Toaster Retribution
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Posts posted by Toaster Retribution
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2 minutes ago, Chasmgoat said:
5 years!!! that is a long time... Congrats!!!
Thanks! It certainly is... feels both long and short though :-D
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That is how long it has been since I made one of the best internet-related decisions I have ever made: creating an account on the 17th Shard.
I am incredibly happy (and incredibly grateful) for having been able to be a part of this community during these 5 years. Before I was active on here, I was a member of the Bulbagarden Forums (Pokémon-themed forum). There I met an interesting guy who who I discussed fantasy and superheroes with. He told me to check out this great fantasy author named Brandon Sanderson, who wrote books in a setting called the Cosmere. I was also informed to be on the lookout for a character called Hoid. I read the samples of Mistborn: The Final Empire on Brandons website, and then got the books. One thing led to the next, and suddenly, the 1st of december, 2015, I made an account on the 17th Shard to ask a question about Axies the Collector.
Since then it has been a great five years, filled with "who-would-win" debates, wit battles, rap battles, hemalurgic beavers, debates about Amaram, discussions on media in general and the massive lead-up events to Oathbringer and Rhythm of War. I have tons of fond memories, thanks to a lot of people. As is custom with some of these kinds of threads, I will tag some of them: @Nathrangking, @Calderis, @Steeldancer, @Extesian, @Pathfinder, @maxal, @Ookla the Mok Turtle Soup and a ton of others. Thanks to you all. Also, thank you to all the mods, and also Chaos, of course (who I won't tag because I imagine that he is quite busy).
Anyway, that was mostly it I think. Thank you again, and here is to five more years!
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I am not sure that I see Kaladin and Syl as lovers as much as... well siblings, or very close friends. Their relationship is very much built around emotions and feelings, and the ability to help eachother. I think having them in a physical romance would take away something from that. But those are just my personal views.
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Well, the hemalurgic beaver can compound its way to eternal life, so this thread has to be just as immortal.
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So thoughts on her (and Shallans Unseen Court in general?). I wonder if she is the same girl who Adolin rescued in the Sadeas camp back in WoK.
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1 hour ago, Aleph-Naught said:
My impression (mostly from the latter chapter where she's interacting with Wit) is that Jasnah isn't necessarily homosexual but pansexual/sapiosexual, or maybe even asexual.
Brandon has spoken about this. I'll put the quote under a spoiler tag for lenght:
SpoilerAs I was working on the annotation for last week’s chapter, I realized it was touching on something I wanted to talk about in a more substantive way. So I decided to put that annotation off and make a separate, longer and more in-depth, post about it. This WILL have some small spoilers for the book, specifically some things to do with Jasnah and her sexual identity. If you’d rather just read it as it comes up in the story, then I’d suggest you head away now--and you can come back to this in a month or two after you’ve read Rhythm of War.
However, good communication with fans--particularly when it comes to expectations--is something I consider a foundational principle of my career. During the beta read, I had the chance to get a glimpse of how readers might respond to some aspects of Jasnah, and at that time I determined I’d do a post like this before the book came out.
So, here’s the problem: through the course of the series, people have been asking me about Jasnah’s sexuality. Gay, Bi, Straight, other? I usually answer with some variation of the following: “Jasnah would prefer you focus on other aspects of her identity, rather than her sexuality.”
I said this for various reasons. First, I felt it is in line with the character, and what she would want. Second, I’ve avoided talking too much about Jasnah as a general rule, since I plan her to be a major (perhaps the major) character of the back five books, and so it’s best to keep focus off her for now. There will be plenty of time for discussions about her later. Third, I generally don’t force relationships upon my characters as I write. It depends on the character, of course. (Navani/Dalinar, for example, had a romance planned as a main part of their storyline.) But for many characters, I give myself wiggle room to see what I feel works best as the story develops.
The end result of me being vague on this, however, was that I seem to have led a lot of people to think I was playing the Brandon game of: “If he won’t say anything about a topic, it must be mysterious, and therefore something we should theorize on a ton!” This is, obviously, my own fault.
