WhiteLeeopard

What kessler said. I think Amaram/Sadeas army was the most susceptible to Thrill-Odium. Kholin army would have likely been almost inmune, and as we saw some highprinces (Sebarial) were just sending their own troops over to the Kholins. As an aside at least Dalinar finally managed to unify Alethkar, half of the highprinces are now fully behind whatever he wants to do . Too bad the conflict escalated so fast ^^.

Come on Toaster just 2 more Parts . Need more people theorizing and writing posts. Kind of sad I haven't seen Calderis, Extesian or Maxal.

The only thing I'm likely to accept from the Diagram is that they excel at making things harder from our heroes, therefore forcing them to become even greater. Practically 7 Radiants with a bit of help from Adolin rallying some Thaylen troops held Thaylen city alone against an entire army of Voidbringers. If T hadn't shattered the coalition there would have been a huge army to back them up and they wouldn't have needed to stretch out to defend the city alone. And maybe Dalinar wouldn't have Ascended as he wouldn't have run out Kamikaze style. Thats as far as I'm going to accept the Diagram doing "good". Of course like Kaladin told Amaram, this doesn't mean the Diagram did anything to help, it just identified who was strong enough to fight.

The need for consort is often due to the need for a heir. With Elhokar's son as heir they may not need to. Plus considering how the Kholins run the family they may just make the next king or queen one of Adolin's and Shallan's children if they are more suited to it. I wouldn't mind seing that, it would be fun, but I dont find it necesary either.

Which thread is this? Not sure I believe this yet, but it now makes such perfect sense Rlain and Renarin are friends. They are like mirror images of each other. The parsh meant to be a Voidbringer who became (maybe? not giving up on this yet) a KR squire. And the brightlord meant to be a KR who became (maybe) a Voidbinder.

Eshonai was the most surprising. Elhokar the one to hit me hardest. For the reasons stated above.

Or it could be a level 3 KR is much harder to resist than a proto radiant's spiritual gravitation and adhesion .

Come to this thread, that shard is already bursting with threads everywhere.

What T did was completely unsurprising for me. Yielding to Odium was always at the top of my list of what I expected the Diagram to do. He just wanted to take over all the world to yield to Odium, hoping Odium would then spare all the world as his servant (T) was ruling it. Of course that plan proved to be as smart as could be expected. This was heavily implied it was coming in WoR, and there was further confirmation in OB when Mrall was growing uncomfortable with what they were doing and asking if there was a chance they could fight and win. The "smart people" (Adrotagia and T that day ) both totally ignored such stupidity and naiveness. That was one of the most clear signs of what the Diagram was. I suspect a radiant normal one. Lol. That was funny. Kaladin didn't like illusions because they felt like lies. Even in WoK Kaladin was deeply uncomfortable with tiny lies and misdirection, because Syl didn't like them. I suspect Windrunners were nearly incapable of lying. And by extension illusions likely slid off them as they (and their spren) dissapproved of the lie inherent in them. Of course could just be my impression and there could be something more behind it .

The skybreakers were unexpected. They seemed to be so mechanical on their progressing, and acting. However, it is not too surprising that the lawmen of the KR are 1. not like the other KR 2. much more mechanical and less spontaneous: follow the procedure to swear oaths instead of feel the feel the oaths as you are ready Of course, reading them from Szeth might have skewed our perception, as he was already living the first 2 Skybreaker Oaths (if not 3) for nearly all his life. Nightblood is not normal ^^.

Thats possible, but I've always had a deep dislike of the Diagram. Maybe because its completely without hope. Hope is the last thing that should be lost. Thus anything based on the idea that there is no hope is disturbing.

That would be amazing. BUT. If its current owners were not a good fit of the order the spren would die again almost immediately. Unless the owners were willing to behave exactly as the spren needed them to, to stay alive. Which sounds tough, even sworn radiants sometimes trip, imagine a person that has no fit whatsover with the spren in question. Then again, the end of the world makes people very open minded. Maybe more than expected might be willing to become a proper fit for the required order. That would defintely be doing things backwards. Get spren and Blade with Oaths included, then live the Oaths.

Taln would tell you both to stop letting Odium drive you . My first impression when he was happy for humanity was sadness. Thinking humanity did not deserve him. He was happy he was tortured for 4500 years so humanity came so far maybe now they have a chance to finally win. My first thought was...I'm not sure I want you to see where humanity is. Yes they have come very far. But. Alethkar is full of people just half a shade away from Odium. Iri and Rira are already united with Odium. T is already throwing Jah Keved and all his scholars and schemers into Odium's service. Things are so grim, when after the amazing sacrifice Taln did they should have been more ready than ever to win . Really gave an impression of been a superior being in comparison to the pettiness and cowardice all around.

