Spoolofwhool

We're talking about Mistborn. They can't use feruchemy.

What does the title of this topic have to do with the discussion it is initiating? In any case, it would be hard for a mistborn to stop a full shardbearer. Their best bet is likely to just stall for time until the shardbearer runs out of stormlight. They could also use coin, perhaps, to crash the shardplate in order to speed up the process. Shardplate would probably interfere with emotional allomancy targeting the wearer due to the amount of stormlight it holds. See this topic for more discussion on the matter.

Yes, that's a WoB. I'm just saying there's a more recent one. In any case, regarding the like a drab part of it, I think he's more contrasting the spiritual amount versus emotional state. It is possible though that emotional states are linked to spiritual, but there's nothing, as far as I can recall, that indicates that other than with drabs.

The same arguments exists for people deliberately putting them out there. Regardless, there still needs to be a reason for people to have wanted to put them out there and I don't think "Fear that they would be become voidbringers indoors" was an actual one. If they actually accepted and believed that they would've, they would have just killed them. Sticking them outside does literally nothing to solve that problem. I would have to have a copy of Edgedancer again to really argue this point any futher though.

Neither of these two are Cosmere, so this is not a concern. I suppose a hemalurgy-like power could exist in the Reckonerverse. (Calamity) We haven't seen enough of Rithmatist to say either way. In any case, it would not be hemalurgy, and as the different universes operate on different fundamental mechanics, no real links can be established. My opinion is that metal will always be the focus of hemalurgy as it is specifically the interaction between the Scadrial and Ruin which created it. No other manifestation of investiture appears to change focus by the world it is on, and I don't see why hemalurgy should either, even though it is slightly different. This has been done. Yes, it is possible to grant sapience to non-sapient creatures. However, I will note that how kandra obtain from sapience is in a unique manner, as their spikes do not grant increased intelligence. Rather, the spikes overcome a mental block which elevates them to sapience, essentially a side effect to the actual power the spikes grant. For other species you would need to specifically create copper spikes for intelligence and give them to the entities in question. Note: Mistwraiths are already sentient. The spikes just cause them to be sapient as a side effect. So you're asking whether you would be able to steal the hemalurgically-granted boon using hemalurgy? I have discussed this before, and reached no real conclusion. I think we would need a bit more information regarding the what is happening spiritually between the spike and the spiked person. My gut feeling is that you can't. The spiritual damage would actually kill people usually even if the physical damage didn't. I think. I can't find a source for this so don't quote me on it, but I think it is more recent than that old drab one. No reason, as far as I can, to think a survivor of hemalurgy, however that occurs, would be emotionally compromised somehow. Honestly, I can see it as Ruin preferring that people don't become depressed like that, as it just kind of halts their actions, and keeps them static. He prefers active people who are attempting to make changes, whom he can then manipulate to make changes which suit him. Also, the person subject to hemalurgy would have a compromised soul.

Them being outside in the middle of an unscheduled storm does not mean that people deliberately put them out there with the intention of killing them. As I pointed out before, no one believed Dalinar when he said they were dangerous.

"It was time to whip a god." - The God Engines The first line of the book, which really sets the moods I feel. It's really good book from what I recall, though I do need to reread it.

Shallan told him to leave them behind, not murder them. I see no reason to think they would've just left them outside to die, especially considering there were no predicted storms until the end of the Weepings. Furthermore, I don't recall anything which showed that happening. Edgedancer does not have an applicable argument since no one in that area believed Dalinar when he warned them of the Everstorm, so they would have no reason to throw their parshmen out to die. In any case, I found something applicable.

I believe Tvlakv in WoR kept his parshmen in the guarded carts. I presume that something like that is standard practice, and in normal structures they're kept inside. Do you have any reason to believe that they aren't kept indoors? I'm not seeing how that assumption is reached. Could you elaborate? The Everstorm is the reason why parshmen are transforming. Previously, having your parshmen out in a highstorm would do nothing, other than put them in harm's way.

Fixed that for you. Any how, I'm really confused by what has been going on since Thanatos has been replying in a really confusing way that skips some points made. If someone could sum up everything that could be cool. It's not necessarily this, but just that it does present information that slants emphasis of certain parts of it. Here's an actual example though: The Coppermind lists the Survival Shard as a shard, which is incorrect. You're going to be a bit more specific on which opinions. First of all, we've explained why we don't think colour is the source of investiture for awakening. Expand on your discussion why. The coppermind page is correct that it is consumed in the process, but I think this is an example of the Coppermind slanting information incorrectly, by combining breath and colour as the fuel for awakening, when it should've indicated that they are separate parts. Secondly, it hasn't actually been confirmed that Adonalsium created the Cosmere. Pretty good chance though, but you need to keep in mind that's it's not explicit.

