Spoolofwhool

WoB that the Wyrn has foresight abilities as a result of Dominion, indicating that Dominion likely has better-than-average foresight as well. Good thought on the Thrill and the Unmade regarding honor. It makes sense, based on what we know about shards, like how Ruin was misdirecting people on Scadrial to get what he wanted. This makes me wonder that perhaps Odium managed to influence the Heralds, which is why they abandoned the Oathpact. Another WoB that states that Odium wasn't on Sel when the chasm was formed. Also, before the chasm Elantrians were still a thing, which means that the Dor was already well established at that point. However, Sanderson was vague as to whether Odium began a process which eventually resulted in the chasm. With regards to the original point. I did find a WoB that skaze are pretty influential in Fjordell. However, I don't think skaze and seons were around until after the shattering of Dominion and Devotion.

Yes that's what I mean. Similar to how Scadrial uses metals and Sel uses symbols. It's just a lot more apparent on Roshar outside of the manifestations of investiture.

If you had actually gone back and read what I had posted previously, you would note that my opinion of him not using the lerasium directly to become an Elantrian and the requirement that he return to Sel to become an Elantrian has not changed at any point in this topic. I only agreed that he is studying the sDNA changing properties of lerasium and is using it for feruchemy as well, and being an Elantrian is an end goal. Now my reasoning for this is that in order to become an Elantrian, he would have to establish a spiritual connection to Sel and the Dor, something which probably needs to be done on Sel. Also I responded to zeppomarks question about his white hair being a mark of being an Elantrian with my reasoning why he couldn't be an Elantrian at those points, which as I have stated, does not contradict with anything I have said. So no, I'm not changing my opinion just so that I can tell people they're wrong, I'm disagreeing with the opinions of others when our opinions don't matter and offering proof on the matter. I guess I'm so contrary because my opinion on theories doesn't usually coincide. Also, I am agreeing with theories. Finally, I don't see why you are getting annoyed for zeppomarks. If he found my response to be rude, or in any way out-of-line, he can remark on it himself. Regarding me being insulting.

Interesting thought. The only issue I see with it though is that you're storing time related to physical movement, but not related to mental thought. How does that work? Clearly mental speed is being changed at the same amount as physical since you can perceive the physical slowness when storing.

I think it's just a metaphor. He's saying the room is still cold despite it being summer, but it isn't cold enough to feel like winter. He's not saying spring could actually transition to winter.

The WoB is that he avoids investing to get stuck to a world, because leaving after investing would weaken him I think. Anyways, that is in regards to previous cases. What is happening on Roshar is definitely different and most certainly looks like he's invested into it. Your math is only correct if the orbits are tangentially parallel but do not share a common centre (same shape, different size), only tangentially parallel in one place (like one is circular and the other is egg-shaped), or tilted axes. Otherwise, they would past closest 499 times every 500 years at a set interval. Tangentially parallel but tilted would result in two closest points in the orbits every, with a skip at the beginning of a cycle. I think. Haven't done any math yet. Would need to crunch numbers. Don't think the distance has to do with anything. I think shards can invest in a world they aren't on, but as I said it just means that if they aren't on the world they'll have a lot less power. That or they cannot go to far from the world.

There's a theory that shardplate is made from lesser spren related to the bonded spren. So windspren turn into shardplate for windrunners.

True, hemalurgy would be a surefire way as well. I don't think planetary connection would prevent other manifestations of investiture from appearing as long as they're already there in the sDNA genetic. It has been said that the genetics of one manifestation of investiture can be past to someone else on another planet. I believe the WoB in question was regarding Nalthis and allomancy. The thing is, if you're writing a proper theory topic, you really shouldn't add meaningless rule of cool items. It detracts from the point of the theory, its support, and the tone of theory. Hrm. Yes. Well, assuming you could use the shadow's congnitive to change your cognitive and by extension your sDNA, it could be possible to duplicate the effects of the nahel bond. You would gain the sDNA part of it. However, I don't think you would actually be able to do anything with it. The reason being is that I don't think you would drag the spren with you, and having the spren nearby is necessary for surgebinding, according to this. Even if it were possible, and the whole spren not being nearby stopping surgebinding is because they are continuously modifying your sDNA, which I doubt, and would allow you to have the surgebinding powers, you wouldn't be able to advance them without a spren. Also, yeah, you wouldn't have any shards either, just the stormlight. Also, pointing out that a KR's own shardplate doesn't interfere with his surgebinding I'm fairly certain. Just when someone else is wearing it. After, a windrunner in Dalinar's vision could lash in shardplate.

Don't think he's an Elantrian since he failed to do so at the end of Elantris then immediately left. Of course, in the 1000 odd years in-between that and Mistborn, or the 200-300 between Mistborn and Warbreaker he could've returned and done so. If he had, then there are no clues to the matter really. He doesn't actually dye his hair though, probably. He's theorize to possess a branch of lightweaving, so his appearances are just illusions.

