Kasimir
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Everything posted by Kasimir
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Wiz Devo
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This would make some sense, and agreed about the scan issue. They do guess randomly, but again, as you point out, that potentially leaves them making some dicey guesses. But really the best place to be as Village is to make the stab successfully ASAP and then this isn't your problem anymore. But in general I don't like how dead the thread is and feel that talking is better to try to find TDs at a slightly better than random rate.
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But how do they know who is paired if even we don't? All they can do is try to mark someone from the other team and hope we take that player out. Alternatively, they have to guide us to try to get us to kill there. This feels like the sort of thing that can leave a trace if we talk about it in the thread, forcing the TDs to play out their hand.
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My thought was to go off behaviour, and flips, since flips technically 'confirm' a player. I'm not sure why they want to find pairs, though - killing one opponent leaves the other one in the game. You only get the freebie if they kill a TD. Players that look more or less coordinated with others given no PMs in this game should also rise in suspects. And forcing the TDs to make some form of claim to blend in could at least lock them into a specific corner, because the longer you stay alive, the more you have had to either be incredibly unlucky or Evil. Edited to add: The other issue is you don't kill - you can mark hoping the others will make the kill for you, but if they don't, they don't. Presume this means potentially passive play is not entirely rewarding. They'll need to guide opinion enough to nudge players at a marked target, maybe with a cycle's delay.
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:eyes:
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I mean, I fully expect someone to be lying at some point. I don't think this table helps Village players right now, but hopefully it'll help someone in C3 or so, if we have more info. I feel like given the informational situation, I'm leaning towards collecting faction claims, but Devo has made a case pre-game for how that could help the TDs. But the way I see it, we're in an informationally poor situation anyway and opponents aren't removed unless you hit a TD successfully, which the TDs don't necessarily want, so I see that as being a mixed bag, but why not. Let's face it, the TDs will be collecting claims in that doc of theirs anyway so we might as well put our heads together even if we win solo! We know the likely distro is 6/6/4 so theoretically we can have a pure list with two more AAs yet to ID themselves, but I don't know how much I believe this Aladar Sadeas Kas Xino Devo (?) Wiz (?) Turtle
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Theoretically if we did that it could be interesting. Because the TDs kind of can't win that way unless it goes to outnumber. It'd functionally be a 'who blinks first' sort of scenario (cf. LG9, QF6), but IMO it's a losing proposition - we win individually, and buying time benefits the TDs because they just mark everyone, and then the moment a single Villager defects (which has to happen at some point, due to individual wincons), the kill domino occurs and everyone Village-side loses. The thing is that your faction doesn't win anyway. It is not a viable wincon in this game. So how do you (I know, Turtle not you but I lazy) really propose to 'make your faction win'? You sure you not a TD, Turtle? :eyes: K, let's try something: Aladar Sadeas Kas Xino Devo (?) Wiz (?) Known so far, at least based on claims. I personally don't really care since the TDs know I'm not with them and will kill me no matter what. TDs will functionally have to claim to be with one of these but as long as one of us keeps the running list of faction claims going into future cycles, we should be able to start working out gaps and lies as players begin to flip, or kill TDs and take their partners with them.
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I don't understand how that functionally works. I'll edit for justification later but if you are Village then your attacks don't kill anyway unless your target is a marked Villager or a TD who failed their 50% survival coinflip. I'm actually leaning a bit towards TD OP but trust Devo's simulations more than my own raw thoughts.
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Long Game 91: A Fresh Start in Shinovar
Kasimir replied to Ashbringer's topic in Sanderson Elimination
"The Tukari are coming for the Honorblades," said Esaan. Kvaseth-son-Wysan followed the woman who held his stone through the rows and rows of grapes on trellises. Once, he would have been in her place, he thought, bending down to inspect the vines more closely, determining if the grapes were infected, if they were doing too well and needed to be stressed. Stressed grapes, all Shin farmers knew, gave the best harvest. "You know this?" "A message from the High Council," Esaan replied, her expression grave. "I'm sending you to them, Kvaseth. To Vartan." He wanted to ask her why. He was no great warrior, Kvaseth thought. But he had chosen the path himself, and damned himself in the eyes of all. And now, it was his to walk, one way or another. He did not like Vartan. Did not like the man's condescension. Esaan, at least, had understood, however faintly. You did not really understand, until you had knelt in the burning wreckage. Until you held your daughter's cold hand in your own, soot-streaked hand. Until you knew there was no going back, one way or another. He would miss this life. Of grapes, of the cool breeze on the terraced slopes. Of wine presses, of rich mustus. The harvest was coming, but Kvaseth would not see it, if Esaan had her way. Sometimes, it hurt. Reminded him of what he'd given up. The pain came less and less frequently now, as though there was only so much a man could allow himself to grieve. She held his stone. There was only one answer he could give her. "As you wish," said Kvaseth. "Find out what's happening, Kvaseth," said Esaan. "And whatever happens, protect the Honorblades from the Tukari." She was not one of them anymore. She preferred the solace of the grapes to the machinations of the High Council. But Kvaseth knew that more than anyone, Esaan had her thumb firmly on matters important to Shinovar. "I will," he promised. He was stonesworn. Signing up as Kvaseth-son-Wysan, a swordsman dispatched from former Council member, Esaan. Edited to add: If I had a dollar for every single SE game I've played that had a rollover time at some godforsaken hour in the morning or at night, I'd probably have $20. But that's only because I haven't played that many SE games, as compared to games that have been at awful hours for me Case in point: QF63 was at 2AM, LG90 was at I think...4AM? -
I've always wanted to use this gif but never wanted to play an FFA!
