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Kasimir

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  1. Kasimir
    Got ninjaed by Turtle so I have to post this separately. I'll be mad if this borks my formatting. Like sure, you know what, I'll spell it out, Illwei and Stick do me a favour and just don't read this until you're done with the thread:
  2. Kasimir
    Would say soft assumption. Very likely because the Shaman plays an important balancing role in this ruleset. Not completely impossible but I would be shocked Pikachu if the Shaman didn't exist. There's...more that can be said on the Shaman but I hesitate about whether to do so so I'm just gonna not. Sure, but my sus and gut of you isn't based on you trying to go for me D1 or not - I do feel your mention of negative gut on me is performative, precisely because it was brought up as a reason to be sus of you in a previous game, but if my sus of you were based on that, it'd obviously be undermined. But it's not. It's based on something else. Part of me feels like you're being disingenuous here to insist that my sus of you is based purely off your sus of me in order to call it a retaliation vote, since I very obviously voted you and stayed on you before that. Part of me is sympathetic because I haven't actually spelled out my reasons so where else can you go. As you point out, you're not actually trying to either, so you don't really get to use it as a point in defense. I will note I was correct about being suspicious of you in LG90 and QF62, so we could go back and forth about it being cherry-picking but I don't care to. The ultimate point of this game is that my job is to sus the people I sus, you do what you feel is right based off your thoughts and your alignment, and in general, ideally, the noise and the discussion benefits the Village as a whole because the Village matters more than either of us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If this were a game with PMs, ordinarily this would be the point I just PMed others to get a better barometer on whether I'm jumping at shadows or not. Unfortunately there aren't any so I just have to make do. Preach.
  3. Kasimir
    The what. Care to say more about that? Edited to add: I forgive you for reading my private mail with Silho!
  4. Kasimir
    @Matrim's Dice Like. I will fully acknowledge I am keeping part of my cards close to my hand because I wanna see what any/everyone else has to say before jumping in. I'm @ ing Stick and Illwei specifically because they both apparently entertained E!Mat thoughts really fast off the bat the last time and I want to know if the same thing is pinging them or not. Other than that, I'm definitely happy to hear from anyone else. Part of this is the awareness it's very early D1, which is tough to get strong and accurate reads on, and I do tunnel, so it's important for me to get a sanity check. And the usual 'don't bias the people you want to get answers from' deal. And I should probably RP at some point shouldn't I. Does being Elim count? :eyes: Mm. I haven't been forthcoming with my reasons at any rate. What do you expect would be suspicious? Sorry, that's weak. E!me just kills you N1 or N2, maybe N3 tops. I still haven't gotten MLed yet, and I'm annoying as all hell to bring down in the thread. Try again
  5. Kasimir
    See, my gut thinks this is E!Mat specifically trying to address the "he's not paranoid enough!" complaints from LG90, so all I can do is follow my gut @_Stick_ So for all I know, you could be Evil too, but I'm curious if you're getting that vibe off him because you did the last time. What the hell, let's do this. Candy and teddy bears and all that. @Illwei Yes yes I know, we don't work well together, but your Mat read?
  6. Kasimir
    No, not really, go ahead then, vote me I could always use another C1 holiday in the dead doc! With quokkas!
  7. Kasimir
    And sometimes we are correct to do so! More seriously, it is and that's why I'm torn. On the one hand, I do genuinely think you're sus, for all I'm cracking jokes about staying on you until your birthday actually comes. On the other hand, I do agree it's a typical D1 vote and I don't disagree with you casting it, for the usual D1 reasons, and the fact I think early to mid D1 vote diversity is a good thing. I am also not currently feeling E!Mat as strongly as I felt it on previous occasions, so I am thinking more carefully about my position.
