Pathfinder

Prior to the arrival of the shards honor and cultivation the dawnsingers were a part of Rosharan ecology. They personified the storm into the stormfather who oversaw their changing forms. When honor and cultivation showed up, they co-opted the native investiture. That changed the stormfather over time. Then when the humans came and they came to personify the stormfather in a different way, he began to change more.

1) Got nothing to comment on this as I do not feel what is happening with Maya has anything to do with healing 2) Nothing to add here either, except my earlier point that Adolin could theoretically fit other orders as well as per the WoB I posted 3) I clarified my post before, but I will clarify it again. The statement made prior was that since other radiants could revive their spren by reforming the oaths (kaladin), then so too could Adolin. My point was the difference is in Kaladin's case he was the original knight that swore the oaths. Brandon has said if you are not the original knight, it is harder. Nothing about that WoB says it has to be through living the oaths, just like nothing says it can't 4) Personally I feel my theory is a proposal that holds up rather well. You disagree and think your own proposal holds up rather well. I disagree. Others disagree with both of ours and prefer their valid alternatives. I respect your view and wish you luck with your theory!

If I recall correctly, the Stormfather did in fact predate Honor and Cultivation's arrival to Roshar.

I totally respect that. I just don't see why the radiants would go through the trouble of hiding that their spren could be corrupted, yet at the same time admit they fear Sja-anat the most/in particular. Seems like defeating the purpose. So I have a separate theory that the reason Glys got corrupted by Sja-anat is because Cultivation let it happen. She is setting up numerous chances that could grow into something. Taravangian, Dalinar, and in my opinion Renarin as well. Now again, I have used an unconfirmed theory to basically back up another theory that is backed up by another unconfirmed theory lol. So I understand and respect if this doesn't jive or work for you. Wish I had more concrete stuff to back it up, but at this point I just don't.

Thank you! No worries, I completely understand, hence the disclaimer I started the post with. So personally I think the reasons you offered are a stretch for me, with too many hoops to jump through. Radiants go through all that trouble to hide the reason, but still admit they fear her so much? If they were afraid of finding out if she could corrupt spren, then over the numerous desolations, no radiant was ever in a situation where his spren could have been corrupted by Sja-anat that would find out? Hmmm, the splintering could potentially play a part as it did affect the strength of the honorblades but I still don't know. Well regardless my own theory is very loose/a stretch so I am one to talk lol.

So I first preface this with I know the "lesser spren make shardplate" is a highly contested theory. So I realize that basing part of my theory on the premise that lesser spren making shardplate being true means it is not conclusive as there are well laid out arguments both for and against it. I was just having a back and forth on another thread when @insert_anagram_here brought up a quote, and it got me thinking. So for the sake of working out this theory, I will act as if lesser spren making shardplate is true, even though we do not know this for sure. So here we go "Of the Unmade, Sja-anat was most feared by the Radiants. They spoke extensively of her ability to corrupt spren, though only "lesser" spren - whatever that means." (Hessi's Mythica) So @insert_anagram_here brought up a really good point. If at that time Sja-anat could theoretically only possess "lesser" spren, then why would Radiants be especially fearful of her? I think part of the reason (not the whole, I have a feeling there is more) is that lesser spren make up shardplate (statement made in this fashion for sake of theory, not veracity, please see above explanation). Think of it like this, you are a radiant about to go into battle with high powered enemies or you are outnumbered. You call your shardplate to give you extra protection and the strength to fight off such overwhelming foes except.....nothing happens. Instead of you see corrupted versions of your lesser spren armor hanging around. Panicking you try to summon it again, only for again nothing to happen. You desperately try to fight off your foes with just your healing and surges, but it is not enough without the aid of your armor, and you fall. Or, you form your armor, but some of it is corrupted spren, that begin corrupting the rest of the spren, causing your armor to freeze up, or drain all your stormlight, or any other hazard that could come from being encased by something actively working against you. So that is a broad summation of a rough theory as to why Sja-anat could be so fearsome with her corrupted lesser spren (in addition to using them as spies). What do you all think?