A. Sounds good. Biggest challange will be getting singers away from Fused. Ultimately they likely will, after all whats the point of been free if they are still slaves to their ancestors? Talk about been mired in the past. Literally. B. I'm not sure Odium would leave without Shattering Cultivation and possibly doing something else on Roshar. Dalinar asked him what he would do if he freed him. Odium basically said he would do some changes to the world before leaving. Even if Odium leaves they would still have to deal with the Fused and Everstorm, as investure doesn't just dissappear as soon as the Shard goes. C. Erhm, unlikely slash impossible D. Likely pointless E. Likely semi-pointless F. Yup So, make peace with parsh that just want to live (Venli's task I guess) and splinter Odium. No biggie . Didn't always agree with you (if you think anything good can come of the Diagram you have a lot more faith than me) but it was a nice post.

Actually in a super show of control IMO I finished Part 4 at 2 or 3 in the morning, then went to bed to finish the next day .

Welcome to the shard and thank you for a lovely first post that granted us a more clear view of how Azure was perceived . On all characters arriving at the end, yeah, I think Brandon once said that one of the hardest things to do was get all the people to the right place at the same time. I did feel a bit hollow when the book ended, but I suspect that its because I was reading in a row and I knew I wouldn't get anything else from SA for 3-4 years . So in my mind its really important to have a "happy ending" or at least for the book to end at a comfortable place, as I know in my mind there will not be advancement for years yet. To those that feel dissappointed, or that the book was not as tight as usual, everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion. However I think the reason why it feels less smooth is because so much was happening. In WoK Flashbacks: Kaladin had a happy childhood, then Roshone came, he went with the army, Tien dies, then he killed Helaran Kaladin: Is a slave, carries bridges, inspires Bridge 4, gets ancient powers, saves Dalinar et al. Shallan: Becomes a ward to Jasnah, learns some scholarship, steals soulcaster, soulcasts, gets poisoned, discovers KR returning Dalinar: Is a bad politician, gets visions, almost gets his whole army killed, gives Blade for Kaladin and Bridge 4 Others: Szeth is insane and does what he is told, generally murdering lots of people. Adolin is a nice guy, concerned with his people and his family. In WoR Flashbacks: Shallan kills mother, father lies to all to cover it, house Davar collapses, Shallan tries to keep it propped up till she kills father Kaladin: Is a bodyguard, has contact with Kholin family and is brought into their inner circle, Moash brings him in for the assasination, 4v1 duel, he agrees to help kill Elhokar, Syl dies, he is in the chasms, he revives Syl and saves Elhokar, he kills Szeth Shallan: Jasnah dies leaving her alone, she makes her way to the SP, gains minor influence, enters GB, flirting with Adolin, chasms, shows herself to Dalinar, saves army by taking it to Urithiru Dalinar: More visions, he gets plot to get Shards from other Alethi and generally brings a few alethi to heel, tries to make peace with listeners, takes army to war, destroys listeners, everstorm arrives, battle of Narak, he binds Stormfather Others: Szeth is still killing people. Adolin fights duels getting Shards, and leads an important part of the battle of Narak, he kills Sadeas. Eshonai wants peace, but is turned into a Voidbringer and turns all listeners into Voidbringers. Lift is a KR with Nalan chasing her. T is introduced with Diagram on tow. In OB Flashbacks: Dalinar is a monster, warlord and killer. Kills, destroys and shatters lots and lots of people and places. Becomes engaged to Evi, almost kills Gavilar, has two children, shows the intense power of the Thrill, kills Evi and burns the Rift, goes to the Nightwatcher Kaladin: Is a full fledged KR, visits Hearthstone, meets and befriends parsh, has some meetings in Urithiru showing his Windrunner status, goes to Kholinar, enters Wall Guard, leads assault on palace, fails and becomes blocked with having friends on both sides of the battle, watches Elhokar die, runs around Shadesmar, can't say 4th ideal despite knowing the words, has final battle with Fused and Amaram Shallan: Has problems with her lies/personas, scares Midnight Mother, faces self-confidence problems with Jasnah back, infiltrates cult and has some failures in Kholinar, fails to get them to Urithiru, Shadesmar, lightweaves an entire army in Thaylen city, marries Adolin (Wow, Kaladin and Shallan had a really bad book when you look at it) Dalinar: uses his powers, tries diplomacy, has a clash with the church, has some skype chats with many people including Odium, gets coalition for humanity, coalition collapses thanks to Diagram, Odium tries to make him his champion, Dalinar Ascends Others: Szeth becomes a Skybreaker and swears himself to Dalinar, he has some bonding time with Nightblood. Adolin meets his Blade, does some Edgedancer-y stuff, fights on Thaylen battle picking up loose ends no-one else is paying attention to. Renarin bonded a corrupted spren. Jasnah almost kills Renarin, but stops, she fights in Thaylen battle, she finds Shallash and Taln, she becomes Queen of Alethkar. Lift brings Azish to coalition, helps Szeth steal gem to trap Thrill-Unmade. T swears himself to Odium in exchange of his city been spared. Venli bonds KR spren and turns slightly away from Odium. Bridge 4 are squires and some become KR. Moash sides with the Voidbringers, kills Elhokar and Jezrien. Looking at it, it is no wonder Oathbringer was not as tight as the other two, to be it would have needed 500 more pages minimun . All in all, I was satisfied and I'm already finding hidden gems I hadn't noticed on first read.