  8. Kasimir
    Yeah, but it's D1 innit though? No one is proposing discounting every interaction across the entire game. But without a good baseline D1, I do feel it's sort of overanchoring. It's slightly weirding me out you're going there. Yeah but bro, you're the one opening the coaching talk here And just that I feel that coaching, and the way I was pushing it in LG90, only really shows up in a specific context. And given coaching was kind of exploited by your teammate in LG90 and in an odd way, I'm not really sure that's the best place to be going To be very brief, I will say the coaching concerns in AG2 weren't about specific posts in isolation. They were about the fact that Mark (yes, you played with him in MR60, yes I'm aging myself again by referencing his first game) came in very strongly as a new player and making typical new player posts and reads, but very occasionally (and much more openly after a number of us were dead) started to channel different attitudes in his posting and his view of the game that were dissonant with his earlier ones and I think in his PMs with El and me that began to seem as though either: A. he was playing up inexperience, and B. he was receiving coaching from teammates, which explained the discrepancy. Both of which didn't ring right in the context of the game. The inconsistency was the issue. I don't believe you can establish it off a single datapoint, and even what I tried with Bookwyrm was trying to work off a profile. I don't think you can do it off their very first post because you just have no baseline for that player anyway. The point on the team is that unlike QF63, I do expect the chances of a more diffused team to be higher/better in this game, and I do feel that the assumption that Infinite was coached into making a retaliatory vote feels odd in light of this expectation. Also, in Archer's language ( ) it feels moot to me because some new players do in fact retaliation vote off the bat. I'm staying until Mat's birthday, thank you In the absence of Mat, I could be induced to Elk at this point, but feel I'd rather let Elk play more as he's just returned. Thoughts on the Mat train, Elk, since it raised your concern? As it should be >:(
  9. Kasimir
    Mostly the fact that the connections among the newer players made it hard to work out if they were connected or if it's just pre-existing relations from other parts of the Shard. My read was that you were underdiscounting that as a confounding factor, and I kind of still think you are, but at the same time, I agree it's worth D1 pressure so I guess I'm at the odd position where I disagree with your reasons but don't disagree with what you're doing. It's a team of five, isn't it? A guy asks Szeth that one time >>
  10. Kasimir
    I... Far be it from me to condemn the GM Almighty from looking. No shame on you, sir. None on Devo as well. The rest of you non-Silho lot! If you look! Dishonour on you, dishonour on your family, dishonour on your COW! >:( And the quokka will judge you for it.
  11. Kasimir
    Any particular reason why? I feel LG90 flashbacks here
  12. Kasimir
    @Shining Silhouette Hey if you're not Silho and looking...Shame on you! >:(
  13. Kasimir
    Do you have something you'd like to start discussion on? Edited to add: Oh yeah, my bad sorry, I should've used the double spoilers as well to denote this was a Thread PM, my bad, thank you for graciously pretending you didn't see it Elk, I owe you one
  14. Kasimir
    I made a longer post about this in a thread the Cosmere spoilers segment for TLM, although that's more focused around the idea of whether adversity really spurs scientific development. The short of it is yes and no, and it depends on what we consider to be 'conflict', 'advancement', and 'innovation.' Are we thinking about science, or are we thinking about technological innovation? World War 2 is a decent example of the pressures and demands of wartime spurring technoscientific developments. But WW2 was in a powerful sense a modern war, and countries could afford to actually focus boffins on problems. Historically, I'd argue that plenty and positive social conditions (e.g. caliphs who supported scholarship and built institutions to amass knowledge and encourage scholarly collaboration, with the Golden Age of Islamic/Arab Science being a clear counterexample) were more positive on that front. This is to do with a lot of discussions I'm bracketing as well about the foundations of modern science and shifting epistemologies. More germane to this discussion: I'm more with Kelsier. I don't really think that discovery stops just because Sazed gives them more knowledge, so long as the social conditions for curiosity and scientific discovery are met. (Again, separate issue.) The parallel that speaks to me comes from two fronts: I think of yet again, the Golden Age of Islamic Science, and I think of the history of medicine in Japan. I think it's often a mistake to think of people as mere recipients or transmitters of knowledge. People don't often preserve: they challenge, they question, they add. Islamic proto-scientists added to the medical, astronomical, and physical canon. They made their own observations. They theorised. They responded to a body of knowledge that had been received, and then sought to write their own page in that great book. The history of Japanese medicine is also interesting because it's dominated by two large traditions: first, imports of Chinese medical frameworks, referred to as Kanpō in - I think it was the sixth century? - and then subsequently, a rush to adopt Western medicine (well, technically Dutch medicine - rangaku in the Tokugawa shogunate) and to reconcile it with existing knowledge. We have Japanese medical scholars in both instances questioning, seeking to contextualise, develop, and to apply knowledge to local conditions, taking control of it, and making it their own. Sometimes this meant haphazard adoption, unsystematic translations, and lots of mixtures between the old and the new system. I don't think it's really possible for Sazed to 'hand them the answers' in a way that damages scholarship. Unless we're supposed to accept Sazed knows everything, simpliciter, there's always something to be discovered, and new places for research to go. To some extent, the colonial experience is (was I suppose I should say since we are now our own country ) this way because we don't get to choose what the Western powers shoved into us and our education system, but while there have been movements to restore or at least acknowledge prior epistemologies, no one seriously thinks that the experience made us 'lazy' or 'unappreciative.' But that's how you get hospitals next to traditional clinics co-existing peacefully I suppose, and a consensus that 'Western medicine' is where you go when you want results, and 'traditional medicine' is good for specialised problems. I don't actually think being 'too sheltered', FWIW, is a reasonable response to any failure on the part of North Scadrians to develop a proper scientific community. Era 2 suggests they're already there. Now, the one argument I could see for pacing development actually goes in the other direction - it's that if they develop too fast, Scadrian society might not be prepared to deal with the negative externalities of development, or the demands they make on society. That I think is a fair concern.