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Yes and no. This is a FFA v. Faction game. You individually win when you stab a TD. The TDs win as a group. There's probably a Tragedy of the Commons level problem here because it will be rough to be one of the remaining duelists trying to find and stab a TD. You personally want to stab a TD ASAP. You win doing this but you also know it makes life harder for the others left behind, but that's fine as you don't functionally share a wincon with them anyway. I'd probably say the vote is still useful. Without it, we're stuck trying to read the leaves to find a TD. I can't see any TD reason to interact with this game at all. Sure, they want to place their kills and ID duelist pairs but how is that going to work C1? I don't even know who I am paired with, except it must be one of Sadeas's Slayers. If I don't even know my partner, how do the TDs work it out beyond marking me and waiting for the stab to happen? That's going to be a cumulative thing. Honestly I am partly wondering if even expecting TD interaction with the vote is optimistic, but if we at least talk about it, we force them to interact with it too, for fear of sticking out, and then we can do analysis about that. The flip side of the coin is that maybe they might be the ones trying to secure protection. Who knows?
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Okay, but how do you see them positioning themselves with regard to the voting? Do you think they'll try to mark players aggressively pushing for nominees in the hopes that other players might think they are TDs? Do you think they're going to try to swing/nudge to a TD nomination? Since that means that's one TD they don't have to worry about currently. Dunno, Whysper, that feels like a very off-the-cuff first level analysis to me, and I'm slightly curious that it's coming from you, although I admit we've never played together before.
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That being said, in general, I would argue that reskinning to a Cosmere theme is probably much easier than working out a new ruleset. Unless you are especially trying to capture something unique about a setting in a non-Sanderson game (IMO, I'd argue that's really what the best non-Sanderson games do), you are probably fine just reskinning. My Star Wars MR is a case in point - this could theoretically be a Cosmere MR and it's actually a rerun of a game that was a Windrunners versus Skybreakers MR.
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It definitely doesn't matter. Technically, by right, BTs are supposed to be RP-lite anyway so my attitude is that I am just writing whatever. Question to everyone: technically, the TDs have a 50% chance of survival, but they still don't really want to be stabbed. It doesn't really matter for us unless we are marked. How do you foresee this interacting with the survival vote? Edited to add: @xinoehp512, I'm gonna laugh if we are paired. May the best swordsman win!
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I'm not really in a state to be doing maths or simulations so if you and Araris think that's the best move, I'm down for it. It's 2AM, cut me some slack, my brain isn't working Edited to add: I had assumed they were regular training swords - using them on dummies seems like overkill, and how do we find that many Shardblades for an entire competition in Alethkar?
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A Dune reference? Wonderful. May thy sword chip and shatter! Keredin strode out onto the sands of the arena, sword held out to his side. Fancier, that way, even if it wasn't one of the prescribed ready positions. For a moment, his eyes met Adolin's, and he winked. He couldn't say that hadn't been a fun date. There was much about it that Keredin regretted, including the circumstances, but it had been fun, and they were both duelists, which meant there was something at the very least that they both shared. Still, it had been a long journey to fight in the ranks of Highprince Aladar's men. He'd never really liked Sadeas. Aladar, at least, had a sense of style, and for all his duelists were considered the underdogs this year, Keredin had a good feeling about this bout. He laughed quietly to himself. "So, Lehaz," Keredin said, selecting one of the duelists he saw standing nearby, waiting to rush with the others. "They're giving us the chance to sue for immunity, aren't they? Tell me why I should back you for it. Or," he added, a beat later, "Why you think a swordsman like yourself might need one." Edited to add: Disagree. Think it leads to a clear reversal of the standard dynamic that is already playing out in thread for us to see.
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Pst. Lotus
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"Yet you have never been there. You have not seen what it has become. I am dying, Maximus. When a man sees his end... he wants to know there was some purpose to his life. How will the world speak my name in years to come? Will I be known as the philosopher? The warrior? The tyrant...? Or will I be the emperor who gave Rome back her true self? There was once a dream that was Rome. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... it was so fragile. And I fear that it will not survive the winter."
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Yeah but the theorising was specifically based on the size of this game, so. Arguably yes. A Crewmember is twice as likely to be hit by Violation as compared to a Shade. Not saying it is impossible, but on what was it - a five player train? JNV being hit by Violation as compared to four other Villagers, each of which was twice as likely to attract Violation as E!JNV would've put a serious challenge to E!JNV theories. Not impossible, sure, but the plausibility is really out there. Edit: Like, if you don't go JNV, where do you go? Wiz? Turtle? Kinda feels like that kicks us back to those two, and at that stage of the game, Wiz had more Village cred than Turtle. <Ash, me, Xino> was always going to be a non-starter.
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Would 14 be better? :eyes: Alternatively, what's the number you're aiming for? In terms of 'minimum that would make this easier for distro.'
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I don't disagree but TDs are Elims or sufficiently Elim-like so that alters the nature of the solving you are doing. If I found that as compelling as Village problem-solving, I'd not have asymmetric problems with my Elim play in the first place. Theoretically yes for the Duelists but again, it's Elim-like, similar to IDing the power role. It's helped by the fact I should try informed stabbing but really can't go wrong at least trying. Not saying this makes it a bad game but it does make it less of a fit for my typical interests which is why I'm considering either dropping out or taking this seriously as a chill game because that barrier is there and chilling and having fun isn't bad. Instead of going high octane.
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Sounds like we should be Evil together sometime. You can happy quokka stab, I'll angry quokka vote. I'm not responsible for anything I say right now, it's a chill weekend evening and I've had one (1) drink.
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Works for me, thanks!
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Have fun, I promise not to angery quokka stab you until you're back with us
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I can't into FFAs I live for solving, FFAs just make my brain go: Have stayed out of pretty much all SE FFAs for a reason! But yeah feels like this BT gonna be:
