dvoraen

This assumes Shardplate doesn't have special properties to allow easy maneuvering through water (it hasn't come up, to my knowledge). After all, it assists somewhat in preventing blindness from stormform lightning that isn't directly observable, and can presumably absorb that released energy. That said, it could be simply a use of Abrasion as you said.

I highly doubt Sadeas's wife will be passive, or pacifistic, on the matter. She's hypothetically made a number of waves behind the scenes without it pointing to her (and was likely the one that guided the alterations to Dalinar's visions with her husband helping). She's probably in a position where she has considerable clout with the ladies of the court.

I didn't want to use phonaesthetics as my primary argument, but I also think calling the Unmade "Los Deshechos" sounds feo to my ears. Nothing's coming to mind yet as a real suggestion for a proper noun via destruir, though. The closest idea I've had to one is a vague "bastardization" of destruir much as "hay" derives from haber. "Destruyos" and "Destruidos" sounds bleh to me also, to say nothing of the implication in the latter (that they destroyed themselves or were destroyed and no longer exist). EDIT: After thinking about it a little, and browsing a dictionary, I would lean towards "Los Devastadores". Or, if you want to go crazy, "Los Destruyadores," which isn't a real word in Spanish I believe. I don't like "Los Destructores" for some reason; I kept thinking some combination of destruir and words such as matador and conquistador (hence the suffix spliced onto the not-quite present participle of destruir: destruyendo).

With Elhokar, I really think it's hard to say, particularly since a trial would implicitly suggest the other highprinces become involved, and some of them would undoubtedly want to undermine Dalinar by pressuring Elhokar into a conviction. This also doesn't account for Team Diagram -- I keep wanting to call its members Architects -- getting involved in manipulating events too.

Personally, since the English is clear that the Unmade are variants of destructive forces, I'd lean towards some creative licensing with "destruir". It'd be a kind of catch-all between the (arguably more literal) translations of "unmade" in Spanish, while conveying the intention that the Unmade are nasty critters that want to mess things up.

Based on the hints we've gotten -- that they're Splinters of Odium, and Rlain's comments about them -- I think the safer choice for translating "Unmade" is in the sense of "destruir", or maybe "Los Deshechos"? This is strictly my opinion, though. As you said, it really depends on whether Peter or Brandon will provide tidbits and context on how the Unmade came into existence, really, whether it was because Honor basically forced it to happen (causing Odium to be Invested in Roshar via the Unmade) or because Odium had to effectively create them in order to later be unopposed to leaving Roshar.

There is one other point about Adolin: - We're assuming he isn't discovered, tried, and convicted for a highprince's murder. I can't imagine that kind of incident carrying a small penalty. He could very well be executed.

I really wish someone would ask Brandon if the Unmade have six*, or hundreds to their numbers. The hints we've gotten are leaning towards the latter, but people in-world could be misapplying the term Unmade for Voidspren -- since the Unmade are officially Splinters of Odium... as spren are Splinters of their Shard(s), iirc-- so... WHICH IS IT? Point being: if there are more than six 'major' Unmade, meaning there are 'minor' Unmade, I'll buy that one of those latter is in the sphere. * Six Unmade + Ten Heralds = 16!

I think it's twofold, where they (Syl and Pattern) go: 1) They're probably still attracted to concepts related to what kind of spren they are in the first place. Syl probably gets "pings" from Dalinar regularly, I'm willing to wager, which makes her flit off to where he is if he's nearby. 2) In Pattern's case, his motivations are explicitly clear, I thought: learning about humans since the older, 'dead' Cryptics had apparently not passed on their knowledge and experiences that they acquired due to the Nahel bond. For Syl, she could be rather whimsical by virtue of being cousin to windspren, which are... flighty I want to say? She has said she plays with them at times, if I recall.

I always wondered why we don't call Cryptics 'facadespren', since they seem attracted to falsity in presentation; specifically, they are attracted to people who present a mask to the world and deny the truth even to themselves. They like lies, sure, but they seem to focus more on the illusory nature of the truth, which leans more towards the definition of facade, the way I see it.

Nope. I can see why you say that, but Szeth was not who I had in mind.

My mind is blown, but this thread only shows that, hypothetically, a Nicrosil Ferring is serious business just waiting to happen.

"They cursed me for what I am, and will curse me for what I do. When will I see their light? When will I be free?"

She said that the Knights "changed". That's not a comment I take lightly when it comes from an honorspren. A mental or emotional change could easily distort what they were doing, and how. The general idea might be the same, but the intent could make all the difference. Hypothetically speaking, since it didn't exactly happen this way in the book, Kaladin could say he was 'protecting' Alethkar by allowing Elhokar to die, but it hardly qualifies as fulfilling his duties of sticking up for the defenseless and doing the honorable thing by trying to correct the real problem, which is Elhokar's lack of leadership skills. He'd be protecting both Alethkar AND Elhokar there.

One of the things that I'm thinking, because everyone keeps focusing on THEY KILLED THEIR SPREN BUDDIES: remember how Syl's behavior seemed to degenerate rapidly towards near mindlessness? I am willing to wager that almost every Order, by the time they renounced their Oaths, had slowly degenerated in their duties towards this point. Syl more than hinted that this happened, I think, and between her comment and how she was slipping away are more than enough to suggest that the Nahel bonds were in disarray before everyone threw in the towel.

As far as Renarin goes, he could -- and I'm strictly speculating here -- have Cognitive damage on account of his autism. That could be all that's needed for him to end up a Truthwatcher. They were called esoteric, after all. And yes, Kaladin did say that term is used for "we don't know what it is", surgically speaking. I suspect that Renarin's epilepsy was cured due to his interpretation of his Ideal Self (see what I did there?) and how he's aspired to be a warrior like his father and brother. It certainly seemed hinted at when he announced himself as a Truthwatcher.

See, I interpretted Lift's Second Ideal a bit more liberally, as something like this: I will look out for those in need and unnoticed. It's kind of hard for me to quantify what exactly is on my mind, but the question that led to her Oath is pretty telling: "Who would cry for him?" Edgedancers are undoubtedly the Good Samaritan Order of Radiants; those who stick up for the little guy, or those who are suffering, down on their luck, or in general cast aside by everyone because they were "beneath notice" ('forgotten'). It doesn't seem like an accident that they have Progression as a Surge, not by any stretch of the imagination. They can use it for healing and for accelerating plant growth for providing food to the hungry. With respect to Adolin, he didn't strike me as dismissive of people (for example, the prostitute in the Way of Kings that he sticks up for), so I think it's possible he has Edgedancer qualities. I think his general temperament leans more towards what we know of Stonewards, though (reliably stubborn; unwilling to stand down), but again I wouldn't be surprised if his (apparently Edgedancer) Shardblade pulled him to the same Order as Lift. Plus, Adolin has somewhat begun to mirror his father in possibly attracting a Nahel spren. Why do I say this? His later reactions to the Thrill, where it was starting to induce nausea.

RE: Vin's earring. I've been wondering if select Spikes (like Vin's earring) had maintained a charge because Ruin was maintaining the Investment in the metal.

I'm just going to say it here: since when is murdering someone, even a slimeball, ever the right thing? There IS a difference between the honorable choice and the greater good. This one veers strongly towards the latter. It's the same reasoning as the Diagram uses for why its atrocities are "necessary", but that by no means makes those choices (ordering assassinations, destabilizing societies) the right ones. They're being done to, hopefully, improve the situation in the long run, but the means used to do so are in no way shape or form right.

