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To concentrate somewhat on the negative aspects of the book, there are certain progressions in the book that take way too much time to fully develop, and yet, there are scenes that would have been awesome to see, but that do not appear on screen, and, more importantly, do not move the action. (e.g., Kaladin and Shallan fly to Thaylen City together, spend a lot of time by themselves, but their relationship - not in a romantic sense, but purely in what they know about each other and how they talk to each other - does not evolve...). There are probably about 300+ pages of protagonists and some secondary/tertiary (I am looking at you, Teft) characters moping. This is all nice and everything, but there are only so many ways to mope and not be repetitive. On the bright side, this book has answered so many questions and has, I think, finally started pointing us in the real direction of what is going on on Roshar. It also moved away from the "us and them" mentality of humans fighting parshmen, and started asking more important questions of who is enslaving whom, and what sort of resolution is actually an acceptable/good one. 8/10.

Different Orders may get certain perks after different number of Ideals.

Not impossible, although I largely took it to be caused by the easy availability of ginormous amounts of Stormlight.

None of what you are saying contradicts my main point. She is the best Surgebinder precisely because she has practiced a lot and over a long period of time. But, btw, Szeth has been practicing with Honorblades much longer. In the ruby chase it takes Szeth and Lift - two Knights Radiant an enormous effort to get the ruby and fight off the Fused. Jasnah dispatches two Fused with exactly two motions.

You mean, Harmony here, right? Well, there goes my theory that one of the Letters is written by Aether Shards... )-:

Neither does Jasnah. This is why she is working on learning more all the time. But if you revisit the battle, where we see every currently aligned with Dalinar Knight Radiant (including the storming Assassin in White) perform, you will notice just how much more control Jasnah has, and how efficient she is. How much time does it take for her to take down two Fused, vs., how much effort it is for Kaladin, Szeth and others to deal with them? She is, at the moment, the best Surgebinder. The battle scenes illustrate that.

I do not admire him as a person. But I admire him as a Brandon Sanderson character. If his arc goes towards outright villain, I will admire him as a character much less.

I meant, confirmed appearances in Oathbringer... But I should've phrased my question better.

Pretty sure she has. Otherwise Shallan is one step ahead of her, but if you look at the control of Stormlight, there is still a significant difference.

Yak. Of course it is the Second Ideal of Stonewards. Messed up.

They have access to something that allows Connection? As an aside: is there a comprehensive list of confirmed and suspected worldhoppers?

Jasnah is the most accomplished Radiant at the moment. She knows that at some point of the progression Shardplate comes. Now, this can be second-hand knowledge, but I think that it may be first-hand knowledge. At some point someone needs to ask Brandon about the number of Ideals she has spoken. [Edit] Most accomplished save for Skybreakers.

This sounds like the Second Ideal of Skybreakers. [Edit.] Meant to write "of Stonewards".

Let's actually look at the dynamics of the relationship between Jasnah and Kaladin. It is very clear that Jasnah is very appreciative of both Kaladin's skills and his Windrunner passions. It is also clear that she does not agree with his priorities. On the opposite side, Kaladin is completely lacking any sort of awe or fear that the more savvy lighteyes have for Jasnah, but he also is in total ideological disagreement with her. As two equally opinionated Radiants and very strong personalities, they make for a good match in the Radiant War Council, because their bickering is what creates ideas. And this will continue in book 4, and I am looking forward to Kaladin yelling at the Queen of Alethkar, and getting verbal pushback from her in return. I also understand how shipping works, specifically, that any edge of a bipartite graph is subject to it. But I am also annoyed by the constant need to ship Kaladin to pretty much any woman he exchanges words with. What's next? Lyn? Or maybe he can steal Rock's wife because she is like a Shallan surragate? Or... Venli? When a romantic interest for Kaladin needs to be introduced, I am pretty certain Brandon won't be covert about it, and we will know.. Jasnah... We may have to wait another 20 years to find out what her deal is. Unlike many I do not think her childhood issues were due to sexual assault (what happened to her when she was six appears to have been something completely different), although judging by her response to Amaram, I would not be surprised if a drunken (or sober, although one must be a real idiot to do it sober) Amamram did try to force himself on her at some point - during her adult years.

