WhiteLeeopard

Oh, you are right. My first thought was because she is a woman, doing what counts as masculine arts. But of course you are right. Heretic in charge. And then Dalinar will stroll up, "I've taken up a piece of the Almighty". Followed by Renarin "I may have bonded a Voidspren. Can I still become an ardent?"

Sounds about right. I've had Gavilar on most despicable list for a while, but maybe I should just move him to moron list. I highly doubt Jasnah had any clue of what they were doing, or that she helped in any way. The fact that Gavilar didn't ask for help in what he was doing to Jasnah and Navani (2 smart, intelligent, resourceful women with expertise in many areas) was always one of the main indications that Gavilar was fishy. I'm feeling sorry for the Stormfather. First trying to bond a man that was trying to start a Desolation to gain power. Then forced to try to bond the man that was very clearly three fourths Odium at least . Poor Stormfather, and then people say he doesn't like humans.

In this particular case I took it as metaphorical. At the very least a piece of Moash remains. Of course I could be wrong, I'd been reading for a long time by the time I reached that part.

Yes, yes, yes to everything about Szeth you said @axcellence. I was willing to forgive why in battle they all just rolled with it, as everyone else had bailed ship or switched sides, by that point you take what you can get. And he had just vaporized a huge number of Voidbringers. But after? There should have been a 4h long conversation minimun. I wonder which book we'll get next. Szeth and Skybreakers? Or Eshonai/Venli and Willshapers?

He didn't become a Fused. He just became best bro of the Fused. If Jezrien's death doesn't make all the Heralds get off their butts to join the fray then nothing will. Of course if they are going to make the same choice as Nale they can keep on been on vacation .

If Szeth can get a handle on his (possible) highspren and Nightblood he will rock the house beyond what the Unmade could dream . I really, really want to see Nightblood eat an Unmade. Good thing Szeth has attached himself to a guy that can summon a perpendicularity on command, as with Nightblood thats less of an excentricity and more of a very useful lifeboat.

Peace between the 2 groups is likely the only way to win. But I'd like to point out 7 Radiants held off an army of Voidbringers in Thaylen city for quite a while . Being the underdogs is something these protagonists are used to. Speaking of Navani...she is so nuts for having been in love with the Blackthorn. Who could love him when he was a monster? Evi was unique, and even she was scared of him. Well, this is obviously my personal opinion. But I was thrilled many of the threads I wanted to see dropped were indeed dropped. Helaran thread is the only thing of SA I disliked. I found it contrieved, uneccesary and too typical of literature (huge trope). Additionally I deeply disliked Helaran for abandoning his family who needed him desperately to chase glory. I was happy it was barely mentioned. I wanted to see the Sadeas thread have little emotional or political impact because, a) who cares when everyone hated him,b ) when the end of the world is coming I think you have bigger problems than who killed a person who had no idea what world he was living in. Last thread I wanted to see dissappear: love triangle. I wanted her to choose Adolin for practical reasons (Shallan and Kaladin are both main protagonists, if they got together they would overshadow all else, and in general Kaladin is more epic as a character but Adolin is a ray of sunlight which would probably be a more stable partner in a relationship). But either way I just wanted it resolved one way or the other, as I could get behind any of the boys (Kaladin and Adolin are probably my favorite SA characters, although for different reasons). And again, out it went. . So, I know its an unpopular opinion but I'm sort of happy those things were removed, as they were the least fun for me to read. The only thing I might have liked is a bit more Sons of Honor, and definetely a conversation between Szeth and Dalinar, and probably Szeth and Kaladin after the battle. I'm still holding out hope we will see this conversation sometime, maybe an extra excerpt or novella or something...

Felt is from Scadrial ^^.

No. The brokenness isn't a theory, its a known fact. Its not just for SA either, its for the whole cosmere. You need to be broken so the investure can enter your soul.

Muahahahha! Upvote just for that line .

That seems a tough sell considering Ishar's Masema-style ravings as god-priest of Tukar. I guess if thats true it shows how mentally compromised the Heralds are to not see the obvious.

Thats a good point and reasoning. Nevertheless Nale could have decided to keep fighting for whoever was siding with Honor at the time. Just because the Shard was shattered doesn't mean one side wasn't clearly fighting for Honor and with Honor's power. I can imagine Vivenna's reaction: V: Hand over that sword! Its a criminal and it shouldn't be out loose in the world S: Sorry, you can't have him, he is one of the most sensible sentient beings here V:...Maybe I should go back to Nalthis, people there actually have common sense. When I left my planet I never thought that'd be so rare

I agree with you he is not broken enough. But I was refuting your statement that his life had been peachy.