D: I'm at work during this, so who do I need to bribe to ask a few, um, inquiries? >.> (Editting them in; personal comments in italics.) Does a Lightweaver's mnemonic abilities require Investiture in order to function fully? (I'm trying to pin down if it's actually sourced from Cultivation, because it strikes me as a "talent" they have.) Is the number of Unmade six, or hundreds? Does folklore confuse Voidspren as part of the Unmade, or are spren and (human?) souls enslaved by them and considered "the eyes of the Unmade"? (This is mostly me trying to reconcile what feels like conflicting information. If the Unmade are on a similar level to the Stormfather, then six is QUITE ENOUGH to be in existence, yet what animates a thunderclast unless it's an enslaved spren or soul? Reading between the lines, there've been plenty of suggestions that the Unmade harvest and/or corrupt souls.) Hoid has more than implied to Dalinar that he's trying to avoid Odium's notice. Does this include drawing the eyes of the Unmade upon him? In other words, is Hoid trying to avoid direct contact with anything related to Odium while nudging the developing Surgebinders? Have some of his absences been due to this reason (the Unmade potentially noticing him)? If Hoid were present when Taravangian was writing the Diagram, would he have immediately understood both the writing and/or what Taravangian was speaking aloud? Has the Stormfather ever suffered a broken Nahel bond? Does a cadmium savant have heightened or slowed aging? Same question for bendalloy savants. Hypothetically, can a cadmium Misting be a 'human time capsule' and burn sufficient cadmium that they could pass through hundreds of years in a (relative to him/her) short period of time? Would this have long term or negative side effect on their body, not including the likelihood to end up a cadmium savant? Is Harmony capable of directly Investing metal into a Hemalurgic spike? If so, does this actively consume some of Ruin's power (is not returned to Harmony), and does a spike Invested this way still leak Hemalurgic charge when outside a recipient? (I'm basically wondering if Harmony, on account of having Ruin and Preservation's power, can create a Hemalurgic spike from scratch, no victim(s) needed from whom to steal the ability.) Is the holder of a Shard able to change the rules for how manifestations of Investiture that source from their Shard operate? For example, denying the ability to 'flare' metals (setting an upper limit for how much a metal can be burned in one go, ignoring the effects of duralumin and such). Are aluminum savants more resistant to forms of Investiture? Do they still possess the same amount of Innate Investiture despite how much aluminum has been burned? Are gold savants easily able to become fully developed Lightweavers, assuming they were able to enter into the requisite Nahel bond? Are spren conceived in the Spiritual Realm but are "born" in the Cognitive? Is Cultivation in hiding? Has Szeth had contact with "Taln" in his past?

Yes, but what he did to Sadeas was by no means the "right" thing. It was cold-blooded murder, something that even Kaladin avoided in the end, though he was sorely tempted with Amaram. I think we'll find that Adolin leans more towards Stoneward or Releaser, if he ends up a Radiant, but that's strictly a guess. The alternative, Edgedancer, would be if he is actually somehow forming a bond with his Shardblade.

On the subject of Kaladin's squires versus natural talent, I think it's twofold: - The affinity for squires is due to the (much higher) presence of Honor in honorspren. - The affinity for storms (and seeming 'precognitive fighting' talent while in the dueling arena) is due to the presence of Cultivation in honorspren, as they're "cousins" to windspren. I'm not sure if I'm trying to insinuate that we've seen some of Cultivation's magic being used by our nascent Radiants, where the Nahel bond provides a separate, tertiary ability strictly related to Honor, but given that we've supposedly seen Cultivation's magic, who's to say that active uses of Stormlight hasn't been powering more than Surgebinding right in front of our faces? In other words, I'm wondering if Kaladin's belief he could close his eyes and continue fighting was more an aspect of Cultivation's magic, than strictly his use of Stormlight. A bit of a non-sequitor, but... What I'd really like someone to ask Brandon: If Shallan had only a single, freshly charge sphered with her and took a lot of Memories over the course of a day, would that sphere's level of Stormlight be notably less?

They're made of the same metal that Honor's godmetal would be on Scadrial! In other words, a Physical aspect of Honor, much as atium is a Physical aspect of Ruin, lerasium is one of Preservation's, and so forth. I'm being serious, here. Typically, spren are Cognitive beings, but* based on the epigraphs in the in-world Words of Radiance and comments from Syl and Pattern, Nahel spren manifest more strongly in the Physical Realm as the bond/Words progress, which leads to them becoming able to take on Shardblade/Physical form at their bound human's behest. Based on that, and since Nahel spren are fragments of the power of Honor (and/or Cultivation), it makes sense that their Shardblade form is therefore their actual Physical form. Thus, they're made of godmetal. So, the Oathgates are formed from a godmetal. I still assert that the Oathgates are actually a spren, though, considering that they're fabrials, which by definition seem to require a spren's involvement and/or enslavement. * (If we assume the epigraphs are all actually factual, and not based on hearsay.)

I think Skybreakers have Cognitive if not Spiritual sight, which they get from their (high)spren emulating what Nale can do. (Which is that he seems extremely discerning when it concerns people who can Invest.) The standard use for this sight is that they can "read" people to see whether or not they are, say, trying to hide something. A kind of left-brained empath, if you will.

Sure, but why change the wording from fabrial when we (as readers) already know, and can infer that Regrowth fabrials exist? Saying 'the right Surgebinding' would suggest that the method Nale used was the actual power (presumably via an Honorblade) rather than what he tucked away. While there are fabrials that, strictly speaking, can duplicate Surgebinding, the change doesn't make it clear what the source of this particular use Surgebinding was, and arguably obfuscates matters more. I just don't see the point of the change when the previous text was rather clear about how Szeth was healed, I guess.