Crylorenzo

I saw this on reddit so I can't take credit for it, but there's more to Wit's wordplay. It's not ONLY that the first and last words of his triads end with the same letter, but ALSO that the ending sound to the middle word in the triad is the 2nd to last sound in the 3rd word of the triad. “Long as a soulless star slumbers” - s / r / rs “Long as a rat rends rust” - t / s / st “Somehow stress said symphonion sounds.” - s / d / n / nds (this one goes an extra step) “Inappropriately involved. Indeedy.” - y / d / dy “... poised, ... ploy; ... paranoid.” - d / y / id (with y and i making the same sound) Again, I am merely reporting what I have read on reddit - I would like the post which explains it better than me, but I can't remember who or when or which subreddit it was.

I agree - although the spren have these perfect gemstone reserves, which do hold the mist form of Honor's investiture, I don't see the spren as the ones who did the majority of the collecting - it had to be the other secret societies on Roshar. I keep mentioning the Ghostbloods as being the primary gathering and I've now thought of another reason - at its head is someone who knows just how important it can be to horde parts of a god.

Maybe it's similar to other cognitive entities - they view themselves as a whole now and so they stay together for that reason? There are a lot of oddities about how few shardblades and shardplates there are considering how many there should be, so maybe not all shardplates DID stay together.

Since this is my reread I’d forgotten about the gemstone reserve. But as you say, how did it get there? Jasnah send to think it’s someone whose been around for hundreds of years, which could imply the Ghostbloods. Another possibility just occurred to me and that is the Heralds. Kelek lives in Lasting Integrity and the Heralds as a whole are pretty cosmere aware and are similarly looking to figure out how to get investiture off-world. And now I’m curious if there’s a connection back to Gavilar.

Another simple theory as I reread ROW. Adolin mentions how Jasnah is troubled by the lack of perfect gemstones in circulation - how some should naturally come up and yet almost all gemstones in circulation are flawed except for some in the Thaylen reserve. Who could be the one causing the more perfect ones to disappear? Well this topic is brought up as Adolin is pondering how to get Stormlight further in Shadesmar and who do we know who wants to transport large amounts of Stormlight long distances? Obviously the Ghostbloods. A simple theory, see? Or have I been thrown off somewhere? Also, if it is the Ghosrbloods as I suspect, are they just sitting on a wealth of Stormlight or are they doing things with it (and if so what)? I’m guessing we won’t get another moment like in Mistborn, but I could see such a wealth of Stormlight being a pivotal plot moment in Shallan’s story in book 5 as the Ghostblood plot is wrapped up.

This is a simple theory that probably doesn't affect much, but I want to discuss why I think Shardplates act so different from Shardblades Shardplate, as described by Syl in her interlude, feels contentment, not pain. In contrast, Shardblades scream to Radiants. Shardplate, as we see in Adolin's chapters in Rhythm of War, does not travel to Shadesmar - it doesn't even have a Shadesmar counterpart like Shardblades do. Why are these two points so? Well, I think the puzzle pieces have finally come together. We know that a defining feature of spren is that they are different between the cognitive realm and the physical realm. The sapient spren form bonds in part to be able to manifest in the physical realm and even then, only a portion of themselves makes the transfer - they have full bodies in Shadesmar and partial selves show up in the Physical realm. EXCEPT when they become a shardblade they DO become more physical, able to interact with the physical realm in a much greater way than before. This is possible through the Nahel Bond increasing through advanced oaths. We learn from Ishar's experiments that when the sapient sprens are forced over to the physical realm without a bond and as their full selves, they do not last - they die - I imagine that is really painful. They become corpses. Coincidentally, shardblades are also referred to by other spren as corpses. Here I get to the first part of my theory: Shardblades scream because sapient spren die in the physical realm without a bond. Shardblades are continually in the act of dying. They are cognitive entities forced to be physical without the protections of the Nahel Bond. Next, why does the same not occur with Shardplate? We learn at the end of Rhythm of War that Shardplate is made of physical realm spren coming together to make Shardplate. For instance, windspren are very rare in Shadesmar but are relatively plentiful in the Physical realm. They are content in the Physical realm and don't really need to be in the Cognitive realm. Although we have seen creationspren (the likely candidate for Lightweaver Shardplate), for instance, in Shadesmar, my guess is that they too are more common in the Physical Realm. I don't know if this is the case for all lesser spren, or only for the ones deemed "cousins". Therefore, Shardplate, being made of lesser spren that are more common in the Physical realm, are not in pain because their spren are more natural in the physical realm. Physical Spren? This is also why they do not travel to Shadesmar - they are more physical in nature and going to the cognitive realm is less natural for them. Tell me what you think - if there's anything I've missed either for or against this idea. The last unexplored area is Soulcasters that seem to be a sapient spren meditating? to form a soulcaster in the physical realm similar to an Oathgate. Or something.

