kais

Okay, time to edit! Okay the cabinet is hanging everyone up. Editing. Have clarified I'll need to add in a modifier somewhere. Sniffing is really common for wood ID, as is tasting. So it would be second nature to do this, even if it is a really, really bad idea. Now reads: okay solid point. Editing I'd like to introduce the 'Moth' of this story... Kk, will keep this in mind. It might be the difference between standard noir and sticking in the lesbian element. A few people hung up on Y at the end of the chapter. I thought this was in line with the noir trope of complicating lady relationships right out the gate, but maybe not? Maybe I need to be more clear of her role. Will edit. Thank you for this! I've changed it accordingly to be a Bloomington area code and number Yuuuup. This was never intended as a difficult murder mystery I've introduced the concept of her earlier now. She needs to be in chapter one because she's part of the whole book, and she's very much a lesbian friend trope. I think she just needs to be introduced as a character earlier. As in a PhD studying the anatomy of dicots. It's a real thing. Hmm. Not sure how to better hang a lantern on this I think a defining sentence or two should clear this up. I've added that she has a parent in town who she can't leave, so she has to do her wood ID work in the twin cities. There's a ton of real science and real logic in here, but I think here in chapter one it's okay to not know what is serious and what isn't. It was kind of what I hoped would be the fun of the book--slowly realizing that it isn't just silly, it's actual science Edited! You can read the new text up with Mandamon's responses Ah but this is part of the plot of the book! There's a WHOLE FACTORY I have so many photos of my father running with beers at the end of races.... I've moved the timeline around here. It's been two months since they last saw each other. Also Y is now mentioned earlier, and I'm going to have D recognize the voice. Hmm okay. Check. Will edit Thank you all so much for the help!

YES. In many ways, getting feedback from outside the genre is more beneficial. I know what is needed for in-genre and I can filter your comments for that. But feedback is still feedback, and you can still catch things like flow, character development, etc. So thank you for reading, both of you, and please always feel free to read my work and crit on whatever you want to. It's always helpful!

I don't mind a little over, @Mandamon And @Silk I'd like a Monday slot as well I think

FYI I stuck my crit in last week's thread.

Since there is no thread for the new sub, I'm going to put my crit here. Overall This chapter did not appear to have any events, just talking. There was a lot of potential for tension, which never materialized fully. More needs to happen in this chapter, and there needs to be solid plot progression. Instead of constantly being told history and backstory and emotions, I want to experience them in scenes. I think you have all the ingredients here, just not the right execution. As I go - the opening sentence is not a particularly dynamic chapter opening - The palace doctors said that his condition was why it took him longer than normal to read, and write <-- oh yay! Solid coding here - pg 2: I'm not really sure what all they're talking about here. It's going over my head - pg 4: lot of talking, not a lot of plot movement for four pages. Can they be doing something while they talk? - pg 5: I am still not clear what is going on. I think part of the issue is that it's a lot of talking about things that I'm not seeing. I want to see the plot unfold, not just learn about it from conversation. Also, it's hard not to skim when people are just talking. Consider having them doing something that moves them towards the plot in tandem with the talking, so there are multiple things going on at the same time. - pgs 6-7: I was interested in the lineage paragraph, but not much else around it. There's a lot of being told about emotion instead of experiencing it, and while they are currently moving with the plot (yay) and that helps, they're still info dump talking and it's just skating right past me - pg 10: they're still just talking. Torture is on the table but everyone is talking and the most emotion I'm getting is sass from the one who could be tortured. I need more heart in this, and more plot progression - pg 14: they're still just talking

