hypatia

My problem is that this region wasn't a part of Alethela, but of Natanatan in the Epoch Kingdoms. It is the part nearest to the Shattered Plains - perhaps everything has to do with that. But there is this thing with Tanalan - if Rathalas really was part of this Crownlands, it was he and his family who ended with Oathbringer, the old sword of Sunmaker, not one of the "ten sons". And there's the feeling, that Tanalan acts like this sword was an old heirloom, nearly something sacred, not just an object of wealth and power. How about not eleven sons, but only one or even a daughter, who was exiled in this region, when ten warlords had taken the best parts of Alethkar?

Ah, I see the problem. No, my question was about the consequences of the Desolations for the Singers. We just know about the losses of the human population, not the death rate of the Singer. And then the map of the Silver Kingdoms, where the whole landmass is divided in Human Kingdoms - no land left for the original population. My core question would be - how many Singer were on Roshar at the Last or False Desolation, when obviously the human expansion left no room for them? I just can't see Humans and Singer living friendly side by side between the Desolations.

@Leyrann Perhaps, but I'm not convinced Odium is interested in any of the population. He needs to fill his void with emotions. What we know about the history - even if I'm sure there will be more - is that Roshar was populated with the Singers. Humans were allowed to settle in Shinovar. Then they started to expand and we end up with Roshar fully within human hands - I can't see a refugium for the Singers to regenerate in the times between the Desolations. Nowadays the tide seems to have changed - with the "help" of the human population the Parshmen are again spread all over Roshar, whereas the Humans - as said above - are divided and were diminishing themselves over the years without an enemy. As to Odium using Humans to fight Humans - I think this clever, because whoever dies it will be a Humans. For the question why Odium hadn't done this before - perhaps this is now possible because Honor is dead.

I think we are looking to much at the Desolations from the human side. Granted, the humans had to start anew every time - but wasn't this also a problem for the Singers? Perhaps more so because they need to be in special forms to have children. Another problem should be the settlement - did the Singer have a region where they were able to lick their wounds? For me the shorter times between the Desolation look more and more like a Pyrrhic victory for Odium.

Thank you @The One Who Connects for a connection. Perhaps I'm too harsh with Gavilar, but this follows the problem with the Codes of War. My problem is that I don't know about the situation in Alethkar shortly before Gevilar starts to 'unite' the country under his rule. But what I see are people who were following the Codes - Dalinar tended to kill them in order of Gavilar. The ones being gifted with loyality, who were fighting for their people, were the ones on the other side. For me this is another irony - that Gavilar wouldn't have had a problem to enforce the Codes with his opponents. On a sidenote - what is it with these "peacemakers" the old Highprince is talking about? Were they identical with the Brightlord and son in the first flashback or Tanalan sen.? What had Dalinar done with them?

Back to the crownland - To the story of the 10 sons of Sunmaker - I think it nearly unbelieveble, the king with exactly 10 sons. For me this sounds like a legend to legitimize the ruling highprinces. This is just too convenient. Since when did this region belong to Alethkar? After Natanatan had broken? Who named it crownland and whose crown is this talking about? Did Rathalas belong to this region? Was Tanalan more than a Highlord, but just not called Highprince because there was no princedom? Was his family defending the crownland against the highprinces? With Oathbringer? I like the possibility with the Oldblood - they once were the kings/crown. But how so? Did they descend from the old kings from Alethela? Is it possible this was an independant country? It is nicely sheltered - the Unclaimed Moutains to the East, the Frostlands to the South and even the Lake of Spears is a natural border. Open borders are with Sebarial, perhaps Bethab to the West and Kholin, perhaps Thanadal to the South. This can'-t explain why Elhokar seems to have no access, but perhaps why this wasn't a part of the other princedoms. Really - knowing the Alethi highprinces the logical explanation why they hadn't occupied this region is because whoever was in charge was able to fight them down - until the Kholin brothers.