Thanks! I'd forgotten that Akinah was one of the ones that Kabsal had mentioned!

I've read before that some of the cities on Roshar might seem to have Aons in their layout, such as Thaylen City (though this is unsure and could just be cymatics). Upon my re-read of Dawnshard, Lopen is surveying the city of Akinah from above and notices that it looks like "a flower with radiating petals" and "groups of [the houses] formed the 'tips' of the flower petals.". I checked coppermind for Aons and immediately one fit the description: Aon Aan, which stands for Truth or Fact, a curious choice for a place so shrouded in secrets. https://coppermind.net/w/images/Aon_Aan.svg Though it could just be coincidence, I thought this was a cool connection if it is the case. What do you think? Also, do you know of any other cities that might have aon connections?

I was unsure if this belongs here or in Cosmere, but the topic really is more related to the Stormlight Archive though this post will include speculation based off of Warbreaker, which I believe I've heard said is a type of prologue to the Stormlight Archive. In my re-read of the Stormlight Archive, I got back to the scene in Oathbringer where Gavilar is being soulcast to stone and, with the knowledge of there being a hall of stone Radiants in Urithiru from Rhythm of War, it made me wonder if there was a purpose to the practice - a reason passed down beyond mere legacy. We know from Warbreaker that soldiers in stone can be caused to fight again, made Lifeless through the course of a single breath. This is similarly set-up in the Stormlight Archive under a different name - Thunderclasts. The first part of my speculation is that before the end of the Stormlight Archive, though not necessarily by the next book, we'll see phantom armies play a role again - the equivalent of one breath is relatively easy to find on Roshar thanks to the Highstorm and so with the right information and intent it wouldn't be hard to see a stone Teft (and others) in action again. I wonder if, perhaps, trying to set this up could be where Zahel went during the invasion of Urithiru (we know he was somewhere and that Brandon almost wrote him in, but just couldn't make it work). The 2nd part of my speculation involves Gavilar specifically, though I am by no means asserting this will happen. In Warbreaker, Clod/Arsteel as a lifeless mostly acts only as he is instructed. EXCEPT there is a moment when he protects Vivenna in the slum riot where it seems that a little more of Arsteel pokes through and I've read that Jewels offscreen goes to Yesteel to try to awaken more of Arsteel in Clod. We've seen with characters such as Thaidakar (to use the Stormlight name) that a cognitive shadow can staple itself to the physical realm; it would seem in the example of Clod/Arsteel there is a way to staple or bring back the cognitive to an otherwise Lifeless physical entity. All that to say, during Gavilar's funeral there was a lot of talk about the three realms and eternal wars and it made me wonder if Gavilar might one day come back (or have planned for himself to come back) as a Lifeless and if he (or others) would also have their cognitive self brought back somehow (even easier I'm sure if it's still lingering around like the fused with the thunderclasts). This seems more likely to happen in the back 5 books, but there's some set-up for it already so I thought I would speculate. My apologies if this was a bit rambling - please let me know if I've forgotten anything that could support (or counter) this line of thinking. One issue I already know of it the lack of ichor alcohol, but perhaps there is a workaround here since we (I) know very little about the nature of ichor alcohol. tl;dr - I think the stone radiants and others will later play a role as Lifeless soldiers or equivalent like Thunderclasts, but for good. If Gavilar's cognitive self is still around, perhaps it could come back to his stone statue and reappear that way.

