dvoraen

Wouldn't that change for what Nale says to Szeth about restoration imply that Nale has the Truthwatcher or Edgedancer Honorblade? Peter, you got some explaining to do on why it changed from fabrial.

I think it's a spren, myself. Why? Both the fact that the keyhole is made of the same material as a Shardblade (which are spren) and the fact that it doesn't work if a dead spren Blade is inserted. Therefore, I think that the Oathgate spren bound to it communicates only and directly with a live spren via the Shardblade keyhole. Pattern himself states that in Shadesmar, spren communicate in a completely different way than they do with humans -- my personal bet there is via Investiture-waveforms, as we saw with Ruin and Vin after she became Preservation -- so it stands to reason that the Oathgate is a 'live' spren that can only communicate in this manner, which is why a dead/mindless spren doesn't work. It's kind of like a live spren is saying 'Unlock the Oathgate!' in a manner that can be understood by the Oathgate. In other words, Oathgates don't speak human. Only Nahel spren do.

Yes, the Knights are a construct, but at the same time those powers wouldn't fully develop (now) on account of the restrictions that were placed on the spren, in requiring their human to mentally develop along certain lines. In other words, to speak of one is to speak of the other on account of those now-required Words.

It very well could be. My thoughts on the matter are, after all, mostly born of speculation on the question 'Why would the Knights change'? I do think, however, that without a Bondsmith actively upholding his or her Ideals, even Windrunners can be... goaded into situations that cause conflict with their Ideals. I also think we've also seen possible encouragement from the Unmade on Kaladin too (I'm referring to p314 of the hardback, last page of Chapter 25), so that didn't help any, either. For an example of a situation that could goad him into fighting, Kaladin seeing Roshone again will likely be... a trial, especially if Roshone tries to use Kal's parents as leverage against him.

This I feel is partly corroborated in the epigraph for Chapter 41, and also why I claim the Radiant leadership was gone and/or murdered. Remove the leaders, with few people able to replace them -- I highly doubt Bondsmiths were common by general virtue of there being so few people who have the capability to be one -- and you have all the makings of degradation of what was once a cohesive whole. Without their "focus", they fell prey to simple human foible, until finally it built up to the point they simply 'gave up' on humankind, because humanity turned their backs on the Radiants first... so they did the same and forswore their First Ideal en masse. (I don't think I need to go all pedantic about how that happened, I think deliberately 'resigning' was enough to cause the Nahel bond to snap.) While we don't know exactly why the Windrunners + Stonewards suddenly decided to throw down their arms and abandon their charge, I contend it's because they found out they were duped into joining the fighting (war?) that was going on at the time.

I realize this is a bit non-sequitor, but who wants to double-down on the riots being a plan of the Diagram? (With Nergaoul implicitly helping via the Thrill.) More to the point, I don't see the palace being reduced to rubble, but for sure there'd be some destruction. Either way, it would take a while to clear what is likely a very large set of structures off the Kholinar Oathgate. What I really would like to know is if the riots are drawing any of the Unmade to Kholinar.

I got the impression that they tried to use the other nine at Urithiru and they didn't work, thus "locked". The question that's been baking my noodle is, will the Windrunner Honorblade be able to unlock them?

And quite possibly Rysn. Why? Look for those who survive when they should not. That pattern will be your clue. She fell how far, again?

I'm not trying to put words in others' mouths, but I think it's a combination of the epigraph describing Willshapers as having a love of adventure, and Eshonai fitting the description of that epigraph quite a bit (she loved exploration).

It was likely before Gavilar's assassination. The most probable timeframe was when Elhokar and Roshone were involved in that incident with Moash's grandparents, and Elhokar was still Crown Prince then.