If so I can't remember. Another idea - is it possible this has something to do with the Oldbloods? This region at the times of the Silver Kingdoms wasn't mostly a part of Alethela but of Natanatan. For me this "crownlands" with a river named "Deathbend" really begs for questions. By the way - I like to see this imaginary eleventh son as a black sheep - the one who didn't like fighting or competing but singing and dancing and generally getting everyone on the nerves up until they saw this region as jinxed.

The crownland - problem is a pet peeve of me - but I don't have an answer. The thing is - after Sunmaker Alethkar was divided into the princedoms for his 10 sons and didn't have a king. The next king as we know about would be Gavilar - what happened with this part of Alethkar without a "crown"? Was it empty? Or was there another son everyone had forgotten about? An eleventh princedom? Over all I'm nearly desperate to get more informations.

Feel free to correct me... IIRC there were 3 points from WoBs to revive a mostly-dead spren - It's not easy, but this is possible with the original Radiant. Now whereas I don't think we will see a bunch of really old Exradiants, I'm rather sure a descendant would do great. -The one reviving a spren has to be within the parameter of the order of this spren. As it looks like Protoradiants are speading like mushrooms this days, I don't think of this as the real problem, too. -Whatever was ripped off at the Recreance must be replaced with a part of the one who will revive a spren - now there I see a problem. This leaves too many possibilities to end up bad for the human part. I fear whoever will revive a spren will end up altered loosing the part a dead spren needs to live again, perhaps in coma or even dead.

@Yata After nearly 30 years I expect partly results at the minimum. Imo Gavilar hadn't any idea what to do with Alethkar when he became king. Really - his only idea was to force more war on Roshar, to sacrifice more people who are needed to defend from Odium? On a not-moral note - this is just plain stupid. When I think of Lorenzo Medici Gavilar seems to me a pity excuse of a ruler.

@Yata I think you misunderstood - I wasn't questioning the moral side, only if Gavilar had succeded in unifying Alethkar with this methods. I wouldn't be perfectly fine, more able to accept him clawing his way to the throne, if he had left Alethkar as a stronger nation, but all in all what I see are quarreling Highprinces who not only fight against each other on the Shattered Plains but also left proxies behind in Alethkar to fight there as well. If the SF was just looking for someone who would reach unity with any means Gavilar hadn't passed the test, not becaue of morality but because he hadn't succeded in the goal.

I confess my problems with Gavilar as a Bondsmith. Yes, it seems like the SF looks for potential partners with the influence to force people into "unity", but then again - what about this middle-aged potter from the death rattle? Perhaps he was really mad, but if he was on the list, I can't see him with the same potential as Gavilar or Dalinar. As a second thought - did Gavilar really unite Alethkar? Did he build up a kingdom where the majority is loyal to any other goal than their personal advantages? I don't see this as "bringing people together instead of devide". What I see is Gavilar killing the opponants who were able to inspire loyality and replacing them with this backstabbing bastards we see in the books . After OB there is one thought I'm asking myself: How many potential Radiants did Gavilar kill on his way to power?

With the same base I see Kaladin sexually attracted to neither women nor men. Emotional connection - yes - but even for Sanderson standards there was never a sexual attraction to anyone in my opinion. So my conclusion - he is either demisexual if not asexual, what can nicely connect with his trust issues. If he needs an emotional connection first to feel sexual attraction he will possible end up with someone he trusts the most.

I think this is the problem. Soldiers - aren't they able to protect themselves? Don't they have an order for themselves - Stonewarden? The first Windrunner - Oath is to protect those who can't protect thenselves - imo this is mostly everyone except soldiers, they are trained in their behalf. If Kaladin chooses a side and soldiers of his side are attacking a Listener child - who is Kaladin supposed to save? I see the Windrunners not as the protectors of an army but of the collateral damage of war. And as someone else had said - can't remember who - as a Windrunner with his abilities he can perhaps really protect without killing - lash them away, clue them to the ground. He had saved many people without a blade, just with his special abilities.

