DeTess

ITIAH, just so I understand correctly, you're saying that it would be safe for the Synod to claim if one of their members got accused of talking in a doc (and therefore it would be desirable for them to claim when threatened)?

@Elandera, the double fill action still requires you to fill normally the next day. So a pewter arm taking the double fill action during a night would still be unable to take an action the next night if he wants to actually benefit. ITIAH, I agree that Brass (and to a lesser degree Bronze) is more useful for an elim team, but there's also an ostensibly village group with a Doc called the Synod (though the rules suggest that there might be one or more elims among them), so there might be some Brass among them as well.

The advantage of villagers using the extra kill instead of the elims is that the villagers would use it to take down suspicious targets, while the elims would try to limit information gained by the village or kill players they perceive as a threat. Even if the generic kill ends up only hitting villagers throughout the entire game, it'd still make a big difference if the villagers are calling the shots, or the elims are. Also, I just realized, stocking up on pewter the way Elandera described isn't actually possible. Storing pewter robs you of your night action, so you'd basically exchange storing two charges of pewter over two cycles into maybe storing two charges of pewter over 2 cycles.

I considered the case of an elim pewterarm, but unless we're dealing with a very extreme situation, burning them down could be done quickly, and if necessary they could be ignored until they're the last elim left, allowing the village to keep him roleblocked while hitting them with two kills a cycle. I agree that people should of course use their best judgement about what actions they should take.

Alright, game mechanic thoughts (yeah, I know. 'Who are you and what have you done with Rand!' ). The general mechanics of feruchemists means that its possible to figure out who can hold which powers relatively easily. This is very useful (I'll touch on this more when talking about copper), but its useful for both village and elims. I'd suggest we keep speculation as to someone's role out of the main thread unless it's part of your rationale for accusing someone. There's also the problem that many powers mess with someone's vote. We should keep this in mind when lynching someone, and we should work to make sure that the main candidate (if there is one) has a significant lead, as any number of votes could scatter all over the place. Iron: Iron is one of the vote manipulation powers, but it's one that works by filling it. It has no other fill conditions, so someone could decide to try and fill it at the last moment to remove a vote. Tapping it is a protection against vote manipulation, which might be useful later on if the elims prove to have vote manipulation. Steel: Since a maximum of two PM's can be created each cycle, the ferring can contribute significantly to the village's ability to converse in private. I don't have much else to say about this one. Tin: You've got a rolescan and an alignment scan. In your position I'd start out by saving up for performing an alignment scan, but as the game progresses it might be possible to figure out the kind of roles some elims have, so the single charge scan becomes more efficient in that case. You should also try to find a PM partner ASAP, just so you can get around the limitation of having to choose between filling or using tin. Pewter: pewter is a tricky case. Like tin, it can't both fill up the metalmind and use a charge in the same cycle, but it has a rather powerful effect. Given the relatively small size of this game, I think going for 4 charges is a trap unless you started with at least 2 already. This game probably won't last too long, and you'll probably get more mileage out of single-cycle protects. I'd start out with filling, and use your charges towards the end of the game, where the odds should be more in your favor. Zinc: More vote manipulation. Their 3-charge in particular is rather powerful, as it can turn a 3-vote lead into a tie. Like pewter, I recommend storing up in the early game so that you've got this when it counts. Just remember that as long as you're storing, your vote won't got through, so keep that in mind if you're trying to get someone lynched. Brass: Personal protection from tin-scans isn't that useful for a villager, but protecting someone else might be. I don't recommend using this power just because you can, however. Sure, you might stop an elim from figuring out an important role, but you might also stop a tin-ferring from confirming someones alignment. Use this one with caution and thought. Bronze: Bronze is interesting. It could be used to try and brute-force the general night-kill, or any other restrcited action the user might want to take You can't take a night action while you're filling though, so you only come out just ahead (you exchange 4 night actions for 5 if you start with a charge of 0). Copper: I honestly believe this is the most useful power for the village. If you can get the 5-charge ability of, I'ts my opinion you should immediately share your results with the thread. It would allow for a decent amount of villagers to be cleared, while the elims would have a lot more trouble hiding, as using their powers marks them as suspect. general action Kill: only one of these can happen each turn. I'd caution everyone to not use this one unless they've got a good idea about the target, but there's no way the elims won't be putting in at least one of these in, so ideally we'd have at least a couple of villagers using this one to balance any elim attempts to brute force it out. Roleblock: Pretty much the same as the kill. The village should use this, or the elims probably will, but it should be used with caution. Double fill: It is my personal recommendation that everyone who isn't filling copper keeps their hands off of this one until we've got a copper 5-charge action through That'd make it easier for the elims to get double-fill actions through, but I'd expect them to focus on the kill and roleblock to start with. Getting that copper scan through by D3/4 would really be that valuable in my opinion. Protect: This one's very useful, especially given how many of these actions we get. If you don't have something else to do with your night action, i'd recommend using this one on someone you trust. So tl;dr: Copper is cool, and I believe the village should help those with copper get their 5-charge ability off ASAP by not using the double fill action if they aren't going to fill copper.

