Kasimir

Why am I gonna hate this?

I suspect he's trying to tie it in to canon. We know Sierin Vayu canonically succeeds Tamra as the Amrylin Seat, it's just...weird because she's a Red-sympathetic Grey, and here, uh, I think TJ made her a Red instead Well played, BridgeBoi, and great game everyone, thanks for GMing, TJ bhai!

Or, I guess Polly could just prevent me from having to make a judgement call, that's fine too I'll take it!

60/40 divided. My read is there's probably one Elim in TJ/Stick (60% world.) In that world, I probably lean on it being TJ but need to really think it through. I don't actually like Stick's pushing back on TJ like this and my immediate reflex was that the defensiveness reads Evil to me on a gut level, but Stick's proposal for those who have actually been paying attention was never meant to 'clear' players or out Elims in most worlds. It was meant to create a winning situation for the Village. This is why I was willing to lean V on her for the moment (again, Stick's too good a player for me to be complacent about the read.) At the same time, I came off a game where the player who did that sort of pushback was actually Village and that player has certain similarities to Stick, including the fact they play in similar communities, so I don't know how confident to feel about it. I don't hate Wiz's vote as I think the tiebreak should be informative here regardless. (The player who she kind of pushed back on did the retaliatory vote that TJ's locked in.) I don't super love TJ's Stick vote here - he's more willing to talk to Stick than he is to me, so this should indicate he thinks Stick is more likely V than me, so why is his vote on Stick and not on me? This is the thing I'm referring to. TJ, I, maybe Stick (I think she's a bit better but so sue me, I'm scared of E!Stick ) are in the same player bracket where a D1 push on us ain't great and usually doesn't end well for the Elim trying it, so if TJ thinks this is what E!him would do, why does he think that E!Stick or E!me deliberately avoid this? This is...the logical play in a thread/game that hasn't had a very active D1, considering Stick and I are making a decent chunk of thread volume/discussion pushing here. 40% world - I've seen kayana Village TJ where all his reads are just insanely off/weird, or rather I GMed that game. I don't know how great I feel about it because his accuracy seemed to be pretty okay in the mash he just finished playing. That's the one we really are V/V/V and the Elims are just sitting back and laughing as we sus/murder each other. I lean against it mostly because I think you have to start with the active Elim assumption then work around to inactivity. The trick is revising in decent time. I'll note there's ruler's vote which has been pretty much a naked vote. In that world, ruler's probably one of the first few people I question. Wrt Polly, it's the Elim overcompliance issue. Also - DK why TJ is settling on a 2 Elim world out the gate. You always play/plan for the worst scenario first. Where's the 2 Elim confidence coming from? You suddenly managed to clear the rest of the game while arguing with Stick? Tonally I'd like to think TJ is Village here but I also have had the worst track record just running off tone, cf. LG96 (E!TJ), and a bunch of other games. But I'll probably make up my mind when I have the time to as I'm staring at this in between rushing some other stuff since I'm apparently popular this morning. I am not averse to a pivot but I'm still leaning towards probably one Elim in the two of them and I acknowledge it's just based off the nagging sense that interaction doesn't feel right. @BridgeBoi Would your experience from last game give you some confidence in at least sharing your reads here? You did find Illwei after all, and it's important we keep discussing at the very least.

Or to make the point more pointed (lol): Why in the world do you think that you can say E!you wouldn't push V!Stick and would NK V!Stick with mild pocketing and believe this is an argument for V!you but not an argument for V!Stick choosing to push you or me choosing to push you in a tepid game with no real analysis or investment? (I say, even though I'm pretty sure timezones mean you'll be asleep and won't get back by rollover.)

The sign-up list is here. (For viewing, not for use - it's not editable openly.) QFs and MRs are run in alternate cycles, so suffice to say you probably will have enough time. If you want more experience GMing (specifically), you can also consider asking if someone wants to take a co-GM. I'll add you in a bit (stuff piling up) - feel free to ping me by tomorrow if I haven't yet told you you've been added. Edited to add: @BridgeBoi - Added you to the list!

If you believe I'll feel intensely guilty on you flipping V, why is it you also believe E!me would willingly do this to you on your first game back rather than just NKing you on C2 or C3 after a pocket?

