Treamayne

You are not crazy, it was confirmed by WoB:

Vasher did not want Vahr released - the choice was very A or B on purpose. It's implied later int he book that Vasher had already warned Vahr, when he was starting his movement, not to pursue a war with Hallendren (peaceful reform rather than rebellion). I think the reason Vahr does not try to persuade Vasher is because of their very first exchange: If he knew Vasher, then he knew that that answer would have been immutable.

I beleive that is correct - but White Sand also shows us that: It seems possible that some advance in one area (like Germ theory - which could also be an understanding of effect without truely understanding cause - sanitation improves health without having microscopes and being able to "see" microorganisms) could predate when we made that advance in what other sciences have been explored and which technologies are available Non-Cosmere Now I see what you mean. I agree, the way it is discussed seems more advanced that what is discussed and how. Not that half-a chapter before the invasion gave much time to get many details.

Concur whole-heartedly. As for the "Wisdom" I do think at least some of that was passed down (and likely distorted) from when Humans first came to Roshar I also don't think that the Devotary's stance, as presented, is the whole story. If we ever get more information, I expect we'll find that other nations/cultures have more/different ideas in this area. I also expect we'll learn that even when some knowledge/recognition of different mental health techniques were known - they were subsequently lost (due to Desolations, purposely avoided "because that was a Radiant thing and they bretrayed us", or even just the normal Alethi in-fighting). I don't see that Kaladin's made much progress - other than to recognize that different maladies need different treatments - and that people with depression similar to his can be helped with sunlight*, talking, and keeping active (feeling useful). *I say sunlight because if their depression is similar to his - his flashbacks show signs that at least some of his early depression was, in part, Seasonal Affective Disorder

Well, if you go and read the full post (page 4) that was excerpted from there is more explanation and context. @Ta'veren Kaladin summed it up, but it amounts to: - If "Wisdom of the Heralds" has handed down concepts like santitation for regular medicine and that has persisted for 4000 yrs, how are we expected to believe that nobody before Kaladin ever developed any mental health practices in that time (or that the Heralds didn't bring those concepts with them too) It's the values dissonance that the subplot exists only to give something for Kaladin to do while recovering from his own problems and find that "helping myself helps me protect others" I'm not saying I agree with the original post, but I think the points deserve consideration.

Also note, in TWoK ch 67: If you have read Mistborn: then you can connect these events to realize that expending large amounts of investiture (either slowly over a long time, or large bursts all at once) take a physical toll. If you are already exhausted, it will only be worse. Not only do you experience the physical impact, but you also no longer have the investiture propping you up.

Glad you are still enjoying the book. Overall, for me, the flashbacks were less about "what will happen" than "how did <this> become what I know to be the present." Kal's flashbacks in TWoK are second only to Dalinar's in Oathbringer to me. If you feel less tension about this, maybe you should consider why he might choose what you think he chooses. . .

Before going more in-depth, can I please inquire if you have read any other works from Sanderson (in case of spoilers) Here are the two I posted in another quote thread: Just the fact that thinking about giving is so important - even to a physical god Really resonates with why many bosses delegate

Thanks for that. Kind-of off topic, so I will spoiler tag this:

That's why I chose "other," not only is she a wonderful Gadgeteer Genius; but I love her no-holds-barred honesty (in deed and word) and really wish we saw more of her in the series.

Emperor's Soul As it comes up in multiple Cosmere stories, all human interaction has some level of manipulation; and the bolded portion here seems the most profound distillation of "live the example you want to see in others" showing the effect and reinforcing that manipulation is inherent (neither good not bad on its own) and it is our motives that matter Mistborn Part of moving on from loss is this - Fake it until you make it A well worded reason for trust and friendship Hammers home the gap from learning to experience Sixth of the Dusk Even without a physical symbol of the complexities of life, the bolded portion should be kept in mind - especially when you think things have been easy lately. . . Elantris Exemplifies how difficult it can be to maintain external optimism in the face of internal struggle And this shows the other side of internal struggle, how sometimes the best you can do for a friend is offer to be there - kind words can hurt even more Warbreaker Just the fact that thinking about giving is so important - even to a physical god Really resonates with why many bosses delegate HoA Ch 56: While this last one is not Cosmere, it is one of my favorite fantasy quotes ever and I would like to share it - Codex Alera, Book 3 Granted, it's mostly an epic "Shut Up Hannibal", but there are so many people that deserve this kind of verbal slap . . .

It's worth noting that even before HoA, while Keepers were generally more connected to Preservation, he already had enough of a connection to Ruin to defy orders and help topple a thousand-year empire. So, to me, his connection was there already but the events of HoA was him learning to make peace with that side of himself.

