Odium's_Shard

After constantly comparing the images I have decided that although the second chart looks slightly different, the symbols displayed on it seem to be just stylized or slightly warped variants of those found in the original table, containing similar themes, icons, aspects and pattern types, just in a distorted order, and it seems unlikely that this is associated to Voidbinding.

I was about to point out what CrazyRioter stated, but I have a habit of getting ninja'd alot on these forums. Basically, I'll explain it in terms of Stormlight passing from the Storm to the Gem in order to simplify the process (as Gem to anything else involves complicated Cognitive ramifications). Firstly, the Stormlight somehow comes with the Storm from the Origin. This is universally known (though it unsure as to the previous stages, or what the Origin really is). Then, in the final stages of the truly dangerous part of the Storm, Kaladin experience the flow of Stormlight (described as a cold tingling in is spine, and the gem lighting up). It is this stage I am interested in. Think of the Three Realms of Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual presences as a single image. The eyes can only interpret the Physical, but it is my personal theory that the mind interacts with others on a Cognitive level in order to second-guess them, as humans have an ability to do, and the Spiritual is virtually indescribable or untouchable by anyone without Investiture. I am taking Investiture to mean the process of being involved with a Shard's system (in certain ways, ie, certain Mistings) and having access to it's power in Spiritual terms. In this way, Shardblades could be described as Invested objects, as they seem to have links with the Spiritual Realm. Now, split this 'whole image' into three layers. I see the Physical, as does everyone else, but then the Cognitive to me appears as tiny dotted lines of interaction between objects, as well as the overarching recollections of Shadesmar in the background (but with Physical images still present), and the Spiritual seems bluish glows in places it takes effect, but still on the backdrop of the Physical image. Now, say, the Stormlight, as I feel, is purely Spiritual. It would make sense. The gem, too, as do all things, must have a Spiritual presence, its own tiny void in the surrounding space of the Spiritual in which it is protected by its 'Spiritual defense' (which is incredibly low due to its lack of Cognitive power). Now, say that Stormlight, in order to affect, fill, or even just touch and object must in some way penetrate its Spiritual defense. Think of this as a Cognitive battle, but held in the Spiritual realm (and the Physical, due to the coloration of Light in a Physical sense). The Stormlight has a far higher power rating that the gem, and so is successful in penetrating its defenses and filling this void. However, in humans, such as Kaladin, this doesn't happen. I propose that this is because the Cognitive presence of Kaladin is far stronger, even though he has a Spiritual 'void' in which the Stormlight can penetrate (think of the principles of diffusion), the Light cannot, for Kaladin instinctively rejects it. Whereas in other objects, it may be because although they have a Spiritual presence in a way, they do not have access to the 'void' created for the Stormlight to fill during acts of Investiture, which Kaladin and the gems do. This also stops normal humans inhaling Stormlight, while Kaladin can. This really is just a recollection (and reorganisation) of the ideas proposed in my Vessels theory, which you might find really encompasses my view on all things Stormlight-transferal.

By removal of the mouth through test of sword, I was referring to the fact that Nightblood, or a sapient object similar to it with a different command (ie 'obey me'), would be fully justifiable in its actions so long as they lead to the user's desired result. Her shutting up could be caused by a removal of the eyes, tongue, or heart, in any fashion the weapon sees fit. It wouldn't just sew up the mouth, it might just take off its face. Nightblood also seems to have 'moods', it sometimes states that it is in a 'mood' for killing, etc. If this sapient object had moods, this could be extremely dangerous, for it could interpret your whims very literally to satisfy its own impatience, for example, or be too lax in their following to save you against an incoming swordsman if it was feeling particularly lazy.

The fan-trailer made here is actually a chopped up variant of a design approach. It contains many different already broadcast movies as well as some additions (such as the floating coin). It is good, but the additional parts make it look surreal and somewhat influid. All the same, I also anticipate this movie!