I’ve heard a lot of different things via email and in person from people that have made me realize that a lot of people are wanting some mutually exclusive things from the character in this regard. As I started work on this novel, I decided I should say something in the book in order to pull back the shroud on the mystery a little, as I never intended it to get as big as it did.
I tried a few different things to see what worked and was most genuine for the character. In the end, I settled on what I felt was best and most in-line with how I view Jasnah. For those who want to know, and I’ll put this next part behind extra spoilers. Jasnah is asexual, and currently heteroromantic. Her feelings on physical intimacy are very neutral, not something she's interested in for its own sake, but also not something she's opposed to doing for someone she cares about. I tried several different things with the character, and this is what really clicked with me--after getting some advice, suggestions, and help from some asexual readers.
One of the reasons I wanted to make this post is because I wanted to address some of the people who are going to be disappointed as I worry that I (by making her a blank slate in this regard) accidentally led a lot of people to theorize and attach ideas they wanted to her--and so I’ll inevitably disappoint these people. (Though, hopefully, others will find the depiction I ended up with in line with the characterization and with Jasnah’s overall character mode.)
For the main body of the annotation, I wanted to talk about how Jasnah came about, and my inspirations. So if you’ll forgive me for a moment, I want to walk you down that path--and I think it might explain some of why I ended up making the decision that I did.
When I was first working on the Stormlight Archive back in 2002, I decided early on that I wanted a character like Jasnah in the books, as I was dealing with some gender politics and social structures. (I actually pitched Jasnah to myself as “The woman Serene thinks she is.” No offense to Serene, she’s just young--and I wanted to take a stab at a true scholar and master of politics.)
This decision made, I dove into reading a lot of work from feminist authors--and made certain to talk to some of my feminist friends in depth about how to accomplish an accurate depiction. A lot of times, when I’m developing a character, one or two things will leap out at me from readings, and I’ll start to use that to make up the core of the personality. (Much like the idea of Kaladin came from the idea of a surgeon, trained to save people, being sent to war and being trained to kill.)
Jasnah’s atheism was one of these things--specifically I wanted a rationalist humanist character as a counterpoint to the very mythological setting I was developing with the Heralds. I was extremely excited by the opportunity to have a character who could offer the in-world scientific reasons why the things that are happening are happening.
At the same time, one key takeaway I got from these studies was this: several authors and friends be frustrated with the idea that often in media and discussion, people pretended that a feminist couldn’t also be feminine. As it was explained to me, “Saying you shouldn’t have to play into society’s rules for women shouldn’t also mean no women should ever decide to play into some of society’s rules for women.” It was about choice, and letting women decide--rather than letting society pressure them. This was central to my creation of Jasnah.
And so, fundamental to my view of the character is the need for me to not force her down any path, no matter how much some fans may want that path to be the right one. Jasnah being as I’ve written her was just RIGHT. I’ve always viewed her as sharing some aspects with myself, and one of those is the clinical way I approach some things that others approach emotionally. While I wouldn’t say I identify in the same way as her, this part of me is part of a seed for who she is and how she acts. And with help from betas, I think I found her true voice.
All of that said, the people I’m most sad to disappoint here are those who I know were hoping for Jasnah to be gay. Out of respect for these readers, and to be certain, I did try writing the character that way in this book--and I felt it didn’t quite fit. Obviously, this is a character, and not an actual person--and so it’s all a fabrication anyway. I could absolutely write Jasnah as gay, and it wouldn’t undermine any sense of choice for a real woman.
However, it didn’t feel authentic to me. Plus, now that Way of Kings Prime is out, you all can know that a relationship with a man (Taln) was a plot point to her initial characterization. (I can’t say that I’ll stick with this, to be honest. It will depend on a ton of factors.)
