Pathfinder

There is also a WoB that confirms the nahel bond provides some insulation protecting the radiant from the negative effects of over soulcasting. It could still potentially happen to the radiant, but you would have to be soulcasting a whole long, very very often (or at least that portion is implied). Will dig and try to pull it up for reference.

I gotcha. Don't have much further to add here. Thank you for taking the time to explain your perspective further. Do you feel Odium invested in Sel in order to shatter both Aona and Skai? Or are you saying he did not need to invest because he pit them against each other, so they were caught unawares? Just asking for clarification. I have to check, but isn't part of the limitation on Not saying I disagree with your assertions, but just potentially adding additional information.

And this was Jasnah's response/rationale to that info dump (for some reason I cannot unbold the quote, so I changed the color of the portion I wished to highlight) "The Stormfather laid it out" Jasnah said unperturbed “The Heralds made a pact. When they died, their souls traveled to Damnation and trapped the spirits of the Voidbringers, preventing them from returning. The Stormfather said their pact was weakened, but did not say it was destroyed” Jasnah said “I suggest we at least see if one of them is willing to return to Damnation. Perhaps they can still prevent the spirits of the enemy from being reborn."

I feel that more proves she was feared in particular due to the level of response (full radiant and squires), but does not tell us the why she was so feared.

Hey, just had a random thought. What if what Adolin is doing could be considered savantism for a shardblade bond? We have seen mistings, as well as soulcasters getting more than average out of their powers through repeated use and focus. Adolin does summon and unsummon Maya as a nervous habit and he has heavily practiced throwing the blade and other means of using it. This still runs into the issue of why hasn't anyone else done so before, but just a thought I had.

Ok, any theories on why the 10 heartbeats for dead shardblades would have been a necessity while Honor was alive? Genuinely asking, not presenting as a counter argument This is verifiably incorrect. Tanavast was still "alive" during the Recreance. He saw it happen. That is why it was included in the visions. WoB are very clear on that. He literally watched all those windrunners and stonewards break their oaths. So there would be plenty of dead shardblades around before Honor's death edit: upon re-reading i noticed you said "and the recreance". I apologize I mis-read your post. I have kept the original as reference. And I have seen nothing explain why shardblades have to be summoned in ten heartbeats to begin with. Do you have anything concrete or WoB to confirm the reason why to conclusively say it cannot potentially be perception as insert anagram posits? Can you present concrete evidence that 10 heartbeats is one of those hard limits? Is it though? We can take the comments in consideration, but given the unreliability of a spren's knowledge/recollection, it should be all treated as suspect till proven otherwise. I have responded to your response in blue to better reply to each point you made. I think the implications if she is revived would be great because (according to my theory) it could mean the rest of the deadeyes could be revived, and forgiveness could be forged. That not only the bond itself could be healed, but so too the rift between spren and man. Got nothing to add here. It is what works for you, and you see it as a beautiful moment for Adolin. More power to you. Nothing to add here. I am interested in learning more about your theory, and thank you for answering my question! Except in that very WoB, as well as the WoB regarding oathgates Brandon admits he is playing fast and loose with speed of light, and he is have trouble reconsiling what he wants to do vs the actual technicalities of it. Very similar to his issue with speed bubbles and red shift. So I believe it is too early to discount something because of a mention of "speed of light" especially by his own words he said he was playing around with it. You take the WoB out of context. The full sentence is: "So you're like "that's weird that felt like not ten heartbeats, it felt like twelve. But it's like, you're on another planet, then it's suddenly speed of light type stuff. So suddenly its like this is taking three years instead. thats a pretty big deal! So I've got a few weird speed of light things mixed into the cosmere, and that's one of them." He states there is a difference of 12 heartbeats on the current planet. It is when you get off planet it becomes 3 years because it is then suddenly speed of light stuff. What is confirmed: summoning time is attributed to reviving the spren (as per Brandons own words) what is not confirmed: the distance is irrelevant under normal circumstances It does not clearly state that. Please refer to my earlier post. I do not see it stated anywhere in that WoB about low orbit. Could you point that out to me? it is not a few feet to me when the realms are brought together. So it is not peanuts to me. Though I respect that you would interpret that differently. Already covered this in an earlier response. please refer to that response. Can I just state something to everyone in general? Disagreeing on theories, and having theories of your own is not intrinsically saying other theories are wrong. This is not an "us" vs "them" scenario. People can interpret things differently, and derive differing theories without negating another's experience. That is just my own two cents on this whole thing. Brandon has said regarding the instantaneous travel regarding Oathgates runs into problems regarding the speed of light.That he would like it to function via the spiritual realm, which is all places and all times at once, but Peter would have a problem with it because of the speed of light so he is still working on reconciling the two to figure out how he wants to handle it.

Dropping in briefly, and will contribute better later when I have more time, but I feel like I recall in the prose (I have spoilered because I cannot recall the forum rules if it was changed that you can discuss the prose in either thread yet or not) But I am going on recollection so I will need to dig and check the prose again to be sure

That does make me wonder how would the spren act/react to two radiants of the same order fighting, or even coming to blows? It greatly disturbed Syl to be used to stab and "kill" the spren tormenting Gavinor. Would it disturb/upset them to strike blows at another radiant, or even potentially kill another radiant?