Not sure if anyone already talked about this since this was said almost a week ago now, but in the most recent Q&A with the Dusty Wheel show, there was a question about time dilation and investiture: ------------ Jeremy If vast amounts of Investiture can distort time in a similar manner as a black hole, [...] does that include Shards? Would time dilation be greater on Roshar than on Nalthis? Brandon Sanderson No, because the Shard is contained almost entirely in the Spiritual Realm. In the Spiritual Realm, time and distance have no meaning. So, what this means is: Large piles of Investiture that somehow make it into the Cognitive Realm or the Physical Realm are going to cause time dilation, but the Spiritual Realm—where it belongs—it's not going to do that. That's gonna make some exclamation points raise above the heads of some people. The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021) ------------ I think it's clear that the "exclamation point" has to do with the Dor on Sel and how, after the shattering of Dominion and Devotion their investiture was trapped in the Selish Cognitive realm creating, as we've known for a bit, some odd things about Shadesmar there and making it a dangerous place to be. Knowing that Brandon likes to use science to a certain extent, what possible effects could time dilation have on the cognitive realm of Sel - is that what makes it dangerous or is it that in combination with raw investiture just flying around? Is there anything else we know about the cognitive realm on Sel that this information helps?

I believe so. It's always seemed that way to me, that it was a separate thing from normal lashings and only shared a name because Windrunners wanted it to be consistent.

I can't remember exactly if the Sleepless was the same as the SoH spy, so I'll mention both up above. As for the contest of Champions, I suppose saying that it is THE climax would be technically incorrect - I'm honestly expecting the KoW Book 5 to be one giant climax sort of like HoA was. That being said, while I agree that the contest won't be quite what we expected, I doubt with such monumental set-up over all previous 4 books if it wasn't part of the main climax. If you've watched his class he talked this last year about how in Oathbringer the initial Shadesmar sequence didn't land the way he thought it would at first because his audience had been led to believe that they were seeking out Cultivation's perpendicularity, not go off to Thaylenah and so the whole sequence felt really off and unenjoyable to his beta-readers because there was no hinting at a different goal. In my mind, unless you've seen evidence of a different conclusion being pointed towards, I feel like the contest of Champions will have to be that conclusion. How it will work and what exactly its outcome will actually mean I don't know, but I would be very surprised in Brandon, after working so hard to hype up the contest for 4 books would minimize or trivialize it in Book 5 just to subvert expectations. I think he fully intends to fulfill expectations, though perhaps more in a "you want a car; I've promised you a car; you really need this car, finally in 10 days you'll have this car; OH MY GOSH IT'S A LAMBORGHINI WITH WINGS AND A ROCKET LAUNCHER!" sort of fulfilling expectations. I'll note the possibility though. Good point - Book 5 prologue should fit this bill.

I agree - I expect Dalinar to lose and die and thereby become a major Cosmere player along with Odium, but always chomping at the bit so to speak. It'll set up good conflict in 6-10. Agreed. I'll add it. I like this thought and wouldn't be surprised by it because Master Sanderson. That being said, I feel like he will actually manage 10 days into the entire thing (with a denouement after the 10 days of course). Why? In part because Master Sanderson, in part because we also know Brandon likes to try new things with his writing and push the envelope. It's not like there isn't a lot that could be covered in 10 days with all that is happening, but I do agree that the ending itself will be more than the contest - it has to be, otherwise the only events to matter would be the ones directly affecting the champion whereas we can see that there are many more plot points dangling.

I'll add this to the likely section - it would make sense to me.

Thanks! I'll add it!

I believe this will be the case largely because 1. RoW sets us up for, if not a permanent, then at least a temporary conclusion to the hostilities where either way the war ends 2. While the series is a 10 book series, it is also purposefully split into two sets of 5 with a time skip in between the two sets (Coppermind has it as a "a time gap of about five to ten years between the two arcs). Even if the only conclusion is a temporary solution, some conclusion will happen. 3. The next set of 5 WILL likely have different focus characters - the flashback characters will be Lift, Renarin, Shalash, Taln, and Jasnah and while he could write long detailed flashbacks about side characters, I highly doubt it. 4. RoW sets up for us, in my opinion, the conflict of Books 6-10 with Toadium stuck on Roshar, but still preparing for a larger conflict and trying to send people offworld. 5. We'll be waiting a while for the next set of 5 since, at a minimum Mistborn Era 3 (1980s) and Elantris sequels. I think Nightblood will possibly come out first too, thought Coppermind says it may come out after Book 6. It's not like Brandon to leave us hanging without some resolution. All that to say that I think a number of the main conflicts will be resolved without Odium the shard being resolved until Book 10 (yes, Rayse is dead, but we just got a worse one).

