Kardenal_13

Awesome, I thought pretty much the same thing. I was just reading this thread and everyone was acting like that subplot had reached it's endpoint., made me start to thinking I had missed something when I read the book.

I actually think there is some evidence that Kaladin is going to be Honor's champion, though it's more circumstantial than anything: 1. Kaladin is the first "Main Character" we see and the guy most of us associate with the "Hero" of the story (at least I do). Now as the books have advanced Kaladin has been losing this role but he has still retained that "Hero" quality, though now it's expressed by other characters and not just us. 2. During the story Shallan and other characters mention that there is something about Kaladin "The way he moves", etc. I, and some other people based on some comments I saw, got the feeling that Kaladin was being groomed for something, IMO probably Honor's champion. 3. This one is kinda subjective, but IMO Kaladin is currently the strongest 1v1 fighter on the Radiants Side. I also agree that Moash most likely is/will become Odium's Champion. I also think that the death rattle probably already happened, since it fits so well with the scene in WoR.

I gotta say I couldn't stop laughing when Past!Dalinar killed a man, cleaned the knife he killed him with, and the used eat to finally eat his steak.

I was thinking something similar to this, maybe the tenth order of Voidbinding is only usable by humans. I have basically no evidence for this besides the fact that we haven't seen the 10th order of Fused. I actually started thinking about it when I realized that Odium was going to "turn" Dalinar and use him as the leader for his forces, because why would he need a human champion when he has an army of Parshmen (besides the use of turning the leader of his opposition, taking away a Bondsmith, etc.). I also started to think that maybe Moash will eventually be what Dalinar was supposed to be.

So I've read most of the thread, just wanted to chime in, did anyone else the impression that Shallan is just lying to herself and that her indecision about Kal/Adolin is going to cause her major problems in the future? When I finished the book I didn't really see the love triangle being "resolved", so much as Kaladin saying he's out because of the marriage (which I think is exactly what he would do), Adolin thinking some other person Shallan pretends to be is in love with Kaladin, and Shallan in denial about her actually being Veil, Radiant, and "Shallan". Basically Kaladin is out, Adolin has been "tricked" into thinking that the triangle is gone, and Shallan is too blind to see that it's still going strong (at least for her).

I have two rankings, enjoyment on first read and enjoyment on current reads. First read is how much I enjoyed the book the first time I read it (obviously XD) and current reads is a mix of how much I enjoyed them on subsequent reads, which I would rather read atm, and which I think is a better book. First Read: WoK is the best because I read it at the right time in my life to really enjoy Kaladin's initial story, whereas now I find it almost impossible to read through part 1 of WoK. OB is somewhat similar in that I read it and WoK during moments of stress, which made both of them more enjoyable since they let me escape for a bit. OB comes out a bit behind because I've probably never been more stressed than the day I read WoK, so having something else to do that day was a godsend. WoK > OB > WoR Current Reads: I haven't read OB for a second time yet, so I'm hesitant to place it over WoR which I have re-read at least 5-10 times, and is possibly my favorite Cosmere book atm (not counting Emperor's Soul which my brain files under short story for some reason). As I mentioned above I can no longer read Part 1 of WoK without feeling terrible, so that takes away from it a bit, and OB is still in limbo. If there are more topics like this in the future OB will probably have a solidified place. WoR > OB > WoK

