Darth_Hel

Just a few comments on things said here. About Azir, I could see this as the place that Taravangian cared least about. Beating Dalinar was important, and mentally he always wanted Dalinar to admit he was right. The Shattered Plains had a perpendicularity so that was important. Thaylenah’s ports were important, but that seemed more about beating Jasnah personally, otherwise he could have just skipped to the assassination back-up. But Azir is only a small area now, and Taravangian never had any real connection to Adolin, so it was probably the least important area to him strategically and personally. Preservation and Cultivation are mentioned as good at future sight. Endowment probably is pretty good at it as well, considering she seems to have made it a cornerstone of her magic system with the returned. So, Zahel, Azure, and Nightblood are also things she’s help create directly/indirectly that could be mucking up Taravangian’s plans. Moelach is an Unmade. If he can access bits of Fortune that Odium has trouble seeing, then it is perhaps a result of whatever investiture he was made of before corruption. Also, as others have pointed out, we probably only saw a small portion of the death rattles created. Ones that either did come true, or were deliberately subverted. So, between vagueness and possible unreliability, there wasn’t much reason for Taravangian to look into them anymore once he could dive into Future Sight himself. He used them as a crutch for extra info before that.

So, even the Diagram wasn’t perfect. He thought Dalinar had to die, and some other problems. It also seemed to occur during a time when not much was happening that wasn’t caused by Taravangian. A lot of it was probably just the most likely occurrences in the chain, still a great ability but more like knowing that knocking down the first domino will likely knock down the last one. Also, there are now several forces opposing him that are his equal or at least throw a wrench in his plans. Hoid, Cultivation, Renarin, Whatever Nohadon is, etc that have access to future sight or the ability to block future sight/fiddle with things. Future sight in the Cosmere is probabilistic with no guarantees that people will act a specific way. More intelligence and power means he can probably see and plan for the most likely responses with his own responses where they’re unlikely to be able to counter it. But, it seems like he has to be focused on that specific area, he’s not all knowing at all times. So, people taking a path he didn’t plan for can still throw him, or intervention by a force that can throw things onto a much less likely path. This is why I think that counting Cultivation’s plans as having failed is premature. She’s had longer to practice all of this, longer to plan, and apparently had pretty good future sight capabilities. I’m not sure that she didn’t plan Nohadon’s intervention, or at least see it.

I think the least trustworthy is probably still Battar so far, with Kalak as a possible dark horse due to fear. I’m not sold on their worst traits no longer being fully amplified now. We saw little of Battar in this book, and what we did see was just showing her amplified greed, with not too much of an effect on this book. It makes me think that this was set up for the back half, where either we get a betrayal or guilt arch from her. Maybe she betrays the Heralds or if she does heal she becomes a mole close to Odium for them and betrays him.

They’re not automatically healed by the Oathpact reforging. A lot of them have mental illnesses that might be alleviated but Battar got pure greed. She might sell out to Odium and force a return if it helps his plans.

There’s been at least two Dawnshards in the system. Rysn’s Change and Hoid’s Exist. Could have been either of them. Its said Kalak gave Taln a weapon that he lost, not that he made it.

I don’t think the timeline lines up. nightblood was based upon Honorblades or Shardblades. So, it came after Taln was a Herald. More likely he had a Dawnshard.

Would Harmony know if Valor changed vessels? Endowment saying not to find Valor might be hiding that she helped the previous vessel escape, and not to look for them. I wonder if the help given could be making the previous vessel into a returned? Allowing them to die and give up the power, forget their past. Crackpot theory, Vasher is Valor’s previous vessel. Brought back, memory wiped, but still driven to be involved in major Cosmere events.

Could Harmony be seeping into Discord without noticing? Harmony thinks that seeking out Valor would allow a harmonious reunion, but instead it might be Discord if Valor truly does not wish to see Hoid (and he may even mess up whatever Valor is planning).

Can’t know for sure, but I think before the end of the Cosmere, Nightblood’s creation timeline will include Valor somehow. We know Valor asked Endowment for help, and Endowment implies she helped without personally meeting with Valor. Vasher and Nightblood seem to be the most Cosmere affecting result of Endowment’s magic (except probably breaths to store memories). Could Valor know that a Shard is out there killing other Shards and have its intent allow it to avoid that fight?

I’m not sure exactly how “bonded” Adolin and Maya actually are. The Oaths were used to bond Radiants and their Spren, but Adolin prefers promises. So, it may be less a formal bond and more just friends helping eachother type situation. Less formal and permanent.

They are basically anchored there. If they want to cleanly leave, I think they need to take time to fully unwind the extra investiture they put into the planet. Harmony might be a weird one since Ruin and Preservation created the planet and humans, so it might destroy all of it.

This is why they seem well suited

Questioner When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them? Brandon Sanderson Odium never really settled on a planet. He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things. Leaving would be very difficult for him. It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process. So yes it is very tough to leave. Phoenix Comicon 2013 (May 24, 2013) This WoB just came up in another post. I think it explains why Cultivation might have needed Odium dead or distracted if she wanted to leave the world so he couldn’t hunt her down while she was wounded

I wonder if she’s weaker from having to rapidly divest like this. Weak enough that Odium on his own could kill her. So, she’d require Odium to be distracted by other things to make an escape.