I think this is easy to explain: The Diagram gives rather priviledged information about the Unmade (HMMMM!), though all we have as the readers is just the fragment about Moelach. Presumably, all six that we know of were discussed a little more in detail to Team Diagram. That said, I've gotten the impression that there is always a definitive "start" time for a Desolation, which is basically a "warmup" period before the fullscale fighting breaks out worldwide. On a timeline, it'd look something like this: Desolation ---- Heralds Depart -------------------------- Heralds + Unmade Return* ---- Desolation ---- Heralds Depart * We are here. Everstorm event likely signalled the green light for the main event.

I got the impression that was something specific to this previous Desolation: cutting off the Listeners from the Unmade via 'slaveform'. There was a remnant left, who are the Parshendi at Narak, but by and large they trumped the Unmade. The other major question I have is: are the Unmade bound or absent when it's not a Desolation? We know that Moelach's Death Rattles began around the time of Gavilar's expeditions (assuming Taravangian wasn't lying; no reason he would in that scenario) so we can infer that at the minimum Moelach and probably Nergaoul were either dormant, bound, and/or unable to 'touch' the planet and its inhabitants. Additionally, the woman Taffa in Dalinar's vision seemed to think that Midnight Essence attacks were part of a Desolation, so that would suggest that the rest of the Unmade are also bound by whatever restriction forbids them from going postal on Roshar, as we know Yelig-Nar can. In other words, I suspect that there is a way for the Heralds to defeat the Unmade and 'win' a Desolation, but we simply don't know what the victory condition(s) is/are. At the very least, we can assume that they have to render the Unmade banished or bound, and it's likely that the Dawnshards* factor in, here. We can also assume that an extinction of the Listener race was and isn't one of the conditions, either, or else that could very well have happened by now after the human Surgebinding emerged; this is why I'm focusing so much on the Unmade. * I say this partly because of the Poem of Ista reference to them, in addition to the fact that it seems like the Unmade are most active or on the offensive during the night. This last has been hinted here and there, and also corroborates the idea that the Dawnshards were made to fight the Unmade.

RE: bolded. Plus, the possibility that during the Heraldic Epochs, a Desolation could be as little as three-fiddy years between the end of the last and start of the next. I'm referencing when Dalinar asks the Radiant woman the year and she says "Eighth Epoch, 337" if memory serves. I took that to mean "337 years after the Heralds departed upon completion of the 8th known Desolation" (after the Silver Kingdoms were established).

Smurf covered my main response, but I think we can guess as to why Jasnah feels culpable regarding Gavilar's death: their discussions about the Parshendi expeditions which Jasnah states were one of the few times she felt she connected with her father. I think those discussions, implying she did research for her father, are how she got it into her head she was responsible for his death. This is on top of what Ivory could have told her after she started exploring her Nahel bond with him, to the point she realized that some of what she was researching for her father (about the Unmade, possibly?*) are what led her to believe she was responsible for it happening. Another thing: I think Jasnah had her father's confidence with regards to his visions. I'd very much like to see a private conversation between Jasnah and Dalinar on that subject. * I bring up the Unmade because some of the epigraphs in The Way of Kings are likely her notes collected over the years. The Unmade seem a bit of a non-sequitor for her to be pursuing from what we've seen of folklore -- we don't know if the Unmade are directly linked to Voidbringers in folklore and legends, though Shallan's flashback with the parrot strongly suggests 'yes' -- yet we have an epigraph explicitly discussing Yelig-Nar that Jasnah had unearthed, albeit she states her doubts of the Unmade's existence on account of them being a "product of folklore". (This skepticism of Jasnah is also why I wonder if the Unmade are absent/dormant outside of Desolations, or surely there'd be more reports of their influence on the world that Jasnah would likely have noticed.)

Yes, but only if it was Honor. Personal reasons.

Well at least I'm not alone in thinking this.

The real question I have about the Heralds, is if they all originated from the same kingdom, one that I presume was ruled by Jezrien and Shalash, and the other Heralds had duties similar to their Heraldic titles. (Taln was the head of that kingdom's armies, Nale was the Chief Justiciar equivalent, and so forth.)