Narrator: TJ did not, in fact, hit the GTS

Just to confirm, you want to GM?

Ngl Hoid's post kind of makes me wish it were true because just going full out kayana and abusing thread control with Stick would be such a badchull and cool way to win in an Elim game (echoes of Drake in LG103) But yeah hell no thanks Elim games can go to Braize nice peaceful Village games only thanks. Please don't curse me distro gods.

Eh jebiga then. TJ

I can't really explain why I'm getting the flashbacks. I'll try to sleep on it but it basically involved one Elim and one Villager except the Villager looked Evil af (sorry) and it was a godawful shoving match. Not sure if it's the valence of TJ or Stick setting me off here.

Nothing I haven't already spelled out in thread. I think there's something Stick is obviously doing that feels counterintuitive but seems decently Village if you think it through. I'm declining to spell it out for the class if people aren't following until a little later. I also respect Stick enough not to lock her as Village on that basis. Are you literally asking me to give you a pass and to refuse to pressure you for being a null read in a 12 player game with so many new players you can throw a rock and hit three at a time? It's 12 players. In a 3 Elim world, ignoring Starkeeper BS, we hit lylo at four cycles. Midgame is C2/C3. I think it's tight enough that I should damn well be pressuring you from the getgo. I also note you seemed more on the ball early on in the mash you just came off. Me getting flashbacks to a game that can't be mentioned -.- I s2g if you both are pulling the same BS again.

Me, not really liking this because flashbacks to E!TUN from LG90. Don't super like this votestate. Hoid looks Village to me for now, I'm willing to accept V!Stick for the moment, though with STINK unvoting, this is less of an issue. I do think Hoid is misreading Stick, but feel the way Hoid is framing his argument on balance probably comes from a Village mindset compared to an Elim mindset. I'm maybe 60-40 on V!TUN right now: I liked this post because it felt very improvisory and I didn't see E!TUN just thinking aloud in the thread. I think either way you read the post (I read it as TUN arguing for a single Breath per cycle, Stick read it as as many Breaths as possible), it just comes off as weirdly bad in a way I don't think an Elim wants. Pushed him hard to see if I could get a better reaction out of him that's more readable than this weird squishy state but he's apparently thinking this is a reaction test, and his response wasn't what I fully consider V!TUN parameters, so I'm calling it a wash for now. TUN. I don't like TWTBAW and we'll probably need to relook TUN but he can be a C2/C3 problem. Recognise that a whole class of forum mafia players are screaming in my head that you don't do TWTBAW you just exe the Elim, but oh well, Stick's doing it too so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So current tentative/weak V!reads: <Stick, STINK, TUN, Hoid, Raven> Not fully sure how I'd parse Raven's post rn. I'm ok leaving it. Leaves me with: <Ruler, BridgeBoi, TJ, Stormy, Wiz, Polly.> Feelsbad to vote for Ruler or BridgeBoi given first game but I guess our player pool is the way it is. If forced I'd kinda want to say I think Stormy's opening post here feels a tad more V than E, compared to his last game, but I don't feel that strong about it. Honestly would be ok with a TJ vote here, but IDK if he's just busy or what and it #feelsbad to C1 bhai. Low key think Polly is Evil, but Polly is giving Breath here (this isn't a "giving Breath therefore Village" deal, just a pragmatic one. Tbh I'm wondering if we should just, like, get someone else to do it and exe Polly.) Acknowledge Polly is playing a bit differently as well and hanging back quite a bit which isn't reassuring for how my reads are turning out. Mmm. I'll put some pressure on BridgeBoi for now. @|TJ| - Sorry bhai, gotta say this. I've seen you be able to get into a game despite being a bit crunched on time. I know you've had busy/low-presence V games like the KR one, and I'm hoping to be able to see something a bit more indicative from you because I may very well feel compelled to switch to you or Polly when I wake up properly in a couple hours, depending on the thread state. Edited to add: I kinda know why Stick is slightly V!reading Wiz and I'm hanging off Wiz a bit in respect to that but I also don't super feel apathy arguments for being Village are great and on principle I'm preferring to downgrade that a bit.