About your connotation 'gravity is a Physical force in the Cosmere', where did you get this idea from? No offence, but I plan to blow this one out of the water, if only to aid my own argument! You see, my personal theory (meaning you don't have to agree all the time, only to argue against my posts), is that ALL magical systems lend to the Spiritual Realm. Using simply Realmatic Theorem, the cycle would go like so (I'm sure you've seen these in my posts before, Telcontar): Physical Touch -> Cognitive Command -> Spiritual 'Transferal of Stormlight' Spiritual 'Bending of the light' -> Cognitive Push -> Spiritual Effect And so, the Surge Gravity and the Force Gravity are two different things. At no point during the cycle is gravity directly manipulated through a Physical ramification, it is the Spiritual 'prismatic effect' (new word for 'bending of the light') that lends power (of a Shard, Stormlight) to alter this. Gravity the force isn't altered, as some people may think, or else the entire world'd gravity would be changed, as well as perhaps the Cosmere's, and it is clear this doesn't happen. I think Brandon has said it is the person's 'links' to gravity that are altered. And if Stormlight is (and I'm sure of this, almost certain) taken to be a Spiritual force, which is only translatable as 'power' on a Spiritual level (as in the capture of Stormlight being filling a 'Spiritual' void, and the glowing effect a mere Physical side effect [not an actual Physical presence of Light]), this means that in order for it to affect this 'link' and exploit the ramifications, then this 'link' has to exist solely as a Spiritual link (think: if it existed on all planes, the process of changing gravity with Stormlight would be like cutting only one rope in a braid of three: the link still holds). And so the altering of Gravity with this Surge is simply an affectation of 'bent Light' directing this 'gravity link' in a Spiritual plane.

Thanks for the reactions! Now I understand that alot of this stuff can be quite controversial, and I wanted to point out that I never wrote the OP with the intention of persuading anyone that Brandon based it on Noetic Science, just that it seems to run near parallel in some aspects, and quite conveniently encapsulates the entire work-around the Certainty Principle states about spren. Also, as a religious follower (by LDS you mean the group who believe that Joesph Smith started the Second Awakening?), I'm sure that you especially can understand the incredible parallels that many religious notes explore throughout all of their Holy Scriptures, be it Torah, Bible, Book of the Mormon, Qu'aran, or the Singh Grant Sahib. Surely, these things cannot all be coincidence. Many people have suggested that a major factor for the reason that many different philosopher's, many different ardents, messiahs, and prophets in the multiple dashing faces of the world's religions, could conceive such similar and yet (please take no offence) unfounded and in some ways illogical step of turning to a higher power to sate their existential challenges. Why, when many religions talk of multiple gods, all of similar coin, does another, in the same region, speak solely of the One True God, a single coin, with multiple faces? In all essence, be it the Americans, or the Indians, or the Romans, every single one has pointed at higher power. And yet, all Holy Scriptures, your own included, state many plausible references to the fact that one's body may be the 'temple', the 'oracle', the 'holy ladder'. That apotheosis, the transformation to a deity, was that only difference between us and God. To state the Red Sea Scriptures: 'Thine main difference in man and God is that he, alone, recognizes his hidden divinity.' Of course, in the opposite direction, one could argue that all scriptures are vague on purpose, in order to inspire multiple message and multiple layers of meaning, and that this particular one was not intended at all to be twisted to prove my point. Of course, it is all open for debate, without solid proof.

