hypatia

Yes, it is more the way Moash is acting than Elhokar death - this was a possibility from the start on and this was -IIRC- twice mentioned from Elhokar himself. I too thought Moash were following the steps Kaladin had started but in the end I think he was just using the Parshmen. He had known that Kaladin was with them and I feel Moash knows Kaladin better than the other way round. Over all - what other chance was there for Moash against a full Knight Radiant? I think the decicion to bind these people to himself, to send them into the fight was from the beginning Moash's plan to paralyse Kaladin. There was so much wrong with the salute....

@ScavellTane That's what I thought, too. Renarin doesn't see the future like Odium, not even like Mr T with many possibilities and comes to conclusions. He just fortells special events someone else thinks will happen. I think he is something like a spy inside of Odium's future telling and perhaps even the one who is therefore able to prevent this possible future Odium is trying to gain. This would also match Sja-anat's title "Taker of Secrets". As for Sja-anat and Glys - she isn't only a Corruptor but also a Creator. She corrupts the children/spren of Honor and Cultivation but her own creations are the ones who are called "her beloved children" in the picture. Now if Glys really is her "son" , perhaps he isn't a corrupted spren, more something entirely new.

There were moments of nearly crying: -Taln and Ash - Renarin in the flashback - Jasnah and Renarin Really crying: - "I am brocken." - " Who isn't?" After a bad year with my husband's death this was like a slap in my face. Crying but more tears of rage: -Elhokar/Gavinor In that moment neither Moash nor Brandon Sanderson would have survived in my presence. And Kaladin - you remember your second oath? There is the epitome of someone who can't defend himself in this chaos - a little boy - and you freeze? And all was present again at the end of the book - I'm looking at you, Navani! She doesn't even ask about her grandson - Urgh.

I listen to suger up the boring things like household chores. And slightly more interesting: Knitting fo Christmas - at the moment a double-face shawl with a sequence of the Mandelbrot Set for my son.

To the problem with history of Roshar: We have also this WoB that the Herdazian and Horneater predate the arrival of Honor and Cultivation. Doesn't this mean there was human population on the planet before the Odium-newcomers came? The Shin? This would also explain what Honor was doing before the second wave - the Listener weren't of Honor but of Cultivation and without someone else he wouldn't have had a purpose. Perhaps with the Eshonai book (RiP) we will get the more ancient history.

Back to Jezrien - his Honorblade should have the power of the Windrunner and more - where? Windrunningpower I see with Szeth but nothing addictional - perhaps because the original owner is still alive ( more or less). Is it important for the plot of Odium to order the same person to kill Jezrien who ends up with his blade? Without Dalinar he lacks a champion and with the acceptance for a duel he needs someone to power up relatively fast. My other question - are all Heralds feeling this death? Is Nale also passing out and is this able to change his pleadging to Odium?

Don't know if I missed something, but Odium gives Amaram an uncut smokestone. In the end he has an amathyst heart.

@Stark Yes, that's my problem too, this looks like a pointless death. Really, I think she's dead, but I consider a compromise - until proven wrong I believe Eshonai died in order to save the escaped Listeners. For her the people were always on the first position, not she herself and her own life - in contrast to Venli.

So the taboo with touching dead Listeners comes because humans used to hack the corpses in pieces for the gemhearts in the songs - can't say I haven't expected something like that. And Ulim calls himself the Spren of Redemption. He escaped - Whom?

I expect - more Bridge Four - more about the "man who calls himself Taln" and the other Heralds. And I think they will start to die (because of this WoB with the connection of the Oathpact and the survival of the Heralds) - more of the Unmade I want to know whose armies are gathering ante portas Kholinar All in all - I think this book will rip out my heart - multiple times. To be honest - at the moment I expect everyone to die and I'm working myself in a kind of "Renarin-State" (...we will all die...)

With this deed I - the Shard of Sacrifice - will destroy you, Odium. I will claim your power to prevent something like this in all the future... Oh yes, she will call me on the phone, but as I know my child she will only tease me.

I'm feeling more like an idiot....or the most motherly mother of this whole f..ing earth. It was the last one.

I'm outing myself - I HAD it - and then I wraped it in giftpaper and sent it to my daughter as a birthday present. I'm crying since I left the post office....

Oh my - doesn't the flame look like a flowing red scarf?

Is there really a girl with white hair coming out of the perpendicularity? And it seems like the humans are followed by fire. Lion and dragon - Honor and Cultivation?

Is anyone able to help - what has Vedel possibly to do with keys and a divider for navigation?

@king of nowhere I know the mechanisms of slavery in our history and there were even more motivation for slavery in ancient societies. This was a more In- Roshar -question - is there any indication in - let's say - Alethela? Something in the visions or in Jasnah's studies?

All of this discussion leads me to same questions: Was there the priciple of slavery before the enslavement of the Listeners? Is there a nice excusion for the possibility to enslave other humans - especially Darkeyes? If it would only be the Parshmen I wouldn't have so much problems, but all in all it looks like ordinary greed. Slavery is over all a good way to become wealthy for some groups. Really - I don't think Odium will need the Parshmen, there is so much more hatred in Roshar than before the Last Desolation - homemade by the humans themselves - that he doesn't need this poor group of beings to let everything explode.

Can't help myself, but since I read these chapters all I can think is " Jasnah is conjuring a mythical metal on the cover..."

Another party on the search for Honorblades is the one, who "traded" the Honorblond of the man who calls himself Taln with an ordinary Shardblade. Perhaps even a Herald -Jezrien- is possible, if he stops drooling. On the other hand - a toilet is such a ridicolous idea it's nearly brilliant, who would look there for something "holy"?

@Toaster Retribution Yes, they were lovers, but they were also under the attack of someone with hatred as his weapon. The Radiant Orders were a mixture of Honor and Cultivation, but wasn't the system purely from Honor? And it seems like there was a time when the two Shards were working peaceful with one another - as there was a time of peace with humans and Listeners. We have not one, but two stabilized hybrid races - this should only be possible without war. But this could all change when Odium was doing "the sort of thing he does". Really - I want informations about Cultivation and the religions aside of Vorinism.

Perhaps this WoB (Leipzig, Book Fair) is able to connect and expand the possibility: Qu.: Odium has something like the meaning of God's divine wrath.How is wrath on its own able to cause such terrible destruction? He primaraly attacked dishardic worlds (Sel, Roshar). Could he have sawed discord between Shards there to an extent of fighting against each other? A.: That's a good theory. That he got them fighting each other. I won't tell you wether it happened or not, but it is a good theory. It's fully within his capacity. That's the sort of thing he does. Influencing only one race on Roshar wouldn't cause discord/hatred. And there is the fact that the Radiants were seen as traitors to the humans. Honor on the human side and Cultivation on the side of the Listener?

The name of this guy is also odd - in this scene are fab-rials and a pain-rial mentioned and he tells us his name us Rial.

I think a Parsher Radiant is more possible at the moment because they don't change constantly their spren. They can now make a lasting Nahelbond. This would also prevent bonding with a voidspren.

Perhaps remembering Evi now is similiar to Vin. In this chapter he cuts the last string to a Odiumspren and doesn't use the Thrill in his duel. And a question - is it something in the language with fab-rial and pain-rial in a scene with a former bridgeman named Rial?