If tou think about it his wounds are not actually that terrible considering the fights he gets himself into. Its just a reminder of how normal people, even the most skilled, would fare on those kind of fights. But you are right Adolin at this stage would gain a huge boost from the ability to draw stormlight just for the healing. I see Adolin and Lift as similar for another reason. They both tend to seem like glue for groups of people, bringing in an unexpected perspective and generally soothing people when they need it, Lift with Nale, beggars, even Dalinar and Adolin with Kaladin, sometimes Shallan when she was on the verge of collapsing, Bridge 4, Dalinar too etc. Thats true, but at this point it isn't because he hasn't been through enough. His father was a monster most of his life, he barely saw his little brother as his father couldn't bear to see him, he was told his mother was assasinated, his father basically hated him for a few years, his uncle was assasinated, he was basically left in command of the Kholin armies since age 17 (max 19, we don't know how long after the boon Dalinar fought listeners till he got tired and focused on the way of kings), his father then set him up for impossible ideals of perfection, he watched 6000 of his men die due to a betrayal he saw coming but his father ignored his warnings. I'll stop there as the WoK and WoR things he does have been mentioned above. Its simply that he is a very resilient person, most other people in his situation would be very, very broken.

For once I agree with you regarding the Diagram. But part of why it works is I believe T is a dupe with no idea how Cultivation is using him. And that someone like T who fully believes he is serving Odium to save his tiny city will be happy with that deal...you can't tell me T is a hero after that negotiation.

I think what he needs to unite is Honor itself, but parsh and humans is a very good option too. Even odds I'ds say. I suspect the skybreakers are used to following Nale without question, seing him as a demi-god and seeking his approval desperately. I hope that some Skybreakers decide to go follow Szeth after they see he sides with the humans and still keeps Nale's respect. And after their spren pressure them for a while . Probably recover from the shock of finding out they can now permanently die and rejoin the war effort since dead Heralds ups the stakes considerably. The fact that Jasnah has them should make the transition to working with our heroes easier. Taln probably already wants to help when he is lucid, hopefully that and the shock of her father's death will make Ash join the fray again. Although she may need some Windrunner bodyguards considering how Heralds will likely be hunted. Windrunners because they seem the only Odium-proof order (and maybe Edgedancers). (Then next book an evil Windrunner appears shredding my little heart appart). Me . Since somewhere around Part 2 I realized Dalinar was Odium's endgame. I then was so focused on Dalinar as the champion I didn't even consider anyone else as a potential for it. I was convinced he'd have to fight as Odium's champion vs Szeth as Honor's. Then when in the climax Szeth was deciding to follow Dalinar, I thought for a heartbeat that Szeth would drop to follow Dalinar, and Dalinar would order Szeth to fight him as Honor's champion a moment before he succumbed and became Odium's. Was sooo happy that didn't happen. I suspect that with Szeth having Nightblood around the perpendicularity may be needed as a simple security measure. We saw since a chat with the SF the bondsmiths were very, very powerful. It may just be possible the perpendicularity will not be as large or powerful as during the battle, and that it leaves Dalinar drained for a while. I'd be willing to accept that as enough. Specially as it would mean Dalinar would often need a radiant bodyguard around. Would be so ironic, the ex-Blackthorn, who could defeat an army by himself bonds a piece of Honor (and maybe becomes a splinter himself) and somehow is more vulnerable than ever and needs a bodyguard as he never did before . I liked your post, we seem to think quite similarly on some things, IOU an upvote once they refresh.

I feel you. I didn't go so far as to dislike her, but I was always lukewarm towards her at best. For the reasons you said, always suceeding no matter what with very little experience or knowledge. I'll upvote you once they refresh if I remember. I wasn't upset over that, but that may be because of how I felt towards him. In WoK I mildly disliked Elhokar, on WoR I was neutral towards him. Then on OB he started rising up as a star...to go out with glory trying to save instead of whimpering. I found it sad, but fitting and not a character betrayal. However I can totally feel why some readers would feel betrayed. I'd however argue its not fair to accuse other characters of not grieving. The amount of things they had on their plate was enormous. Shallan was a hair away from open insanity, Kaladin was semi-catatonic, Adolin was left to pick up the pieces and keep them together, while knowing he failed his king and cousin, lost his city and failed thousands of people in Kholinar.

I doubt Azure was captured or the ship taken. The Fused seemed wary enough of honorspren to wait to get reinforcements to chase them. And Viviena was last seen preparing to awaken and fight like hell. A high level Awakener, with a powerful Shardblade and honorspren around to take advantage of the surprise are not bad odds. I suspect the ship defeated/killed the Fused. Azure's sword was doubtlessly powerful but it was also obviously not at Nightblood level, wasn't leaking smoke, and Azure was not repelled or wary of it as she always was of Nightblood. And obviously still is considering she was chasing Nightblood . I feel you. I read "I am Unity" then offered to accompany a friend to the library since she wasn't sure where it was. I'm not certain my conversation was fully coherent but I still deserve an award for the semi coherence part I scrapped up. Of course I then spent the walk convinced he was going to unite Honor.