Now, I know what you're thinking. After my last bluff on the 'quantum physics of Spren', many of you may be skeptical (I can name one a few) as to why I may be again bringing science, specifically poorly founded science, once again into the world of the Cosmere. Allow me to explain. Now, some of you may have read Dan Brown's novel 'The Lost Symbol'. Some of you may be cursing me already for allowing any of his works to taint this board. However, I am an avid fan of the 'science' behind these conspiracy theories, and while I hardly buy into them, it interests me to witness the history of the ancient repeat itself in contorted loops. And in this book, he demonstrated a new (and I must say, existing) scientific field called Noetic Science. Because of the book, the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) reported a tripling in the inquiries it receives. This particular science is described as 'the science of consciousness, and the physical ramifications of intent'. Now, here is where this scientific field becomes dramatically controversial, while at the same time, and almost sickeningly in the world of religion, plausible. It states that all aspects of any 'mystical power' to have ever existed were in reality just the work of a culmination of human thoughts, emotions and intents. Now you're thinking, I can picture you, sat at your computer, laughing at me. Saying I'm mad. Christian's will cry, why, it's Easter, Jesus didn't rise from the dead because people wanted him to. But that's what this science proposes. Evidence. We all seek it. Now let me gift you. Three hours following the dramatic and upsetting events of 9/11, four scientists in America were running Random Generating Events. Basically, it is a machine that causes unpredictable events. And, surprisingly, at this exact time, when all of America were mourning this monumental event, the scientists recorded that the random Event Generators... were less random. The patterns were becoming predictable, becoming strange emotional messages meaning sadness. They tested again and again in the subsequent weeks, and realised the effect was fading. At first they didn't know what it was. They scratched and turned, thinking. And then it dawned. It wasn't anything they had thought of at all. The thoughts, the cognitives, all around the world, had the potential to affect, and order, the physical realm. Tests have been done since, measuring the effects like 'The Placebo Effect', and how a patient thinking that they are receiving the medicine is almost the same as actually receiving it. And they determined that the way we perceive the world might alter it. This ties back in with the Quantum Physics, where observation changes results. They determined, that if we wanted something to happen in a vast randomness, there were high chances that if there were enough willpower behind it, then it variably came true. If Jesus, and the Five Thousand Gathered, so wanted the fish to split between them all, or for enough to become available for all, Noetic Sciences propose that on a smaller scale (as myths are often exaggerated) this might one day be possible. Tests such as five people willing a goldfish to swim away from them, the direction of light coming out of a Random Light Generator, all could be determined. Now, this at last sounds like something similar to the Spren Principle of Certainty. And last, and finally, Intent was shown to be a skill. People such as herbal healers, or prophets or oracles, may have simply been people who had very practiced 'organs' of thoughts, who could send thoughts the weight of hundreds of collective minds, and so invariably could see the truth, invariably could divine miracles. Nicodemus would be the best example of this. How else could he have known? I also see links to the and the shaping of the Power of Creation through the Shards Intent. The way the power is formed is determined by how the Shard feels or views that world around it, as something to destroy, to save, to cultivate, etc. I feel the links are here. Maybe Brandon even knows of them? It can't be mere coincidence that there is a link. As always, feedback about the Science itself is always welcome, as are suggestions as to the exact links to Brandon's works and Noetic Science. I'm not exactly an expert on the subject, less a practitioner, but I have enough understanding to answer questions you may have. Beware, Noetic Science is highly controversial, please avoid offending other's religious views when responding to the thread.

By semi-sapient, you refer to a sword that has the mental capacity just equal enough to justify everything around it as 'evil', and 'destroyable', thus giving itself freelance to slay them all given the chance? And you want to give it enough power to act on every whim of the user? 'I wish she'd just shut up.' Women no longer has a mouth three seconds later.

Again, the poetics are very nice, but I think they are getting in the way. The phrase "single, mandarin stroke" is an example of this. If the orange streamers are shooting off in hundred of directions, what does it mean to have a single stroke? That seems to be an impossible image. Perhaps you are using stroke like one might use penmanship? As in, all the streamers have the same artistic flair to them. But if that is the case, then the "mandarin" aspect can't be a color but rather a style (specifically, a bureaucratic style). But what sort of stroke is that? Are you trying to convey a sense of the brush stroke that a mandarin might use in writing a Chinese character? It has a very nice poetic ring to it, but I can't make out a clear meaning. I see what you mean, and I intend to explain. When the sun 'peaks' the horizon, I assume it to mean that it rises above the invisibility of the below the horizon. To 'peak' something means, in my definition, at least 'to rise over', as well as 'top of the mountain', etc. It was the sole verb I could find that both describes that the sun rises above the horizon, is short and snappy (and, as you say, quite poetic), and also gives the connotations that everything is downhill from here. Similarly, with the 'orange streamers... single, mandarin stroke' it was all about connotation. Hints. My works are structured similarly to BS' in that all is as it seems until the mystery, the uncertainty, and then the discovery and the euphoria (or the terror) sinks in, and they find out something new about the entire world, and the way things work. There are hundreds of streamers, and each one is a single, mandarin stroke. I can see how it is confusing however, but to me at the time it made most sense. It is there to give a sense of tradition, and calligraphy, as this is important to the rest of the story (and it has a Chinese-style history, ie, architecture takes inspiration from, the hierarchy is similar to it, with feudal lords, and a grand Emperor who feels he is the True Light, etc., when actually throughout the books Set exposes this, and is hunted for it, and finally stumbles upon an ancient secret that allowed them to play puppet-masters, masters this new magic, comes back and realises that actually, all along, he was being played for playing with the players, and that there were overarching forces at work, heading towards the destruction of the entire world. Set realizes this, and that it was his fault that they were allowed to meddle (as the Emperor he kills had a handle on these things) and quickly has to stop it using his new gifts. That is the premise (basically) of the Lux Chronicles.