The one saved by Elhokar wasn't Gavinor but this spren. It'll be the first "dead" spren who was revived. Rathalas was nearly empty when it was destroyed - the people were brought to safety in Dawn's Shadow - including the children of Tanalan jun. Oh and don't ask, please: Rial is the son of Sadeas from one of his encounters with one of the women from one of the conquered villages.

I would prefere Odium to escape his prison - a nice stop for Roshar without his influence, but I think we will believe he is gone for good. Why ? For me there is too many foreshading that Odium will try to team up with Bavadin, perhaps even to have a chance to get rid of the one Shard who was never supposed to be - Harmony. This can be the reason, why Mistborn Season 3 is sheduled between arc 1 and 2 - to get a good arc on Scadrial.

But a gardener is able of extreme violence - he poisons, burns, kills every plant or animal who tries to overpower the ones he cultivates. Even when it's sometimes a loosing battle. Personally I was a little bit surprised when she told Dalinar "everything must be cultivated". This isn't exactly the way a gardener thinks, but if she tries to, let's say, cultivate the Unmade, can this be the reason for Sja-Anats supposed change.

Like I wrote above - one little gesture would have been enough, Navani described as a little bit paler, quieter, but there is more. I would have prefered her being absent and not at the same time purring around Dalinar and making the wedding planer for Shallan and Adolin. It's not only what she didn't do, but how she was acting instead. Man, even Shallan's brothers seems to be more important for her....

@WhiteLeeopard Rationally I'm aware, emotionally I don't care. Even so - Gavinor is the only grandson and so the only one to carry on the Kholinline of herself and her late husband, the king. Jasnah - perhaps she will get a child, but at the moment Gavinor is the dynastic future. As royalty she should have cared. One little thing - burning prayers for her son in the background, a little glyph for her grandson - it doesn't have to be something so grant as for Dalinar - would have shown her personality as a feeling person, not as a royality.

With Szeth I start to complain when there won't be missing scenes in his book, same with Jasnah, Ash and Taln. My greatest problem was the aftermath of Kholinar - not so much Elhokar but Gavinor, not so much everyone but Navani. Shortly after Gavinor was back, all grandmothers I had known came into memory - every one of them you would have to physically restrain to hinder them to do something "stupid" like going to save the only grandson and showing the Fused the wrath of a grandmother. But Navani - all Dalinar and teaching to read and write and whatever. It was so distracting for me I developed a aversion against her - what I don't believe was the intention.

We seem to know one of the reasons the humans decided to break the bond, but what if the bonded spren had other reasons? The Radiants were also affected by the madness of Tanavast/Honor - is it possible this madness affected their spren in a more direct way, perhaps they even were also going mad?

Rena can also be the shortform for Renata meaning 'reborn'

Über die Sturmlicht - Archive wird vermutlich noch verhandelt, aber Piper legt momentan die anderen Titel neu auf: Februar - Elantris mit der Kurzgeschichte März - Kinder des Nebels Buch 1 Wax und Wayne 2 und 3 war von Beginn an Piper. Calamity kommt - endlich - wieder bei Heyne.

I think without Pattern Shallan would have been pregnant at the end of OB. And as a Lightweaver she has abilities I would have killed to get when my own children were young and hyperactive. Pattern will become the childsitter and will be on to the next round of adorable sentences.

@maxal Me too - I was convinced Toh will die - because of the Iri, because of what happened with Evi - but now I'm not sure if there really was an indication or if it was just because they reminded me of Vivenna and Parlin, partly because both pairs are on the naive side. Anything but thieves... Is Toh not also under guard of Alethi soldiers in Herdaz? If this is about the Iri then they are possibly more interesting than I thought. The other oddity for me was the long time to wait for the wedding - what was Evi waiting for? I remember not being sooo convinced about the reason she told Dalinar (I will really have to reread OB - badly)