Kasimir

I said what I said.

Nice assumption imma not die I'm referring to the number of times Aet/Aeo have cited something someone in <Spark, Weaver, RBM> have done as evidence of no agenda, largely on the lines they're being upfront in thread/out of their depth in an open way. I don't disagree this could be the case but my mind is also shaped a lot by Szeth's QF and the way everyone cleared Insanity real quick. Reading new players is always especially a minefield. Purity reads more or less boils down to "this is too pure, surely not Evil." Ahhhh two minutes. What else did I wanna say my brain's hanging. Stick and I have argued about the utility of purity reads, which is odd as I'm a tad more pro-purity reads than I come across, but the volume worries me and I'm fundamentally more about vote analysis at heart I suppose. I felt you were findable via vote analysis and indeed how I got there in the LG once I discarded everything else. Also where I play meta-less with Drake offsite.

I thought you were referring to shooting returnees or new players, yeah. These I'd call more conventions than norms. I don't super feel the Archer vote (the fit with a Kidpen-killing team doesn't make sense here), but I'm also blessed with a migraine from trying to get more sleep so I'm just gonna stare quietly at the thread. I'll add there's only so much credit I'm willing to extend Cash on the basis of a bold-for-an-Elim proposal. Something about that performative vote feels like an Elim fiddling when Rome burns, and if the top two trains (Archer, Weaver) are theorised V/V, Cash is one of the places I'd look.

Does mean that Cash is acknowledging making a fairly useless vote. I can be ok with it depending on the context, but pokevoting on C2 in the middle of an ongoing train conflict is ??? Aeo's history of consistent overreaction to votes and poisoning the well by emotionally appealing regardless of alignment means the most charitable thing I can do here is to ignore that entirely. If Archer flips Village, are you going to re-evaluate the at least three to four purity reads you've ascribed at this juncture? Surprised Aeo "I have played a gazillion games" is explicitly ok with purity reads given the entirely opposite effect they have on Stick. I don't compromise with betraying moral norms. Other norms, depends. Not worth setting community values on fire to win one (1) game. Also why I detest players who are willing to consciously poison the well and AtE to stay alive (see: my problems with the entire AtE discourse, especially Illwei's use of it.) Gonna try to Tallybot before I make up my mind on how I feel and if I wanna move trains. My instinct is that there are too many purity reads flying around rn and I'm unsure if we're just not compensating well for the high new % in this game (therefore unconventional.) EDITED TO ADD: Ok good Cash is still here @Cash67 hey I would like you, even if not voting in 'em, to gimme your views real quick on the Archer train, RBM, or the sea of purity reads that have been put out so far. Up for it? You're on Spark so clearly you disagree with that one.

In what way? EDIT: It's three hours to rollover. What's that gonna do? You expect to both be online? Drake specifically objects to the idea you need a veteran on a team. It's why I haven't been overly letting it influence my kill analysis.

My point isn't the presumption the kill moved. It's the presumption it was on Raven, which is incredibly specific as a call to make and no one batted an eye.

EDIT 2: Will probably go back to nap a bit since the husky drama is settled. I am still looking at <RBM, TUA, Weaver>, predominantly TUA. TUA is largely for EoD lurking coupled with a disconnect from events (needed to be @) and the hypothesis the Kidpen kill was put in late. Theoretically the kill could be put earlier but I feel that since Aet, Spark, Wierdo, Cash, and a whole bunch of people were online subsequently, they should have noticed Kidpen train taking off. Aeo made a post I'm too tired to find that stated the kill moved from Raven to Kidpen and I'm not sure why this has been accepted at face value because why should anyone know anything about where the kill was, only where it ended up? I'm curious about the lack of advice from RBM's teammates, but that really is a team comp issue as well so I don't know how confident I feel here. The Aeo interaction raises a few question marks but fails to tick a few other key boxes. I'll puzzle through the rest on a bit more sleep.

TUA went for me C2 or C3 (can't remember exact cycle) of LG99 and hit TJ N1. TJ was basically somewhat peripheral and was one of two Aeo voters so IMO this is why I've stated I would not rule him out of a Kidpen kill. The team included Aet and RBM. Gonna just post this because I'm still sleepy and mobile sometimes messes with me. EDIT: The point here IMO is that it shows that even when calling the kill, TUA doesn't always open up with maximum aggression.

I'll like you to think about the fact I just woke up and the time gap between my posts and stop @ing me while I'm trying to catch up with the thread because the last I logged off, no one was voting you so why are you once again overreacting to whatever is going on?

Wtaf did I wake up to

Best of worst options from my POV. On my re-read, felt RBM was who I wanted to push but pretty much all the NAs went to bed. Then Kidpen showed up around the point I'd begun to rethink and figure Kidpen was Village (around half an hour to EoD) so that gave us two votes - since I felt Cash looked Village enough I didn't wanna D1 him, the main option was Raven, Spark, or Wierdo. (If we made our own train, it would've gone to a dice roll, which meant endangerment of one of my V leans so not a train I was cool with.) Nothing about Spark's C1 especially pinged me, and while I didn't like Wierdo's vote, I also kind of felt undecided given later Wierdo response to you, so I went for Raven as the CW I could most live with ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ By the time TUA re-showed up (he showed up at least twice but did not respond and needed a ping the last time) and it was clear we had the numbers for a new train, it was last two to five minutes of the cycle and Kidpen wasn't down for another pivot at last minute and if we didn't pivot together, it was pointless, so I called it a day and hoped for the best. Edited to add: Dude, only I, TUA, and Kidpen were on at EoD, unless an Elim was browsing offline, and even then, they'd probably have to submit the kill via GM PM. I know this because I kept trying to hunt for numbers for a pivot so I was paying close attention to if there was anyone in the thread I could @ and ask them if they were willing to pivot. If you're theorising an EoD Elim, then it basically has to be in <TUA, me.> Edited to add: Would almost argue Kidpen's suspicion of Bee seems unlikely - Kidpen was resistant to swapping to Bee, and in a world where V!Kidpen susses Bee, as compared to no real Raven read, he should've been pretty much 'lesgo' on Bee.