I'm just going to point out something real quick. In my opinion, you're not adding anything to the discussion by simply posting definitions from the Coppermind, without adding your commentary on them. I've seen them before, I'm pretty sure Calderis has seen them, and we've formulated our opinions with that knowledge in mind. Without some argument as to why we should change our arguments based on that knowledge, there's no reason for us to. I'll comment on the one discussion you made. This does not exclude the possibility the stormlight that existed before their arrival is not the same as the stormlight which currently exists, due to their interference. We know for certain that Cultivation has interfered with the highstorms as she influences crem, so there's no reason to think they haven't performed other changes. Furthermore, there is no need for a manifestation of investiture to require the source of investiture to be of the shard which resulting in the formation of that manifestation of investiture. For instance, neither hemalurgy nor feruchemy appear to draw upon investiture from Ruin or Preservation in order to function, and we've received implicit confirmation that the nature of the users does not require an affiliation to either shard either.

I disagree with what you're postulating because that's not the makeup of a manifestation of investiture. Here's my opinion. Each manifestation of investiture has three necessary components: The user, the focus, and the fuel. User: The entity using the magic. Usually a sapient entity, but can be other objects. Focus: Something which somehow determines the outcome of the magic. Fuel: The default source of investiture which is used to power the magic. For example: Allomancy: The user is the allomancer. The focus is the metal they burn. The fuel is Preservation's power. To put it all together: The allomancer draws Preservation's power through the metal. The metal filters it, shaping the power such that it causes a specific effect, such as rioting, soothing, leeching, metal pushing/pulling, etc. Feruchemy: The user is the feruchemist. The focus is the metal they store into. The fuel is the feruchemist. The feruchemist converts some of themselves into investiture, which is then stored into the metal. I think each metal can only store the investiture derived from a certain part of their being, which determines which attribute is stored. Awakening: The user is the awakener. The focus is the command they use. The fuel is breath. The awakener creates a mental command and passes on breath to the target. The mental commands shapes what the awakened object does while the breath grants it the investiture required to perform the necessary actions, which are slowly consumed over time. A side-effect is that colour is consumed from a nearby source, though how it does is unknown, and the type of colour seems to have no effect as far as I'm aware. Surgebinding: The user is the surgebinder. The focus is the spren/bond*, and gems**. The fuel is stormlight. The surgebinder accesses the specific two surges through their focus, and uses stormlight to bind it, which consumes the stormlight in the process. Additionally, when binding the surge of transformation to soulcast, gems are required as an additional focus to determine the essence being created. *spren/bond are two contended foci. Honestly, I don't think it matters unless the same type of spren is able to create different bonds. **Gems aren't necessary for all surgebinding.

I'm pretty sure it's breath that is the fuel for awakening, which is why breath runs out eventually. Colour is just some side effect of the process which is consumed, like water on Taldain or heat on Roshar. Furthermore, the intermediary is suppose to shape the power. Colour doesn't. Whichever colour is consumed doesn't change the outcome of the awakening, unlike the command.

I see. Then do you have an explanation for the actual source of investiture for surgebinding as well as an explanation for how stormlight specifically shapes this power differently for each Knight Radiant? Otherwise, from how I see it if stormlight were the focus, then each Radiant holding stormlight would shape the power the same way, therefore resulting in no different powers across the different orders. @Calderis Is correct about my opinion on the matter.

Yeah, it's a confusion that comes up often enough. I blame literature which uses sentient when it means sapient.

It's been confirmed that the Nurse is the Terriswoman.

I believe the definition of splinters includes being sentient. Some people have argued against it, but I'm of that opinion. We'll need to get a concise answer.

Possibly, hasn't been confirmed though. Warbreaker spoilers.

Probably the latter. We know other shards have created splinters while still intact. Spren pre-Recreance were of Honor and Cultivation and continue to be as well, and they're splinters.

Honor cannot be picked up by another mortal because the person who killed the previous holder performed some action which spread the power. In contrast: Mistborn spoilers

Stormlight doesn't play the same role as metals though. In the Metallic Arts, the structure of the metals shapes the investiture, giving the specific effects. On the other hand, with stormlight, it is the source of investiture for processes which require it. And yes, while it hasn't been explicitedly stated that stormlight is of Honor and Cultivation, there is nothing which says it isn't currently, and the WoB I provided does point to that fact.

Returned are cognitive shadows and I believe there's a WoB that Szeth is not a cognitive shadow. If this is the case, this means that Szeth cannot be a Returned, even if there is some more general Cosmere term for it. I'll check for the WoB and get back.

@Thanatos I'm aware of that. However, i think that Cultivation and Honor have changed the composition of stormlight and highstorms since their arrival. Afterall, crem, a significant trait of highstorms which existed before Cultivation's arrival, is influenced by Cultivation now. I see no reason why stormlight couldn't have undergone a similar change. This would resolve the issue of being of a different shard that was brought up with regards to creating a spren.

We don't know. I believe the most accepted theory is that Trell is another shard, but we have received no confirmation of the matter.

We have specific confirmation that Taravangian was operating with increased intelligence on the day.