Hmmmm if it is regarding sequences, could the ten planet orbits ordered sequentially away from the sun count? edit: to add, the heralds are each ascribed a number, or a number is named after them, whichever that may be. Could the number in that case have to do with the sequential order of them agreeing to the oathpact? Are there any theories on that on the 17th shard?

Hmmm, so that possibly being a piece of information confused or lost over time. Ehhh I feel like that is a stretch but I do no have anything conclusive to back that up. As to Honor's death playing into it, not sure how Honor dying would result in removing a limit on shardblades when his death seems to limit honorblades more. The 10 essences is an interesting thought! Let me know know when you have further developed your theory on that. I would be interested in reading it! Lol great minds think alike. I inquired that above. Though I would add as per WoB, learning about summoning shardblades was stumbled upon by accident. The gemstone was treated as just ornamentation originally, and because shardblades were easy to steal, it became practice to keep them around/on you at all times, which would lead to the bond occurring by happen stance. I think 10 could potentially come out of the cultures belief structure seeing 10 as important (ten radiants, or as @insert_anagram_here mentioned 10 essences) so maybe they connected the shardblades to the radiants and unconsciously connected 10? I agree the 10 connection is pretty loose though. Do you have any ideas on why the 10 heart beats could have been a thing based on perception? Try to reason a way it could work?

Ah, gotcha. So then the order would be: 1. Dalinar brought realms together 2. super charged adhesion area of effect 3. Adolin hears Maya's name 4. Adolin wills her to summon faster Ok, interesting theory. Did you see my follow up question about how you think 10 heartbeats became a thing to begin with? When normal people started to figure out how to bond dead shardblades originally. I could see how 10 being a big thing in their culture could play into that. I was wondering if that was your line of thinking as well, or you had an alternative explanation in line with your theory.

Interesting. I am inclined to agree. Was just checking I understood what Calderis was saying correctly. The WoB regarding Skybreakers disagreeing with each other would potentially support that. I can post it for reference if you like.

Hmmm, interesting. So what you are saying is you think that since for Szeth, thinking an honorblade could only be summoned in 10 heart beats limited the honorblade to being summoned in 10 heartbeats to him even though we know it could be summoned sooner, that that could work in reverse resulting in a shardblade being summoned sooner based on belief. That by Adolin hearing Maya's name, Adolin then believed she was something more, like a living spren, and thereby believed she could come sooner, and that is how he was able to will her to come sooner. If I understood what you said correctly, interesting points. Not sure I agree, but I see what you are going for. Hmmm, need to think on this more, will follow up with my thoughts once I form them up better edit: ok I came up with a follow up question. So if what you are saying is the heartbeat number is based on perception, and what the user expects to happen, then how do you explain the 10 heartbeats being a thing to begin with? Is it 10 because the wielders at the time felt 10 was an important number due to the radiants, so that kind of bled into it naturally? Or do you have a separate idea?

Just a side point about this, (if I misunderstood I apologize in advance), but don't we know that since a shards power is all places and all times in the spiritual realm, there isn't so much a sense of movement, and communication could easily happen between two shards voluntarily without removing ones power from a planet? Also don't we have a very confusingly worded WoB that implies Autonomy is reached out to her power on other planets once she becomes aware of such a power and that is how she is creating her avatars? (not saying I fully understand the mechanism on how the avatars come to be, just that the WoB seems to state a shard does not have to leave their planet to access "their" power elsewhere. If I am in complete error, I look forward to hearing the correct information and learning something new)

So you stated that it is meaningful to each Radiant in a different way and that potentially Kaladin could live it one way that could view Adolin's actions as violating it, while an elsecaller could live it a different way and view Adolin's actions as not violating it. Genuine question, do you feel if hypothetically Adolin's actions violate the first oath in the way Lift (an edgedancer) lives it, would that preclude him from becoming an edgedancer? Or could another edgedancer potentially live the first oath a different way from Lift, so then that view on the first oath wouldn't be violated by Adolin's actions?