I go back and forth. Agree with Aet that I do like Weaver pushing back against Aet when I re-read that post. At the same time, I feel Weaver initially had an opportunistic vote on Kidpen before moving off and onto Aet. I feel it's a strangely/fairly decisive vote for a player who is verbally hedgy/reluctant to ascribe reads: Part of it is also just being at a loss. I could see joining Archer on TUA but I firmly believe we're at the start of the cycle (theoretically, as the NAs begin to wake up) and it would be extremely destructive for me to just vote TUA instead of opening more trains, voicing suspicions, and seeing what comes out of it. I noted the Kidpen kill is a little weird and Weaver, Spark, Cash, TUA are potentially some of the players I could see going for such a kill. tldr; I'm voting for someone I feel eh about and who could've made the Kidpen kill.

Weaver???

Oh yeah, what motivated your Spark vote? I asked you about your switch as you said this and moved from voting Raven to Spark, and I'm trying to understand your thought process:

Ignore the bit about forcing the Elims to choose between losing tempo or shutting down Village comms. They don't get a choice about the matter, the Raven message network will exist regardless of their feelings on the issue!

Belay that: I'm extra-cool with the High Priest having an indestructable line of comms if Village!

Gonna note that it's especially advisable for a High Priest to do so. Since Raven has flipped Village, he's basically cleared, so he can run interference for you. I am not fully sure if he can be killed again but I'm cool with forcing the Elims to choose between wasting tempo or allowing Raven to set up a line of comms from the High Priest to the thread.

Yes, and what's wrong with that? I ignored my sense that your play was different in favour of the lack of protective voting in the LG - as such, I'm more inclined to respect that read this time around. You are suspicious of Archer for...? 'Cause I'm not saying a particular thing about Archer at present. I'm trying to understand if he meant he retracted from you since he felt you were just leaving, or not.

Didn't you say you were discounting that because you felt Bee was just leaving?

Shovel shuffle Day One Voting: [RAW] I'd normally accompany this with close-reading of posts but I've theoretically already done this, so I'm gonna try short-cutting this process using Tallybot to retrieve the vote steps to look at. [BROKEN DOWN] Summary: -Wierdo and Cash not likely E/E (cross-voting, stable trains.) -Likely at most two E in <Spark, Kidpen, Wierdo, Cash> set due to stability and shifts. -Everyone except Spark voted, which indivates our Elims are on multiple trains. -If the shot on Kidpen came late, the likely suspect is TUA. If the shot on Kidpen was called early, it was likely called any point from the beginning of the cycle to RBM voting for Spark as the cut-off. This may indicate the Elims just checked out after that. -NK fails if it hits the exe victim on D1, so there's further incentive to deconflict. -I do not believe a veteran made the shot. This is largely because it's considered poor etiquette to shoot a returning player (or new player) on their first game. I...do not think Archer made that shot because he would have been aware of this: I can't say for sure TUA would not make the shot as TUA sometimes is /shrug about it. I think a Kidpen shot could be within TUA parameters though I'd be surprised TUA didn't go for Aet. (He didn't C1 me the last time.) Aeo is inconsistent. I think anyone else could very well make that shot. -However, the choice of target is not consistent with a raw new player. This leads me to consider a more aggregated profile, including Weaver, Cash, TUA, Aeo. -Where's Ash when you need him to NKA Edited to add: Your disengagement reminds me more of the LG than the QF. I felt you seemed more interested in solving in QF70.

Mind elaborating?

Think he did actually. Here:

Kidpen feels like the kind of shot we can get timing off. I was pushing for Kidpen in late cycle and at the two-vote point, Kidpen came into contention. Likely indicative Kidpen was either marked for death prior to this, or during the end switch. Noting that the killer here didn't consider this was Kidpen's returnee game. Accidents do happen (hi JNV) but it makes me feel Archer is potentially less likely to have held the knife. Similar sentiments for TUA but weaker. Unclear about how much Aeo cares about this. This isn't really helpful as the teams would be high on new players regardless and less familiar with this form of etiquette, but worth highlighting. Edited to add: I'll go ahead and vote with my heart first: Bee. If I fill in some early credences... Bah. I'll come back later and do full vote analysis. I don't feel this slice alone is helpful because we had stable trains for a decent chunk of the cycle, so have to examine each slice from the start. Need some caffeine.

E/E how? Hmmm. Okay yeah I don't trust getting this done in one minute sigh.

Edited to add: Wrt Raven there's something V!Raven does I haven't yet seen, but that being said I'll willingly acknowledge it's honestly a 'eh we lack numbers' kind of place therefore best of remaining trains deal in my head.