It wipes them out when they are being actively burned. Same thing with feruchemical stores. WoB say you could be a leecher and wipe out a feruchemical metal mind, but only while it is being actively tapped. edit: currently looking for the WoB I am referring to so I do not make a liar out of myself lol edit2: some interesting WoB in the same vein that I found while I am pulling up the WoB I referred to FirstRyder Could Aluminum be used to protect a Surgebinder from a larkin? Brandon Sanderson Yes. havoc_mayhem Would a larkin be able to steal Stormlight from a surgebinder wearing Shardplate? Any comments on whether Shardplate or aluminium would be more effective protection? Brandon Sanderson Getting through both would be relatively equal--with the problem being that Shardplate is powered by investiture, which the larkin could feed on. So aluminum is better in that specific case. (that says to me he assumed the person was referring to covering themselves in aluminum, not burning it, since a surgebinder was the one referenced Questioner What would happen if a Leecher touched Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson *nervous laughter* If a Leecher touched Nightblood the Leecher would be dead. That would not end well. Questioner For the Leecher. Brandon Sanderson For the Leecher. (this I think answers what would happen if Nightblood and Yelig-nar could actually eat each other lol) edit: Ok this is a WoB in the direction of what I am looking for, but not the one I meant yet. See below: Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] If someone had a Hemalurgic spike and they burned aluminum, would the negation of...am I going to get RAFO'd? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] You're asking if it would destroy the Hemalurgic power? Burning aluminum at that point would not destroy the Hemalurgic power. It would pull the Investiture through whatever you're doing. It would blank your power, but it wouldn't destroy you being an Allomancer with the spike. I actually considered this in building it and that would be too easy a way to remove Inquisitors, particularly if there were dissension between them.

Potentially sure, everyone can potentially break under pressure, regardless who you are. I personally do not see Jasnah doing so regarding Szeth, but I can see how you can see that.

No worries lol Personally I do not see "affixing" illusions to pattern nor objects as a partial use of transformation, but that is my own interpretation of the abilities. i think we do not see her use an actual combination of the two till near the end of Oathbringer where her illusions begin to take on physical substance, and Jasnah comments on how she thinks Shallan is doing exactly that. Renarin received visions in Words of Radiance multiple times (I believe the count is 4 or 5? Each time for each time the writing was shown, and then again when the everstorm was about to appear at the end of Words of Radiance. Then we know he saw Jasnah killing him, Dalinar turning evil, and Teft showing up. That is three additional times. So that is 8 times we officially(ish) know of. We have no idea how many other times he has done so that we have not seen. Renarin has had visions enough times that he knows what to look for/when it is coming. Lol, thanks, just need some times to frame my thoughts a bit before I post it.

Just wanted to add a quote from Oathbringer that I think helps support that Dalinar could potentially help Adolin restore Maya, and would show it wouldn't come out of left field. This is the stormfather speaking to Dalinar about his powers: "Yours is the power Ishar once held. before he was Herald of Luck, they called him Binder of Gods. He was the found of the Oathpact. No Radiant is capable of more than you. Yours is the power of Connection, of joining men and worlds, minds and souls."

No problemo I could buy that in so far as given Nale's use of a larkin, he clearly has knowledge and access to means the average person does not have in order to dispatch surgebinders. I don't think this is one such case, but I do acknowledge it is a very real possibility with precedent to back it up. I still disagree here because as per Renarin, for most of even Oathbringer, he wasn't able to make illumination work, nonetheless combine the two. So if the logic is that the future sight of the truthwatchers involves illumination alone, or a combination of illumination and regrowth, then Renarin should not be able to do it, because he spent three entire books (Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and Oathbringer), not knowing how to use illumination at all, and yet he saw the future throughout all three books. Theoretically yes, though I do not think so considering there is a singer song that literally says there is a void form for seeing the future, and that is moeloch's (an unmade) entire schtick. So I would think it is less the corruption copying the future sight, and more the corruption is allowing access to the future sight that normally is only a purview of voidform. So I love that you quoted that, because it just caused me to come up with a theory I am going to post a new thread for. If we assume what the Mythica said is true, and originally only "lesser" spren could be corrupted, then why did radiants fear her? Potentially because lesser spren is what shardplate is made from! (I state that realizing the jury is still out on whether or not shardplate is made of lesser spren). This could prevent or cause problems with summoning shardplate for radiants in battle. This theory literally just came to me so there is a lot of roughness to it. i will think on it more, and see if I can add more to it and then post a thread for it.

Hmmmm, honestly I am not sure how to respond to this. At first I went potentially true, but doesn't aluminum just wipe out whatever kinetic investiture is inside you? So you would be wiping yourself of any stores that Yelig-nar could have fed on, resulting in him feeding directly on you. That does call into question though does what Yelig-nar do by feeding on you count as kinetic investiture? If so, then I think it would just destroy the housing, ultimately stopping him from further feeding on you, but I think you would still die depending on how far the crystals have progressed in replace your body/organs. If however what Yelig-nar isn't kinetic investiture, because he is feeding on yours to fuel his powers that you use, then burning aluminum would potentially accomplish nothing.

