Spoolofwhool

Except that it seems pretty clear that the first Radiants came after the first Desolation since they were copying the Heralds' powers of Surgebinding to protect the people as well. Unless the idea is that the further Desolations after the first came as a result of the Radiants? I have to agree though, I don't get the feeling that they gave up their oaths as a sacrifice to protect people. I'm still of the opinion that it the Recreance was tied to them growing corrupt, but there was a specific trigger which initiated it.

Old guy in a random place dispensing useful information for seemingly no reason? It's obviously Hoid. About the Talenat exclamation, it's possible he had a rep for bearing agonies because of his stubbornness and toughness, so it might be that and not knowledge of his extended stint in Damnation.

True, it is a lot more boring, so I doubt that is what it will turn out to be. However, based on the information we have, I think it is the most likely scenario. The true scenario probably has a bit more to do about Honor and him abandoning the Radiants, as in one of the lines I quoted earlier.

True, true. They could've made the group decision to end their oaths simultaneously because something made them realize how far they had strayed from their ideals. Maybe they found they couldn't live with the troubles they had been causing so basically gave up. At the same time though, they united the remnants of the world by making themselves a great target of hatred by everyone else.

They grew too corrupt and broke their oaths, killing their spren. They weren't forced to lose their powers, they lost them as a result of their actions.

Of course you're going to find books that are not up to your standard of being good. I read a ton of books, and have found plenty which are very poor, not just compared to incredible pieces such as SA, but also to average ones. My issue is that I'll get bored in certain situations so I'll read anyways. Also, what helps me finish books that I don't find good is that I create a self-imposed rule that I will always finish a book I start reading, even if I find it to be bad, unless it is actually so bad I feel pained reading it. This is the only exception along with the possibility of me losing access to the book. What helps, I find, in my case is that I have a very strong curiosity. Once I get far enough into a book, I will want to finish, no matter how bad I realize it becomes or has always been, just to know how it ends. However, it is true that I am discerning while looking for books. At the same time though, I recognize that I'm probably not going to find anything interesting so I just grab books which seem mildly interesting. I do get surprised when some of the books turn out well better than expected. Bad books are also really useful. After I read one, I like to take a moment in my spare time to reflect on why I found it so bad. Usually the answer is simple like "It was just a boring cliche plot," but sometimes it takes me a bit to fully articulate to myself why it was bad. For your last questions, I can't really say anything. I don't usually talk to people about the books I read. Also, I don't think impressing your opinion of a book you like being superior to their book as being useful at all. Every has their tastes and not everyone finds SA to their liking. You can't force someone to like a book any more than you can force them to like a specific song. Overall, sounds like your standards are way too high. Maybe I just don't take books as seriously or aren't as discerning as you, but it sounds like you need to take a step back. If I may suggest some books you may be interested in as lesser to SA, but still good: The Culture novels by Iain M Banks are interesting. While they are not layers within layers stories like SA, they present fairly abstract images. They are a sci-fi, so perhaps the shift in genre would not be for you. Player of Games is a good start I'd say. If you want any more recommendations, feel free to ask.

How is that spoilery? It's in one of the first scenes with Sazed at the start of WoA. I agree that the trailers feel a bit decentralized. TFE trailer definitely sells the idea the best. WoA is a lot more vague.

I believe it was stated that Nale was killing the potential surgebinders because he thought that their existence would bring about another Desolation. I believe what occurred is that the Radiants simply grew corrupt and lost their way, without the guidance of the Heralds and Honor, and the need for their protection in the form of Desolations. There are a few quotes from the books which support this: It is, of course, possible, that the Radiants were being somehow being sent to Damanation like the Heralds once were. I don't see that though. First of all, there was no need at that point. As far as everyone was concerned, the Last Desolation had passed and the Oathpact was over. Only the Heralds knew the truth. There would've been no need for the Radiants to have given their oaths up at that point. If the spren were truly that concerned, they would've had the oaths be broken Desolations earlier, not when it did, at the Recreance. However, like I said, based on the quotes, it sounds like the Radiants just got lax, corrupt and broke their oaths one by one, until finally they were forced to give up their shards, and faded away.