No problemo, to clarify. You as well as others posited that if the need alone on part of Adolin is what resulted in Maya being summoned faster, than why not when every other shardbearer ever not experience the same thing? Surely they have been in situations of need. I, taking in that information, expanded the concept of the realms becoming closer to include this. I suggested that possibly there was a change in speed normally when great need occurs, just as the WoB says and we agree, the change would be so neglible to go unnoticed. That is why I used the example of the ice cube in a room just above freezing. The ice cube would melt, but would be so slight that it would be unable to be observed with the naked eye unless over a very long period of time. A period of time that a shardbearer in need would not have, nor have the tools at the time to measure. However, if we raise that temperature a bit more, suddenly that melting, that was there before but we just couldn't see, now is apparent. That would then jive with why Adolin was unable to shorten the time summoning in the first two instances while the realm was closer, but was able to the third time. The need potentially always reduced the time to summon, but when the realms were brought together it was just more noticeable in that case. Now to be clear, that is not my own theory. My point is again, we could potentially explain the occurrence with another mechanism. That is how science works. You posit a theory. You then run a test that confirms the theory. I then see if I can run that test to produce the same results. If I can produce the same results by another means, or cannot reproduce the same results using your means, then the question becomes what is different. Did the test really prove your theory? Or was it due to something outside your theory that was not accounted for? So I read your post and the WoB, and honestly I feel they actually support my theory more than disprove anything. So I will rehash the bullet points of my own theory below, and then go into why I feel those WoB strengthen my theory. I will list the process as assertions, but keep in mind every step is theoretical. 1. Adolin forms a bond with Maya via an infused gemstone and spending a week or so with her 2. Adolin living the edgedancer qualities, acting honorably, and treating Maya with respect strengthens his Connection with her 3. This strengthened Connection allows her to over time respond more than usual, and summon sooner 4. A bondsmith (considering they can manipulate other radiant's investiture by supercharging their abilties), using the scaffolding that the increased Connection provides, supercharges the bond with investiture, regrowing what is lost, and restores Maya. Now to discuss the WoB you included. I have posted them below, highlighting what I feel is the pertinent parts, and then will comment on each in blue Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] So, is it possible for a spren to get more Investiture? And if it does, will it kinda level up into a higher form of spren? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yeah, it's possible. That is totally possible. I think that is pretty self explanatory, but all the same I interpret that to say that an increase in investiture does have an effect on spren. That if you could theoretically feed a (by implication) lower spren more investiture and "level" it up to a higher spren, then I think it is most certainly possible to use investiture to heal what was torn out of a dead spren. But that is my own reading of it. Questioner Spren. The phenomenon that creates spren. Is that Roshar-specific or is that a general effect? Brandon Sanderson Well, yes and no. So the question is, the effect that creates spren, is that Roshar-specific or is it general. The general fundamental rules that create spren are cosmere-wide. Spren are pieces of Investiture, usually pieces of Investiture that come straight from one of the Shards of Adonalsium, split off in some way, that because of human or other sapient creatures thinking about it or interacting with the power, the power starts to take on a life of its own. Develops personalities and comes alive, so to speak. And this can happen on any pla-- in any place where there is Investiture. So it could happen on any planet in the cosmere with significant amounts of free Investiture. The places you've seen this happen most commonly are on Sel and Scadri-- err Roshar. You haven't seen it on Scadrial, and you've seen little kind of hints at it on Nalthis, but not quite. And so-- But it's possible for it to happen anywhere. Seons and spren are basically the same thing with different powers-- powers kind of pushing them in different-- growth out of them-- That said, the non-sapient spren, so the spren that are not quite as-- They're not going to stand up and talk to you. Those all existed-- not all, but most of them existed on Roshar before the Shattering of Adonalsium. So for the same reason for the first WoB, I feel confirming that spren are investiture does nothing to dispute my theory. If anything it supports that additional investiture could potentially heal what was ripped out of them. I would also add that in my opinion, Bondsmiths can jump the hurtle of assigned investiture. Bondsmiths can supercharge other radiants abilities, even though those are the surges of those radiants and we have been told that a radiant cannot use a surge on another radiant that is using a surge because investiture interferes with investiture. Shallan's illusions are hers, yet Dalinar can manipulate them. So too can Hoid, but we are specifically told that that is a power of the bondsmiths, so Hoid in that case is just being Hoid lol. Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW] As the two Realms, the Cognitive and the Spiritual, are, well, fictional... Are they all comprised of Investiture, completely? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. No, completely? Well, here's the thing. Investiture, matter, and energy are all the same thing in the cosmere. So, just like energy and matter are the same thing here. So, yes, everything's made of Investiture, in the same way that everything's made of energy in our world. Does that make sense? Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW] So, what about what spren are made of in the Cognitive Realm? Is that just Investiture? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] So, yeah, I'll dig more into that. I'm gonna go with Investiture for now, but I could change that as I move along. What I'm kind of debating is, is there a separate Cognitive state, and I don't think so. So I'm gonna go with Investiture for now. Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW] How about Connection? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Connection is, like, the equivalent of a quantum connection in our world, so it's more like a force than something comprised of something. The question is like, "What is gravity comprised of?" And then you start asking weird questions. Nothing really needing to bold. To clarify, to me, I feel there is the faux bond, and then there is the Connection between the shardbearer and the dead spren. In my opinion the faux bond is formed when the infused gemstone is placed in the blade, and the connection is formed when they keep the blade around them non-stop during the week. If the gemstone is removed, the blade no longer can be summoned, but the bond+Connection is still present. But without the gemstone it cannot function. You cannot summon the blade. In my opinion, it is the increase of Connection that is insulating the bond further, which is why you get more out of it. In my opinion, the bond itself wasn't rebuilt, or healed. It is like taking electric wires, tying them directly together and putting some electrical tape around it. Could the tape wear away? Yep. If there was a power surge could it potentially cause a fire because of improper insulation? Yep. So you are not going to get the full effect you would have from a properly installed connection, but you might get a little more juice out of it than you would without the insulation. That is what i feel is happening with dead shardblades and Adolin. The bondsmith stepping in with the infusion of investiture, coupled with the guide of the strengthened connection would rebuild/restore what was torn out of Maya, allowing a true radiant bond to occur. So I personally do not feel those WoB disproved anything in my theory. You are of course entitled to interpret them differently, and I wish you luck with your theory!