*sneaks in* I'll put 50 (emerald broams) on 'the Heralds are now susceptible to the Unmade's powers' please. (I'm implying they were previously protected from the Unmade's influence, but now they're able to be... touched? by them, not to mention they probably draw the eyes of the Unmade wherever they go.) *sneaks out*

Personally, I think it's a combination of what the two of you (Moogle & Shlee) said: - It's a partial bond with a dead Nahel spren; partial, in that the one who binds a given 'dead' Shardblade obviously isn't able to do more with the spren in question aside from summon as a blade. In other words, a given individual can only bond to the Blade aspect (Identity?) of a dead spren; the spren isn't alive to allow for the use of Surgebinding, communication with an Oathgate mechanism, etc. - Likewise, we have the Honorblades, which can be bonded to for Surgebinding (no checks required as with a live spren), however there are obvious differences as noted, in that the Honorblade doesn't "revive" its ornamentation, and the Honorblade is left behind even if its owner perishes (as shown by Szeth and also heavily implied by Szeth's POVs about it). So again, it's not a complete bond with an Honorblade in that the person who bonds to it either can't fully do so, or there's a missing aspect on the Blade end. I suspect in this case it's because a person who would fully use an Honorblade's capabilities has to say Words that are specific to the Heralds and their 'divine duties' (a pact or bond with Honor, perhaps?), if not specific to each Blade itself. Every Radiant Order has specific Words, and the Nahel spren emulated the Honorblade in question, so it's possible that an Honorblade's full powers require a specific Oath/Words, unique to each Blade. This, again, takes me back to Gavilar's dying words.

I'm going to randomly chime in, because I've been thinking about this for a bit now, and two factoids from the series just suddenly jumped out at me.

I'm thinking it's more likely that, if "Taln" is the real one, someone took advantage of him in getting the Honorblade away. I have another possibility, but it's really kind of scary to consider. (The possibility that he had to give away his blade to the enemy to stop those millenia of torment.)

I'd peg Soulcasting / Transformation as the major power of book 3, in addition to the Bondsmith abilities. While we have some idea on how Soulcasting works, we really don't know the intricacies and the limitations of it. I'm basically getting at Pattern teaching it to Shallan. Also, I think we'll learn a little more of the Void powers (what the Unmade can do), but that's off topic.

I think Elhokar needs one or two things, which are both possible in the third book: - The realization that Pattern resembles what he's been seeing lurking nearby, and that Pattern represents Honor (and/or Cultivation), not Odium. Elhokar had just arrived at Urithiru, and likely has not had direct contact with Shallan since her public reveal as a Surgebinder. Adolin has possibly had direct contact with Pattern, however. - His sister's knowledge, experience, and research. I'm willing to put money down that Jasnah can't progress as a Radiant without being more willing to work with others, something she apparently has a tendency to not do. She's secretive, reluctant to take on wards, and 'plays with danger', as her mother put it. Shallan was probably Jasnah's catalyst for change in this matter, which is a part of her development (understanding people, herself most of all).

While I think there's a grain of truth in this, I do think Honor's vision really meant the Radiants and humanity. They wouldn't be able to hold out during the Desolation if they were fractured and not putting up a united front against the enemy. That said, "Act with honor, and honor will aid you," most likely had a double meaning as far as advice. I do think that Honor will be un-Splintered as a result of the storyline, however.

If I had to guess, "something more" would be basically 'cloning' the Nahel bond that the spren/Blade in question had, with Adolin on the receiving end. In other words, figure a way to place a bond between a human that fits into the torn-away cognition of the spren in question. Like an organ transplant, except for think parts, and this includes the donor and recipient being compatible. It wouldn't do much good to emulate a Nahel bond to revive a spren if it gets frazzled almost immediately because the human doesn't operate the right way, I would say. Any wagers on Dalinar figuring this out? At the very least, if someone did, I imagine it would be a massive shift in the Desolation/war effort on humanity's side should the dead spren be able to be revived.