That's kinda the kind of scenario I'd like to avoid. Having the starting elims know who everyone is would help keeping things a secret, but an active doc would still show plenty of hints if the elims aren't effortlessly coasting to victory, as people discuss and coordinate how to move votes in certain directions. Then there's the fact that some people have recognizable writing patterns that might out them*. I don't disagree the the idea of the role is neat, but its not a balancing factor if there's nothing preventing the mole from outing the entire elim team if he could. One way a mole in the elim team could work is if the mole had some special win-con that prevented them from just outing everyone. In a game without PM's, making them want to survive, or have some form of anti-village win-con could fix that. *I was in a game with an anonymous doc a while back that wasn't safe (there could be both villagers and elims in it) and managed to figure someone out pretty quickly based on her distinctive writing pattern, but in a later game I learned that me saying 'kinda' is apparently recognizable as well.

@Rathmaskal, games with everyone having a role are certainly something that's done more often. They're often referred to as 'role madness'. I wish I had time to do a deep reading of your rules to find any possible exploits, but I don't have time for that now. One thing I would like to note is that Cedric dying from having a PM with Voldy is something that he could use as a scan if he can find someone to trust. Snape's ability is somewhat problematic though. Even with a semi-anonymous doc, figuring out who everyone is (or getting good guesses at least) based on their discussion in a doc isn't that difficult if the doc is active. I'd personally change it into something that doesn't have a high likelihood of elim-game over. Maybe make him immune to being converted, but he gets to know the identity of a death-eater if the attempt is made.

Sign me up as well. I'll be Zihel.

@Cadmium Compounder, I've got a couple of things to note. First,t eh current version of the rules still has some references to 'çards' and 'pointing'. You might want to change those to 'role' and 'voting' . It's also not entirely clear to me what the Oracle role is supposed to accomplish. Lastly, I'd make it so that an elim-village lover pair causes the villager to become an elim (or leave out this role altogether). Otherwise, such a pair could end the game pretty much on the spot by revealing the elim team.

Right, so each individual engineer would be able to do a limited number of repairs*? That could work. It would force the engineer(s) to ration their abilities more. I'd probably make them repair a single part in one cycle in that case. As it is, it'd be fairly difficult/dangerous for engineers to gain a confirmed good status, as PM's are pretty limited, and the only role that ca protect them also roleblocks them. *That's fairly similar to Cadcoms suggestion, but it fits a bit better because of reasons

I've considered putting some sort of limit on repairs, either in the way you described or by allowing parts to be only repaired once. There's something else I'm considering that would make this impractical, but that's something I'll have to discuss with my co-gm, once I've got one .

This is a game Idea I've worked on for a while now. I've posted about it here before about a year or so ago, and this is essentially a version 2. The Northern Interest Trading Company is preparing for another expedition to the Pantheon. All previous missions have been lost, or returned with extreme losses. This time will be different, however, thanks to the Northern Wind, the newly designed airship that will soon leave its hangar and start on its maiden voyage. Nothing and no one will be able to stop a successful expedition when it launches, especially not those incompetent copy cats from the Southern Influence Commerce Syndicate. General rules Roles and special Airship parts Between the engineer and the doctor, the village could theoretically undo anything the elims do. I will try make sure to balance the game in such a way that the village can't easily lock the elim team down by simply fixing all the damage they do.

Yeah, he did do that after that close call, but I thought I'd bring it up again for people wanting to do something similar in the future (and they should, as its a pretty cool mechanic). We talked about it in the dead-doc but that thing is enormous, so people might miss it.