Overall While the writing is cleaner than what I remember, and more compact (nice work there), it still has a lot of the same fundamental structural issues. There is no real arc. The plot does not advance. The MC is in the same place she was at the start of the chapter, except she has talked to a bunch of people and had emotions. 'Talking and emotions' is good plot movement in romance focused books, but fantasy generally has other expectations, even if romance is the A-line. Can this chapter be condensed to maybe three to four pages and added to the next, so that concrete plot movement occurs? Again, the writing remains excellent. It's more the broader structural elements of chapters and stories that are the issue. As I go - that first sentence would have more impact if it was just The eyes of god were upon her. And then you could follow it with I stood before the city gates... - page one seems all recap, for how far we are into the book. At this stage we should be getting right to action - pg 2: “Hey. Gilvrani girl.” I think you could do the two sentences suggested above, then go right to this line - pg 3: again, too much between the Hey and the Are you lost? Two or three sentences would have been sufficient - there's some neat banter potential here but it's bogged down in too much introspection. I can't enjoy the scene because I have to keep skimming - it's page 7 and she still is not even inside the inn yet, which should be the start of this chapter, and lead into the arc, it seemed from the start. - glad to see the day jump on page 8 - pg 9: too much introspection again. Pages 8 and 9 can be combined and condensed - pg 11: so this chapter is reading as something of maybe a second chapter in a novel, that is setting up a magic school But I see this is chapter 21 in the book. It seems very late in the game to be starting a whole new arc - pg 11: He caught me practicing the fire spell and thought I had potential. <-- this would work for me. Chapter one is her illegal magic and she gets sent off. This is chapter two. Dynamic start - pg 12: oh wait, she isn't really a student? That makes more sense then (clearly I missed a lot of Inbetween chapters) - pg 14: the banter is interesting again, if this were chapter two of a magic school book. If she is just pretending to be a student then this is dragging and I want to get to the subterfuge - pg 16: there does not appear to be an arc to this chapter

Overall No issues with this one at all. It was all character with some foreshadowing, which was fine after last chapter. I was getting a touch antsy at the end, so hoping next chapter moves towards some larger action, like landing. Lots of anticipation there. Very well executed all around, especially the tropes and expectations of hard sci-fi. I'm loving this. Carry on. As I go - the toilet interlude in the first paragraph is just great. It helps add levity and character buy in to an otherwise somewhat dry paragraph - really enjoyed the first two pages - pg 4: Lol at married life. "Stumpy legs' indeed - pg 7: I thought that was a great little home life snippet, and enjoyed the military breadcrumbs. This is all tracking just fine for hard sci fi for me, with all the right beats and tropes. I'm well engaged - pg 7: J felt like she <-- it's more dynamic if you remove the 'felt like' and just make it 'She always seemed to be' or something akin - pg 7: She hadn’t fit the biology she’d been born with, and she didn’t fit this job. <-- aww, this makes me sad. Have they not sorted trans issues this far into the future? - pg 12: LOL at the DND gamers and their chitchat

Hi everyone. Long time no sub. Glad to be back in the game. I’m just going to apologize right off for this. The DD series has been long in my brain, but my agent actually asked for the first three chapters of book one, MM. I’d like eyes on them before they go out. This book is not fully written, and I’m not an outliner, I’m a pantser. Hence, all comments and feedback are welcome, from grammar to plot to ‘dear god why??’ For this chapter in particular I’d like to know if there is sufficient inciting incident to keep you reading, and if you think I got the tone right for ‘lesbian science noir.' V for implied violence (this is a PI who solves sex crimes) L not so much for cursing, but because I use the anatomically correct names for genitals S because sex is talked about pretty constantly My goal is a noir feel clearly updated for modern times, with lesbian thematic elements. Also hard wood science. You’re going to learn something while we talk about sex toys. Mostly, I hope it will make you laugh.

I second this. Do the weekly sub. You'll get much better feedback that way.

I think you should write it, and just be prepared for A) edits as you go and B.) the cost of a sensitivity reader with Kleinfelters. From what I know of that condition (it isn't mine), there are an absolute ton of medical issues that tend to go along with it. Medical intervention is almost always necessary. It'll be important to include that with your character, that he has to constantly have therapy for something or other (muscles, speech, growth, etc.). He will likely be ace, or demi, or somewhere in there with Kleinfelters, too. It would be easier for the narrative if you did something like chimerism. You could keep the calico stuff but have it be that he absorbed his twin in utero. That doesn't come with nearly the medical issues usually. Although having all that medical stuff, now that I think about it, might help hang that lantern you need to hang. If our MC is constantly having to see doctors for comorbids, then it's a part of the conversation and the reader learns as they go, and the not trans is reinforced over and over, natively. Maybe write your MC with this phrase in mind: I'm not trans, I'm just tired. I feel like that sums up a lot of intersex life in a nutshell.

I think generally writers try to avoid any period-specific slang when writing things outside that specific time period. Slang adds another dimension to your world. It's part of the world building. So if you are building a fantasy, loosely Arab world that has magic and is pre-industrialization, that puts a certain time period in my head. Using 21st century slang then doesn't match, and each time it appears it punts me from the narrative. There's no rule that says you can't do it, but it will be jarring for many readers I think. Unless you again, hang a lantern on it and give us some reason for why it exists, such as blending in some modern world items that would then tie into the slang (like, oh, there's surfer culture here too and everyone says 'bro' a lot).