Maybe, Mile's comment about the 'men of red and gold' refers to this, as he says the 'will get you', also. Maybe Southerner in Elendel steal young Allomancers to make themselves powerful, as Ruin sahred with them before his death the secrets of Hemalurgy, just to spite Sazed.

It isn't explicitly mentioned by Vin. In fact, it is revealed to her by Ruin himself (appearing as her brother in the cache) that he used her insane mother (insanity being a breach in the Spirit's defense enough for Ruin to access her) to spike Vin using her Seeker sister. Apparently, Vin's noble father was unfaithful on more than one occasion, and of decent Allomantic stock. List: One Mistborn. One Seeker. One insane lover.

Now where would be the fun in that?

Why then, wouldn't a Feruchemist just use Harmonium (works best, sorry, guys) to store power. When released, those wimpy Keepers up in the Terris Mountains could probably shout down a mountain, or throw an army across a field with a blink of the eye. Besides, if nobody was able to store awesome, then nobody would be around to write the Mistborn books. Deduction: Brandon is a Legend, a Ferring of the metal Harmonium. Revision: Brandon is Adonalsium. Why would he needs to shout down mountains when he could destroy existence itself?

So this still goes back to the 'Vin using "luck"' -> 'Vin purposefully/accidentally using Allomancy' argument. Was she actually just doing it instinctively? Or was Ruin there, behind her, telling her to do it through the spike. If he was subtle enough, it could sound just like her own conscience, just like these people with earring pre-Ascension might have presumed. Maybe Ruin was behind all her actions? Maybe he wasn't truly defeated, but, in spite of Zas's 'future sight theorem' created a complex and over-arching plan on a scale far higher than even Preservation's, and in his death, set up the potential for the end of all mankind, like maybe teaching the southern peoples how Hemalurgy worked in completion, and then 'tucking away' a piece of his self and his power that held sway over these particular constructs and their controls in a Well, and himself chose a Champion, who would go to the Well and rise up with an army of Southern Inquisitors/constructs? It would be... unexpected. So Harmony may not have inherited all of Ruin's power, but at the last second he created a Well. We know Ruin could have, because in the first drafts of Mistborn WoA, Vin actually travels to Ruin's Shardpool.

This 'opening a hole' to commune with deity thing has been mentioned in a different thread, which spoke of when people did it pre-Ascension. I also had the idea that a spike that kills and then is placed, but not in the right order, opens one up to the deity, and warps slightly. But other's stated that it must have a charge of some descriptions. Also, as to the OP: Kandra used to be Mistwraiths, which used to be Feruchemists (before Rashek changed them all into Mistwraiths to prevent anyone rising against him) and so presumably have the same Spirit points.