I am actually quite happy to see this conversation start. Prior to Oathbringer, the going assumption of a lot of people was that the Diagram was influenced by Odium, and that Odium was controlling Taravangian. This: despite clear indications that this was all the work of Cultivation. Now, it seems like the things are swinging in the other direction. We have seen that Cultivation can play a very mean long game with only relatively light touches. We know that there are three people touched by her and two have already been pretty crucial in fighting Odium. So, it does stand to reason that Taravangian is another ace in her deck. My earlier assumption was that he would be the second Bondsmith, bonding Cultivation's godspren (Nightwatcher). This is still a possibility, in case of a double-cross; less so, if we have observed a Face-Heel Turn. I really want to believe that Taravangian is playing a much longer and more complicated game, because I see him as a tragic, not a villainous character, but if the result of his interaction with Odium is a true Face-Heel Turn, then he has slid from tragic and into villainous. I do not want that. I want a complex character with strange morals and with a different view of what it means to save Roshar to be actually trying to save Roshar his way. Even if unsuccessfully. Even if this interferes with Dalinar. But Taravangian carrying water for Odium? This is less interesting.

Jasnah deadpans:

I did not take Jasnah's thoughts about people saying similar things behind her back as a reference to a similar mental condition. It has been established that both of them, for different reasons, stood out and did not fit the traditional roles of high-born nobility of respective genders in Alethi society. Renarin's other ailment (the epilepsy?) is probably the real reason why his was subjected to such treatment (this is a condition with overt and observable symptoms, unlike his autism spectrum condition). As for Jasnah... I do not perceive her as being on the autism spectrum, nor do I think she has Asperger's. I would like to find out more about what happened to her when she was six, but it appeared to be something else entirely. Her thoughts on this matter and Dalinar's thoughts about it seem to match - it appears to have been a really unpleasant episode. However, the short conversation between Dalinar and Navani ("how did you mother her?" "by not letting her feel that she is being mothered") omits any references to it - perhaps Navani is thinking of a much older Jasnah (teenage years). Jasnah's flashbacks probably won't come for another 20 years or so. Makes me feel really old )-:

From what I understand from the the Malata and Taravangian scene at the end of the book, the Releaser spren as a group are pissed at humans for Recreance, and now want Odium to win. We can see a similar thing with Willshaper spren, but their reaction is kind of the opposite. They still want Odium to lose, but they decided to bond singers (or Listeners). As a meta point - I don't like when the same trick is used twice, and I don't think Brandon would use it this way in one book.

Jasnah gets roughly one per appearance.

Let me expand on that: It appears like every single Order has an easier time learning their "first" Surge than they do their "second" Surge, in the order that we know the Surges. I think that, so far, only Dalinar doesn't hold to this rule. Add to it Jasnah's goddess like prowess with Soulcasting and her somewhat more moderate use of Transportation. Which probably means that Willshapers will get blink. I think this is less about Odium and Honor not being incompatible and more of Honor/Cultivation-spren and Voidspren being perfectly compatible with both humans and dawnsingers. Also, Venli and Renarin have somewhat different situations. Renarin has bonded a single spren who appears to be corrupt. Venli has bond with two spren, one of which has been trapped by the other. Trapped, but not exiled.

Based on Oathbringer, they really aren't. Nale and the rest of them are dealing with the same issue Kaladin is dealing with (even when Kal does not know The Secret That Broke The Knights Radiant), which is the morality/righteousness of the cause of the humans vs. the cause of the singers.

I always thought that a version of it: "I will go where no one will" or "where no one will dare" as an Elsecaller's Ideal, but post-Oathbringer, I am happy to give it an even chance of being either Elsecaller or Willshaper.

Yep. They really are Stormlight Archives.

I am going to counter some of you. I think there may be valid reasons to believe that Bavadin wrote the first letter. The key reason for this is the reference to the original agreement by the Shards of not settling together with each Shard claiming personal space. I see this as a very Autonomy thing to say and a very Autonomy argument to make. On the other hand, letter two was sent to someone who was not reached, and Hoid gets a response from an entity/entities that use plural pronouns. It is not impossible for Bavadin to refer to herself in plural (after all she has many faces), but where is Autonomy in that? I view Autonomy as a very individualistic Intent that would not choose to write about herself in plural. My additional thought is that the author of the second letter is the whatever the new canon Shard/Shards is from Aether of Night. The basic reasoning goes as follows. There is a mention of aethers in the book. The actual Aether of Night Shard situation is not clear because Ruin got moved to Mistborn, and what we saw in the novel is more like a fight between some "sub-Shards", but fairly large ones. So, in my head, the theory goes that the new canon for that world is a Shard, not ruin anymore, that has two Slivers, or alternatively, two Very Large Splinters, who are responsible for the atrocities in Aether of Night-the-book. Hoid may have been trying to reach the original Shard, but instead is getting a reply from whoever is in its place now. Or perhaps, simply two Shards held by siblings.

Elhokar has been attracting Cryptics for a while. I was pretty sure he'd wind up becoming one in Oathbringer. Didn't expect to to be so dramatic and, well, life-ending... He turned out to be a better person than one would expect based on the first two books. His journey was to face certain truths about himself, so Lightweaver is a reasonable Order for him.