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When I thinik of the Spiritual Realm I usually concentrate on the idea that time is not a uni-directional axis there. So, my impression of Spiritual Realm that I use as the means of thinking about it is that it is a 5D space, where the standard 3D environment is augmented with a temporal axis that is completely accessible to the outside observer (hence the 5th dimension). What this means is that if the observer knows what they are doing, they can gain access to any location in the 4D space defining the physical realm (3D space plus time). However, given what we know, the actual observations are probably stochastic in one of two senses: (a) first possibility is that the temporal location of the observer in the Physical (or Cognitive Realm) splits the Spiritual Realm observations into deterministic (those that happened in time preceding the current temporal position of the observer) and stochastic (i.e., possible future scenarios) (b) second possibility is that regardless of the temporal origin of the observer, all observations stochastic. Again: this is *my* personal way of explaining to myself how Spiritual Realm works,

The issue is less this, and more how humans get to access it on different worlds. Cases in point: on Roshar, Investiture in the form of Stormlight can be obtained by anyone with appropriate ability from the environment (where concentrations of it are found). However, it does not hold permanently and leaks out. But on Nalthis it is the other way around. Breath is a long-term Investiture which persists in humans (and in Invested entities, in fact) without leakage. But there is no obtaining extra Investiture through environment (only voluntary transfers are allowed). The WOB quoted above seems to suggest that in the specific case of Aonic people bonded to Seons travelling to Roshar, they will obtain the ability to access Stormlight and perhaps some ability to manipulate world - I agree with @Yata that being able to activate the Seon's Aon may be possible. The key issue specifically with Selish manipulations of Investiture is that they are tied to Connection to a specific geographic area. In case of Aons, we know how this works - an Aon has to start off with a basic shape of Arelon. So, what does activating an Arelon-shaped Aon does on Roshar? Does one need to actually change the Aon to represent a shape, or, say, Alethkar, or Vedenar, or, I don't know, Azir?

So, Brandon has included a novella about Silverlight into his medium-term plans, eh?

In all fairness, I did not come up with it; the phrase is the name of a trope from TVTropes.

I actually think that the stormspren and the Unmade being present on Roshar constitutes Investing in Roshar. Listeners taking on Stormform constitutes Investing. So, this is less of a conjecture at this point, and more of an observation. The whole theory came out of observing that Odium seems Invested in Roshar, and remembering Brandon's various explanations that once Invested, you can not leave easily. This is not to say that Odium isn't Invested on Braize. Onto the hidden parts

From the moment I read Ym's Interlude, I've always believe that the One is a reference to Adonalsium and The One wanting to be many may actually be a very corrupted memory of what happened on Yolen when the Shattering happened. My mistake was assuming that this is Ym's personal belief - it is actually an Irali belief/myth/religion/you name it. Now, it is also possible that Bavadin is the One, and the reference to the One becoming Many to gain EXP refers to "pantheons of Bavadin" we've been hearing about. But I still prefer the version where the story of the One is a shadow of a shadow of the Shattering. If that's the case, it would put the Irali's ancestors on Yolen around the time of the Shattering, and would make them start the Long Trail shortly after. For example fleeing One (or more) of the Shards could've helped them on their trail. There are Earth analogs. I mentioned the Trail of Tears. Another clear reference is the Biblical Exidous. Later parts of the Old Testament record events that are historical. We do not have significant historical records concerning the flight of Jews from Egypt, but it is something that sounds like a tribal legend that is rooted in generations upon generations of retelling of an origin story that did happen. The Iri (is it Iri or Irali?) might have the same thing going on.

Frost according to what we know (collecting it all in one place here for simplicity) is (a) a dragon, (b) is on Yolen at the moment, and (c) is somewhat of a parton saint or an ideological father of the17th Shard. Which only makes sense if he does not hold any of the other 16. Senna.... Brandon's MO in introducing Shards has been to drop hints and then squeeze information one bit at a time. So, the mention of Senna may indeed be similar to how Bavadin was introduced originally, which means that two years from now we will finally get a WoB on whether she is a Vessel, and two more years later - what Shard she holds. Plus, in another ten months it may turn out that Senna is a man ((-:

True. I've gone off on the Oathpact in a separate thread, and I would like to revise some of the comments I made above. Still believe that Cultivation may have helped pick the champions thoguh. The Oathpact is the "contract" that bound the Heralds to their new destiny - that was between them and Honor, because Cultivation doesn't do contracts.

