Kingsdaughter613

Kelsier is a CS attached to a body. I meant never-died brings. We really need a proper Threnody timeline. We know that Threnodites were able to become Shadows before Nazh left Threnody. We don’t know if that was still accurate when Kell meets Khriss and Nazh. I still think Ambition’s death did something to the link between Cognitive and Spiritual though. What I meant was that Kell was sustained due to a direct Connection to Preservation’s Investiture. Cutting it at that point would probably have killed him. The Oathpact gives the Heralds a similar Connection to Honor. Without it, they die. I think a Shard can safely cut the Connection to a planet without damaging the Connection to a Shard. Seons are similar to Spren. I think the GBs know how to get Spren offworld, but they haven’t yet been able to extend it to Shadows.

I think it was actually to set up that he was still wandering around...

I just love the idea of there being a true fairytale land in the Cosmere. I’m thinking it could work for early to mid teenage readers. Think the Ella Enchanted age audience. It would be a series that could be given to another author, as it wouldn’t be mainline Cosmere. Brandon has spoken of doing that with Aether, but I think it could work well with this Shard too. A fun way to do it would be to have the story take place from the perspective of a Cosmere researcher, who is trying to figure out how the magic systems of Whimsy’s World (which I am now naming Gaiety) fit into the rest of the Cosmere. If I could design the world, it would be as follows: Gaiety revolves around the numbers seven and 3. Days are 21 hours long, and months are 21 days long. The year has fourteen months. There are seven planets in the system: Joy, Dream, Gaiety, Glory, Mischief, Novelty, and Wonder. Gaiety is planet number 3, of course. The planet is made up of Archipelagos, with the largest land masses being about the size of Australia. There is something about the planets atmosphere that causes the sun rays to refract, so that light on Gaiety changes hue throughout the day. It rarely storms on Gaiety, with rain usually being sun showers. It is literally a Sunshine and Rainbows world. Whimsy either created Gaiety’s people, or she altered them significantly. This is the world where you find fantasy creatures. Elves, trolls, goblins, pixies, halflings, etc. There are also sylphs, naiads, dryads, etc. ‘Humans’ in this world are not baseline humans, and don’t quite resemble regular humans. Most ‘humans’ here have darker skin with golden markings. As in literally metallic gold markings. Some ‘humans’ have fair skin with indigo patterns. There is also a group with copper skin and silver constellations. Most magic (which is actually called that here) is done through learning complex songs and dances. The dances are always circular, and it later turns out that mandalas are actually a big part of how Investiture is channeled, which is why potions work. They’re stirred in circular patterns. And this is as much as I can think of for now. Feel free to add!

They can be. It’s occurred to me that Kell could use the pure tones of Ruin and Preservation to separate out the Mists, then distill them into Lerasium and Atium. Which is an absolutely terrifying thought. And the GBs KNOW about the tones now!

According to comments made in Alloy. Supposedly people have been visited by the Survivor. There’s no evidence for or against though. WoB is that he hasn’t gotten offworld yet, though.

Not-dead Physical Realm beings don’t have a problem traveling. Nightblood and the Returned have special rules due to the nature of Endowment’s Investiture, per WoB. I think Threnodite Shades have a damaged Connection to the Spiritual Realm, which is why they’re so mindless. SR includes the Connection to Threnody, so they can travel due to being disconnected from that Realm. Both the Herralds and Kell became Shadows via direct Shardic interference. Originally, I think they were practically the same thing. However, once Kelsier ascended that ceased to be true. As a Sliver, Kelsier’s existence is maintained by a piece of Preservation that is intrinsic to him now. The vary nature of what he is has been fundamentally altered. If Kelsier was stuck in a gemstone I think he would be fine. He’s no longer sustained by his ties to Preservation (which might be cut by such an act), but by the Sliver that is his essence. He’s much closer to a Spren then the Heralds are, in some ways. It might be why we’ve been told that Kell could act as a Spren in a Nahel bond, but were RAFOd when specifying if ‘due to his being a Cognitive Shadow’ and RAFOd again with Threnodite Shades. (Or Brandon didn’t realize he’d answered once or he changed his mind...) It’s possible that Cognitive Shadows can’t, but a Cognitive SLIVER can. So they’re not the same thing any more, but I’m not sure Kelsier realizes that.