I'll second this. While 'born in the wrong body' is sometimes (certainly not always) used by trans people, depending on their level of dysphoria, intersex is very much a medical situation. I wasn't born into the wrong body, my body has complex medical issues that require intervention to allow me to live a healthy life. Trans issues tend to be about fitting in, body dysphoria, mental health. These can happen with intersex issues too of course but ours are almost always dominated by 'what surgeries/hormones/medicines do I have to take to not die.' It felt like you were trying to set this up with the sister's comments, but I think the response from our MC wasn't strong enough. Because you're trying to separate out a small community from an even smaller one within the microcosm of queer space, I'd just be direct and upfront about it. Have the sister keep her 'born in the wrong body' line. Have the MC respond with something sharp and clear, like 'I'm a man with a medical condition and that's it. Stop trying to make me something I'm not.' (which is 100% a line I've given to doctors on several occasions). You might have to hang a lantern on it a few times throughout the book to really get it across to readers, but this is not a place to be subtle. The problem is there are so many types of intersex conditions, and they are all distinct and unique. Researching 'intersex' isn't going to help. You'd need to pick a specific type and do deep dives on that particular medical area. Then find the community of those people. Is your character a chimera? Androgen insensitive? Have NCAH? Heck, even PCOS is being counted as an intersex condition now in some spaces due to the hormone issues. And each condition has its own community, and they have their own culture and how they want their issues talked about and discussed from outsider perspectives. Ehhh. You're going to have to do a lot of groundwork to pull this off, or you'll just conflate intersex with queer issues. It'll mean having your MC basically constantly refuting that he's queer due to his calico issue, and that instead he's queer due to whatever else. Over and over. You have an opportunity here to make a really powerful statement about intersex and queer interplay, but because you're doing it from outside the community it will take a lot of careful planning. As an example, every time I meet someone new from the queer community I have to deal with this issue. My body clearly exhibits sex traits from both sides and I am assumed to be trans. Medical providers do the same thing. And part of it is the body thing and part of it is because I'm queer too, but not because I'm intersex, but because I'm nonbinary. And it is exhausting to constantly have to separate out the two, and then more often than not, be put on a pedestal by any trans people around, or used as a lynchpin in an argument about the validity of being trans. I am not trans is a phrase I have to use at least once a day, if I'm engaged in queer spaces. So I would be shocked if your MC didn't have to navigate similar issues. Hard yes on this.

If there is a spot left I'd like to submit on the 31st as well

I read a lot of hard sci fi and this did not bother me.

I ADORED that series as a kid. Still one of my all time favorites. I have all four books in hardback on my bookshelf

Overall This chapter also does not seem to have an inciting incident. Why does the narrative start here, and not farther in? Right now we seem to be getting 'slice of life' shots but no real plot progression or meat. The dialogue is also hard to parse (and there's a lot of it!) because it's so modern, and the setting is not, say urban fantasy. I think it might be worth going through your first few chapters and seeing where the book truly begins. Where is the event that kicks off the plot? That's the place to start chapter one, with maybe a memory prologue before it. It seems like a lot of trauma is around the king's ascension. That might be a reasonable prologue to write out in full. As I go - not the most dynamic opening - pg 1: She’s out of your hands now <-- unclear. Who is 'she'. No point in being vague here. As a new POV we cannot relate to her without more information - pg 2: forced her to make before they kissed for the first time <-- okay hi. This is excellent and I would like emotions around it, and possibly a full memory. First kisses are exciting, although this does age our MC down a bit.The summation robs the reader of any tension or character buy in and turns the scene into a hand-wave type of write off. If the MC doesn't really care enough to emote, why should we? - pg 4: there are a lot of summarized memories doing the info dumping here. I think space would be better spent with a prologue that shows maybe the brother ascending to the throne, or little interludes that show us these memories in full. When they're just summarized like this I don't care about them at all - pg 8: I'd much rather get a memory in full about the twin brother, than the summary. Also if she was blocking the memory of her brother and it just came back, where are the emotions around that? - pg 13: Super badass. <-- the narrative is filled with modern phrases like this that toss me out of the narrative. The world is loosely based on a sort of Arabic historical setting, yes? The people then wouldn't speak like 2010s US natives, I would think. - this chapter also seems to lack an inciting incident

I return! May be subbing in a few weeks but for right now, just getting slowly back into critique work. I missed you all. I'm currently writing four books at once. Do not recommend. Nope.