I gave it a 9/10, which will probably go up or down depending on how I feel during my second read. I actually really like Kaladin's "failure arc" in the book, I was hit really hard when he failed to say the Fourth Ideal and I actually saw it coming once I realized that this was a form of the Rule of Three. I wish I had more but I was always going to feel that way. As to the love triangle I see everyone talking about how it had an unsatisfying conclusion (which I agree happened, if this is the last of it is true), but as I read the book I got the impression that this is Shallan deluding herself into thinking that she is over Kaladin and completely on board with marrying Adolin. Kaladin decides to stop thinking about Shallan in a romantic way because of her marriage (which I think is very in character), but I think future books might have Shallan causing problems (mostly for herself) because she hasn't realized that she's still attracted to Kaladin (specifically her, bot "Veil"). I also enjoyed the book more because Dalinar is already adultish (It's implied he's a 18ish I think?) in his flashback chapters. In WoK and WoR I was always dreading the flashback chapters because they didn't interest me as much as the current day chapters, not just because they lacked action but because I didn't enjoy Kal and Shallan as children, but I found Dalinar to be a very likeable sociopath character, even if he wasn't a very good person, and a really nice contrast to the Dalinar we know now. I especially liked the reveal that he let the child live instead of killing him. The final battle was amazing IMO, I was smiling like an idiot the whole time. I'll need to read it again to give a better analysis since I read it at 3 in the morning, but I really liked it.

I took Hoid's statement to be more of a general warning, considering that anyone who claims to see the future is either lying, or being manipulated/influenced by a Shard. Of course in the book it works to help increase tension because we know Renarin can see the future, but I don't think Hoid is talking about a specific event in this case. On whether Hoid was warning Shallan away from him, with this particular statement at least. If I remember correctly Hoid can't see the future, he uses something else to know where he has to be, so I don't think it would apply to him. As to how Honor describes viewing the future and how Renarin sees it, these are my ideas (assuming they're connected): A. Everyone who views the future sees it like this, as different images fracturing in glass, with more fractures the farther you look. The better you are at looking at the future and interpreting the present the fewer fractures there are. OR B. Renarin is actually viewing the future through some Honor related investiture and not something Odium related. This is why he sees it the way Honor did (this is unlikely IMO after the Finale of OB).

That better?

Ok so I've been reading the threads that people are posting and I realized that I hadn't seen this anywhere so I might as well post it. Basically I got an idea in my head that what Moash did to Jerzrien byt killing him with that knife is basically what Dalinar did to Nergaoul (hope that's the right Unmade XD), by trapping him in a Gemstone. The Gemstone in the knife that Moash uses to kill Jezrien is a Sapphire, which is associated with Jez already, and when Jezrien when Jezrien stops screamign "It's taking me" the Gemstone starts to glow softly. My idea is that the Heralds can be trapped in gemstones same as the Unmade. Evidence I think is against for this theory: - Gemstone starts glowing when Jez dies - Jezrien starts scream "It's taking me", not "It's killing me", granted he was pretty insane by the end there. Against: - Ash says "My father is dead"; not that he's been captured or anything similar Welp, that's about it. Hope this wasn't already obvious to everyone or completely wrong XD. Some wild speculation with no proof at all is that the Fused didn't/couldn't trap Jezrien themselves is that they are basically the same as Jezrien is now, they're basically living inside the Gemstones of the Parshendi they possess (at least that's how I interpret it), and maybe they can't trap others in gemstones without getting caught themselves (or they at least fear this happening).

I believe that Kaladin's Fourth Ideal will be something regarding his being unable to save everyone, but I think there's a more important question. If I understood correctly, Teft is also a Windrunner now, but he spoke an Ideal we haven't read before: "I will protect those I hate, even if the one I hate most is myself." This Ideal is closest to Kaladin's third spoken Ideal, "I will protect those I hate, so long as it is right". Now assuming this is Teft's third Ideal, then that could mean that each Ideal a Radiant says is somewhat tailored to that specific Radiant, so the part after the comma is how the Ideal "I will protect those I hate," applies to each Radiant. Taking Teft vs Kaladin you have Teft who's Ideal also includes protecting/taking care of himself (at least I read it as such), while Kaladin's is more focused on recognizing that he has to protect everyone, even if he doesn't want to. The second part seems to add context/offer a solution to a problem that particular Radiant has when viewed through that Ideal. Of course this immediately runs into a problem since the second Ideal of the Windrunners didn't have this... tailoring to it. Right now I'm thinking it's something that applies from the third Ideal onward, like the Skybreakers pledging themselves to a code of their choosing, the Windrunners 3rd, 4th, and 5th Ideals tailor themselves to the Windrunner that is speaking them, adding information or conditions to that specific Ideal to help thar Windrunner in particular. Of course this based only on 2 line of text so it all be completely wrong. Any thoughts?