What a book Rhythm of War is, but for all the loose threads it ties, there are a number left dangling for book 5. We know that Brandon outlined the two books together and so has a clear reason why he included each plot and its consequence in Book 4. Here I'm trying to compile (please help add or correct me where you think I'm wrong) what we can be sure will DEFINITELY be resolved, LIKELY be resolved, and things that are good questions but are UNLIKELY to be resolved (because they are either for 6-10 or for other books). To Be DEFINITELY Resolved In Book 5 In the main plot arc Gavilar's Prologue and his true intentions There are 10 Days left for the contest, will they be filled with war? Or are the Fused okay with peace until then? - First and foremost, Book 5 will have to quickly help us understand why anything else is important other than the Contest of Champions in 10 days. - I feel like it's safe to say that some if not all of our main characters in the first 5 will have character arcs. Sanderson likes his books to have strong character drives and motivations, so how what is left for our cast to learn in order to grow? What are their next ideals and can they make it? We will see Warlight, Towerlight, Anti-Light and possibly other lights meaningfully in use. We just had an entire book about these, how will they actually impact the story? We will almost definitely see both more Radiants and more spren deaths as well as Fused deaths due to the Anti-Light Taravangian will figure out a Champion to pick Some names I have thought of/seen tossed around Moash - Human with a grudge - a predictable pick, but also a boring one (unless more is revealed) Gavinor somehow tricked - I've heard many reference the Death Rattle about a child crying with a knife to their throat and how it's dishonorable to kill a child Hoid with memories altered - Random thought I had after the epilogue, very very unlikely, but definitely a surprise pick The Contest of Champions will happen after 10 days We know it is not JUST a fight Who will be the protagonist champion will be resolved for good - we currently are led to believe Dalinar, but Kaladin will always be an option. Szeth is also a sleeper potential. Dalinar Win? Toadium Win? Tie? Depending on Cognitive Shadow Memory, The Oathpact, Cultivation, Taravangian's actual plans, Loopholes, I could see any of these having a satisfactory ending Meanwhile… Shallan will have a "war" with the Ghostbloods - Ba-Ado-Mishram will be found and released Dalinar, Kaladin, Szeth will go to Shinovar We'll discover what Szeth means by the "Cleansing Of Shinovar" Kaladin will discover a way to heal Ishar Dalinar will improve his Bondsmith Powers We'll learn Szeth's backstory What did he see coming and how will this add to the narrative? Oathpact Resolved/Restored We'll learn more about the current Listeners How are they working with the Chasmfiends? El will be someone important. A Satisfying Conclusion will happen because Brandon Sanderson (note: some feel like this may not be the Contest, but aren't sure what it might be) Protagonists win! Protagonists lose, but Oathpact! Protagonists lose, but Dalinar still awesome / can’t be turned bad / Cognitive Shadow stuff and/or other meaningful things happen to make it satisfying Tie, but Oathpact! Tie, but Cultivation/Taravangian! Tie, but war resolved in different way. Either way, I think it's safe to say that Books 1-5 will conclude the wars as we currently know them. LIKELY places to show progress True Cause Of The Recreance Sja-Anat & The Unmade’s loyalties/effects Lifelight x Voidlight (Especially now with Cultivation & Todium in league?), All 3 Light? Their Anti-Lights? How a cognitive shadow and the like can persist without going crazy - Kelek, Ishar, Nale, Hoid, Thaidakar, Fused, Dalinar if he loses Finding out how Cognitive Shadows get offworld. People are going to die, possibly main characters The Importance of Urithiru now being bonded Adolin and the true nature of the Recreance Renarin and Rlain getting better at foreseeing the future/tricking the Gods. Ishar's Tukari attacking Lasting Integrity. Horneaters and Cultivation's Perpendicularity Wit’s flute is going be part of some minor plot point in book 5 We'll learn more about the Sleepless We'll learn about the SoH spy (was it the Sleepless listening in on Wit?) Dalinar's unusual visions of Nohadon and impressions of warmth and light will be explained Unlikely To Be Resolved / Might Show Minor Progress If Any Hoid vs Odium/Toadium Hoid wanting help from other shards/Harmony (The Letters) Herald Origins Dawnshards Dawnsingers How the war started in the first place Ashyn & Braize Lighthouse prophecy - people sailing from across the ocean ----------------------------------------- What have I missed? What have I overestimated/underestimated the importance of? Are there any clear Character Arcs set up (I wasn't sure about this one)?

Maybe a merging of cognitive shadows? Oaths that make so they can't harm each other like Hoid can't be harmed by certain people?

Maybe he's one of Sixteen? Like Whimsy? Sure seemed whimsical to me. Either that or he really is a Shin and we'll hear more next book.