  15. Kasimir
    That's fine, I can keep my vote on you for three weeks! Edited to add: Hi @Elkanah, I've been seeing you on the thread maybe thrice now. What's up? :eyes:
  16. Kasimir
    Right. @Shining Silhouette K so where was I. As I was saying, the context you kinda need is that SE used to be a lot less forgiving to players who wanted to change playstyle. I found the Alv quote I'm looking for here: Emphases mine. You can find the post in context here: But this recurs every once in a while. People feel like they're kind of stuck in one way of doing things or they get @ for not doing it. Ngl it's how I feel sometimes because I get @ for not actually being in the thick of it as a Villager when sometimes I'm having a bad couple of days and don't really just wanna engage and just want to sit there and let the world go on without me. But yah I get I'm part of the problem here because V!me is usually too keen to get into the fray so when everything is going right, by right I will be there where the brawling is and I go stir-crazy if I just sit quietly and don't try to solve so wcyd sort of a problem of my own making. So yeah I get it. So in general we've shifted the needle now to letting players explore different playstyles if they mention they're exploring, or at least giving that some sort of grace, which I think is the better way to slice it. I'd rather let a potential Elim slip past and catch them on something else rather than create a meta where playstyle shifts are overscrutinised and therefore discouraged. The tldr; is It Depends but for very obvious reasons if you do Thing A five times as a Villager and Thing B five times as an Elim, people are probably going to try to make an alignment inference and it might actually be correct. That's kinda what we'd call a tell YMMV. Which is neither here nor there, and you get a shrug from me on whether you get a Village point for the question because it's A Question but not necessarily a game question and I guess I'm not in a read posts mood today. I guess we could ask why I'm even answering this but whatevs this is a thread PM now. Also yeah actually the original question is just really weird broski how is a change in playstyle supposed to cause a change in alignment, that's a fundamental GM/RNGesus choice how did I not notice. I could be a troll and argue causation is a bunk concept and even if we think it isn't, correlation can't prove causation, but stepping aside from that can of worms, they're just two independent things. The real causal direction we're interested in is whether change of alignment causes a change in playstyle, to which the answer is: probably yes for most players, but to temper it: also probably fairly undetectable in many, or at least, you're better off looking at other things to find Elims, maybe not a bad basis on which to put the pressure D1. But also there are meta SE reasons why I'm happy to give a pass to it, and I do seriously doubt that we actually reliably/often enough ID the actually indicative things, only things that we think are indicative. And temper that with the fact that SE players often give their capabilities too much credit on both sides of the fence (or I'm drunk enough to say this out loud) and you have a right mess. Yah I think I'm just tired and drunk today. I saw Bookwyrm reading the thread and Wiz and somehow my brain read it as Wyrmhero which gave me a moment of sudden great joy and fear :| Would anyone really be expecting you to be trying to get Alv to post? Stick with my apologies but it's no longer your birthday in my timezone. Happy birthday Mat :eyes:
  17. Kasimir
    Right sorry Silho got distracted by the Archer and Turtle affray. So the main reason I ask is that if you use the word 'playstyle', then it becomes sort of obvious I think. It's easier to recognise when alignment influences a player's playstyle if you have a track record of their tendencies when Village and when Evil. Maybe V!them has a habit of running into every single fray they possible can, maybe E!them stays aloof or plays reactively. Maybe V!them has a tendency to aggressively push and litigate the exe, while E!them hangs back and lets the Village do it. Ideally, players of a certain school of thought aim to increase as far as possible the overlaps between E!them and V!them. In theory, it's a perfect circle for some players. And for some players, there's just a huge night and day difference with minimal overlap. I do think a number of current SE players overestimate their ability to infer alignment from playstyle, and it's not my favourite inference to draw. (I'm the voting guy, remember? This stops me from over-tunnelling.) Looking at playstyle shifts can be distracting, e.g. when a player happens to be dealing with bad RL, or poor Internet, and there's the infamous Xino engagement drop when he's on mobile. Players like Archer (well Archer used to, IDK if he still does that) shift playstyle and experiment basically every game or every other game, meaning that a change in playstyle is expected, so you can't really infer from that. Xino in BT1 also picked a playstyle that would've been insanely suicidal for an Elim so that was decent grounds for a Village read IMO, at least a prima facie one. There's a meta reason I dislike it, and that has to do with a period in SE history where a lot of players were pinned down by playstyle, sometimes into playstyles that made them unhappy and they weren't allowed to change. I can give you the citations in a bit, I'm just cutting this short because Araris did something kayana I don't understand and it is very important to me I yell about it. Of course, since you're directing the question to me, I could very well say that if you're asking me, I stand by what I've said numerous occasions before: I am a good transparent Village boi and my Village play is very obviously different from my Elim play in philosophy, interest/engagement level, and so on The what. The frith the what. Bro. Has Alv even voted yet. Am I drunk. Are we looking at the same game.