These are pure gold. GOLD.

That WoB could just mean those two humanoids (humans and parsh) come from before the ascension of H, C and O. Impression I got is that humans of the first wave worshipped Odium. And that there were no humans on Roshar before the first wave. H and C might have ordered the parsh to welcome the humans because the two shardholders were originally from Yolen and felt a slight kinship/responsible for the humans.

We have a lot of extra information. Jasnah doesn't. Its not even certain Jasnah knows about the Cosmere. She would have no way of knowing Odium came later just from texts in Roshar. For all she knows humans always worshipped Honor and Odium has always been the parsh god. The information that that is not so comes from the spren, not any texts. Even the dawn text is not enough as with Odium claiming he is Passion, the parsh could be claiming Honor is a void.

If this is the case I don't think she is keeping it a secret on purpose. The line made it seem Jasnah was as shocked as Adolin at what had just happened. Its possible this was the first time she used Shardplate or that she did it by accident and had no idea what she had just done. However that paragraph does seem to imply she might have Shardplate, nice catch!

It is suspected that what is meant is that humans used Voidbinding to destroy their previous world. Its close enough to surgebinding that they use that word, after all after thousands of years some knowledge shifted or was lost. Secondly, the fact that Odium was originally the human god was not so clear in any of the records. I believe that was confirmed by the spren instead? Finally, I know many people say they are underwhelmed by the Recreance, so I will say that its likely part of the problem of the Recreance is that Honor's death had started. The KR were been led by a dying Shard, becoming pure Honor without morality or goodness. In addition there hadn't been a Desolation in 2000 years, the KR likely felt useless and without purpose. Add these 2 points to knowing parsh were in Roshar first plus humans destroyed their old world, and its not so unlikely. In any case, don't assume we know all the past, as we are still missing some pieces. Like, who were the KR fighting when they forswore their oaths? What destroyed Aimia?

So, best duelist in the world able summon Shardblade with no 10 heartbeats, use Stormlight for speed, strength and healing AND look good while doing it? We can have that .

Thats what has me holding my breath. Taln seems ready to permanently steal the spot of strongest, most wonderful, most selfless character ever written or imagined. But...what if he has been so damaged in 4500 years that he is partly of Odium now? That would break all our hearts after what we know of him so far. I don't think I've seen it elsewhere, and don't want to clog shard with more threads so will ask here. What do you all think of Jasnah having Shallash and Taln now? The shock when they wake up and the first thing they say is "Jezrien is dead" will be like an earthquake. At the same time I suspect that the Heralds (some at least) may change their tune really fast after his death. Ironically it may be what brings them out fully to fight. After all their current options seem to be to run, hide and die or to fight and maybe die. Poor Heralds, their options always are bad and worse. Although I cannot help but wonder if some of them may want to die permanently to end the pain and insanity.

Its possible and it would be fun . But ultimately I suspect Odium needs to merge with other Shards to be stable. For the front 5 there is a high suspicion in the air that either Odium is freed, humans go to Braize for some reason, or someone goes to Braize to act as a Herald for a few years to gain time to prepare.

I thought that at first. But then I saw two good possibilities for the sapphire shining. 1. The sapphire absorbed his life investure and his soul moved on 2. The sapphire took his piece of Honor But its true my first thought was that Jezrien was just trapped like a spren in a gem.