When I discussed all this all with a good friend of mine who is far more involved in feminist discourse and the LGBTQIA+ community, she suggested that I make Jasnah bisexual or biromantic. I resisted this because I knew the only planned relationship I had for her was with a man, and it felt disingenuous to try to imply this is how I see her. (Though, in your head canon, there’s certainly great arguments for this.) The problem is that Shallan is leaning very bi as I’ve written her more, but she’s in a relationship with a man. I don’t know if this is a big issue in fiction, but it would feel somehow wrong to for me to write a bunch of bisexual characters who all only engaged in relationships with people of the opposite gender. It feels I could do more damage than good by trying to pretend I’m being inclusive in this way, without actually giving true representation.
This all might beg another question: will there be other characters in the Stormlight Archive (or cosmere) who are LGBTQIA+. Yes. (Including major viewpoint characters.) However, I worry that by talking too much about that here, I would imply a tone where I’m trying too hard to deflect. (One person I chatted with about this warned me not to send the “wrong message that queer characters are like representation tokens that we can exchange for each other for equal credit.” I found that a very astute piece of advice.)
I am quite happy with Jasnah’s depiction in this book, and while I’m sorry she can’t be everything everyone wanted, I’m excited for her development as a character in the back five books. My promise to you remains the same: to make the Cosmere a place where I explore all aspects of the human experience. And a place that represents not just me, but as many different types of peoples and beliefs as I can--depicted the best I can as vibrant, dynamic characters.
Many thanks to those in the LGBTQIA+ community who have written to me with suggestions, criticisms, and support. And thanks to everyone for being patient with me, and this series, as I continue to shape it.
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I really enjoyed this book. Most of it worked for me.
Navanis arc was one of my least favorite ones, given that I am not too interested in Light or fabrials (unlike most of the fandom, who loves that stuff). And Navani isn't really a character I relate to, or find interesting. But still, her interactions with Raboniel were awesome, and I really enjoyed the Navani + Kaladin team-up as well. The resolution felt a bit simple, but it was cool nonetheless. I would have preferred someone who isn't a Kholin to be the Bondsmith, but given that the Sibling is closely affiliated with the science and the tower, she makes sense as the second Bondsmith.
Kaladins arc was really good, and him trying to keep Urithiru safe during the occupation was really engaging, and had him do a bunch of cool things. I also really enjoyed Rlain and Dabbid, as well as Lezian as the primary villain of that arc. The payoff was great as well, and Kaladins interactions with Lirin made for really interesting scenes. I liked that Brandon manages to continue diving inte various philosophies, such as Lirins anti-violence, Taravangians extreme utilitarianism, Raboniels incredibly progress-focused mindset, and so on.
The Shadesmar arc was probably my favorite, to be honest. I really liked that Adolin got an arc of his own this time, and he had the best fight scene as well. His interactions with Shallan really worked for me too. I also had no problems with Shallan in this book, and her internal struggles, as well as her Ghostblood and spying plots were very interesting. Mraize finally got screen-time as well, and I really liked both Zu, Kalak and Godeke.
Dalinars arc was great, even though it was more of a setup for book 5. Ishar and the Taravangian-Rayse stuff made it really great though.
The one thing I didn't really was Venlis and Eshonais flashbacks, which felt pretty insignificant. Eshonais final flashback was pure awesomeness though.
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8 hours ago, Debarra said:
I'd even say he seems to have the biggest heart of all the Heralds we've seen so far
Except for Talenel "I'm glad that you abandoned me to face several millenias of torture alone, since that gave humanity lasting peace" 'Elin.
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And mentally. At least, that was what he believed.
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3 hours ago, Nymeros said:
Why is hair thinning? I didn't expect that. Is it thinning because his body is slooooooowly (so slowly) aging or because his body adapts to his mental state or was he just thinning before he became a Herald? If I had a tailor made body from God I would ask for a full head of lusciousness.
I wonder if it has to do with how he percieves himself. He does consider himself to be very old (which he is) and quite sick and tired of everything. I wouldn't be surprised if that affected his appearance.
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1 hour ago, SomeRandomPeasant said:
Alot of readers are saying that Shallan's case of dissociative identity disorder is either a really great portrayal or a really weak portrayal. Is Shallan a realistic representation of DID because I have no idea.