When Shallan told the story for the first time my first thought was Dayside/Darkside, but I discarded that theory by the end of the book since I couldn't find anything to back it up. Hoid did have that jar of invested sand, but other than that, meh. It could be, but I doubt it at the moment.

Really loved the book, one thing I haven't seen mentioned (and maybe I'm just imagining it) is how Dalinar resists Odium echos something he said when he was the Blackthorn. Someone accuses him of being a murderer and using god/the Almighty to justify those kills, and the Blackthorn says "Shut up, I earned those kills, and you will not take them from me". To me that sounds somewhat similar to what he told Odium, even if they're said for completely different reasons.

I always took that line to reference the fact that Honor created Humans on Roshar. Iirc Shards made humans on the planets they visited basing them on the humans of Yolen (I can't remember where I read this so if it's wrong please correct me).

Why would you break out of your clothes when you burn pewter? Stormlight intake: being scared by a movie and drawing some in, start glowing. Fifth Heightening: No more Booze/Drugs (good or bad depending on your POV). Depending on what "toxins" means probably no more anesthesia either. Elantrian: If you have bad handwriting you can't use magic. Soother/Rioter: No one ever trusts you again.

What would "normal" sized Tai-na eat anyways? I mean they're big enough to hold a tribe of people, and a whole ecosystem, and they have building sized eyes! So what would something that is (at least in my mind) at least small city sized eat? Could they just not eat and, I don't know take energy directly from the plants that grow on them? Sorry if there was a WoB that I missed, I checked Coppermind to make sure but I couldn't find what they eat. That being said, even if I want this to be true, Echo's comment about the crem kinda makes me think it's unlikely.

What I want to know is if the Thrill only affects Lighteyes, and if it does is that by design or because of something else?

I'm going with Roshar/Scadrial. I think Skybreaker and Mistborn, though I'd like to know more about what the Division can do, if I could somehow slice something in half just by touching it that would be very interesting.

Gotta say, I read all of these and my favorite are still the "Women can only do surgebinding naked" and "Magic is Sexist" XD

I'm tied between two. The first is Adolin's duel against four other Shardbearers. My favorite moment of it is when Kaladin says "Honor is dead", I got chills the first time I read it. The second was when Adolin killed Sadeas, I still remember cheering him on and then realizing how this is going to mess everything up XD.

I might be completely blanking on something obvious here but what do you mean by Odium being "broken"?

According to Coppermind, Dalinar was a character Sanderson first conceived when he was 15, and later he put him into Dragonsteel (the unpublished version), before finally finalizing his character in SLA. So maybe I'm reading this wrong, but wouldn't Dalinar be the first character he thought of who is in SLA, and not the character Sanderson first thought of when he conceived SLA? (Basically the opposite of what you type if I understood it correctly.)

I can't remember where I saw it, I think it was in a google docs of WoB, but isn't there a WoB that says that there are only 2 Shards on Scadrial (with Harmony counting as Ruin + Preservation)? Also the WoB you mentioned said that Trell is "of a Shard we know" which, at least to me, means that Trell isn't a Shardholder. That being said I think it would be awesome if Kelsier got a Shard.

I always thought that Elhokar was on his way to become a Radiant (and only with this post do I realize that no one else thought that). My reasons were kinda flat, basically the fact that he could see what I thought were spren, and that he could be considered "broken" by feeling that he is an inadequate king and successor to his father. This is a cool theory. That being said I think that Pattern could be considered twisted and inhuman, kinda like the drawing that Shallan made in WoK. Also I don't remember if I made this up in my head or not but wasn't there a line somewhere that suggested Cryptics and Honorsprens didn't get along?