To add to this: the only reason I failed to get a post in C3 (when I'd already been taken over) was because someone was quick enough to kick me off the account right as I was about to post. I'd recommend making sure notices are sent to both the anonymous account and the players own account so that there'no chance he/she'll miss the notice.

No hard feelings there , though I would like to point out I was still reasonably active the first of those cycles.

The only one I made a guess at was Swan, who was quite obviously STINK. It was nice to see I mostly got the Kandra mechanics right, though it didn't do me much good . Anyway, this was a nice game, everyone!

I'm in a similar position to young bard. I've got enough time to be active, just not quite to my usual standards. Unless you don't make it to 14 players, please put me up as a pinch-hitter.

You where also quite certain I was village though I thought the village was going to win as well though, with the remaining elims making a bit of a fight out of it, but once the village started that string of mis-lynches, things started to look up. I can't believe I haven't mentioned this already, but Steeldancer did a good job with organizing the game and his write-ups where always fun to read.

Things I learned this game: I apparently can predict quite well when an elim needs to be bussed. Things I need to work on: Using those predictions In all seriousness though, @Mr Doctor did a terrific job carrying us to victory after half the team died and got in some really cool RP as well (go at the very least read the one he linked to from the final night). It was also nice to see that most of my planned and unplanned misdirections panned out, while little info from my death pointed back to my team-mates. In particular, people immediately listing straw as likely village because I'd been trying to get him lynched was a minor victory in a streak of bad luck.

Kinda, but not quite. IKYK indicates that you're really not sure, but if you're invoking TWTBAW, you're indicating that you actually believe that the person in question is not an elim (or that at least the elim-looking behaviour you pointed out as TWTBAW is NAI).

The one about wolves would probably be TWTBAW (too wolfy to be a wolf), which is really just something I picked up from the championship, and not something generally being used here. It means that someones behavior is so incredibly obviously wolfy(wolf=elim) that they can't really be an elim, as an elim would avoid being so obvious.

This is going to be my last post of the day, and potentially of this game. I'd tried to get a final list of questions up, but I'm currently too tired for that. Instead, I'd like to urge everyone to not just be active, but also help others to be active. Don't just do analysis in your own bubble, but also try to directly engage other people with questions to draw them more into the game, even if they don't feature in your current list of suspicions.

Apart from this, are there any other observations observations you want to share? This quick self-preservation vote is doing nothing to convince me I should be trying for a different lynch than you.

@Herowannabe came with a concept a while back that Is aid would get my pass if he could bring a more fleshed out rule-set, so I'm still waiting to see if he gets back to that.

I've done another review of Fifth. All my points from before still stand as far as I can see, but I can't see why Bort would defend me when elim!fifth was up on the chopping board. It could have been a sort of semi-busing maneuver or something, but I'm not seeing it. I'll be keeping a close eye on him, but I want to broaden my outlook a bit more right now. Speaking of which, I've done a review of Bort's posts. I've already talked about his Walin vote during D1 and how it's basically WIFOM, so I'm moving onto D2. He put quite a bit of attention on the Araris lynch, which means that that wagon was probably mostly pure. If there was an elim on it, I suspect it's one of the two he didn't directly call out (mr Doctor or Eternum/Drake), but the wagon could just as easily be entirely without elims, which suggest that Doc, HH and fifth are more likely to be village in light of this interaction. During D3 he defends me (I'll leave it to others to judge this, I've already said my piece about it), and brings up Walin in response to a question about wether he thought the Araris lynch was meant to protect anyone. In hindsight this looks a bit odd, as Walin had two votes on him that where basically joke-votes and therefore rather unlikely to lead to a lynch, but when the Araris lynch got going, there was also a bunch of suspicion on Elenion, who already was a confirmed Elim back then. It looks like he was trying to stir up a Walin lynch there, but he never goes deeper into that or votes on Walin, so it's not possible to know for certain, and could also be part of a distancing pattern started with his vote D1. conclusions: Doc, HH and fifth look more village, Bort's interactions with Walin are still WIFOM. @Straw, I noticed you're back. Are there any game-thoughts you wish to share with us? One of the things that initially got you on my radar was that, despite posting a decent number of posts, you didn't actually talk about much at all. @Rathmaskal and @Jondesu, you both motivated your vote in part as choosing between the leading wagons. If that was not a concern right now, who would you be voting?