WhiteLeeopard

@Chaos Do you think it might be possible to merge these two threads? Its getting a tiny bit chaotic, but I don't know if they count as separate enough topics to remain appart ^^.

I found this thread soon after posting that, quite nice chat there. First page talks of Heralds. Second page about possible consequences of Jezrien dead and spiked.

Renarin has nothing to do with Dalinar and the Ascension. What the passage means is that there is something about Renarin that the Diagram predicted that Odium is incapable of seing. What that may be, we don't know. T did indeed get on his knees before Odium, he just used the Diagram to be able to talk to Odium, because the Diagram predicted T would be so dumb on the day Odium talked to him that T would not be able to do even basic negotiations.

What it means is that Dalinar surprised everyone trying to predict events (Odium and Diagram) by Ascending. Not to full god, but likely to a Splinter. Odium always meant for Dalinar to be his champion. And it wouldn't be surprising if the Diagram also predicted the Blackthorn would be the champion. After all the Diagramists were having a fight over how wrong the Diagram was been recently just before the Everstorm hit. However, while inspecting the Diagram with Odium T saw that there was a part of the Diagram which Odium couldn't see. That part was related to Renarin.

I always love more ideas on what the unite them means, as I have been certain for a while that no-one in Roshar had it right yet. At the moment I think it means unite the pieces of Honor. Basically reassemble Honor. But your idea has merit, I'd also like if that were the case.

Lopen saying the 2nd Ideal and going to Kaladin to get congratulated. For Kaladin to say, nice work, you are now second in command, gotta go. Dalinar giving out instructions on the defense of Thaylen city to all his KR to end with, any questions? Lift: yeah, where is some food? Adolin running to defend Jasnah during the assault. Only to see her turn enemies to air with a snap of her fingers. So he turned around, Alrighty, cousin is just fine, lets find someone I can actually help.

We'd need to know the innate powers of the Heralds to know how much we need to frick out....Holy chull. I just realized something. If you spike someone with Jezrien's spike would that person be added to the Oathpact?? The implications are mindboggling. The simplest is that if by some reason the Desolation ends and they use a Herald on Damnation to plug the Voidbringers in, that newly hacked person could just go to Damnation and yield allowing the Desolation to restart. Thats the easiest one. The other possible implications may be horrifrying to imagine.

Ohhh yes, that was awesome. Best part is those Voidbringers he killed with Nightblood are permanently dead. IOU an upvote when they refresh.

I did think of Taln while writing that post. However I wrote it anyway, because I think Taln is the strongest and the best person in all of SA but as we've discussed before strength and good do not equal honor. They may be compliments, but not necesary. In its purest essence, with no additions or intentions Szeth is probably the closest to Honor around. Taln is just the closest being to a perfect human (or so it seems so far) .

Now, now, he didn't just kill kings. He also killed highlords, merchants from the council of Thaylen, and emperors. So he isn't just slayer of monarchy, but also of feudalism, plutocracy and emperialism . I liked that scene, he needed some R & R. The highest level skybreakers drooling after him and fighting over who got to keep him as squire was funny but unsurprising. The only other alternative was for them to be scared of the competition because they knew he likely surpassed them with a single surge and jaleous that he was clearly Nale's favorite. I'm glad for Szeth that he got the first option.

Brandon said Hemalurgy was made to work everywhere in the Cosmere. Makes sense that to absorb a cognitive shadow like a Herald (basically a piece of investure) you would just use a spike to absorb the investure instead of a powerful one-of-a kind weapon. Easier, and more dangerous. Specially dangerous when you understand Jezrien's investure is in a spike that could be transferred to someone now. And that any old spike of the right material will do to kill Heralds, you don't even need a unique weapon to destroy the Oathpact.

That may end up been a race between Shallan and the Diagram to pull out their thread. While Sja-anat should be approached with caution maybe some careful questioning in her direction may yield fruits. As we've seen the conflict won't be neatly split. So far sides are: Odium Most Honor pieces Most parsh Lets say a third of humanity All Fused About two thirds of the KR Diagram Nightblood Sons of Honor most likely Cultivation about here Iriali, Rira, and some humans from all countries All Unmade Skybreakers, and likely some Dustbringers Looking at this there really needs to be some flow from Odium side to Honor side, partly to get a bit more representation, and partly to get more even.

I was hoping Szeth would enter the Everstorm with Nightblood drawn and start sucking in the evil spirits. After all, there must be some investiture there, and Nightblood can totally eat spren. So, easy solution.

Moash is now the perfect Odium follower and he encompasses what Odium wants quite well I think. Moash is a whipped dog/slave, he obeys, he is a semi-zombie most of the time, with nothing inside him, and the few times he acts is for violence, desruction and death, and always obeying his masters. Thats Odium. Emptiness until he needs destruction.

OMG, that seems so obvious now.

I have always expected the worst out of the Diagram and they have happily delivered. Maybe you are right, I seldom fully discard anything, but the Diagram always felt like bad news all around. Before OB the nicest I was willing to think of the Diagram was that they didn't know their endgame. If they knew their endgame I was fairly sure it was capitulating to Odium. And voila. I was disturbed by Odium, and he is clearly a complex character, but thats not surprising, few villains here are simple. I don't think he cares though, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. He could just have been savoring Dalinar doing what Odium wanted him to. I agree the parsh have it rough, but for different reasons. They have it rough because first they were enslaved by humans for millenia, and when they woke up it was just to be used by their ancestors as cannon fodder in their war of millenia ago. The harsh truth I got is that the Fused care nothing for the parsh. They just care about their war, and the parsh are the peons they will use in it. Talk about ancient grudges preventing a race from truly living life. Why? What determines who deserves to live? Is living a right you must earn? Do you honestly believe because your ancestors did something bad you deserve to be punished? So...if you descend from a murderer are you cursed forever no matter what you do? Humans were the bad guys once. So what? Who hasn't been the bad guys at some point? And more importantly, does it matter? The only way that humans don't deserve Roshar is if they don't fight for it. A peaceful resolution would be ideal, but ultimately, humans will defend themselves and their families, and I will not be convinced that is wrong. Because there is nothing wrong with wanting to live, and wanting your children to live. Everyone in Roshar, parsh and humans both just want to live, and quite simply none of them is wrong to want that. Where? I missed some things ^^.