Now, that I would like to see.

I am not certain Bavadin is a villain any more than any other Shard is. My guess is, she a much more complex character. But I do want to see her and Hoid duke it out. They are a match. Which probably means, we are not going to see this play out until the sci-fi Mistborn.

All Vessels are from Yolen. This suggests a no. Back to the OP: Bavadin appears to be an 11-dimensional chess player with complex schemes in place that she advances via the religions she infiltrates. Her Intent suggests that she wants to arrest the power of any given Shard. I suspect that her alliances with any Shards are temporary at best. That is to say, whatever she did to help Odium was a strategic thing, and she will gladly backstab him to prevent him from achieving world domination as well. Perhaps her Intent dictates that she tries to limit the influence of any given Shard beyond their Invested world - and some time, even ON their Invested world. As to why Brandon likes her - she is probably very fun to plot through.

Ok, so let's quote you directly, if you believe I wasn't representing your opinion properly. We don't indeed, just as we were not told a lot of other things that we were able to parse out. In this particular case our evidence of what Oathpact was is very limited. 1. We are told it is a pact between Honor and the Heralds. 2. WoB explicitly excluded anyone else from it. 3. A recent WoB is that it turned the Heralds into Cognitive Shadows, which explains the whole death and resurrection thing. 4. The only other thing we have is the thoughts of Kalak and words of Jezrien. So, no we don't. If you will, we may have two competing theories. Mine (for the lack of a better word) is that the Oathpact was a reaction to a threat of Odium put together in a way to ensure that Odium gets to fight his battles in the Physical Realm. It also states that what we see/hear Heralds do: a. fight the battles against the Voidbringers b. go to Damnation (or wherever) to be tortured (and go there involuntarily if killed in battle) c. reappear before the next Desolation was included in the Oathpact. The alternative theory we are discussing, yours (for the lack of a better word) is: I read this as essentially (a) Oathpact predates Odium's appearance, (b) original Oathpact was about creating civilization on Roshar, (c) when Odium appeared, Honor did something to either update Oathpact to include the defense against Voidbringers, or the defense against Voidbringers is a whole different deal altogether (your words: "might not even [be] part of the Oathpact"). Forgive me for saying this, but it makes little sense to me. Allow me to explain why: (a) Honorblades make perfect sense as attributes of war and defense. If Honor was inducting Heralds to defend the realm, honorblades as elements of power are totally meaningful and also are VERY functional. In the times of peace and building civilization why would Paliah, who heals and lightweaves need a sword to grant her those powers. Yes, you may point out that you state above the "Roshar is a very hostile environment towards humans". But a sword is NOT the only way to counter such hostility. So, it makes no sense to me, that all Heralds were given blades as part of the deal. (b) Jez and Kalak clearly think that their refusal to go to Damnation is somehow NOT what is envisioned by the Oathpact. To me, this is the strongest argument against your statement that " In fact, that might not even part of the Oathpact". You continue your thoughts here: and I actually do not disagree with the major part of what you are saying here. But let's take a look at it. First, you yourself are clearly stepping away from your "might not even be a part of the Oathpact" statement, because your first sentence above states "Oathpact enables them to go to the Damnation". What I agree with is that Oathpact does not require them to go to the Damnation. But "enables them to go to the Damnation" still makes it part of the Oathpact. Just because the imperative is different does not remove it from the agreement. I will also point out, that the Heralds who died in battle do not get this choice. They just go to Damnation. Which is why 4500 years ago, the nine surviving Heralds could get away with not returning. (c) Almost everything that is attested about the Heralds is attested in the context of their fights against Desolations and their return back to Damnation upon the completion of these fights. There is no written or oral tradition noted thus far (does not mean it does not exist, but we have not seen it, so it is difficult to make conjectures) referring to anything Heralds did that did not involve the struggle against Desolations, Voidbringers, etc. To me, it is still more much more likely that the Oathpact appeared as part of Honor vs. Odium fight. Oathpact is a rather drastic thing. I am not certain that simply fighting Roshar's inhospitality to humans is a strong enough reason to turn 10 people into Cognitive Shadows. Almost everything else we deduce about Oathpact and the Heralds is related to the struggle against Desolations. Onto meta: but also: My exact words were which is miles away from saying that they were inducted to be harbingers. So, please.