I also have no idea how realistic Shallan is, but I do know this: she is an attempt at a portrayal, and not a harmful one. I think that should be enough. People are different, and so their experiences from mental illnesses will also be different.
7 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:I'm impressed he managed to perpetuate the worst stereotype of MPD/DID: that murder I committed didn't count because it was one of my other personalities that did it
What is wrong with this? It was a twist that worked fine.
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35 minutes ago, Ookla the Intimidating said:
But definitely! This antagonist, whatever you may call him, can get crap done! Makes me wonder what we'll do in book five when he'll probably kill Dalinar or something
I think Moash will have one of the highest killcounts in the series when it comes to killing important characters.
3 hours ago, LuckyJim said:What's really impressive is that he managed to survive for so long, villains in Stormlight don't usually last all that long, and Moash is behind only Taravangian and Mraize in how long he's managed to stick around.
Moash has been around longer than Mraize, depending on how you count. And also, Nale is up there as well, given that he appeared before Mraize did in WoR.
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Would Nale really be Lawful Evil though? Wouldn't he more be Lawful Neutral, in that he is plain and simple about obeying the law.
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1 hour ago, More Cynical Than Funny said:
I love him! I hereby name him Fritjof!
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14 minutes ago, robardin said:
He also said something about how Skyward 3 would not be "plot advancement" so much as "fun action stuff", with him expanding the series arc now to four books to allow for this, so I'm guessing the "fun stuff" is simply fun (and quick) to write, if not to edit :).
Spaceship go BOOM.
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13 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:
@Toaster Retribution this man needs a hemalurgic beaver.
Everyone needs a hemalurgic beaver. I'm selling 'em on Amazon for 30 gold coins each.
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He was a really cool ostrich.
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I guess Brandon was serious when he said he wanted to meet deadline on Skyward...
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I have seen a lot of people talking about Kalaks goals, Kalak being Restares, and so on, but I haven't seen a thread purely dedicated to discussing our impressions of Kalak as a character. Did you like him? Dislike him? Indifferent?
Personally, I was surprised at how casual his attitude was. I expected him to be a constant nerve-wreck, but he didn't give off the vibe he had at Gavilars feast, or in the prelude. He felt much more relaxed. But he was a bit funny, and seemed to be less dangerous than Nale or Ishar.
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First off, Shallan has always been the most controversial, and most disliked, out of the three Stormlight-mains. So that is not really anything new. I agreed that parts of her OB-story felt frustrating, but I actually really did enjoy her in RoW. Partially, I think it was because she was actually doing interesting stuff, namely chasing spies, chatting with Mraize and then the whole Kalak-situation. I also thought that her arc felt way more complete this time around, and, while I certainly prefer reading Shallan over Veil and Radiant, I thought Brandon pulled of the personas pretty well.
As for your point about the stakes, yes, it does feel a little meh that everyone can survive more or less anything, but I think the stakes will rise now when we have weapons that can kill spren permanently.
50 minutes ago, Ookla the Disproportionate said:I mean...calling established and very real mental illnesses ‘cringe’ is honestly super tacky but whatever floats your goat I guess...
Not sure that this is what OP was doing. He/she found Brandons portrayal of it cringe, not necessarily the real-life phenomena, which is not at all the same thing.
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8 hours ago, The Ookla's Guard said:
I too get some mixed messages about Thrawn between Rebels and the Books. I'm wondering if someone has found a way to explain this behavior that just doesn't fit in with Thrawn. I mean, I haven't finished the new Thrawn trilogy, so I can't say much for sure.
I do feel that Thrawn was probably forced to rely on the Magistrate because of her efficiency and his likely lack of alternatives. As presented in Rebels and the Books, Thrawn is a character who likes results, and the Magistrate can get him those results. I would like it personally if they pretty much only used the Mandalorian to introduce Thrawn into this period before addressing him more directly in some other form of media. My reasoning behind this is that Gideon already fills the role of "main antagonist", and I like him in that role, throwing Thrawn in as a villain seems like overkill. He would be better off as a villain like Sidious was in Episodes IV and V, that is to say, in the background controlling the bad guys. I hope that you're following me on this train of thought.