Ohhh, you are right. So yes, maybe Gavilar was serving Odium, knowingly or not. I still need to reread OB and digest it before I will be able to speak confidently of it wihout forgetting so many pieces ^^.

Fair point. Then I can say I admire his character too...but I deeply hate and despise him and will cheer so hard when he dies, or when his beloved city is destroyed and burnt to the ground...I really am too bloodthirsty .

I really want to believe T is a dupe and an idiot which Cultivation is using for her own ends. I hope something good comes out of the Diagram, but not because of anything T has hidden, just because Cultivation is that awesome. I know many people admire T, and I respect that opinion, but I always deeply disliked him. IMHO anyone that honestly believes they can get anything good out of killing innocents and great people in some cases has some serious issues, and nothing good can (intentionally) come out of him. My thoughts exactly. The wording could be twisted in so many ways, I could think of 3 without too much effort. Spare as in, I will make sure no-one from Karbranth dies when I take the city and that the city is intact too. Or, I will capture everyone from Karbranth and keep them as slaves for the parsh. Or, I will lay siege to Karbranth and watch everyone starve to death although I won't personally lift a finger to harm them.

Generally, the characters that hit rock bottom and get a second chance use it well: Bridge 4, Szeth. Amaram, Sadeas and T always had things well and easy, never had to truly struggle for the right to life or sleep at night or survive through the day. That made them get inflated egos and convinced them they were god's gift to humanity, causing them to use people like chest pieces and develop zero empathy. Which is ironic for T who has huge empath most of the time. But what does he do with that empathy? Help others? No, cry and feel sorry for himself. Thats another part of the problem: would be saviors. People that believe only they can save the world are almost always despicable people with only arrogance and some skill to have reached that mighty high opinion of themselves. The only character which is an outlier and that is simply a piece of crem is Moash. Of course, I wasn't surprised by what he did on OB, I was just reinforced. From the moment he tried to kill Kaladin on WoR when Kaladin had killed Syl I called him every single name you can imagine, and none of them pretty. I'm a bit fanatic on that topic, but betraying your friends is the biggest sin a person can do. Loyalty is the bedrock of everything good and pure: trust, love, friendship, selflessness. Destroy loyalty and there is nothing good in the world. Moash began down this path the moment Kaladin was lying at his feet dying in WoR and instead of stopping Moash stepped forward to finish him. After that there was a tiny chance of redemption by sacrificing himself, if he did what he did in hot blood. But the chance was tiny and he didn't even consider it, instead tossed it away to become Odium's dog. I never really saw Szeth as evil, or despicable, if anything I reluctantly admired him. He had a code and he followed it doggedly. It was cowardly, but...I can't help but admire it. He followed it when he hated it, he followed it when it was driving him insane, not just when it was easy or convenient. I can't help but admire that dedication. He just needed the right code to follow, and luckily with his second chance he picked a good moral compass . I had two lists of despicable people in Roshar. Those that pretend to save the world but are only after themselves was in order of most despicable to least: Gavilar, Amaram, Sadeas, T. And then Moash on his own as he was something even worse than those four. Although I need to rearrange my list after OB, thats my old list from WoR . I think I'm going to place Amaram and T even on spot 1 for now, and Gavilar delegated to spot 2, since as far as we know he wanted to destroy the world for his own glory but he didn't serve Odium. But need to think more on Amaram and T, although they are making it hard to decide who is more despicable.

I hadn't thought of this yet, but you are right. Szeth walking around Urithiru with Nightblood is going to show the true colors of a lot of people . If Malata and some Diagramists go nuts when they get close to Nightblood it would be hilarious. All of OB I thought that Malata's punishment should be for Szeth to kill her spren with Nightblood (we know this can happen via WoB) then kill her. After all, her spren seemed to be the one pushing her to be how she was and what she did. Why should only Malata be punished for it? Plus it would send a nice message. "If you serve Odium at least do it openly like the Skybreakers". I'm kind of bloodthirsty too . I also think Ash will be the Dustbringer, at the very least its unlikely she will be a lightweaver. She seems to hate been worshipped and all the past that it represents. She can probably become many orders, but lightweaver will be the last. However, after Eshonai's death I'm not going to take anything for granted. We've been sure forever she was going to be our Willshaper, then, boom. Dead. Edit: Why is it so many of these reputation titles are evil? Vanisher, Lord Prelan, Sons of Honor (almost flipped out when I had that one, but it was blessedly brief)