would welcome more eagerly into this pact than you. You are the single most honorable man I have ever had the privilege of opposing." "I wish that were true," Nale said. "But I will serve the best I can." There's a lot to unpack here, but I think the first thing we can all agree on is that this conversation happens right before the formation of the Oathpact, placing this at the beginning of the struggle between the singers and the humans. Oddities of word choice abound. First off, it is clear that Nale is honorable - is this therefore after Honor sided with the humans, or did Honor side with the humans AFTER/IN CONJUNCTION WITH the creation of the Oathpact? After all, Ishar had bondsmith powers well before the exodus from Ashyn and Ishar is the one who made the Oathpact. There is a discussion of enemies and villains and fixing what was broken. This is all laden with implications we can only guess at. So let's guess at them. If I remember correctly, all the heralds save Taln were royalty of some form or another, meaning Nale was likely a king at the beginning - whether starting on Ashyn or while staying in the Shin Valley where the humans first resided. So were he and Jezrian battle opponents (and if so was their war part of what broke Ashyn or part of what started the conflict on Roshar?) or were they political opponents - two sides of an argument. I think the latter is more likely as it leads directly into the fact that whatever the contention, Jezrian here admits wrong and the need to fix what was broken (is there any connection here to The Girl Who Looked Up?). Nale, it seems was always a little more aligned with actions that wouldn't upset or disrupt the singers and Jezrian, not. Little wonder the Fused killed Jezrian first if he was the start of it all. --- That's what I've gleaned from these passages. I imagine by book 10 we'll have seen in more detail each of these events as they will supposedly dive more into the heralds. Please let me know if I missed a clue or got something wrong (or something right). I'd love for more people to add if I've missed any connections that'll let us tease out details of the early history of Roshar.