The most probable reason that the Traveler arrived second is because the Windrunner lands first, scouts the area, and kills nearby enemies. The Traveler then arrives safe, as presumably, their ability requires time (so as to block over-power). Another solution, brought up on a different thread, is that Stonewards (if they have the Travel ability) can only transport between stones, and to stones. So she detects a disturbance, and then runs towards a stone, reaches in, teleports, lands, runs to the disturbance. Presumably, they would have squads of people with these abilities in Urithiru on call near stone tablets, and when a disturbance is noticed, they immediately jump on one and vanish. It should theoretically (as per my thinking on the matter of fabrials) be possible to recreate every single Surge with the fabrial (and thus I deduced, in a different thread, that the emotion and pain reduction, as well as things like the Alerter and the 'strengthening' fabrials used to make Shardbows, must have basis in the original Ten Surges [this is backed up by Brandon S saying there are parallels in the magic systems, such as Emotional Allomancy -> Emotional Surge]). and so there could be fabrials for the other KR that allow them to teleport, again maybe using the stone tablets if stone is necessary for Travel (there must be requirements to prevent OP).

What gem does Jasnah manage to shatter? Theoretically, it should be a diamond, but this entire gem -> Essence theory isn't confirmed. Also, diamond can withstand extreme drops of temperature, in the real world. But what if this 'cold' shiver isn't actually Physical cold, but instead something else entirely, that gives the feeling of cold. Maybe I'm wrong... Kaladin states during his exposure to the Highstorm, at the moment when the gem fills with Stormlight, that he felt a cold shiver run down his spine. The expenditure of Stormlight leaves Szeth, at least, feeling cold. But as I stated, perhaps it isn't Physical cold. What sort of power could truly cause a diamond, the hardest known material in the world, to shatter (in fact, arguably, what causes it to be cut, but that's a different matter, presumably they use other diamonds)? The power of a Shard! /sanity So, allow me to explain. Instead of a Physical cold, what Kaladin actually experiences is a rupturing of his Spiritual defenses, in order to allow the Stormlight out of his vessel (body), using a Physical link (touch, ignoring Jasnah). And so his out defense is broken, but slowly heals. When Stormlight came out of the Storm, it pressured his Spiritual defense, meaning that he felt a wave of cold, but it was immediately healed. Maybe in the Spiritual Realm, outside of one's natural defenses, the power of the gathered Shard's, or remnants of their power, create freezing conditions. Allow case studies. So, say a Shardblade, when unsummoned, resides in the Spiritual Realm. They freeze, of course. But when the user summons them, and they are taken in by their Spiritual defense, the temperature change is sudden. This means they have dew droplets on them, condensed water. Also, could explain why the Shardblade is summoned using the heart. Say the body is linked to the Physical, you brain to the Cognitive (makes sense), and you heart the Spiritual. This allows it to govern compassion and the like, and also explains why Honor's magic relies on what is in your heart, as in your truest personality. And so, in ten of its beats, it can summon the Shardblade. And so now that diamond. How does Jasnah shoot her powers of Transformation at the two thieves? Time for a crazy theory. We all love them. Best of all, as far as I can see, this is plausible. The diamond chip is the lowest form of wealth denomination (?). I think. And so, it is plausible that even thieves have them on their person, as a small portion of tiny wealth. And so Jasnah picks Lucentia for the Essence. It could have been anything. She could have set them on fire, as the other one, or maybe into a rush of black smoke. Yet, significantly she picked the diamond for this particular Casting. Why? Because Soulcasting work through small 'wormholes' in the Cognitive Realm. This is where it all gets a bit whacky, but I swear this can't just be a coincidence. I might even post it as an actual theory. In my mind this explain's Jasnah's ranged Soulcasting much better than 'Travel' can. So, lets go to the basics. If you are familiar with my vessel theory, good, if not, it might be worthwhile. Soulcasting works like this, in my vessel theory. You go to the Cognitive Realm, offer up a certain type of Stormlight (depending on the gem used) to a certain object as a 'bribe', and the object follows your command, and using the type of Light, changes itself into the correct Essence and is 'freed' (presumably the new Essence has a new Cognitive presence, so the other isn't needed any more). So, what if in the Cognitive Realm, the gem has to be connected to you and to the object you Soulcast. This is clear. This way, the Stormlight can breach your Spiritual defense and be transferred, as I stated above. So, if in the Cognitive Realm, two gems were connected, ie, the passage of Stormlight is allowed between them? Jasnah, touching diamond on hand, thief touching diamond chip in pocket. The gem's Spirit defense stretches out, connects to the other diamond's defense (in a way only two similar gems can) and the injects the Stormlight between them, so Jasnah is touching a gem which is touching a thief. And then Soulcasting works as normal from there. Obviously, this extended transferral requires a far greater breach of the gem's defenses, and so a much high portion of the Power in the Spiritual Realm is allowed to seep in at once, thus making the diamond cold enough to completely shatter. It makes sense. You know it does. Tell me if there are any problems with this theorem, and I will list them here. If I find none, then I will post it as a full theory in General Theories. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Get used to it! Its all I seem to be able to do on these forums! We always take the discussions here to infinity and beyond...