I'm asking people to vote on you, aren't I? Edited to add: @The Unknown Flame - What's your take on the thread now?

Didn't like your opening, if I'm being honest. Felt very hard-mech-centric.

TWTBAW is a lie they tell children. If it quacks like a duck it is a duck. If it is a blasphemer, it is a blasphemer! Can I get a TUF vote y'all

WINNING A PROMOTION IS NOT WORTH YOUR SOUL Pic unrelated.

The latest Hallendren demands had sent a chill through the entire embassy, and it was not the crisp mountain wind. Izmir knew what that chill was. No one had felt at ease when Regent Genda had first announced that the blasphemous Hallendren would be allowed to dispatch one of their soulsucking leeches to Idris to handle the latest round of peace negotiations. A hard peace to barter, Izmir thought, when they had only a single coin that the Hallendren would accept. "My negotiations will not fail," Regent Genda said, with more certainty than she'd displayed when talking to the Hallendren. Izmir supposed talking to blasphemers and heretics had that effect on people. "I need you. Idris needs you." If only she was asking of them anything else other than their souls. One of the assembled staff, Stick, had started asking for volunteers. Izmir hid a thin smile. He was no stranger to the politicking and gamesmanship, even in the heart of Idris. He was tempted to think a little better of Stick for it, though it wasn't something he would stand by. You didn't make it as one of the top Idrian diplomats without the ability to hide what you were really thinking behind a poisoned smile while offering Hallendren enough they didn't feel offended. [OOC: Probably willing to V!lean Stick a tiny bit, unhappy about this. If you pay attention to what she's doing, the reason is obvious, wouldn't stand by this firmly especially in the long run because Stick is Stick and I'm not gonna ride or die D1 read her.] He still felt Gandor was probably not trying to sabotage the negotiations, though no one had asked him for his own opinion. There was a certain artlessness to flailing about, accusing Simon in public of trying to—to what, corrupt him into abandoning Austre and betraying Idris by the cunning use of handwritten notes? Izmir snorted, and paged shut his notebook. No. Gandor was inexperienced enough (at least to someone like Izmir, who'd been serving Idris for decades and for all of that, gotten stuck in the same Colours-cursed job for all that time. Mid-level diplomatic attaché, with no real prospects for advancement or promotion. No one gave him the interesting work.) There was a chance that someone like him might struggle to fabricate accusations, might wind up going for something as peculiar as what he eventually had. But Izmir rather thought that Gandor's accusations rang of sincerity. He would probably be happy to rethink Gandor by the third day or so of this impasse. In contrast, Elidyr, who was volunteering at about the same time as Gandor, because damning their souls apparently didn't bother either of them...he had his doubts about Elidyr. Was she too quick, too ready to commit a sin? [OOC: Weak V!read on Raven, I think the whole "why ya tryna PM me, sus" thing reads more sincere Villager suspicion than "inexperienced Elim trying to do fake-arse suspicions", will rethink or presumably get a better read on Raven or whatnot by C3. I'll add that I can see an E!Polly here to Raven's V. I'll need to see more from Polly to make a better assessment, but weak E on Polly.] There wasn't really much to go off, but he wanted to think Simon was, on the whole, not the sort of guy who would stab one of the Hallendren. Simon just seemed ready to hang out and have a good time, and Izmir tiredly wondered how Simon felt so secure about his career prospects, let alone the ongoing diplomatic incident. Or crisis, depending on your point of view. [OOC: What it says on the tin. Most unsupported V!read on STINK ever, like his vibes, guy's here to chill in the thread, will rethink later but it's C1 y'all I'm not gonna overdo this.] He wanted to believe that the unknown diplomat was above board, but frankly, suspected he was probably festooned with knives and wondered if anyone else was going to accuse him as well. [OOC: TUN looks Evil af and honestly I'm curious if anyone's gonna join this vote ] He wanted to think Evinir was probably fine. Something about the way Evinir was pressuring Stick seemed okay to him, but he'd seen that playbook before and didn't want to over-prognosticate. Sometimes, an overly-enthusiastic young diplomat seeking to climb the ranks and betray Idris while they were at it, they did that, they pushed too hard and too fast, and Izmir wasn't sure which way the knife cut this time. But...no, if they forced him to write the attestation, right here and now, he would probably say he thought Evinir was just on the level. [OOC: See my comments previously about how a certain profile of new Elim likes to make those bold pushes against confident, thread-strong Villagers. I could see this being what's going on with Hoid and don't want to consider him ride or die Village C1, but for the moment I can kind of squint and just ascribe the V read. I sort of actually had a negative reflexive read to Stick initially, and my instinct is this kind of pushback is a bit more likely to come from a V mindset.] Well, at least with Gandor, Evinir, and Elidyr all jumping to offer their souls for Starkeeper's dinner, Izmir supposed he was safe for the moment. Safe from deciding if a man's soul was worth his career. Austre, he didn't want to be forced to choose. Damn the Hallendren and their godless ways!