Hmmm that is true. I wonder if Venli even can change form at this point considering Timbre has the voidspren held captive. It may even be necessary to remain bonded to the spren to hold the cognitive aspect enough to bond to the radiant spren. In which case, she may remain in envoy form "perminantly"

The fused are animated by Odium's investiture. He literally tells one that if it doesn't do what he tells it to, he will reclaim that which he gave to give it unending life. By killing the fused permanently, nightblood is destroying the investiture that odium gave of itself to animate. Odium does not like breaking off his power (WoB), so to me any force that could destroy what power he sheared off in an effort to escape and prevent him from reclaiming it is a viable threat.

I think this is a good point. I think the answer is no considering Sja-anat as well as older texts all indicate she never corrupted a radiant spren before. She references that she has never done anything like an oathgate before, and if I recall correctly Hessi's Mythica comments on it being lesser spren. Well Brandon has written in red herrings before to keep the readers guessing. So just because it is interpreted one way, does not mean that is the only way just because it was written. I have a response for all of the truthwatcher futurists below edit: one more thing about because it was written it can't be a red herring. Let's look at the placement. People have been wondering if something was up with Renarin's spren since Words of Radiance. The placement of the recording is before it is revealed that Glys was corrupted. I take it as a means to keep the readers guessing all the way up to the final reveal. To cause readers to wonder that other truthwatchers could have seen the future, so Renarin must be a "normal" truthwatcher and nothing is wrong with his spren. Till it is revealed that his spren is in fact corrupted and strongly alluded to that his future sight is due to that corruption. So my big thing is, if all truthwatchers can see the future, and we have every indication that Renarin has been doing so for some time, then why have we not see Stump do the same thing? We know she is a truthwatcher. She has been surgebinding for sometime. Also I will add Ym. Neither of them saw Nale coming for them long before he arrived. I will add further it is only Renarin who is listed on Taravangian's Diagram in black when Odium appears and extrapolates. It is confirmed by Brandon that the reason for this is because of Renarin's future sight. So if Renarin's future sight can cause an atium like effect to Odium's vision, then why not every other truthwatcher, especially when we have seen one bonded and regularly using her surges? edit: and it can't be because she hasn't "advanced enough yet" to use lightweaving to see the future, because Renarin has stated he has trouble lightweaving for some time. He is only able to use it (we think) against the thunderclast alllllll the way at the end of the book. So he has been doing his future deal long before understanding/knowing how to use lightweaving

Thing is we know Elhokar spoke with Nale and Kalak in person. He just didn't know they were heralds. In that flashback Kalak looks like a young man. Roshone on the other hand just six years later looks like a much older man. The Heralds in their current bodies do not age (as they have not in the thousands of years since they abandoned the oathpact). So not exactly sure how Kalak would manage such a disguise for so long if he was Roshone. But I wish you luck with your theory.

Nightblood does kill the fused he "kills". As in they can't come back. And Odium knows this and this will come into play later. WoB. Will add when I pull it up. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] My question is not really a question, it's more of a theory. How Odium keeps the Fused around is more if he has them tied to his essence, so it's like he's essentially fishing them out of the Spiritual Realm and since their minds are left behind in the Cognitive Realm and their minds are *inaudible* damaged, because their spirits are separated and it just pulls them back. I'm 100% convinced Nightblood did kill the thunderclast, because Nightblood consumes all investiture, that's something I asked you back at Barnes and Noble a couple years ago, during Christmas and you said your soul is investiture. So my thought is, that thunderclast isn't coming back any time soon. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] You are correct on that one. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] When I saw that, my thought was, "Yep, It's dead." Other people were like, "I don't know, will it come back?" Nope. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I'll tell you this. They have not run into something like this before, and there will be ramifications of what happened there. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] That is fun to know. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] If you are used to death having no consequence, and suddenly your friend vanishes forever... Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Yeah I, know I already thought of that. They're going to fight over Nightblood. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Mmm. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] So at the of [Oathbringer] how aware is Odium of what Nightblood is and can do? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Modestly. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Taking the sheath, that kind of thing? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] He knows. I would say more than modestly, he is well aware.

Oh I think it is going to be used. I just fear we will not get a true PoV experience in learning how to use it in-depth for some time. We may get transportation from Venli, but that is from the Willshaper's perspective of the surge. I am interested in the Elsecallers. Guess I just have to be patient lol. edit: interesting theory on Ba-Ado-Mishram. Don't have anything I could say to dispute it, nor anything to add to help support it, but all the same interesting. Hope you are right!