Vin mentions that with Electrum, you don't get the mental boost necessary in order to choose the most useful path, like with Atium. Also, we have already said it may have been an assumption. It may not be a typo, but more of a slight inconsistency in the storyline. Very minor, any way you look at it.

I do believe that the exact reason that Hemalurgy allows Ruin to talk to the victim is because it 'warps' their soul and spiritual defense. Presumably, this happens in insane people too. So all the spike has to do is drive them insane or warp their soul. Surely, a spike that just taps any bind point, and any receiving point (such as heart, as seen with Spook, or eye, etc.) without it being in the right order to grant power, would still allow Ruin to talk to them? They could simply 'happenstance' a Hemalurgic construct this way, ie, somebody stabbed in heart/eye (regular ooccurence), and the dagger is then stabbed into someones shoulder. The blade doesn't need to snap. Some of the metal might just rub off. Or the cut is imbued with metal trace, etc. You have created a Ruin Oracle.

I really can't understand what the problem is. So, in the first quote she states that she has no Atium, nor Gold, nor either of their alloys. However, she doesn't know about electrum. But she knows that Gold must have an alloy. All metals do. After all, she was testing one at that moment. And, based off of her performance with the lord Ruler and the effectiveness of Malatium there, she is pretty certain that Gold's alloy must be crap, basically. But then in the second quote, after having found the cache that talks about electrum, and its ability to counter atium, she has 'learned about electrum'. She did. Before she didn't know what it was. Now she does. Isn't that a 'learn'? She learned both that it was gold's alloy and the counter to atium from the message left by TLR. Can you explain the problem again if I didn't get it?

Harmonium raises a good point: Are we sure what would happen if Atium was alloyed with Lerasium, ie, 50-50? Or do you think there is an Allomantic alloy percentage, ie 87-23? Also, I don't think we know what Lerasium's Allomantic property is, because Brandon said that making you a Mistborn was just a 'side-effect' of the ingestion?

^ This would make sense. Measuring Cognitive activity would be a good method, as it would only alert when there was a fluctuation, ie, a new person entering the radius, and only when it has significant Cognitive activity for the Heliodor to pick up on. The new question: How does the Heliodor channel the Power of Honour (or the Shard that powers Surgebinding) using a trapped Nahel-spren in order to master this power? Some of you may have seen my theory in General Theories where I suggest that Allomancy is less complicated than it seems, and can be explained away using the movement of metals in all compounds, but there seems to be no reasonable explanation for such an ability, other than only sentient beings are capable of honoring promises and oaths, as animals are controlled by instinct (or if Odium is the one in charge of fabrial [?] then only humans can bear intense and irrational hatred [Odium])?

Here is proof, from a gem-caring information website, that degree changes as small as 10F can cause a gem to shatter, or at least crack. This is just a difference of about 6 degrees Celsius . For a human body, sure, this may result in severe or mild hypothermia, but Kaladin rarely expends that amount of Stormlight at once, and if he did, the remaining Stormlight and its healing properties would help, as well as the adrenaline rush he felt in the battle to save Dalinar. @Telcontar: We don't have evidence that the gem gets cold, but that Kaladin feels the cold when he expends Stormlight, we presume the gems must do to, if the directly expends the Stormlight. It is my pet theory that this is what causes them to crack during Soulcasting.

I apologise for that. I got it mixed up on my chart. However, I still believe that the Body Focuses must be able to be Soulcast somehow, and you will still need those nails, hair and bones.