Pathfinder

I mean I guess you could interpret that but to me when you say villages across all of Roshar and when you imply even places as small as villages have parshmen, that says to me they are prevalent at every level of the world. But I guess on this point to each their own Again, I guess you can interpret it that way, though personally I think the text is pretty explicit. Honestly I disagree with your reading of Jasnah, but at the end of the day to each their own. We have already talked about this before and I have already referenced other spots in the books that say to me that that is not Jasnah, but I guess we will just have to RAFO

So making a new post because I have something more to add (First the reference where the parshmen far outnumber the humans:) Way of Kings page 990 "The serve our food" Jasnah continued "They work our storehouses. They tend our children. There isn't a village in Roshar that doesn't have some parshmen. We ignore them; we just expect them to be there, doing as they do. Working without complaint" (Next another quote regarding how Jasnah intends to "handle" the parshmen) Words of Radiance page 113 "And then, there are stories - ones I dare to believe - claiming that Urithiru was holy and protected from the Voidbringers. Maybe that was wishful fancy, but I am not too much a scholar to hope that something like that might be true" "And the parshmen?" "We will try to persuade the Alethi to rid themselves of those" (So we see Jasnah seeking a safe harbor from the potential attack of the voidbringers in Urithiru and a means to convince the highprinces of "getting rid" of the parshmen. Ah getting rid of! She must be talking about killing them all! Except....) "Convincing everyone of what I say is beyond us without more evidence. Even if my brother listens, he doesn't have the authority to force the highprinces to get rid of their parshmen. And, in all honesty, I fear my brother won't be brace enough to risk the collapse expelling the parshmen might cause" (expelling. Definition: to force out or eject. to force someone to leave a place especially a country. She is not trying to wipe out the parshmen, she is trying to get everyone to kick them out of the cities to potentially minimize the fallout when the parshmen potentially change. A suggestion Dalinar takes and does so with his own warcamp, as well as anyone who accompanied him out to the shatteredplains. Finally a suggestion Dalinar also sent to other countries that listened to varying degrees. The suggestion was not to line them up and execute them. It was to expel them)

I also read that as bitterness, but for me I read it as "of course humans would find a way to take something and pervert it, or take advantage of it". there are plenty of things in the world today that I abhor but I go "of course it would happen like that. why would people actually want to help instead of hurt? naturally dont try and stop a fight, record it instead" (the emoji is about my comment, not towards you. i would be rolling my eyes as I said that) Yep really. Got the scene up, just need to type it up for reference. Will update my post to include it soon.

Way of Kings page 979 "...but the legends lie about one thing" Jasnah continued. "They claim we chased the Voidbringers off the face of Roshar or destroyed them. But that's not how humans work. We don't throw away something we can use." "We didn't destroy the voidbringers" Jasnah said from behind, her voice haunted "We enslaved them" I don't really see how it could be said that Jasnah lamented that they didn't wipe out every single one. To me she is horrified by the realization that by enslaving the parshmen, humanity has effectively signed their own death warrant by the voidbringers who had nearly wiped out humanity constantly in the past, now outnumber them 10 to 1. That the voidbringers are not an absent threat but a very real one that can happen at any time and she has no idea how to stop it. I didn't really take it as an "aw shucks that they didn't kill em all" but more a "dear god, nukes that will wipe out the planet are right beneath our feet and can be set off at anytime". But i respect that is your own interpretation.

40 lashings would require quite a bit of stormlight which is your argument towards Jasnah. An easy way to take out a shardbearer would be to soulcast the poison or caustic around them. They would end up inhaling it and or getting it in their eyes. Shardbearers cannot heal. The elsecaller just circumvented the main problem easily. Can you provide a reference on when in Dalinar's vision gravity increased several fold and crushed an enemy? I genuinely do not recall that scene. Could you provide a word, phrase, or page so I can pull it up on my kindle?

So I preface this knowing we are both on very opposite ends of our interpretations of Jasnah and Amaram. I also acknowledge our views on each are purely our own opinions at the end of the day. So please do not take this as me being critical of your opinion that you are perfectly entitled to, but as me expressing my disagreement and expressing why. I personally do not feel we need to see Amaram with more sympathy. Brandon has commented himself on how he sees Amaram in a very negative light, so it seems to me that was the authors intention. Any additional PoV time I think would have just enforced this further, so I personally do not see it as necessary. I respect that that is your reading of Jasnah, but honestly i feel completely the opposite. I feel the scenes where we really get to see what is going on in Jasnah's mind, and how she really feels shows a deeply emotional, loving, uncertain, and fearful person. She drove herself to exhaustion to research the desolations deeply scared of what she knew was coming and feeling powerless to stop it and protect her family. We have WoB that show she deeply loves her family. We have from her own PoV how much she loves her family. We see her love for Shallan when she thought she committed suicide. You are perfectly entitled to see her however you wish, but I think the peeks we have in her head show a very very different Jasnah than you posit. I have said it countless times, and I will say it again, I maintain in my opinion that the scene regarding discussing the parshendi is grossly taken out of context and paints Jasnah in a light that does not apply. I also feel there are numerous examples of her making mistakes, admitting her mistakes, learning from them, and endeavoring to do better. But at the end of the day we all come to these books with different backgrounds, different biases, and different interpretations. At the end of the day I guess all we can do is RAFO

Hmmm, maybe if I present this in the order I understood the posts to be, it will help 1. another poster stated they felt Shallan and Jasnah could handle a lot of things and would just need to be powered and protected 2. you responded (and if I take you out of context I apologize upfront) that why would that be? That there are other radiants far more powerful, Bondsmiths namely among them 3. that person, and then later myself were just pointing out why we feel those abilities of Shallan and Jasnah are powerful as well given you did in fact ask why we thought that 4. you listed your criteria of what and why you think certain powers are more powerful than others. you are perfectly entitled to your criteria, though said criteria is purely your opinion and your own way of measuring it 5. i responded as to how my criteria is different than your own, and why I see those two abilities as powerful I will need to re-read my posts and check, but i do not believe I at any point stated nor implied that those two surges were the most powerful. I just stated why I thought they were powerful. You were the one saying there was a metric of one being more so than another. One of your means of measuring was the number of deaths that could be accomplished per amount of stormlight used. If we assume the targets are normal humans and not invested (which we must if your argument is that kaladin could lash the enemy, for he could not/more difficult to lash them if they were invested, which is the same issue soulcasting directly comes into) then I have a means to kill easily 100s of enemies without breaking a sweat. It appears to me that transforming rock into air or another amorphous substance is easier than transforming air to rock or some other solid substance. If we assume that is true, then all an elscaller would have to do is allow 100s of troops to come at them. The elsecaller would then soulcast an area the size of an olympic pool, with similar depth (so about 6 or 7 feet deep) into water. The troops would then promptly fall in. We have seen jasnah quickly make subsequent soulcastings at thaylenah (oil and them flame to ignite it), so the elsecaller could quite quickly follow up with soulcasting the air directly above the water into a thin (maybe half a foot?) sheet of metal fused/connected to the ground. The troops surprised by the fall would not have a chance to take a deep gulp of air, and probably in some cases might shout in surprise expelling air before being briefly submerged. With the very air above the water being changed into metal, there would be no airpockets present. Most people in good health can hold their breath for approximately 2 minutes. That is not counting after just running in armor, and potentially expelling your air supply in surprise as you fall into the water. The elsecaller can then teleport away and do that again to another chunk of enemies, while the original group quickly expires from drowning. They would be unable to bring to fore the force necessary to break through the metal sheet despite how thin it is. If any of them have shardblades, having the metal be made of aluminum would solve that. If any had shardplate, then Kaladin would run into the same problem of being unable to lash the plate wielder, and potentially the elsecaller would have more options in dealing with a plate wielder. I have also not even gotten into the potential of if an elsecaller studies chemistry to learn about poisons, and acids, the elsecaller could literally just soulcast mustard gas, or any other horrific bioagent in a nice large cloud to hit as many enemies at once, and then soulcast it away so as to not affect the elsecaller. So my point is, it is powerful to me. You disagree and you are entitled to, but if you ask me why I think an ability is powerful, I am going to tell you lol.

Why do you assume I mean soulcasting the enemy directly? True Jasnah was empowered but she single handedly stopped a beach head in its tracks by restoring the wall. Adolin completely changed tactics on how to help the city because of it. She soulcasted the ground beneath enemies for them to fall into pits. She soulcasted the air to oil, and then soulcasted a spark to ignite it to engulf a fused. The uses don't even have to be directly lethal. Soulcasting stairs or bridges to provide means of retreat or attack. Soulcasting food to resupply troops. Soulcasting metal to outfit conscripted troops with weapons and armor. Soulcasting aluminum once it is realized it shields against surges. And that is not counting transportation. True we do not know how it looks at the micro level from a Radiant, but we do have oathgates at the macro level. Moving troops great distances instantaneously is huge in warfare. I mean feel free to make whatever criteria you wish, at the end of the day it comes down to opinion. I respect your views. I just personally think transportation and transformation is powerful when in the right hands.

Illusions and surges are made of investiture/stormlight. It is already shown that Dalinar can manipulate other Radiant's surges. This portion is conjecture, but I do not think it is a stretch to imagine Dalinar being able to transfer stormlight from radiant to radiant.

Lol but Dalinar could (forgetting the image of Dalinar kissing Renarin :::shudder:::: lol). He wouldn't even need to "kiss". He would just provide the stormlight as he did at Thaylenah edit: to add, though this portion is conjecture, what is to say that Dalinar couldn't take stormlight from one radiant and give it to another? We do not know the level of stormlight manipulation that Dalinar can do. The stormfather even said he is a binder of gods. Makes me wonder what else he can do.

She can transform anything into anything, and teleport. I think those two abilities are very powerful. We see a taste of one fully used at Thaylenah by Jasnah.

Opens up a whole new practice for therapy. Help convince the person they are not disabled, then use regrowth.

Dalinar produces stormlight and amplifies the effect of other radiant's surges despite the investiture being assigned to that radiant. Actually I have to check the scene with Shallan again because if I recall correctly he asks Shallan about areas, she gets up and walks near him, and then the illusion appears. Shallan is surprised, and Renarin says "don't look at me", so it was done without Shallan's intention. In addition the illusion is from what the stormfather sees, not from Shallan. So I would not say it was just bumping the radiant up an oath. The illusion accomplished things Shallan would never have been able to accomplish alone regardless her oath level, and Dalinar seemed to produce it by "pulling" at her. Brandon has also confirmed that the amplification functions differently for each order. edit: found the scene. got some tidbits wrong, but the main amount right. will quote and add more when I have time in a bit. edit 2: Shallan comments that she has heard of those places, but only has academic information on them. There is a map on the wall that could be said she based the illusion on, but Shallan herself comments she could not do this level of detail when she just does not possess that level of knowledge. It is then that Dalinar reasons it is what the stormfather sees from above, and that this illusion requires the both of them, unable to be attained alone. I got wrong about it not being Shallan's intention. She does draw in stormlight and release it, but she says herself "I don't know if I did anything. I couldn't have created this, Brightlord. I don't have the knowledge". Renarin confirms the stormlight came from Shallan, yet Dalinar "tugged" on her, changing what the illusion could do. The stormlight was drawn into Shallan, so was definitely assigned to her identity, yet Dalinar could change it.

Although true, Jasnah handled Ialai every time easily, and now she is Queen. Each time Ialai tried to cause a problem for Dalinar, Jasnah shut her down and "put her in her place". Personally I do not see her being much of a threat to Jasnah and Co, but I recognize that that is a personal opinion and we do not have enough information to truly rule in either direction. Also I agree it is getting off topic. So guess we will just have to RAFO!

Dalinar/Bondsmiths are potentially the exception to this rule. It is confirmed by Brandon that a power of Bondsmiths is to empower other Radiant's surges (like we saw with Shallan's illusion).

My one minor quibble here is we have from Mraize's own mouth to Shallan's ears that he has nothing to do with Ialai. He is only watching her to make sure she does not screw up their plans. Her and Sadeas were too unpredictable to work with. Now it could be said he was lying to Shallan, but personally I do not see what Mraize would have to gain from such a lie. Add to that after everything that happened in Oathbringer I do not see what Mraize would gain from allying with Ialai. So personally I do not see there being a connection between Mraize and Ialai. But I can see why you think that and respect that you feel otherwise.

No worries Personally I am not sure "cognitive anesthesia" could potentially be possible but if it were, then that would handle the big speed bump I mentioned. Personally I would still have a problem with it as I do not see an organ as "me" while I would view the spiritweb or my cognitive "self" as part of who I am, so ripping that off of me would still concern me, but that is more personal than truly ethical. For instance I would probably end up one of those old men flying on planes everywhere even though it is much slower than data teleportation (if it ever was made possible) because you could not guarantee that the me that pops up on the other end is still me and not just a copy while the original me is now dead. Rip a hole in space, and have me step through it to the other location sure, but no thank you to the data teleportation lol.

There is also the chance that Jasnah is asexual, which if that is the case then there would be ample reason for her to be uninterested and it just be because she is uninterested. One of the many theories edit @CrazyRioter lol timing

There are a whole host of theories that run the gambit, and fit for some, or don't fit for others. So if that theory works for you, I wish you luck! I have my own I cling to. The back five cannot come soon enough to find out!

Very true. The way I read it was that it was Jezerien's cognitive shadow that was sucked into the blade. I think it was sucked in as a form of investiture which is why I think Jezerin couldn't be restored. But I say this I wholly admitting that is just my own reading of it, and it could just as easy be as you say. So guess RAFO! lol

This reply is for both Invocation and Jaywalk. Thanks! I have been watching as many trailer analysis videos as I can. It looks like so far each house gets about 8 characters. I hope you are not either just limited to 8 total when you pick a house, or by picking a house it just means which 8 you get first, and then you get the other 8 from another house and then the other 8 later. It would feel like replaying would be pointless to me if that was the case. That is why I hope each house has its own autonomous path, occasionally running into each other during missions, but each house would also recruit their own unique additional characters along the way so each house would have their own full unique roster. I know it is a lot to ask for, but I am hopeful that is why they asked for extra time.

Eh, I disagree that Jezrien could come back. I take Brandon's comment of "extra killed" pretty literally. To me there is no way to get Jezerin back.

For me, I am keeping the Beyond and the Cognitive realm separate. It is possible to travel to the cognitive realm, and see a person's cognitive self when they pass. That is why the Aimian was concerned about telling the dying soulcaster anything. That even if she died, before she passed to the beyond, she could be interrogated. To me you do not have to be religious to accept the cognitive realm exists, and the cognitive self exists. For me it would be the same if humanity on earth found a way to download the human consciousness onto a computer and allow it to live on. If during that download, you want to take some memories for record keeping lets say, and resulting from that process the consciousness transferred to the computer ends up distorted and in pain, then I would consider that unethical. No religion involved. Personally I am not speaking of the after life. I am speaking of a location (the cognitive realm) that can be visited, and a state of being (the cognitive self) that can be observed. At that state, that can be observed, the person's cognitive self is irrevocably damaged. That individual has a moment of existence that is pain and horror that to me can not be dismissed. That to me is unethical. Whatever happens when they go to the beyond is immaterial to me. This for me falls under the person waking up during surgery and feelings everything, and then passing away. First they are anesthetized and feel nothing, then they feel pain and horror, then they no longer exist. If you cannot remove the pain and horror portion, then I do not think it is ethical. edit: Basically I am trying to say the cognitive self that shows up in the cognitive realm before transition to the beyond is still a person to me, and if that person is subjected to pain and horror prior to transitioning to the Beyond (regardless what the beyond may be), then you have a person experiencing pain and horror. Just because it is not evident on the physical realm, with the physical body, does not negate that it is evident on the cognitive realm, with the cognitive body.

Jasnah rocking transformation at the battle of Thaylenah!

Oh believe me, I am chomping at the bit to learn the Elsecaller oaths lol