I loved this part. Adolin, Shallan and Kaladin working together were flawless and perfect. It was specially satisfying to see that when Kaladin had had too much Adolin steered him till he recovered without giving it a single thought. The interaction with the spren was awesome. Was funny to see when they came in they were horrified and thought it was Damnation, (specifically Adolin) but once they hit their stride they seemed to be alright in Shadesmar. Except for the pesky need to return to their side or it would burn . I don't dare to comment much more without checking what I'm saying is in this part. Maybe tomorrow will continue.

By the way. Where was Rlain after his pov? He has a potential huge role, yet he was barely shown. I get he was probably semi-hidden as someone might try to kill him if away from Bridge 4, but his complete dissappeareance? Wasn't he going to talk to Kaladin about how he felt alone in the world? What happened then? I so wanted him to try to suck in stormlight as a squire .

Not cool. I wandered into this thread after I ran out of upvotes. Will try to remember to return when they refresh. For some reason I found it really hilarious when the wall guard was patrolling with Kaladin and they were laughing at that "useless chicken", Kaladin went ready to laugh with them till he saw...thats actually my best friend and possibly the greatest swordsman, commander and genuinely nice person in Roshar. But yeah, he does love fashion. Also the thought that Szeth was Dalinar's new main bodyguard and no-one batted an eye at that . And Kaladin's (Paraphrased) "Anyone that could have helped us is dead, insane, a traitor or a mix of the above. Great" Nightblood been the voice of reason about Nalan as one reviewer pointed out: N: He is almost evil. S: He is one of the least evil people in our world N: Then your world has some serious issues.

I'm sure Renarin will in some ways stabilize a lot after OB. His family knows the truth, and they embrace him anyway. That will lift an unimaginable weight from him. All the darkness in the world is much easier to face with people that have your back. Other monarchs and morons will make trouble, but they will likely stand with Renarin through it all. Unoficial Kholin motto: Family above gods On a more somber tone though, seems that to be a living Kholin you need to be a star. Elhokar was becoming good, possibly even great. But apparently thats not enough in Roshar if your surname is Kholin . Current Kholins: Dalinar, with 3 gods fighting over who gets him, who was first a man who could defeat an army on his own, and now is most likely a Splinter of Honor Jasnah, greatest scholar in Roshar, most intelligent person in Roshar, most badass woman in Roshar Navani, genius fabrician despite her claims otherwise, amazing organizer, great politician Adolin, best swordsman in Alethkar (Roshar?), one of the best tacticians, great leader and commander, and capable of inspiring anyone Renarin, first person to bond a corrupted spren and demonstrate he can still be a Knight Radiant, and likely a key in Odium's future downfall Maybe they should consider sending Elhokar's son to grow up elsewhere...as with those requisites to be a living Kholin the poor kid has it tough.

The skybreakers are odd. They make sense usually, but an odd sense. I honestly believe that they will continue visiting and training Szeth even if they are on different sides, and they won't do it with any ulterior motive. Just see each other as fellow skybreakers following their Oaths and respect each other for it. Szeth is probably the character closest to Honor in all SA. I don't think he has ever broken an Oath. Not even the silly or hard ones. Szeth's fate is right now fully on Dalinar's hands. Szeth can't bear to be on the driver seat of his life so has passed the wheel to Dalinar. Whether he drives him to Honor, Odium, Cultivation, redemption or something else will depend on Dalinar more than anyone/anything else. No pressure there . Sigh, their chat is probably the most missed thing for me in OB.

Some more random thoughts I don't think I've written yet. I was amazed at how easy it was for squires to become KR. Clearly the journey our protagonists had to go through fighting every inch was not normal by a hair. Knowing the Oaths, knowing what you had to do, and having spren around and a knight to support you made it all so smooth. Lopen's spren is going to love Lift. And vice versa. Actually Lopen and Lift could be bffs easily. Poor Wyndle would the the odd man out there. Did anyone else wonder why couldn't Szeth just stick Nightblood in Thrill-Unmade while Dalinar summoned the perpendicularity? No need to trap the thrill maker, just kill it . Syl's special status explained so much. It would have been a bit odd if the Stormfather was so protective of all honorspren. Also explains the Stormfather's push pull treatmeant of Kaladin. He is after all the man to elope with his only daughter

Maya was one of the best parts of the book. I'm now 95% sure she will be revived . If only because not been revived after what we saw on OB would cause a large part of the 17th shard to riot and burn a city or three a la Blackthorn.

Seanchan incoming! Wrong book . I mean Wandersailers incoming! Also, how dumb is that if Odium had left that gemstone well alone our guys wouldn't have: 1. Known the gem was important 2. Been able to trap the unmade of the thrill 3. Had a ton of gemstones nearby to recharge and hold Thaylen city

The three of them together were one of the most beautiful thing in OB. Kaladin protecting, yet knowing he could be himself and trusted Shallan and Adolin with everything he had. Shallan was the biggest issue while dancing between the two. But when she just let herself be she always knew they had her back and she honestly didn't need to hide even though she often did so nonetheless. And Adolin picking up the other two when they fell or couldn't carry on. It was beautiful.