I think that could go both ways like you mention briefly in that first part. Maybe Cultivation’s plan and nudges were good enough to hit that very rare sweet spot. it’s also possible that this was her plan, but she nearly failed anyway. It required the intervention of whatever/whoever Nohadon is to make it come together. She planned to have Dalinar do what he did, yet he didn’t see that option until Nohadon stepped in and fixed it. She could be both an excellent planner and not perfect.

I thought this was Kaladin when Ishar forced the depression on him.

There were at least two. The Change Dawnshard that Rysn has, and Hoid/Zellion’s Exist Dawnshard.

I was thinking it was probably the Change Dawnshard, and that it’s possible that Change wouldn’t work on Cultivation because her intent is already based around Change. So, these combined scene could be interesting if Taln shows up with what should be a powerful weapon and it fails to do anything. Gets a lecture on how little he understands. Although who knows, maybe it would work more.

Just from this story, I feel most comfortable that Reason and Valor have some role to play. With Hoid searching for Valor and Reason set up as a mystery to solve. But, can’t be 100% sure.

I do think Shards would be more worried if they found out a Shards had a Dawnshard but based off Hoid at the end of the book I don’t think know where all the Shards are, and they don’t seem to be able to locate Reason either. So, these combined would mean they might not know to worry.

Reason is hiding, extremely well. At least that’s the belief of several characters who should know. But, how? Shards seem to be known by their touch on the wor”d, and how they interact with investiture, and Reason is either a very light touch or none at all. So, assuming the vessel isn’t dead, and hasn’t removed itself from interacting with the Cosmere, then what has Reason done? WoB says that one Dawnshard is different from the others, Dawnshards are pre-shattering and have different rules, and RAFO’d whether Change could mess with a Shard’s intent. Is Reason’s Vessel both a Shard and Dawnshard? If any Shard could reason out how to best use a Dawnshard to modify intent it would be Reason themselves. If the intent of Reason is modified, then the others may not know to look for the new intent. Reason’s vessel could act without notice. Barring that, Dawnshards have their own power. If the Vessel acts through that power instead of Reason’s investiture, it could allow them to appear as though they aren’t acting at all. No ripples of power that can be traced back to Reason.

Is Cultivation’s plan bigger than expected? Nohadon specifically has been the center of a lot of speculation but he could be part of Cultivation’s machinations. We know that Taln lost a weapon trying to kill Cultivation. Speculation is that it makes the most sense for this to be a Dawnshard. The Change Dawnshard being on Roshar and somehow residing on Aimia. But, how did it get there. A lot is made of Nohadon’s philosophical outlook, but it’s important to remember that he seemed to be a warrior king and Surgebinder before that. Like Dalinar, not a man you’d expect to be a Philosopher, but what made him change. Dalinar had Way of Kings, but what about Nohadon. Perhaps, Cultivation gave him the Dawnshard or arranged for him to get it? As a former Dawnshard holder, his spiritweb would be modified and he’d become heavily invested. He’d Change as it commands from Warrior to Philosopher. He’d write a Book that allows Dalinar to do similar. Then he appears to Dalinar twice. Both times to discuss major things that need to Change. The first discussion is where “Sometimes a hypocrite is just a man in the process of Changing” and then the second conversation is about how the power of Honor needs time to learn and Change. So, could the man have given up his DawnShard to guardians in Aimia, his Shardplate (Cord’s Plate) to guard it, and retreated to the Spiritual Realm to continue guiding people to Change? Also, probably unrelated but the two foods from Nohadon’s visions are bags of grain and Shin Bread. Possibly a vegetarian like Hoid?

I'm not sure they'd have to kill the vessel to split them. It might be possible to split the vessel themselves in half, like how hemalurgy steals part of a soul. Perhaps you could steal half the soul of the vessel, and have in essence two vessels that are the same person but different entities. Or, Bavadin of all of the Shards probably has the largest knowledge about Avatars and Splinters. If she could force an Avatar or Splinter of Harmony against his will, one that he could fail to control, that could use up a ton of his power. This could create a pseudo second shard with a different intent from the same pieces.

It's possible that he could have, and Harmony even tells him that he has a 1 in 100 or so chance of figuring out a way to maybe do that. But, Wayne knew that doing so would possibly doom the world and everyone else. Him not clinging to the chances is what added to his heroism. He wasn't sure to die, in which case he had no real agency, but he put all those lives ahead of his chance to survive.

Autonomy seemed to want to break Harmony's hold on Scadrial, and declared Scadrial too dangerous to survive in its current state. But, then she just leaves after her avatar's plans are defeated? Telsin even says that Autonomy was pretty sure that Wax was better than Telsin. So, did Autonomy expect to lose, and did she accomplish her main goal regardless? Wax manages to split Harmonium into Larasium and Atium by using Trellium as the splitting point. But, previously the Set had been trying that for a while and it didn't work. It makes sense that their attempts to create Atium and Lerasium by splitting it with Trellium would have been near the beginning of their bomb research. Wax finally tries it much later, because he's years behind. What has happened in the meantime? Autonomy invested in the planet and blinded Harmony, and Harmony gained a shade following him (believed to be Discord). Did Autonomy do to Harmony what Trellium can now do to Harmonium? Autonomy came in and used the plans on the surface as cover to split Harmony back into the start of two shards again. Possibly draining the Bands of Mourning as unkeyed investiture to kickstart Discord's creation. Now, with the Investiture of Autonomy having been used to split Harmony, the intent is within Trellium to fully split Harmonium beyond the explosion.