This is essentially it. You summed up everything every nicely. I'll point out though that it isn't necessary for lerasium to be used. All that would be needed is for someone with an allomantic bloodline to go to Mai Pon and continue the bloodline there. Given enough time, and assuming the allomantic genetics aren't too weak, an augur misting with forgery abilities would be born. And yes, too much rule of cool has been employed in this thread unfortunately.

The concept of using a champion to fight as a proxy is not a novel concept, and I can see it develop and most, if not all worlds and within all cultures. Also, the two conversation don't really have anything to do with each other, other than talking about a champion. In one, the setting is one of stalling, the second is one of actual victory and defeat, all-or-nothing style. So no, I don't think those conversations are proof of some unknown connection between the worlds.

The magical symbiosis does seem like a fairly common theme throughout Roshar as a whole. Greatshells and their spren, and listeners and their form-changing with spren, all follow similar mechanics, which is probably the principle Roshar applies to developing manifestations of investiture.

@The One Who Connects You can search Theoryland for keywords instead of tags. It works a lot better. Common theory is that Odium is invested into Roshar. This is how voidbinding came to be as a manifestation of investiture and voidspren, as well as the other Unmade. While it's true that he didn't invest before to avoid being bound, the situation on Roshar is clearly different, possibly due to the circumstances surrounding the Oathpact. I think that Brandon was just referring to the broken power of Dominion and Devotion here. First of all, he does love obfuscating stuff for us. Secondly, unless Odium had found someone else he trusted to take up the unnamed shard's power and bring it to Sel, there's no way he could've done so. The reason being is that I don't think it is likely that Odium would risk taking up another shard's power, even for a short time, and risk changing his intent. Of course, another possibility is that Odium went to Sel with another shard to shatter Devotion and Dominion together, then turned on his ally and shattered him/her as well. I doubt this though as well. All the WoBs I've seen regarding Sel indicate that there are only two shards there. Nothing indicates that there could be a third. Of course, it hasn't been specifically stated that there are only two, so it's possible, just unlikely. Overall, I do agree with the theory that Odium has an ability which allows him to shatter shards more easily. However I do not currently think it is as proposed so far.

The thing is though, gold is about viewing the past based on different choices you could have made, unless of course people don't know about gold to say for certain. This is of course entirely possible since gold allomancy is probably not a field people put much research into. However, assuming that this is correct, this means that your gold shadow can be changed based on possibilities within your control. The pDNA, cDNA and sDNA you are born with are not yours to control, so they would not change in your gold. The only possibility I could think of where it would, is where you could have encountered an opportunity within your life, based on choices, to gain or alter your sDNA. For example, someone who is knowledgeable of hemalurgy could burn gold and see themselves with additional powers because they used hemalurgy in that alternate past. Or someone on Roshar may see themselves as a surgebinder, having made choices which allowed them to bond with a spren.

I could be wrong about the muscle fibers and it is instead screwing with your gait speed and the like. So your rotational muscular movement around joints is somehow increased without increasing the force you're applying. Like I said, a lot of magic probably goes into it, since physical speed is fairly vague.

WoB that there were no seons when Odium visited Sel. I'll comment more when I have time to.

Another point to consider is that it has been stated, though I can't recall how explicitly, that the spren chose to nahel bond with humans instead of listeners. This is, afterall, what led the listeners to join Odium's forces against them. Now while it's possible that the spren chose humans because listeners weren't compatible, I honestly don't think so. WoB does loosely indicate that listeners are compatible. However, bonding with a listener will more than likely result in something different than a human who bonds with the same spren. Possibly still a surgebinder, though perhaps controlling different surges, or being able to control the ones differently. Overall, like everything else Roshar, there really isn't enough information to form a concise theory.

I see. Did take a look through the forum quickly and did note the fair amount of people who bring up that it is a hybrid of Cultivation/Honor for the same reasons. I still don't agree mind you, and those WoBs don't really state anything either way other than the fact that there is a hybrid system on Roshar. In any case, I don't think continuing to discuss this will bring any change to either of our respective opinions, so I'm going to leave this to rest. I guess that sums up the discussion on the manifestations of investiture of Roshar.

It would, though I think steelrunning has mainly to do with storing the muscle speed in the limbs. Speed in the torso isn't changed. Can't remember if Sazed was chewing more slowly though in WoA.

The thing is though, steelrunning is only the storing and tapping of physical speed, not mental speed. So it isn't really compressing time, While I imagine that it is altering your mental state slightly to compensate for the increases and decreases, and maintain reaction times, more or less, there isn't a giant shift in mental perception compared to physical movement. Otherwise, if there were, then Sazed wouldn't feel like he were moving through molasses, and instead just have a perception akin to how the outside of a slow bubble looked to Wax. My opinion is that it is steel is storing your physical capacity to move quickly; how quickly your muscle fibers can act. Magic slows them down while you're storing, and when you're tapping it speeds them up. That's basically though the limit of how much science can explain this.