  18. Kasimir
    Ah, ok, my bad - read you as saying this was 'moot' as in there's no point because it's V!Turtle, which I thought was overly-hasty. This, however, reads like a more reasonable stance to have. It's the function of the Stone Shaman role, and probably a reason the Elims will be glad to take it out - the Shaman makes Blade accumulation risky because they are confirmed Village and can see who is accumulating Blades, as well as to keep Blades in circulation. That first part shouldn't be underestimated as well.
  19. Kasimir
    Fairly high confidence judgement to make on p2 of D1. Interested in where that comes from - V! and E! Turtle are both apologetic and waffly in my book so I don't take that as exculpatory. Even then, the GM will do several distros and reject the ones that are prima facie bad. But common practice is not for the Elims to randomise for roles - the GM will pick those to ensure the Elim team is functional, as is the Village, and then randomise for players in those slots. Or you can do what Meta does, preselect the distro. Say you know the team has an E!Seeker. Then you run RNG for roles and select among three players who randed Seeker for who you want Elim.
  20. Kasimir
    Define meta. Specifically, do you mean meta or playstyle here, because I suspect you're looking for playstyle.
  21. Kasimir
    Fair—what's the mechanism though? I'm thinking of the shock categories and it doesn't seem to fit any of them (neurogenic, hypovolemic, septic, anaphylactic.) Intuitively a significant amount of pain should be very damaging, and you could potentially harm the person from convulsing (let's be fair, even a taser shot, beyond the safety issues to do with electricity, can badly hurt a person if they just collapse to a hard surface and hit their head which is another concern with a pain weapon like this). Most of the shock categories require something like sudden massive blood loss, spinal cord damage, immune system severely overreacting, sepsis, etcetera. I'm trying to work out what the mechanism would be here.
  22. Kasimir
    K. The short is that the main reason @xinoehp512 and I cleared Turtle was that Turtle claiming and using (or seeming to have used) a roleblock didn't really make sense for E!Turtle. Elims just don't claim the roleblock, use it to put Xino down (or me), and then go on without fanfare. Keep in mind that Xino was a Village Lurcher who had blocked two Elim kills already so a decent priority target. Then there's Turtle refusing to vote in a cycle where they could've just voted to bus Bookwyrm, and then it functionally wouldn't have made a difference and they wouldn't have risked death. Like - again, Turtle absolutely probably learned from the experience. Goodness knows I would've. But I feel that half the issue that game was just overthinking about the level the Elim team was gunning for. Turtle just picked the direct options quite a bit. So I just want to caution against overprojecting how E!Turtle might play because I think that's what threw me that game. I don't expect it to matter D1 - I think D1 is going to come down to...well, you, me, and Araris have made our views on D1s clear. But given the state of PMing in this game and the fact I see no real reason to delay, I figured I'd caution you about how you model E!Turtle. I've put a note on Turtle's Evil profile for my own part.
  23. Kasimir
    Imma be honest Stick. IDGAF atm whether you're Village Stick rn or Evil Stick but uh. Take it from me. I'd argue you should dial down any predictions of what is logical for E!Turtle to do and just do the first level, most obvious E!Turtle response, barring the expectation that in a game like this, a team of five should be more proactive about establishing what should be done. You can ask @Matrim's Dice or @The Wandering Wizard why >> Edited to add: Like if you're Village and still alive later into the game and I'm not alive to yell this for whatever reason, you'll want to adjust your calculus. 'Cause if you don't, there's a chance it can come back to bite you when you really don't want it to. Potentially could change as Turtle plays more games and I'm too lazy to check Turtle's current MU game count. Also as I said, team of five might temper E!Turtle's responses, but - QF63. Just don't >>
  24. Kasimir
    *This just in folks, no Elim hammer from Archer this game, but if you see Mat lurking like a shark, be wary. Be very wary
  25. Kasimir
    This just in, folks: No Elim hammer from Archer or Mat this game
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