I disagree that Taravangian's innate investiture is changing every day. First of all, the obvious question is: "Where is the extra/excess investiture coming from or going?" The obvious answer, of course, is: The Nightwatcher and/or Cultivation. However, this honestly doesn't make sense to me. There is no indication that the Nightwatcher creates a connection to the person. By all indications, the boon/curse of Old Magic is a one-time change. There is no lasting, continuous effect of investiture change, assuming there is even a change of investiture at all. Regarding being able to see the future, I don't think this is the case. My main reason for this belief is the fact that, as far as I can recall (Don't have my WoR with me), Taravangian believes that the Diagram was created as a result of his supreme intellect alone, and not as a result of true prediction. What this tells me is that there is no information in the Diagram that Taravangian found to be unrelated to material he already knew beforehand. No completely absurd instructions or predictions. It has been argued in this thread that there is no way that he could've known about more esoteric and ancient information such as the Shin Stone Shaman, or the Honorblades. I disagree. His palace contains largest library on Roshar. This library is known to contain information regarding voidbringers so it is nowhere near a stretch to say that it contained information about the Heralds, Listeners, or the Knight Radiants. We also know that he is well enough versed about Shin to speak their language and know their proverbs. Also, Shin religion is known in Roshar outside of Shinovar, and once again, there are Shin philosophers and scholars so it is likely that there are more books in the library which contain details about that as well. Time, is also not a concern. He rules a city-state. Not a very big domain. Also, I feel like it has been made fairly clear that he is a considerable scholar, since he was working with Gavilar before his assassination on the problem of bringing about the Desolation. To sum, it's not impossible that he didn't know all the required background information before writing the Diagram, and his belief that it was a work of intellect and not prophecy supports that former. The thing is though that he isn't predicting every possibility that will occur. He's determining which path will result in the highest chance of survival for the Rosharan population by a seed group. This severely limits what possibilities he has to consider. Also, people don't act randomly. At large-scale populations, herd mentality can be used to calculate how the overall population acts. This is probably how he calculated how to break Jah Keved, and even estimate the number of factions which would result. The study of mob and herd mentality is an actual psychological science with multiple theories as to how it can be predicted. I do admit though that there is a possibility that the Old Magic may have influenced him towards certain possibilities. Just have to say, this is the most amusing thing I've seen you say. To answer your question, I'll take a step out of Cosmere theory and into real biology. There is a part of your nervous system called the Autonomic Nervous System. As its name suggests. it controls the functions of your body which you do not need to consciously think about. These include breathing, heartbeat, and digestion. In other words, intellect and consciousness is not required for these functions to occur. This is why you do not stop breathing, or have your heart stop beating the moment you lose consciousness. Nonetheless though, these functions can fall under conscious control. A common example is that most people can stop their breathing, though only temporarily, and not to death. After some time the autonomic nervous system will either reassert, or you'll fall unconscious. But, as stated, consciousness and intellect can only control these functions, the functions are not reliant on consciousness and intellect to occur.

Good point about allomancy, feruchemy and surgebinding. Small correction though. Spren are the only thing that are of Honor and Cultivation. Surges are natural forces of Roshar and unrelated to the shards.

We might see their shardholders together. I'm going to amend my previous statement of "little shard movement" to "little shard movement until after SA 10" Yes it would be cool to see them together, and we probably will. I imagine Brandon has some master end-point to Cosmere.

I find the idea that Harmony would leave Scadrial and go anywhere else in the Cosmere extremely unlikely. The main reason is because he's invested into Scadrial. We know from Brandon that Odium didn't invest into a world intentionally so that he wouldn't get tied to one. This indicates that either a shard cannot leave a world/system they are invested into, or if they do leave, they become separated from a significant portion of their power so would be extremely weak. This means that for Harmony to leave and actually remain useful, he would need take back his investiture, potentially destroying Scadrial, definitely removing the metallic arts from play. This would mean that Mistborn Era 3/4 wouldn't be able to happen. Moving on there is also the issue of why Harmony would want to leave. You bring up points, but they don't seem that amazing. It seems to be that Harmony has a fairly strong "non-interference" going on with Scadrial. Even when the people of the Basin were lagging behind in Harmony's timeline for technology, he didn't do anything about it. As such, I don't see why he wouldn't extend that "non-interference" to the whole of Cosmere. Overall, not only do I not think that Harmony would leave Scadrial, even if he could without undoing the metallic arts, I agree that even if he did, he wouldn't go to Roshar since we know that place is going to be a lot more Cosmere-removed. In general, I don't think we're going to see a lot of shards moving between worlds, other than whoever Trell is and maybe Odium.