I would love an in-depth demonstration, and explanation of transportation and transformation of the elsecallers. Just royally sucks that we may not see that alllllllllll the way till Jasnah's book at the back five.

This is totally my own opinion, and I do not have anything in book to cite to back it up, but I personally have always felt too much is being made of that. I could know friend A and B are horrible for each other, but know if I told them my opinion, they would get pissed, so I keep my mouth shut. They get together, are horrible for each other and then break up. So in that scenario I couldn't tell anyone, couldn't say it, and I foresaw it, all without magic.But that is just my own thoughts.

Thing is we see Jasnah deal with the pressure of the oncoming desolation. That is a pretty big problem. Bigger than what "like everybody else - nearly" deals with. Same thing with Shallan, Kaladin, Dalinar, Adolin, Lift, Teft, and etc, etc, etc. So I do not think it is in this case applicable to compare them to average people with average everyday problems. Considering their pressures, I think they do wonderfully and admirably. They are human.

Below is a list of WoB regarding the original knight and the oaths Questioner Shardblades are essentially spren that have died-- Brandon Sanderson Not all of them have died but yeah. Questioner Oh, my question was if they could be revived? Brandon Sanderson Um this… According to the understanding of those in-world it would require the same person who broke their oath. So it would be possible if any of them were still alive. I'm not ruling out other ways, but that's how it's understood by-- Questioner It would be the traditional way. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, mmhmm. Questioner So you said that, specifically on Roshar, shardblades haven't been revived? And, have they been on other worlds? Brandon Sanderson Uh, no, there are very few things you could call shardblades on other worlds. Questioner Well, I meant the spren that were... Brandon Sanderson Ah ok, yeah yeah yeah. No let's just just...it hasn't ever happened before, and they, in-world, think it's impossible. Questioner And I also have a question about the nature of spren being dead. Specifically about whether or not they can resurrected. Because ideas can never really die... Brandon Sanderson Ideas can never really die-- Questioner ... Cognitive creatures-- Brandon Sanderson They are Cognitive creatures. This is theoretically possible but very difficult without the people who originally betrayed their oaths. I posted it a bunch of pages ago. I don't want to digress further by rehashing it, but if you would like me to re-type it out, I would be happy to. The TLDR version is Adolin's faux bond strengthened his Connection to the blade providing the scaffolding for Dalinar to infuse with investiture from being a Bondsmith to regrow the "data port" in Maya's "head" edit: bolded to call attention to. To clarify was not implying Adolin couldn't bond Maya from just living the oaths (I don't think he could, but that is my own theory. not precluding the possibility for others). Just responding to the point made that if an original knight could rebond the spren and restore the oaths, then that would mean that Adolin could too. Hope that clarifies things.

So I am still looking for the third WoB (just started), but below are Words of Brandon confirming that at least with Squires, there is nothing guaranteed in the bond. I could have sworn there was a WoB that confirmed you could bond a spren and remain at any level of oath your entire life. Bonding a spren does not mean you always advance in oaths, or could not fail in progressing. Actually now that I think about it, Nale mentions exactly this considering he is the only fully oathed Skybreaker in how many years? Will post the third WoB when I locate it Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] In the original Knights Radiant, when they had squires, were all of the squires destined for bonding spren? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No. Many stayed squires forever and that was okay. Storm Cellar Do squires always bond the spren of their Knight's order? Or can they attract a different type of spren? Also, was it normal for someone to serve their whole life as a squire? Brandon Sanderson They can attract a different spren. It was indeed normal, depending on the order and the person. Except we have a WoB that state that works with the original knight that broke those oaths. Adolin is not that original knight.

I agree with a lot of what you say will be happening, but I have a different reason for why I think it is called Rhythm of War. I think it is in reference to the flashbacks we are going to get of Eshonai, that will then show us the traditions and oral history of the listeners to find out what led to the war between the humans and dawnsingers to begin with. The rhythm of war that called them to arms to defend their homeland against the human invaders, and how they came to ally with odium. That may be too much to reveal so soon in stormlight, so I could be totally wrong, but it was the first thought that came to me.

With all due respect that is a self validating rationale. In your opinion, Adolin needs the shardblade narrative to do justice for his character. So there has to be a reason for the narrative to only apply to him, so he can have the narrative that will do justice to his character. To do otherwise would be bad writing. You are perfectly entitled to want Adolin to have that narrative, but that does not mean Adolin could not benefit from some other narrative, or even one where he remains human -sans- radiant. As I said I think he will become an edgedancer, but that doesn't mean a good story could not be written with him as human.