Did I miss something? All I saw was words, smh TJ couldn't even be bothered to give us peanuts or something. If you want to, just do it! I want to but it's been a tiring work day so I'm gonna just chill but try to do something before the cycle closes ._.

Until The End - Breaking Benjamin

Fair point, I said blasphemy twice, lemme come in again. I'm declaring that as an Idrian faithful to the teachings of Austre, I am refusing to commit the blasphemy of surrendering my Breath to one of Hallendren's dogless monstrosities. Also damn WIFOM is an annoying MU word imma go back to saying IKYK to respect Aonar my good man.

Why are you asking me bhai? You should very well know I'm not in your doc, ergo Ash did not in fact do the funniest thing ever, thank God Ahhhh the beautiful feeling of being in a game with bhai again, I missed you OoA has Breath dead last, hence my issue - we're never getting Breath out of the NKed person and the exed player, on top of the coordination issue. I kinda want to V!read this and I'm back to the place where I feel like this person (not in this game, dw) is gonna judge me, and she actually wouldn't be that wrong to do so. Me: "Is this a Villager?" X: " -.- " X: "No Stop." Me: "JUST LET ME V!READ IT DAMNIT." Yeah I have trauma so what. Tbqh I was gonna suggest RNG off the cuff but the error margin for that I'm not fond of. (This was more me thinking about how Araris suggested we wrangle camp defense back in Sart's Rithmatist LG73.) I don't disagree about the funny but I kinda rather not you know? This kinda assumes the Elims gonna choose to play for Breath denial, yeah? I agree that it's info to us either way whether they do so or not, but ngl my instinct regardless is that I did not expect them to play for Breath denial as it's quite likely to be an unforced error on our parts. Said while voting him smh sis I read this as "There are probably Elims" and my immediate reaction was, "No crem? You don't bloody say >>" Yeah. Hence the error issue. We don't want to zergrush Starkeeper because if we do, then we're screwed in the following cycles and lose. TUF But having laid this out, we know they're just gonna go for the WIFOM option. But tbqh I'm completely fine with forcing them to allow us to keep Starkeeper alive this cycle. I'm declaring that as an Idrian faithful to the teachings of Austre, I am refusing to commit the blasphemy of surrendering my Breath to one of Hallendren's blasphemous monstrosities. ...I s2g I'll RP later, I just wanted to get some responses in, someone @ me if I don't RP at all this cycle.

Not a good sign for the rest of the game but I'm not gonna RP rn as I'm coming off an hour's sleep plus an hour's nap. -We're gonna need to make sure we don't mess up giving Starkeeper Breath. We can only screw up once ( @Ashbringer, to confirm you're keeping that safeguard in? I know you were considering removing it depending on player numbers), after which it's game over for us. Plus, if Starkeeper dies, the Assassins win. Not good. So we really need to strategise around this. Keep in mind as well that the exed and NKed players don't get to give their Breath. -tldr; we cannot all zergrush and give Breath C1. (We might be able to but pretty sure that would trivialise the mech and wasn't what Ash had in mind.) We need to make sure that we pace ourselves. In an ideal world, one person gives Breath to SK and that's it, but I kind of don't think we'll get that, and we also need to work around the exe and NK, so there's a bigger margin for error. -Might be some way to organise this but too tired. -TJ I missed you bhai