Spoolofwhool

My impression was that innate investure is the breath of life/soul/sDNA (not Nalthis breath though it is related)(not sure about the last)that everyone has. Kinetic investiture is the investiture used for abilities. When using Nightblood, he takes your kinetic investiture (stormlight, breath, tapped feruchemical charge, allomantic gain, etc) then your innate investiture, which kills you. Hemalurgy and breath both affect your innate investiture, with hemalurgy taking some of it, and drabs having reduced innate investiture. I'll try to get some WoBs in a hour, busy now.

I've already explained what I mean by multipliers, but I'll go over it again when I get the quote from Wax. Or I'll realize I was wrong as abandon this point altogether.

Regarding the Wax quote, I'm going to try to pull it today, probably in about 9-10 hours. Regarding multipliers, it seems to me that Brandon is generally talking about feruchemy being about multipliers. Also, I found a reddit where Peter was talking about some theory regarding weight storage and how it was impossible. Someone asked whether it was wrong because feruchemy is about multipliers, and Peter agreed. I can pull that later if need be. I'll be honest though, I do want it to be additive/subtractive since that makes more sense, it's just that I'm going with what we have been informed, or what I'm perceiving that we are being informed as it being.

First I noticed was in the Ars Arcanum for Alloy of Law, which described Scadrial as having three manifestations of investiture. I believe there is also at least one WoB which uses that term, though I'll have to take a look. If you think about it, it makes sense since the magic systems are what appears after a shard invests in a world.

WoB that he was ascended.

Is this Secret History or something else?

3. Tap the Well of Ascension. It's a limited ascension because you're touching a limited pool of Preservation's power, but it does count as enough for ascension.

As you just said, correct misinformation. What you said implied that hemalurgy always kills and that damage to the spiritweb is the only effect of Ruin's intent on hemalurgy. Also, I don't know why you're so hung up on the fact we haven't seen hemalurgy not kill that there isn't proof it doesn't have to kill when we have a WoB that says it doesn't have to kill.

No it doesn't, because you are ignoring two major points, one of which was inadvertently lost when I posted without me realizing so I'll say it again. First, according to Wax, he can store half his weight (50%), to double his weight (200%) for the same amount of time. This indicates that it is a multiplier, not an additive, or Wax just can't tell his weight accurately. However, more important is this WoB which I meant to post, which says that feruchemy is about multipliers.

Right. Denth was in for getting a crack at Vasher I think. My theory is that he knew that if there was a reasonable threat to the God King's trove of breaths, Vasher would have to step in to protect it. Denth would then get his chance to avenge Arsteel. Jewel was originally with them because she was in love with Arsteel, stuck around after he died and got turned into a lifeless. I imagine Jewel probably left with Clod because she didn't want to get between Denth and Vasher's fight. We know that she went to Yesteel at the end to try to awaken more of Arsteel in Clod. [source]

Does it really matter the order though? At the end of the day, it boils down to the fact that the shard and the world mix a bit of themselves together and something really cool and shiny comes out. I just ordered it the way I did because my first understanding of manifestations of investiture were based on shard intent + world. Also, hemalurgy doesn't have to kill, and the Ruin's intent influences the fact that power is lost in transfer as well as spiritweb damage.

Right. Thing is though, it has been stated that in Alloy of Law by Wax that you can halve your weight to double it later on for the same time, which doesn't work with what you're saying. What you're talking about is subtractive/additive. We understand it when it's additive/subtractive. The confusion arose when it became multipliers. Also, I found some contradicting WoBs. First WoB says feruchemy is additive/substractive. Second WoB say that feruchemy is about multipliers, like what Wax was talking about. Checking the dates, it seems the one about addition/subtraction was said well before at HoA release, with the others all being around AoL release. This indicates to me that between those points, Brandon changed his mind about how it works. I do understand how time is being lost. I didn't know about the loss at compounding, but understood once I was informed earlier. However, this does still beg the slight question of how it can be still considered end-neutral with the multipliers, but I think my last post explained it. The confusion about losing time is long past. The current confusion is about multipliers.

@Blightsong I understand what you're saying, and I agree with it, but I'm not sure you're fully grasping what I'm saying so I'm just going to write it all out. That way we can focus on it fully. We know how manifestations of investitures come to be. A shard invests into a planet, and as a result of the investiture, the planet creates a manifestation of investiture (magic), with the base concept of the magic based on the intent of the shard. However, what I'm proposing that planets also have a specific aspect they add to a manifestation of investiture, like a flavor. Now this flavor isn't necessarily something that is unique to the planet, just like a quirk the planet has. The thing is though, when this flavor is applied to the creation of a manifestation of investiture, it is a part of what determines how the investiture which fuels the magic can be accessed or manipulated. It isn't necessarily the focus for the magic, but it plays a part. So if we look at some of the worlds, we can determine its flavor. Scadrial's for instance is metallic, atomic structure. This is apparent in allomancy, feruchemy, and hemalurgy. Sel's is symbology, with forms conveying different meanings, and being linked together. Roshar, I'm less sure about. However, I think it has to do with spren, and bonding and binding them. This is shown with surgebinding, fabrials and the natural spren bonds which occur. In addition, this WoB indicates that the spren has to be close by for surgebinding to occur, perhaps because it needs to reinforce the bond. Now taking into account your comment about how metallic structures aren't required to use allomancy, I think you missed what I was saying. What I am talking about is taking into account only the manifestation of investiture by itself, ignoring any possible influences from other manifestations, shards, or anything else. The base form. Sure, Preservation's mists allow you to use allomancy without metals, or honorblades allow you to surgebind without a spren. But those require outside intervention, outside of the scope of what the manifestation of investiture was designed for. It's taking advantage of the fact that all manifestations investitures are essentially the same power at their roots, and shards can supplement that power. Hopefully this makes sense. If not, please, break it down and explain where I went wrong.