We know that now, but from Sja-anat's own mouth as well as the Hessi's Mythica imply she has never corrupted spren higher than base spren before. Basically Sja-anat corrupting Glys is a new thing. This theory is trying to figure out why the Radiants would be afraid of her back then presumably before she has ever tried to corrupt a higher spren. So if back then she could presumably corrupt only lesser spren, then why would a radiant especially fear her as per Hessi's Mythica? That is the question this theory is trying to answer. Just because we have not seen it happen on screen does not mean it has not happened. All we have seen of Re-shephir is a couple of midnight essences that normal troops could hold off. Dalinar could, with training, hold off multiple ones, and a small group of normal soldiers were able to hold off a larger group of them in her direct presence. Going purely on that, she would not be much of a threat to Radiants, and definitely not much of a threat to a Herald. Yet we are given a hint by Shallan that Re-shephir is missing something, which could hint at a weakness which is why she was not as deadly as she could be. We do not know what other things Sja-anat could be capable of, so although that does not mean we could come up with made up abilities, at the same time, we cannot discount possibilities out of hand just because we have not seen it done on screen. So I think it is a very interesting thought that Sja-anat could potentially use lesser spren in the manner that they would manifest as a fabrial. That would be scary to me, and could validate a greater than normal fear of her in particular.

No problemo, and also Rock noticed the honorspren arriving from the distance. However, just because they can arrive, doesn't mean some could not already be present. Basically it is the difference between swimming with a few sharks, and then putting blood in the water and now you get 10 times that. To add to my theory, (with nothing to base it on, just me spitballing) but potentially I would say radiants have a higher likelihood of naturally having a certain type of spren hanging around them. Think of it like with dogs. Dogs may be friendly with a bunch of people, but if they learn to associate one person in particular being the one to feed them and give them treats, whether food is present or not, they are more inclined to hang around that person based on the expectation or hope of being fed. So too, to me, with spren. I believe the idea is that they are inextricably linked. I do not immediately have anything on hand to back this up, but I feel like I read somewhere with at least with Roshar, there is a reason why that is more ambiguous. But I will concede till I find something more concrete than vague memory. Great discussion!

So to clarify my statement on "leaking". This was in reference to using hemalurgy to steal a dead shardblade bond. Inherent to ruin, and hemalurgic spikes is a "loss" of power, a decay. I took the way Brandon responded to mean that the spike would "leak"/decay in power, or lose investiture which is the nature of hemalurgic spikes. I then extrapolated that if the leak of power would slow down the summoning of the blade, then investiture would play a role in summoning of a dead spren over all. So my comment was not to say the spren would "leak". It is the spike that is "leaking", and since a spike steals investiture in various forms (spirit web associated traits), then the leaking to me would be leaking investiture. By extension if the spike leaking investiture would result in the summoning of the dead spren taking longer, then I theorize that a greater amount of investiture could potentially make the summoning come faster, or even restore the spren to life. Hopefully that clarified matters. edit: i would also like to add, that it is my interpretation of this WoB, that causes me to believe the dead spren are in fact damaged and missing something. But understandably there are multiple interpretations (Calderis's theory foremost among them) that disagree. I have bolded what I consider the pertinent parts below Jerich Is the Hoed from Elantris similar to the state of [dead] Shardblades? If so is it possible to awaken a Shardblade if the bearer speaks the oaths of the Knights Radiant? Brandon Sanderson The status is... I would say not as similar as you're probably thinking, but it does have a similarity in that two bacteria causing a disease are both caused by a bacteria, so there is a similarity there. I can imagine a sequence where a Shardblade would be reawakened, but I think it would be very difficult. It's not the same that they're in the middle of a transition, like in Elantris. Jerich Oh, okay. So you have to actually... it'd be harder. Brandon Sanderson It'd be harder, yeah. It's not the same, they're not in the middle of a transition. They have had something ripped from them, and it's very painful and it's left them mostly mindless. Jerich So they have to have that something added back? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. So what you've got going on: the spren gain-- the bond lets them have sentience in the physical plane, like they can think and all these things, and when that was ripped away from them-- imagine... (this is a very bad metaphor, it's the first one coming to my head though): imagine you had wetwear, you had a head-jack or something like that, and someone just ripped it out of your head. Jerich *stunned/horrified* Oh. Brandon Sanderson Instead of surgically operating it out. Like that's what's happened, a piece of their soul's been ripped off.

And yet that is a philosophical question argued in the books with no clear answer. We know in the real world that bacteria causes wounds to fester, but on Roshar where perception does matter, Syl cannot even answer which comes first, the spren doing the effect, or the effect creating the spren. So it is not so clear cut. When spren come attracted to something (emotion, etc), they "appear" as if out of no where. Brandon confirmed via WoB, they do hang around, and tend to hang around heavily human populated areas. As to windspren following Kaladin you kind of answered the question for me. Windspren are not always visible. Kaladin who thought Syl was a common windspren thought it was perfectly natural that no one else could see her "tormenting" him. So windspren could fill every inch of the air on the physical realm, but only "show" themselves when something attracts them.

Well we have seen kaladin seemingly summon windspren in the cognitive realm where they rarely go, as well as Shallan seemingly summon creation spren miles underground in Kharbrant, so I do not think that is a stretch. Elhokar commented on how glory spren always seem to hang out around Dalinar. I think the action taken makes them show up in the physical, but I posit they are always present or near by a radiant. So creation spren tend to hang out near a lightweaver, but will only show themselves when a lightweaver does something creative. So they are always available to form the plate. But that is just conjecture on my part. Thing is, think of it like this. You summoned your plate outside her range. You then fight a monster, and it does damage. Some of your blade is broke. Plate heals right? My theory posits the plate forms/heals from lesser spren. So now as your plate heals by adding new lesser spren, those are already corrupted by Sja-anat, so either the plate then can't heal, or now the plate is corrupted with the corrupted lesser spren, which brings us back to the original big fear. Being vulnerable or having your plate work against you. Interesting thoughts! Well the whole chicken and the egg could be argued here. When Kaladin uses the adhesion surge, and then looks closely at the rock he stuck to the wall, he sees purple like spren. He speaks to Syl about it, and they ask are the spren sticking the stone to the wall, or are they attracted to the effect that sticks the rock to the wall? If I recall correctly, they didn't have an answer. Just like flame spren. Do flame spren cause fire, or does fire cause flame spren? Do rot spren cause rot, or are they attracted to it?

So I have a lot to catch up on, and am going to do my best to try and make this as coherent as possible. The first portion will be a direct response to @Calderis in the same format as before so I may respond to each point without having to try to multiple quote him and separate them, and well make a mess lol. Then I will follow up with direct quotes to individuals that have responded further while I was away. There, now that the process has been established, to begin! I'm saying that with it being based on the speed of light, any difference in time frame on the world of Roshar would be minute enough to not be noticeable. As far as my consistency comment that was in regards to the 7 heartbeats during the perpendicularity, in which case all three times Adolin summoned his blade should have been at the 7 heartbeats, not just the last. I apologize for the confusion, I made an argument about how the perpendicularity was not to blame for this, and I understood your responses as saying it was a part of it. I understand, and agree it would not be noticeable, but with the correct tools (which I acknowledge at this stage in their technological advancements they do not have), it can be measured. It the measurement only becomes noticeable in such an extreme situation such going to an entirely different planet for distance. Such a distance would result in 3 years passing before the blade would appear. We are talking about 3 heart beats worth of speed increase. I maintain that it is a reasonable possibility that the realms being brought closer together could potentially decrease this "distance" and result in Maya coming sooner. Now the point of me pointing that out, is to show Maya being summoned under 10 heartbeats could potentially be attributed to something other than healing. Which is why "Maya is healing" is a supposition. Now also to clarify, I did not type that to beat a dead horse, but to clarify the entire purpose of me starting this discussion with you to begin with. I am not the verbal police. I am not here to tell you how you are allowed to talk. All I am doing is calling attention to how the language chosen is read. Maya healing is a theory. One you have worked hard on, and researched and I genuinely and truly wish you luck with it. But is still a theory. And I do not label it as such in a derogatory manner, nor to belittle the work you did in coming to its conclusion, but to label it accurately. No problem on the confusion, it happens. On 2/8/2019 at 9:29 PM, Pathfinder said: It's not quite that explicit, but here you go. Quote Questioner Why does the Shardbearer-- when they are dueling with Adolin and Renarin-- Why does the Shardbearer freak out when Kaladin grabs the sword? The <Shardbearer> like... He screams, and he's like, "I didn't kill you", and ran away. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Why does he do that? Brandon Sanderson Because when Kaladin was there, and they were touching it, they actually heard the spren that was inside of it. Right? Because when an-- Questioner So it wasn't Syl that he heard, it was the sword. Brandon Sanderson It was the sword's spren... that Kaladin was touching it. When the Knight Radiant touches it-- You can see when other Knights Radiant pick up swords, they can hear the screaming. Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014) Radiants hear the spren, and as Relis shows, anyone bonded to the blade when they touch it will as well. And I completely agree with all of that, but with all due respect that is not what you stated, or you misunderstood my own statement. Yes when Relis (when Kaladin touched the blade, and Dalinar (a bonded radiant), and Renarin (a bonded radiant) touched a dead shardblade they heard screaming. The difference between the three is while Relis heard it yell "I didn't kill you!" (which as we know Relis did not in fact kill his shardblade), Kaladin just heard screaming, and we are given the implication that Renarin only hears screaming, Dalinar on the other hand heard whimpering that the Stormfather translated into remembering the oaths you had made and broken, and so it hates you less than it hates most. Now that is not an exact quote, but if you would like for reference I will be happy to follow up with it. With Relis, the blade is just remembering the pain of its dead and screaming. Kaladin only hears screaming. Renarin (I believe) would hear only screaming. Dalinar on the other hand, he is remembered. The stormfather says it is actively hating him less. That denotes to me a greater degree of recognition wouldn't you say when compared to Relis? A degree of recognition I think we begin to see too with Maya. The shardbearer is potentially going from just the possessor of the blade, to an identified individual by the dead spren. So I still maintain that I think what happened between Dalinar and Oathbringer, is similar to what is happening with Maya and Adolin. The difference is that the Radiant is not bonding the spren of that blade. The spren needs a bond to revive, in my opinion. A resonant effect with a similar type of Connection does not grant them that Connection no matter how long it's present. They need a bond of their own, which is what Adolin is providing. See that is where this discussion took an interesting turn for me. When we refer to the WoB where Sanderson discusses what happens when a shardblade is summoned, he says the reason for the ten heartbeats is that is how long it takes to revive the spren. Revive is the word he chose to use. How does an average person bond a dead shardblade? They use a gemstone with stormlight and keep the blade with them for about a week or so (I cannot recall off the top of my head the exact duration). After that the gemstone is no longer needed, it is purely ornamentation. However, you can walk around with the dead shardblade as long as you want, but without the gemstone (from what we are told), no bond will form. That reads to me, that the investiture in the gemstone in the form of stormlight, helps fuel/build the Connection between the person and the blade. That allows the person to now summon and dismiss it. The connection would not have formed if the person did not spend every moment with that blade, regardless of the stormlight charged gemstone. It maintains in the book that the bond requires constant presence with the blade during that time for it to form. That, to me, adds to my theory that by strengthening the Connection of the faux bond with Maya, coupled with a greater infusion of investiture which could only be supercharged by a bondsmith, would rebuild the bond allowing for a true living spren bond. So basically I posit and maintain that I think in order to revive Maya, they need to build on the process that in my opinion began it. On 2/8/2019 at 9:29 PM, Pathfinder said: So now you are saying the reason the blade is reviving is because he spoke to it in person? How does that not negate all the time he spent speaking to it and acting honorably before hand? If he never ended up in the cognitive realm, are you saying he would have never been able to revive Maya? For me that sounds more far fetched. The shear chances that Adolin would end up in the right place at the right time and act the right way during that time to result in Maya starting to awaken is a bit much to me. But that is why it doesn’t sit right for me. I readily realize and respect it could work for you. Please confirm that is what you meant by that statement as well. It's not one or the other, it's both. The level of respect and reverence with which he treats his blade before Shadesmar were seemingly unique. Then he sees her in Shadesmar, overcomes his initial reaction to her, and still treats her as not only a tool, but a friend. Yes, it is remarkably remote chances, which is exactly why it hasn't happened before, and why it's viewed as an impossibility in world. I guess what I was asking is, are you positing that had Adolin not gone into the cognitive realm (which lead to as you said