My point exactly, the Vessel has to be killed first.

Oathpact, as we were wisely reminded is between Honor and the Heralds. There may be other "agreements" between the Shards. But they are not Oathpact.

Was it because they could not've splintered that way, or because a certain someone took up their power right at the moment? Do we know what'd happened to Preservation and Ruin if new Vessel wasn't there?

Eshonai actually fits reasonably well. In fact, she fits reasonably well regardless of whether she remains bound to Odium, or whether she is able to escape Stormform.

So are you. This is the name of the game, so, eh. But me treating "Vacation in Damnation" as a part of the Oathpact and you saying "perhaps it was not part of Oathpact, but it was added later" are birds of same feather. As for the actual strength of your argument, Occam's Razor suggests that what you are suggesting is too complicated. It also suggests that you and I have very different views on what Oathpact really is. To me, this is Honor entrusting Heralds with the means of defending Roshar from a very specific threat (Odium), and exacting a rather terrible price. My OP at the top suggests the motivation for that. To you, it seems like the Oathpact was some generic "now that you have come to this world, here are some powers for you", which later, when Odium came got a "but now I am going to send you to burn in hell" rider that was not part of the original deal.... I just don't see it happening. I reread the Prelude last night. Jez's comments and Kelek's internal monologue strongly suggest that the torment was part of the deal they agreed to. Your argument that there were addenda and modifications, and the torment is actually part of a completely different deal makes things much more complicated than they have to be.

According to a few WoBs spren existed on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation.

Gotta reread it tonight. Will respond to the rest afterwards.

Taravagnian is a fascinating character. Now, I generally disagree strongly with "intelligence is inversely proportional to empathy" statement: to me these are two independent axes and people can fall anywhere in the 2D space they create. I do however accept Taravagnian's situation as a curse - Nightwatcher draws his intelligence for each day from a normal distribution, and fixes empathy as 1-Intelligence. This is devious, and one of the reasons why I am a strong supporter of a theory that Cultivation is dangerous when she wants to be. Having said that, he reminds me a LOT Back to Mr. T. I suspect that he might turn out to be a similar type of actor. I commented elsewhere - if I were an Inkspren, I'd want to bond him NOW! The Diagram is fascinating. Whether personal insight or shardic help - it is still fascinating to me. Whatever must happen, I will not be surprised if it contributes to the plot development in ways similar to those I described in the spoiler. It is sort of the inverse of a popular proverb. Here it is "hate the messenger, not the message".

I am happy to see theories advancing Bavadin = Trell or Bavadin ~ Trell ideas. If what you are saying is true indeed (question to Brandon!), this is very subtle: on par with the opening lines of The Final Empire describing the Hero of Ages. If we knew back then that Bavadin is a "she", we'd probably pay more attention. My current MO is to suspect that every religion that cannot be tied to the goals of the presiding planetary Shard is the result of Bavadin's meddling. So... good catch.

In all fairness, this does not describe selfishness on Hoid's part. It implies that Hoid's underlying agenda may require war and death and destruction on Roshar. In a separate thread I put forth a theory that wars on Roshar are essentially what binds Odium to the Roshar system (Odium must Invest into Roshar heavily to be able to wage a fair fight, and thus is bound), and since the Letter implies that Hoid very much wants Odium to stay put on Roshar, he may be cheering for the coming Desolation, where Dalinar wants desperately to prevent it. Hoid's motivation can be completely unselfish here.

Did Vin make Ruin create something? Edit: we saw Shards fight. It seems like the war of Investiture attrition. Now, Vin did not splinter Ruin, she outright killed both herself and Ati. But still, we have a precedent. Although I will give it to you, this is a nice-sounding theory.

This does not jive with "Be tortured in Damnation when your services are not needed" as the original part of Oathpact.

Not to be contrarian here, but I think this premise is somewhat incorrect. First and foremost, KRs are not of Honor, they are of Honor AND Cultivation. Which is why Wyndle refers to Mother and Syl - to Father. Five of the ten surges are from Cultivation. Cultivation may be in mourning, but she is far from being withdrawn. Also, if you were to continue your interpretation it'd have to run something like that: Honor saved Cultivation's life but now she stands against Honor. Odium killed her promises (?) and she now protects him. The latter might make sense to me, but I still think the rest of the Rattle does not quite fit.