I think that Shu-Korath is worshipping Devotion, just that they aren't aware of it. Bit of background, the precepts of Shu-Korath is the unity of the world though love. This is a contrast to Shu-Dereth which believes in unity through obedience of a single hierarchy. So Shu-Korath, believes in Domi, their god and protector. The name Domi is based from the aon Omi, which means love. However, I do not think that they are aware of the whole Shard existence. It is that difference that Brandon and Ashe was referring to. The difference between seeing Domi as a powerful divine figure who lovingly protects humankind, and the shard Devotion who, in a sense, created the seons. tl;dr They are all worshiping the concept of Devotion as a god. Only the seons know of the shard Devotion. Followers of Shu-Korath just think it's a god.

Interestingly enough, if you started with a Augur Bloodmaker twinborn (Gold/Gold), you could create an army of Augur Bloodmakers through hemalurgy. Providing you had enough gold of course. Here's the WoB that spiking someone to charge a hemalurgic spike doesn't disrupt their spiritual identity nor prevent them from using other manifestations of investiture. The process is fairly simple of course. You make sure the original Augur Bloodmaker has plenty of gold metalminds with good charges, with at least some pierced into him. The process from there is pretty simple. You spike him for one of the gold abilities, wait for him to use the charges to heal the spiritual and physical damage, then spike him for the other. You would just have to make sure you don't run out of metalmind charge, at least when he's currently without feruchemy. Otherwise, you would have to go find an unkeyed gold metalmind, which probably isn't that common.

Here's the WoB. It's listed on the coppermind page of hemalurgy. Interestingly enough, and completely non-related, I finally found a WoB which says that feruchemical strength is a measure of storing efficiency. Been looking for that for ages.

I don't think forgery could even replicate someone else's identity. Forgery essence marks use your spiritual identity as a base, with modification. I suppose if holding the essence mark doesn't matter, then you could try to apply someone else's spiritual identity, but I don't think it would even hold for a moment. Not to mention that to make the essence mark you would need to know nearly everything about them. It eould probably be easier just to hemalurgically spike them and add their identity to yours, since we know hemalurgy does steal identity and grant access to metalminds.

They would probably use to it contain extra muscle and flesh if they're posing as someone small and have too much. Otherwise, not sure what else they would keep there.

I just realized someone else about your full lashing idea. You have to make sure you're anchoring your upper body. If you just apply a full lashing to your feet and push from standing, you could be defeated... literally. Of course, it wouldn't matter much since you have stormlight to regrow it, but I'm sure it would suck.

So if we're still going on the same premise. Cadmium bubble up means normal time centre with slow time around. Cadmium down means just fast time centre. Since the ratio of time is the same between fast and slow, relative to you at the centre, people within the range of the cadmium bubble would always be moving at the same slowness.

Yes, it's essentially the some, though with the added advantage that you wouldn't need anchors, you would just bring your own, and they could never rip out.

I don't think we saw any mention of it.

Not sure if this idea came out. A surgebinder capable of manipulating the surge of adhesion while being a steel/iron allomancer. Allomantic duraluminin would probably also be necessary. This person could take a pair of coins, "glue" them anywhere with a full lashing, then push/pull on them to destroy whatever the coins are stuck to. While this would cause stress on the person, stormlight healing and strengthening would help. Overall, you could destroy a lot of things with your allomancy, without needing preset anchors. Nor would you need to worry about the anchors getting ripped out before the whole structure breaks, since the full lashing would keep things together.

I still don't understand why you would drop the cadmium bubble. As far as I can tell, keeping it up would basically the yield the same result. The only benefit would be that you say cadmium.

That's what I used to think to, that it was subtractive/additive, since that made the most sense end-neutralwise and based on the descriptions on how feruchemy works in-book. Then there was WoB and AoL which said they were multiplicative and I got confused. The only one truly end-neutral is copper. Also, think in terms of multiplication screws with my understanding of Atium as well, though I think I just need to think about it more EDIT. I just realized that you could qualify that feruchemy is end-neutral when you take into account the lesser returns when you amplify the tapping. Consider. As I point out, at lower tap rate, there is a net increase in how much attribute you are taking out versus how much you put in. This means that you are gaining an end-positive effect. However, at higher tap rates, you end up losing a bit, and I imagine once you really amplify it, it becomes end-negative. Now when you put its end-positive aspect and its end-negative aspect together, you get end-neutral. I still don't like it though.