Thanks for the reply. Perhaps my post came off as sounding too strongly worded? If you feel this is nit-picking or arbitrary, my apologies. I see you area Theory Collector and so probably have a lot more practice in this than me, but I'm honestly trying to look at the information given and predict what is coming (and would love any help offered as to why or why not what I'm looking at makes sense or not). For me, if this self-proclaimed wild theory were true, it could give me some areas I could predict for Radiants in future books (we have 10 books and I know that Sanderson usually uses magic reveals that make perfect sense but that we don't always anticipate for great effect, so I am assuming the more intricate uses of the magic to be revealed over time), and thereby be useful. That being said, I didn't intend to use the word theory here in the scientific sense - a model that had been tried and tested and currently stands up to scrutiny. If anything, I posted it here in this forum FOR scrutiny. If you feel like I am pulling at straws and the connections I see are false, like the idea Asha'man pointed out about cracks in the spiritweb related to half-diffused gemstones, I'd love to hear it since that keeps the discussion going. Thanks!

Thanks for the response! I had forgotten that WoB so thanks for the input. I thought the same way you did. I'm probably wrong (and we'll probably find out by how much in RoW), but it seemed like many of the ideas that Navani had said regarding fabrials could also have some relevance to Radiants.

While reading over some of the other threads about Radiants, higher ideals, and shardplate and how the connection to the spren increases, a wild theory developed in my mind that could very well be answered in Rhythm of War since it is Fabrial heavy and because there is still a lot of mystery surrounding Soulcasters and other fabrials that replicate Surges. Are Radiants just more advanced Fabrials? I postulate that Radiants are sentient Fabrials Hear me out. Some of these may be stretches, but I don't believe all of them are. Radiants form a Nahel Bond with a type of sentient spren because they begin to embody something that the spren loves. In order to create a Fabrial, you must attract it with something it loves. Higher ideal Radiants get Shardplate, which is metal, likely of a God kind like Shardblades (or at least I've heard others theorize such) Fabrials themselves require cages and different metals produce different effects. Radiants must be "broken" or have cracks in their spiritweb in order to form a Nahel Bond. In order to trap a spren in a fabrial, "The gemstone must not be fully infused, but also cannot be fully dun." When a Radiant swears a higher ideal (which I imagine to be letting the Nahel Bond further into the spiritweb), it is accompanied by a burst of Stormlight, which I believe comes straight from the Spiritual realm of the Radiant's Spiritweb due to the pressure differential. With Fabrials, if the Stormlight is withdrawn quickly enough the spren is drawn in due to the "pressure differential, created by the sudden withdrawal of Stormlight" Radiants can't hold onto Stormlight, though the higher the ideal the more efficient the use of their Stormlight, yet the Spren doesn't break away so long as the ideals are kept. In Fabrials "All gemstones leak Stormlight at a slow rate—but so long as the crystal structure remains mostly intact, the spren cannot escape." --- This leads me to wonder if later on, probably more in the latter 5 books in the series, if the use of different "metal cages" for Radiants will be used to enhance/change their abilities. Perhaps live Shardplate does this already. I know in RoW Navani is searching for the secret behind Soulcasters and I believe an understanding of the relationship between Radiants and Fabrials will be key to this. Can't wait to find out in less than a week!

Yes - it's in the same area as the the RoW spoiler discussions, just below them. Go back to "Rhythm of War and Dawnshard Spoiler Area", then it is the 4th option.

This is what I thought. There's going to be something I'm sure about training Aimians in the art of disguising like humans, while at the same time having oblique references to protecting Rysn because of what she's become, but without referencing what she's become. If Brandon said outright that it was an Aimian interlude or a Nikli interlude, that would provide spoilers for Dawnshard and take away some of the tension of that book so he avoided talking about it. I can't see any reason why Brandon would be cagey about decalring a Chiri-Chiri interlude since that sounds whimsical, not spoilery (unless you've already read Dawnshard and know more. That being said, if it is a Chiri-Chiri viewpoint, that'd be fun.

I seem to remember somewhere a WoB that indicates that Cultivation is the one more responsible, at least now, for Odium's containment. I believe Hoid or someone refers to her as "Slammer" or something else that implies that she is the jailor. Aside from that, I agree that Ishar likely held a Dawnshard. I'm not convinced that Dalinar YET holds a Dawnshard, though I would not be surprised if that is where this were going.