Figured I'd go back and read this one before doing this week's. Overall I appreciate the work in terms of what I expect to be a queer-friendly narrative. I appreciate the inclusion of the lesbian princess, the friend who is pro-trans, and the attempt at intersex inclusion. These are all good. My concern draws from what I see as a setup to use an intersex character as a lynchpin in a 'queer people should have rights' argument. (I also have issues with how the intersex condition is portrayed, but that's discussed below). It's important that the narrative does not conflate intersex issues with gay or trans issues. While there is some overlap, they are not the same thing. A sizable portion of the intersex community do not consider themselves queer at all. I'd suggest to be mindful of this as you continue writing. If your MC is going to have issues due to his biology, make it clear those are different issues than his sister's lesbianism. Make it clear that trans issues are not relevant, as our MC has been vocal about not being trans. If you intend this for publication, you'll need a paid sensitivity reader from the intersex community to help out (even if you, yourself, are intersex, as this hits a lot of sensitive areas for the community). Narrative wise, there's no inciting incident. The first few pages are interesting, but with no plot movement, the first chapter lags. I'd suggest cutting all but the first few pages and moving chapter two up, assuming it has a plot movement section that could be the kickoff for the book. All the information S gathered in the market just blew past me because I A) wasn't super invested in S yet and B.) didn't yet care about the world and C) was searching for THE MOMENT when the book narrative really starts I think you have the start of an interesting world here, and of course I'm always excited for intersex leads. But so many authors have done it poorly that I tend to be wary. As I go - pg 2: Okay. You've mixed cat and bird type intersex traits with human ones. I have...feelings about this. This sort of patchwork in humans does occur, but tends to be a result of one twin absorbing the other in utero. I understand this is fantasy, but unless you are going to have actual cat or bird people in it, I'd suggest being clear this is a failed twin issue, so as to not fall into erasure territory. Or tie them more directly to an exact intersex condition. Reading this in a book in a bookstore, it would make me uncomfortable. - pg 2: You’d make a pretty lady <-- Does S want to be a girl? Does he not get to choose his gender? I have many questions and increasing discomfort, especially when his discomfort is right there on page one. - pg 2: who claim their souls were put in the bodies of the opposite sex <-- this is a transgender issue, not an intersex issue. Please do not conflate the two. This would be where I would put the book down in a bookstore. - pg 2: I came out of the womb as a boy <-- sounds like he came out of the womb intersex - and then it turns out our MC isn't trans, and vocally so. Marginally confused now - pg 8: no inciting incident yet, unless the intersex issue is supposed to be the reader hook. If it is, it needs some tightening, per above - pg 8: I'm skimming all the political talk. I don't care enough yet about the world and characters to invest in it. Searching for that inciting incident - end of page ten is the background info that would have been nice in page two or three, to hook the reader. Although still no inciting incident - pg 14: Though the doctors said that Si’s conditions might make him infertile regardless. <-- As calico cats are not infertile as faras I know, this indicates that this is a human intersex condition. Hence you definitely need to lean into the more human aspects of it - pg 16: so this fantasy land is homophobic? -

I'd been meaning to get back on here, and I guess this is the push I needed to do it! Overall I'm intrigued. I love sweeping space operas and such, so this hits all the right buttons for me. If I were at a library I might bring it home. At a book store I'm not sure I'd buy it. Generally to get me to buy a book (and this is just me, obviously) I want at least one character whose personal life drives me. In a chapter like this it could be as simple as having Jane wonder if her wife had also been woken, etc., just some touchstone that makes me go ah, here's my emotion arc. Right now there are a lot of plot-level arcs, which I love, but I need that one emotion arc to get me to shell out money for a book. I'd waffle a bit though, as you have 'they/them' pronouns listed. Still, an emotional tie would seal the deal. For a first draft on an RE forum? Very nice. Carry on. As I go - I adore that the dramatis has pronouns! - Might be too many people though, for a dramatis. Generally they just highlight the key players, yes? The first page I read with enthusiasm, the others I skipped over. Too many to remember and connect with. Maybe just use it for POV characters? - that opening sentence is pretty raw and hard to follow. I think trimming it down would give it the punch you want - pg 5: He put in a note to report her violation <-- I laughed. Little uptight - pg 5: He had nightmares of being stuck <-- this is where you start to lose me. I liked the wonder of the solar sails and arriving at their destination. I enjoyed the characterization of Alvin and his dislike of cute naming. But now I'm starting to get bored, wondering when things will progress - pg 6: I thought he was fine with the Lid name? Why go back to the number? I'm confused as to Alvin's thought process here - pg 7: I think this first interlude would work fine if it lost maybe 2 pages. It's got a lot of good content, it just wanders there at the end in particular - I really enjoyed the second interlude - pg 9: nearly let go his datapad <-- missing 'of' - pg 10: He had nightmares of being forced to live in a gravity well. <-- this is better here than in the first interlude. Also I think this part should be put up with the first interlude. That would give it more punch, and make the 'alien' interlude have more impact as well - pg 12: as much as I dislike multiple POVs in one chapter, I think you've done well with these. It makes sense, noting the size of the world you're building