SpoilerYeah, I totally get what you mean. Personally, I would find it interesting if they did some kind of struggle between Gideon or Thrawn for control over the Imperial remnants. After all, I can defenitely see those two having different goals. But agreed, they shouldn't just replace Gideon with Thrawn, or something to that effect. The fact that the Magistrate wasn't using stormtroopers also tells me that Thrawn and Gideon aren't working together, since Gideon and his minions seems to be exclusively using Imperial troops.
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I thought about this too. Vivenna is much more helpful than her master. Alethkar is falling, and Vivenna intervenes despite having other things to do. Urithiru falls, and Vasher doesn't do anything, despite literally living there.
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23 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:
Have you watched Rebels? Because
Thrawn is THE major antagonist in Season 3 and 4 of Rebels, as well as possessing a newly forged backstory in a trilogy written by Timothy Zahn.
In terms of how he's characterized in the new canon versus how he was in the old canon...I can't say, because I haven't read the old books yet (despite me owning two copies of the first one!). But it's...different. I think his characterization by Zahn is stronger in both cases than his characterization by Filoni. But that's because of the Rebels format, not the character, IMO.
Haven't watched those seasons of Rebels yet, but i have read "Thrawn" and "Thrawn: Alliances", as well as Book 1 and 3 of the old Zahn-trilogy (school library didn't have the middle book for some reason). Anyhow, I know what Thrawn does in Rebels pretty well, and Im not terribly fond of the direction they went with him there either (Thrawn explicitly turned down orbital bombardment of civillians in "Thrawn", but does execute it in Rebels without much hesitation as far as I understand). So, while I love Filoni, I am not super-confident in his ability to write Thrawn.
But yes, old Thrawn is a bit different from new Thrawn. I will spoiler this, since it relates to the old Thrawn-trilogy, which you haven't read (wont contain much in terms of actual plot spoilers though):
SpoilerOld Thrawn is, as far as I remember, more of an Empire loyalist, whereas he is loyal to his people and their cause in his new iteration. He is more callous and, while not needlessly cruel, certainly more of a classic villain than he is in the new Zahn-books. I can see old Thrawn being more lenient with his minions behavior, at least if it worked in his/the Empires favor. New Thrawn is more of a good guy who joins the lesser evil for the greater good, while old Thrawn is a more sympathetic bad guy who is genuinely loyal to the Empire.
Anyway, I hope they stay consistent with Thrawns current portrayal. Gideon works fine as a ruthless Empire-loyalist. Let Thrawn be Thrawn.
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The latest episode was great, but one thing has me a little worried:
SpoilerThrawn. I absolutely LOVE Thrawn. He is one of the best villains/antagonists in anything ever, so I really hope Favreau and Filoni don't screw him up, which is why they need to explain why one of Thrawns minions (The Magistrate) ran her own private oppressor regime for no good reason. Part of Thrawns greatness as a character is that he isn't The Emperor, Tarkin or Dooku. He isn't cruel for crueltys sake, but actually tries to avoid being bad as much as he can. So Thrawn would never condone the things that The Magistrate is doing. I really hope that they write Thrawn as Thrawn, and not as a purely villanious Empire-loyalist, because that is not who he is.
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5 years (and three days)...
in General Discussion
Posted
Uh oh... well, I am a Fullborn toaster, so I can probably handle it (fun fact though, the toaster on my profile pic is dead and gone, sad but true).
Thanks, and the same to you, you are awesome! All hail the nathrangs (what do those even look like anyway?)!
Haha, wow, that GIF is great!! That totally made my day! The video was fun as well... someone should do a high budget version of that, it would be hilarious. And I must say, your GIF-making skills are seriously impressive. I can't make one on my computer, so props to you! And thanks for being great!