him talking to Maya and seeing her as a person), Maya would not have come in less heartbeats, spoke her name, and etc? Or to put it another way, do you feel had Adolin not gone to the cognitive realm, but still on his own came to view Maya as a person and treat her as such, she would not have come in less heart beats, spoke her name, and etc? So after typing my response to @Calderis I attempted to multi quote and it ended up putting all of them up top screwing up my formatting, so I will make a separate post and hope an understanding Moderator will very nicely combine them at a later time. Thank you in advance! So I quoted a bunch of people but my response is for all of them. Technically we have seen a difference in summoning when there is a need. When you are in danger, or anxious or what have you, what happens to your body? Your heart rate increases. What do we know happens when you summon a blade? It comes in ten heartbeats. As in the exact number. Not a time frame, a count. If your heart beats 10 times in 10 seconds (just throwing numbers out arbitrarily to illustrate a point), then the blade comes in 10 seconds. If your heart beats 10 times in 5 seconds, then the blade comes sooner in 5 seconds. The need is greater, and as result of your emotions or exertion your heart rate increases, leading to you summoning your blade faster. Even then, as per the WoB which I will post below for everyone's reference, the need could have resulted in a faster summons (lesser number of heartbeats), just until that point the difference was so tiny (let us say a tenth of a heart beat sooner) as to be unnoticed but not incalculable. Once the realms were brought closer together, potentially because of the distance decrease, the decrease in time was then noticed. edit: gotta run for a sec. when i get back i will add the WoB So while I was pulling up that WoB, I actually found a bunch more that are very interesting and I feel is pertinent to this thread. Shown all below, and bolded the parts I think are pertinent Edit2: now that I have a chance, I will add in blue my thoughts on each of the WoB I posted. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Is there any effect on a Shardblade if the deadeye is really far away from where the Blade is? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Define really. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] The one that's trapped on the ship. Let's say they're taking him to the far side of Shadesmar, but the dude that owns that Blade lives in <inaudible>. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] We will deal with that in the books. There is an effect, but that's not enough of an effect. Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] Considering no one says that their Shardblade is acting weird in two and a half thousand years. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] That happens all the time in Shadesmar. If you were able to get it off the planet, it would have an effect. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] If you as the owner of the Shardblade were offworld and you tried to summon it, that would be the effect? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Either way. But you can't take spren off-world. I mean, you can, but you can't really. Really all that I have in the notes for it to do right now, is to add slightly more time. So you're like, "That's weird that felt like not ten heartbeats, it felt like twelve." But it's like, you're on another planet, then it's suddenly speed of light type stuff. So suddenly it's like, "This is taking three years instead. That's a pretty big deal!" So I've got a few weird speed of light things mixed into the cosmere, and that's one of them So the above reads to me that there is an effect based on distance, just normally it is so small as to go unnoticed for the most part. However, just because it has not been noticed before, does not mean it never occurred before. By the realms being closer together, that was the little bit of extra closeness that the change was more noticeable. So it would be like taking an ice cube, and leaving it in a room that is slightly above freezing. It would melt, but you would need to watch it with a speed time elapsed camera to see the change over time. Meanwhile put it in a room that is a few more degrees above freezing, and the melting becomes more apparent. Phantine Silly shardblade question: Dick Cheney's artificial heart was a continuous flow model, which meant he had no pulse. If you gave him a shardblade, how would summoning it work? Brandon Sanderson You know, I've actually had to think about this. (Not because of Cheney, but because of cosmere applications.) Just as blind people dream differently from people without visuals, I feel a shardbearer without a pulse would end up having another method of representing the way their soul reaches toward a dead shardblade and summons it. But it would vary based on the individual The big take away for this one for me is the "their soul reaches toward a dead shardblade and summons it". I think that could come into play with a whole host of theories. From those that posit Adolin would be filling Maya's cracks instead, to the theories that say she is healing, and those that say she is not. Not saying this WoB proves or disproves any of those theories. I just think all of the theories could find something in this WoB to add to their own. Kaladin al'Thor I noticed my last time reading Words of Radiance that there were several times-- vines that were on Adolin's shardblade as he summoned it. So I was wondering if maybe the Radiant who used it had was an Edgedancer? Brandon Sanderson You are right. Kaladin al'Thor You mentioned before that it would be possible to revive a dead shard[blade], but it would be very difficult-- Brandon Sanderson Very difficult. Kaladin al'Thor Like I think what you said is that it would have to be the same person that broke the bond? Brandon Sanderson That would be the-- Yeah. Kaladin al'Thor So if it was an Edgedancer's blade if he made those same oaths could potentially he… Brandon Sanderson That would most likely not be enough. Something else would have to happen. Good guess though. So I am open to disagreement and would love to hear the responses, but is it safe to say this is pretty cut and dry that making the oaths alone would not be enough to revive Maya? Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] If you Hemalurgically steal a Shardblade, what <entropy takes place>? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Like, if you were going to steal someone's Connection to that Shardblade? Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] The bond with the Shardblade. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The bond with the Shardblade? Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Would it take longer to summon? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Well, no, you just wouldn't summon it anymore, the person who got it Hemalurgically would summon it. That would be kind of a wasted use, to get a dead Shardblade. Lot easier ways to do that. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] I was just wondering if it would take longer to summon if somebody used Hemalurgy to steal it. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Oh, yeah, there's a little bit of leak to it, so probably. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] It wouldn't make sense for it to be less sharp. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No. The big take away for me on this one is the "there's a little bit of a leak to it, so probably". Basically a shardblade would potentially take longer to summon because hemalurgy is leaky with investiture. That is poignant to me, because I think that leans towards investiture is needed to bring a dead spren back. if investiture leaking slows it, then an increase investiture could potentially speed it up, or even restore it. At least that is how I read that one.