Joyous Creativity, exactly. I think it would be a fun world to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there, lol!

Actually, he told Yitzchak that he [Yitzchak] would be the sacrifice. And Yitzchak’s response? They BOTH went up the mountain TOGETHER. And Yitzchak demanded Avraham tie him down, in case he flinched and ruined the sacrifice. The point was never about a sacrifice, as you said. But it wasn’t about being good either. It was about faith. God had told Avraham repeatedly that human sacrifice was forbidden. Avraham had taught this to his converts. Now God told him to sacrifice his son, the same son he was promised a great nation from. The point was to see if Avraham would obey, would believe, would still have faith when God seemingly went back on His word. And Avraham did. And seeing as God had to tell him TWICE to stop, because Avraham thought the first time was a trick, he definitely thought he was going to be killing his son. But we call it Akeidas Yitzchak. Yitzchak, whose perspective we never really see. Yitzchak, whom we know so little of. Yitzchak, whom we call mighty, who bargains with God for his descendants redemption. Yitzchak who went WILLINGLY as a sacrifice. From Avraham we learn Emunas HaShem, but Yitzchak teaches us Emunas Chachamim. In today’s world, where there are no obvious miracles, where we lack prophesy, Beis HaMikdash, and the Urim v’Tumim, Judaism survives through our faith in our sages. The lesson of the Akeida is Yitzchak’s; it is his willingness to sacrifice himself for no reason other than that his father claimed to be so commanded, that has kept the faith and the people alive. It is from Yitzchak, not Avraham, that the lesson is truly learned. Tribulation would be an interesting Shard. I think Honor and Valor may cover some of that already though. Particularly the latter.

THAT would be a DISASTER for the Cosmere. Whimsy would just exacerbate his unpredictability and recklessness. And it wouldn’t suit him well at all. Kell is whimsical, but he’s also a planner, a trickster, and he has a hard edge ill suited to the Shard. Under Kell the Shard is more likely to be interpreted toward novelty or caprice, as opposed to true whimsy, which tends toward wonder, gaiety, and child-like innocence. Whimsy is the part of us that never grows up. Honestly, the person best suited to Whimsy would be a child.

We do actually see this explored in Secret History.

Worth noting that Teft momentarily managed to summon Phen as a blade as he approached the fourth ideal. Excuse me while I curse out Moash.

I think this may be why Scadrial ends up rivaling Roshar. Ettmetal acts as a power source for Allomantic fabriels. And Scadrians can use medallions to compound giving them near infinite sources of kinetic (I think) Investiture. If someone like Kell gains access to other forms on Investiture, he can compound that too. Double Nicrosil is an incredibly dangerous advantage in a trade war. To make it even better, Scadrial does have free floating Investiture - the Mists. And the mists can be distilled into God metals... Granting an unlimited supply of the easily transportable, fabriel fueling Ettmetal.