So, this is from the Natural Fabrials topic, regarding surgebinding. First of all, I don't recall any WoBs that state that surgebinding is hybrid manifestation of investiture. The closest I've gotten is this, which just states that spren maybe from either or both shards can form nahel bonds as a result of the preexisting system, which doesn't prove anything. As to "the process of trying to acquire or develop a quality or skill", I'm assuming you're referring to the surgebinder following the ideals of the spren they are bonded to? You could look at it that way, but there's another way, which I feel makes more sense. The spren you're bonded brings with it a set of ideals to follow. You become stronger as you honor those ideals, and gain more surgebinder strength. As to bonding, it does on the Coppermind that Honor's intent is "Honor seeks to uphold oaths and agreements, and to make things binding." While there is no reference for this, I don't think the Coppermind would put something that is assumed without stating so. Also, "the process of trying to acquire or develop a quality or skill" is really vague. I feel like Cultivation's intent and what she would bring to a manifestation of investiture would be a bit more precise. I mean, you could argue that by that, aondor is of Cultivation, since they need to be cultivated into Elantrians first. Dahkor require the cultivation of their fancy bone runes and growths to use their magic.

I'm going to table the discussion about surgebinding into the Theory of Roshar topic so this one can be kept on track regarding listeners. As to nahel bonding and Listeners, it was stated that the reason why, so far there are not nahel bonds with Listeners, is simply because the spren decided not to. This is, after all, why Listeners allied with Odium. I'm going to leave this thread for now. I'm just going to reiterate my original point. I don't think machine fabrials are a natural result of Roshar's investiture before Honor, Odium or Cultivation arrived. The reason I think so is because it is a bit too artificial compared to other phenomenon of spren bonding which are naturally occurring. Overall though, I don't think we have enough information regarding fabrials and the manifestations of investiture on Roshar to really say for certain, and chances are it's not going to be what any of us think.

I honestly disagree with any idea that you could create a gold shadow with a different manifestation of investiture. The main point is that I believe the gold shadow is an alternate cognitive of you, based on choices you could've made over your life. Manifestations of investiture have to do with spiritual. Even if the gold shadow is actually spiritual, it still couldn't have a different power, since that is something completely out of your control. What you could do though. If you're burning gold and malatium, is possibly, though honestly I doubt this, merge your cognitive with someone else's malatium shadow. If possible, I don't think you should do it anyways.

He got the bead in WoA, which means he's been using to hit Warbreaker, Stormlight Archives and Mistborn Era 2. 3 out of 5 times in novel is pretty good so far, considering it's over multiple worlds and around 1300 years. It does state that he does land in some areas and not find anything, but that could've been before Lerasium, since he hit 3 times in 300 years after Lerasium.

I don't see this. As far as I can tell, there are two main theories regarding how feruchemical strength is exhibited. Either feruchemical strength represents how efficient you store an attribute, or it is the limit that you can store at a given moment. Personally I ascribe to the first, since it seems to make the most sense to me and I vaguely recall a quote in SoS or BoM basically stating so regarding hemalurgy, which I haven't found again. Regardless of whichever theory is correct, it doesn't matter since either one could result in the storage of aluminium feruchemy, though the second would require hemalurgic addition. If the first is true: All you do is store is store all your identity as you would normally do, then store a part, not all, of your aluminium feruchemical ability into nicrosil. You wouldn't store as much identity as your losing, but that doesn't matter. You would be able to store aluminium feruchemically very quickly as you could store nearly all of it at a moment, keeping only a slight bit to be able to keep storing identity. If the second is true: This is where it gets a bit more difficult. You would have to spike yourself with a hemalurgic spike with an aluminium feruchemical charge, or many, until your aluminium feruchemical strength is at least about 100%.Once you've done that, you store all your identity as normal, then store a portion aluminium feruchemical ability, with the maximum being what keeps you at 100%. This method would result in a much slower storing of aluminium feruchemical ability however, unless you spike yourself a lot. Overall, I disagree with your idea that it is impossible. I guess though that you're operating on the premise that storing an investiture is all or nothing. However, I don't see how that is the case. Every other feruchemical attribute has its range of how much you're storing at a time, including memories. In addition, we know that there can be gradients of investiture strength. The most stated one has been allomancy, with the repeated statement that allomancers were far stronger than ones today. However, I can imagine at least a few other manifestations of investiture could be prone to lesser strength and inefficiency. Further examples of inefficiency or lessened power of other manifestations of investiture in spoilers: EDIT: WoB that feruchemical strength changes efficiency, not limit of storage rate.