Welcome to the Forums. . . if you haven't found it already, you may want to start here. That said, I'll do my best: You may want to consider just letting the first read through relax and enjoy this story for itself; plenty of time to delve into the background later - and you'll only ever have a FIrst read of Way of Kings. Not quite on the bold part - Yes to Realmatic Theory concerning the Spiritual, Cognitive, and Physical Realms; but the portion of Realmatic Theory that governs the magic systems is Investiture. Each metal's allomantic, feruchemical, and/or hemalurgical ability differs in how it interacts with the realms. For example when an allomancer burns iron/steel, they are seeing their connection to the metal around them (the blue lines) which is a form of Spiritual Realm sight, but they only affect that metal in the physical realm when the push or pull. If you look at the Allomantic and Feruchemical tables, you will see some that some abilities are obviously tied to specific realms. Kind of correct, an individual's Spirit Web includes their Spiritual DNA (sDNA) and on that strand is encoded what (if any) Allomantic or Feruchemical abilities a person has (snapping would allow those abilities to be expressed in the Physical Realm) Object identity doesn't interact very much with the Metallic Arts, but you should have seen how much it can interact with the Selish arts in Emeror's Soul. No The three Metallic Arts were a Ruin and Preservation thing - other worlds may have 0 to 5+ arts (also depending on how you define an "art") Some worlds have numbers that are more important in that area; you should have seen which number was important on Scadrial during Hero of Ages. Remember above, about sDNA? That is one of the things Hemalurgy can steal; and is in fact how you saw it used in Era 1 (a Spike was used to steal a single Allomantic or Ferchemical Power from the person killed, then that power was added to the Inquisitor gaining the spike (sort of "stapled" a piece of the victim's could to their own to gain that ability). What it really sounds like the issue here is that you don't have a functional definition of Investiture. It's not synonymous with magic or spiritual realm or any of that; it is simply a third state of 'being.' In our world we have Matter and Energy, which can be converted into each other. The Cosmere adds Investiture to that list and both matter and energy can convert to/from investiture - Word of Brandon (WoB): RAFO on the last parts There is much we don't yet know about all of this, but there is a lot of speculation; as well as hope that Lost Metal will answer many questions. We don't know much about this either, but it is mostly assumed that what you saw in M:SH was a specific Elantrian thing due to the way they are affected by the Shaod. Worldhoppers you have already seen in books you say you finished, and in the Way of Kings may or may not have other or similar requirements - but the requirement will be due to their nature, not due to worldhopping in general. Have you read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell? Those shades are what the Ire feared. . . They just happened to: Depends on the Shard and the Planet. For example - the Metallic Arts were created by Ruin and Preservation (since they created the planet), but we don't know if Breath and awakening were created or just influenced by the Shard on Nalthis. Much of that is stuff we know won't be answers until near the end of the Cosmere. (e.g. All the Adonalsium stuff will be in Dragonsteel - which is planned to be the second to last series (right before Mistborn Era 4). Over centuries, the Vessel's mind begins to change to fit the Shard's intent more perfectly. WoB on Shardic minds:

I predict . . .

If there is a year 0, then 1024 years would be year 1023. . . However, analyzing by time elapsed rather than years makes it seem (if I've done it correctly) that the trilogy starts in Spring and four "winters" pass. TFE WoA HoA TFE takes place over about 16-18 months, more than 1 year passes (TFE ending in late summer/early autumn - WoA starting in mid-to-late autumn), WoA covers about four-to-six months (ending in late winter), another 15 months or so pass, then HoA starts in early-spring and takes only two or three months and ends late-spring/early summer.

She is fairly explicit about her motivations in RoW (I-5)

Fused didn't return before the Everstorm - Voidspren did (granting the Regal Stormform so that the Everstorm could be summoned).

The WoB about that was already quoted above which is why we know that a tweak of some kind is needed to detect kinetic investiture other than Allomancy. Intent is only suggested as one possibility for what may necessary, since we don't yet know what the "tweak" is - but we do know that you cannot create anti0light without Intent (which implies that knowledge that such is possible)

Can we please spin this conversation off into a separate thread so as to not derail the OP? I think the original question was answered (or @Amira) can chime in if her question still needs amplifying data.

Don't forget that the Fused Return does not immediately follow the Heralds' return to Roshar. A Herald would break, they would all be sent back. Then some years later the Desolation would start as the Fused began to return (and not all Brands returned at the same time). That's why Taln's statement at the gates of Kholinar talks about the Heralds having some time (but not too much) to teach humanity medicine, forging, leadership, tactics and strategy.

Glad you enjoyed the chapter and implications. I particularly like this quote: You can almost smell the smoke from their brains when faced with a Bridgeman who can think Well . . . (Ender Spoilers)

External Reading and comments - I'm going to spoiler this, not because of the traditional reason, but just so people who don't care can easily skip it: If anybody is interested in my personal beliefs, I am willing to share them in private message; but I am unwilling to debate them. Part of my belief is simply that faith and belief is very personal. As well you should be. If you may pardon the pun - it's a Bridge Chapter. . .

I guess it is two-fold, not only finding the harmony between the Rhytms of Preservation and Ruin (Which may, or may not, be th esame as the Rhythm of Harmony) and intent (SA Spoiler): That was why I said "variations on the Rhythm," but also consider this: If you look at a song it will be made up of notes in a pattern that may change tempo and timing. What if the sixteen metal pulses were made up of 8 sets of notes (doubled with 1 each of the spiritual componenet of pushing and pulling*) and those 8 sets of pulses together are the Rhythm of Preservation. So, a Seeker "hearing" a bronze pulse is only hearing that measure from the rhythm that corresponds to the active kinetic investiture being detected.

So, in the interest of Brainstorming, what if: We consider that A-Bronze defaults to work on the Rhytm of Preservation Bronze pulses are all variations on that Rhythm Ferchemy is a balance between Preservation and Ruin Therefore: Intent, plus attuning the Rhythm of Harmony should result in hearing Feruchemical pulses SA Spoilers:

You may want to check out this old post - but if you like linguistics the whole thread may be long but is worth reading. Note: @Harakeke includes an analysis of Shash in the images.