I live! I swear! I've got this noted and will try to get to it this weekend. I've been meaning to get back on the forum anyway and an intersex character sounds like a good place to start.

Overall There were some great emotional beats in here, but it sagged in some places, too. I think cutting it down (again, I know) will help it be more dynamic. I like the iron hints, and the emotional arc of our MC a lot. There's some repetition in dialogue that slows everything down, but a bit of streamlining will fix it right up. As I go - good opening line - pg 1: I love that she is doing tae kwon do in a dress - pg 6: I was engaged at the start, but the narrative lags through here. Might want to shorten this part up - pg 7: If I need to have this argument one more time, my voice is going to go hoarse. <-- it's repetitive for the reader, too. No plot progression - pg 8: this is lagging a lot through here. They need to pick an activity and get on with it - pg 9: the iron conversation is interesting! - pg 9: Well, I say that this guy’s real tragedy is that he can’t find a postdoc <-- I laughed so hard I woke my kid up

YAY I AM SO EXCITED. Also we got the orange Amazon banner for #1!

Aside from our lead not being freaked out about N being empathic, I thought there were good emotional beats in this. The ending was great and I felt like I connected to our MC for the first time since this book started. Unlike the others I didn't have issues with the self-pity, but I think mostly because I've already seen so much of it from her that it just seems on-brand. At least here there was some plot progression, and N is really carrying things so it all worked. And the end, again, really hit home for me. As I go - uh, is she not freaked out that N is empathic? There needs to be an emotional reaction there somewhere - aww, I like the end

Overall Unfortunately I wasn't engaged through any of this. The first chapter started slow and again, just when it might have taken off (with spellstones and sideways looks), it didn't. Then the next chapter with the king was functionally the same. I think these chapters could be condensed to one, maybe five pages long, and then some plot progression added in. No more teasing with spellstones, something needs to happen that is dynamic, as just talking heads does not do great things for holding attention. I know this is romance fantasy, but I still would like the B plot to move along a bit more, since the A plot (the romance) is taking its time. As I go - pg 2: Not a dynamic start. I'd like for the chapter to start on plot movement, not checking in on a moderately to lightly wounded princess - pg 2: I think a good start place for this chapter could be As if she didn’t owe him far too much already. Where you name A directly. That sets up a solid emotional beat for the chapter - pg 6: I want the spellstones to be interesting but they keep doing just really mundane things and it isn't interesting - pg 9: the spellstones might be getting more interesting? It's just hard to stay focused when they're talking and rehashing and not doing anything. Or emoting. I need them to move or emote, one or the other, or I just skim and then skip over potentially interesting spellstone hijinks - is there a reason we can't just start with her walking to meet the king? - pg 14: so much talking and so many names.

Late again Overall The first part was really snappy and dynamic, and then I felt the tension drained bit by bit with each continuing beat. The end fell flat for me, because V already said he couldn't find an end to the wasteland, and now C wants to leave....but G-M's idea to burn the town down seems much more A) reasonable and B.) interesting. Again, I want to go with G-M, not C. I think you're walking the line again of C not being a dynamic enough character. But that mayor. Nice! As I go - while I don't normally like random additional POVs, I liked the mayor's a lot! - the interlude with C and the bird boy doesn't seem to advance the plot much. I wonder if it could be cut? - pg 13: the narrative is starting to lag through here. I want faster movement! - pg 16: I think the T recap section isn't necessary. It is just rehashing what we already know - 'we have to go' isn't nearly as dynamic as 'burn down the town'