I think Hoid and Kelsier are already playing those roles in the Cosmere. Which makes sense; tricksters usually aren’t the most powerful, just the trickiest. Whimsy for me is more about curiosity and wonder, with a child like innocence to it. It’s not tricky, nor capricious. It’s God delighting in the deeds of His children. It’s novelty. It’s the genuine delight in the beauty of the world. It’s gaiety. Its a journey without a destination. It’s imagination. Whimsy is Adonalsium’s own Creativity. I suspect Whimsy would be very happy wandering the Cosmere. If it is Invested, it’s world is likely one that is somewhat non-sensical, with a randomness at odds with the rest of the Cosmere, with an environment that often shifts. A very fantasy, fairy tale environment. But the people are perfectly well and happy despite this, because Whimsy LIKES people. They’re always doing interesting things. Whimsy isn’t cruel; it’s curious. Some kind of changeling type magic could make sense here, where different environments or actions give you access to different powers. I could see dance and music being the primary Investiture form. I could also see Whimsy as a Shard that creates temporary Avatars and wanders among the populace giving abilities both good and bad depending on the individual’s deeds. Think the old fairy tales, where the crone in the woods turns out to be a powerful sorceress. I think it would be very amusing if Whimsy’s world was actually a very traditional fairy tale world, with some Disneyesque elements. Including people randomly breaking into song and dance (see above) and talking animals, trees, and multiple fantasy-type species. None of the regular Cosmere rules seem to work at first (although deeper study reveals they do) because Whimsy is constantly playing with the nature of its world. A world that doesn’t seem to match with the serious nature of the rest of the Cosmere. Basically: Whimsy’s world is the Disney world of the Cosmere. A lot of fun to visit, but afterwards you need a vacation from your vacation. Oh, and there are no wars on Whimsy’s World. War is NOT whimsical. Whimsy is very active upon her world. Whimsy likes things to be fun and wars are not fun. Whimsy isn’t Disney though. Whimsy is Gene Wilder’s Willy Wonka. Chocolate river included.

Looks like you and I agree on BAM. I wonder if she had a Bondsmith though. It almost seems from this theory that Sja-Anat could be becoming the Odium/Cultivation version of the sibling, giving yet another reason for why Sja-Anat calls the Sibling ‘cousin.’

Because it’s about Connection maybe? It’s a theory anyway. And something weird was going on with BAM. I’m beginning to suspect she had a Bondsmith; what she was doing doesn’t quite make sense as something she would be capable of on her own.

Dakhor, like all forms of the Dor, is a mixture of Devotion and Dominion. It’s of both, not one. Valor’s system was likely the Dark One’s initially.

I think Adhesion requires being Invested in Roshar. Once Odium started becoming Invested BAM started exhibiting powers highly reminiscent of what Bondsmiths are capable of.

I think they need a Bondsmith Spren, and that was BAM. But she only gained those abilities after the Last Desolation when Odium started truly becoming Invested in Roshar.

Considering he’s a neurological psychopath, that’s very unlikely. Empathizing with other worlds isn’t something he’d really be capable of doing. He’d have to have a personal connection to the world/people in question. Not to mention that Vin died for Scadrial. He’ll protect it for her, even if he would help defend other worlds against his own, which is a more likely situation. But he won’t allow Scadrial itself to be harmed, if only because of how much he and his friends sacrificed to restore it. He’s much more likely to stage a revolution, take down the government he doesn’t like, and start a new religion dedicated to himself and whatever cause he’s into. Also worth noting that Kell doesn’t actually have a problem with oppression - as long as he’s the oppressor! He wanted to execute all nobles for the crime of being born. He had planned to set himself up in TLR’s place if he succeeded at killing the man. He DOES do that in the South, where he rules for years. Despite his actions in TFE, he’s not really a champion for the underdog or the oppressed. So long as it’s HIS planet doing the oppressing, he’s fine. If someone else tries it on Scadrial though, well that he just can’t allow.

Hoid’s Dawnshard prevented him from harming people.

Maybe, but he loves his world. It’s what he was working toward the entire time we’ve known him. He wants Scadrial protected. He’s not about to destroy it. I can see him turning against Saze; I don’t think he’s capable of turning against his home.

That actually sounds like a situation where Kelsier would do well. His original crew had quite a bit of Whimsy to it. And his ability to smile no matter how bad things got was one of the things that allowed him to inspire so many.

Huh. Did not know that. That seems to be a design error...

Teft already swore that as his third oath. Being unwilling to protect yourself is a hang up covered under the third oath. I think the fifth is the acknowledgment that sometimes you SHOULD NOT protect.

Mraize says the GBs know how to transport Stormlight. They’re trying to free Thaidakar, who is a piece of a Shard in many ways. That’s a completely different level.