If I recall correctly, the inquisitors went north to kill the Synod in Well of Ascension, which is why they weren't around during Elend becoming king and everything. Also, they didn't gain feruchemical steel powers until after Ruin was freed and gave them the knowledge necessary. None the less, the Synod really should've prepared themselves better.

It was said though in BoM that a twinborn would have an effect along with their powers. Either that or the kandrz who wanted Wayne's bones didn't really know what he was talking about. I thought the Ars Arcanum talked about compounding on both Scadrial and Roshar though.

Yes, zinc could work in the manner you describe, though just because you can think fast enough to analyze what how they're acting, doesn't mean you can actually act fast enough. On the other hand, steel gives you the speed to strike them. Even if they recognize that you're going to perform three strikes at three different locations around you in one instant, they wouldn't be able to actually act fast enough. Also, steel likely gives a slight increase in mental processing like Atium, so they could probably avoid any blocks the Atium user makes. Of course, if you really wanted to be efficient at killing Atium users, just be a full feruchemical or hemalurgically gain the appropriate powers and tap zinc and steel. Really makes me wonder the synod had so much trouble against the inquisitors. Probably spent too much time scholaring and not enough time learning how to not die.

Don't think so. Feruchemical zinc controls mental speed relating to leaps in ideas and the like. Reflexes and other things physical are controlled by feruchemical steel, so that would be what you need to beat an Atium burner.

I think you meant to say WoR whenever you said WoK since in WoK they never met or even knew each other existed.

I don't see anything wrong with this phrase. He's just using "earth" instead of "ground" unless it's actually capitalized as the proper name and you didn't quote it accurately? Uppercase does matter contextually. A known case of something weird like that which Brandon has talked about is the fact that a character described "mooning" when Scadrial has no moons.

I can't remember what the exact passage was, but it was near the start when the other kandra came to brief Wax. He said that any person with two powers has an effect, and Wax responded that he couldn't compound. The kandra then responded with something along the lines of "nonetheless, you will have an effect since you two powers" That implies to me that compounding is an effect, though I admit it may not be.

The Listeners, whom the Parshendi are a group of, is the old people who were on Roshar before humans arrive. Humans are the new people. I believe all the sentient species (though technically there is only one since they can inter-breed) were setup before Odium arrived. Parshmen were technically not around before the Oathpact, since at that point all Listeners were bonded to a spren. Parshmen are Listeners without a spren. It's possible that Odium changed the Rosharans, though I think Honor and Cultivation has more of an effect. Odium had more of an effect on Listeners by giving them the voidspren after they came to him for power.

Interesting you asked this as I asked myself this question awhile back. You are correct I think. A full Mistborn or a full Feruchemist should have 120 effects if we're just considering the 16 base powers, and both should have 496 powers. It's possible that they do, but the effects are more subtle with feruchemy and allomancy. In any case, we do know what 16 of the effects are, the known compounding of burning a metalmind to produce a feruchemical charge. At least, that's what the kandra in BoM was implying. There's also a question of whether each group of powers produces an effect as well. Another thing is whether hemalurgically gained powers will also produce effects, though I guess they do since Marsh can compound Atium.

WoB that Odium arrived at Roshar well after Honor and Cultivation.

Eh. True, it is pretty cheap. I hadn't seen it before though which is probably why I found it attractive. If I saw it again, I probably wouldn't care for it. Tbf though, if you're watching AoS for the plot, you probably should be watching something else. Self-fulfilling prophecy because of the knowledge of the prophecy are pretty poor in general though.