@Calderis Maya summoned in under the normal 10 heartbeats. We have a WoB that the further away you are from the spren in the cognitive realm, the longer it takes to summon it via heartbeats. The example given was going off planet, since a dead spren could not follow in that case, and the distance would result in a few heartbeat difference. To me if a heartbeat difference could be seen when you are further away from a spren, then theoretically a heartbeat difference could be seen if you are closer to the spren. The realms were brought together when Adolin summoned Maya in 7 heartbeats, so theoretically they were closer then. Also when Adolin was first in the cognitive realm, he goes to summon his shardblade. Maya immediately looks at him, raises her hand, and begins to scream. He is the closest to her he could possibly be, and when he goes to summon her, she responds immediately. Does that mean she healed a whole bunch then? The heartbeats are down to 0. So if reducing the heartbeats to summon a shardblade means she is healing, then why did she go to needing 0 heartbeats then, but go back to needing more when he came out into the physical realm? You do not think that response works. Fine, I respect that, but it still is a valid point, and one that can exist without Maya healing. Except if it were the distance mechanic, which is based of of the speed of light, then the ten heartbeat limit should be beaten regularly, and as I said above, if it were a result of the perpendicularity it should have been consistent. Instead it was shown to happen at a time of need, as if it were a result of a choice and effort on Maya's part. And as seen with Syl and pattern, a shardblade can't be summoned in the Cognitive Realm, so that line of reason bears no weight. So first, whew today was a long day. Finally caught up, and now I can respond! For my own ease of response, I will bold and blue my responses so I can go point by point. I know I could attempt to quote your post multiple times, but frankly this is just easier for me. Hopefully it posts nicely, and is readily readable. Now to begin. I need a little clarity on this statement. Are you saying that the ten heart beat limit would be beaten in that it should take longer all the time, or that because it is based on the speed of light then there would be no variation in heartbeats? If it is the former, then my response is the only spren we know of that is not right by its shardbearer is Ico’s father. He locked him away so he wouldn’t wander off to be by its shardbearer like he said all dead spren do. So since we know for a fact all dead spren do all they can to be by where their bonded shardbearer is, then it is not a stretch that normally we would not see a difference until something unique happens, such as going to another planet where a dead spren cannot follow, or bringing the realms closer together. Brandon said being further away where Ico’s father is trapped would be an effect but not that much of an effect. For all we know that could be a half a heart beat longer which isn’t noticeable. Until of course something bigger happens, like for instance going to another planet, which the difference would be so vastly noticeable because it would be so dramatic to take three years. If your statement is regarding the latter, then I refer once more to the WoB where Brandon clearly states a time difference would occur based on distance. Now as an aside, you seem to be continually misunderstanding this. I have two separate arguments. One is where I present why YOUR (capitalized not because of yelling, but because trying to call attention to, but since I have bolded all of my comments and blued it to denote response for ease of break down, I need another means to show emphasis) theory does not work for me, providing reasons that break the line of causation your theory is based on which leads me to not prescribe to it. Separate from that is my own theory. My own theory does not maintain that the perpendicularity is the reason for Maya responding. My own theory postulates that Maya’s response is due to Adolin strengthening his Connection to her in the faux bond. However, the point I made about distance would dispute my claim just as much as it disputes yours. I cannot conclusively prove that my theory regarding Connection being the cause of Maya’s response is the more accurate one, because there exists other perfectly valid rationales that counter it. Which is why at this point it becomes more a Read and Find Out, but fun to postulate about till then. That is why when I responded listing the reasons your theory doesn’t work for me, I made sure to make clear I was doing it to illustrate, not attack. Your theory has excellent points. Just they are not conclusive, and I feel there are enough questions that my theory fits more for me 9 hours ago, Pathfinder said: Maya communicates her name to Adolin. Dalinar hears oathbringer whimper instead of scream. The stormfather says it is because oathbringer remembers the oaths Dalinar made and broke so it hates him less. One could reply well Dalinar hears it because he is a radiant. But the supposition says Maya communicating with Adolin shows healing because it is a sign of improvement. That improvement is the product of the bond between Adolin and Maya. Oathbringer is showing these signs by not screaming as much. Yet it is not bonded to Dalinar anymore. If anything the bond was broken, and then bonded to Sadeas. If the bond is necessary in order to heal and improve a spren, then why didn't Oathbringers "improvement" retard when Dalinar severed the bond? If living the oaths while bonded to the dead spren blade is crucial to reviving it, then why didn't Sadeas bonding Oathbringer make Oathbringer worse? If your reply is that the healing cannot be reversed, then we go back to the point a made a few pages back. Then why over the thousands of years since the Recreance and the significant number of generations, couldn't multiple shardbearers live the oaths enough each time, to heal a shard blade bit by bit by bit till it came back? Why is only Adolin the very first? Especially when we see Dalinar experience the same thing? Dalinar is not experiencing the same thing. Contact with a person who has an active Nahel bond creates a sort of resonance that pushes a spren closer to life. This is why Relis heard his blade speak when Kaladin touched it in the dueling arena. Oathbringer was bonded to his soul, and because of that has connection to him that though his bond has been severed, is still there shallowly, his touch with a Nahel bond awakens those memories. Adolin has no such bond with a living spren to create that effect. As to why Adolin is the first, I think it precisely because he is the first person to meet their blade in the Cognitive. He has been forced to see the blade as more than just a weapon. Knowing the blade was once a spren, and meeting the still mobile entity that is your sword are two very different things. See? Again with asserting things as fact. Please show me verifiable references from the book or WoB that state conclusively that Dalinar could not be experiencing the same thing. You didn’t say “I think Dalinar is not experiencing the same thing”. You didn’t say “It is my opinion that Dalinar is not experiencing the same thing. You said “Dalinar is not experiencing the same thing” full stop. Again, where in the book or WoB does it conclusively say “Contact with a person with an active Nahel bond pushes a spren closer to life”. We do know it takes 10 heartbeats for a shardblade to be summoned. We know it is termed to be “reviving” the dead spren temporarily when you summon them as a shardblade. We do know a radiant can hear a shardblade scream when touching it, and if a person is also holding it, they also hear the scream, but I have not heard nor read any confirmation that conclusively states it is because the radiant’s presence that brings it more to life. Maybe if you clarify your statement? I see instances that you could interpret as signs of this, but I certainly do not see any verifiable and conclusive evidence that makes such an assertion applicable, assuming you are asserting what I think you are asserting. If the nahel bond pushes a spren closer to life, then why does it function as it does? Why does the effect not remain in place? Why can’t a radiant just hold onto a dead spren blade really long, and that be how it is brought back to life? Doesn’t that occur with Renarin? He had a shardblade while being bonded to a radiant spren and he held it for the requisite time period to bond it, and even more so. So why is a radiant touching a shardblade returning it to life briefly, but for Adolin it is a continual effect? Why for Adolin is it a continual effect that will result in permanence with revival? Please elaborate on your statement. So now you are saying the reason the blade is reviving is because he spoke to it in person? How does that not negate all the time he spent speaking to it and acting honorably before hand? If he never ended up in the cognitive realm, are you saying he would have never been able to revive Maya? For me that sounds more far fetched. The shear chances that Adolin would end up in the right place at the right time and act the right way during that time to result in Maya starting to awaken is a bit much to me. But that is why it doesn’t sit right for me. I readily realize and respect it could work for you. Please confirm that is what you meant by that statement as well. 9 hours ago, Pathfinder said: Now that we established Maya has to be healing (which we didn't actually), then by extension there must (there doesn't have to be) a reason that is healing her. Perpendicularities cannot heal investiture. But there is that problematic WoB about the dataport being torn out. Not a plug removed. Ripped out, chunky and all. Well investiture cannot come from no where, and the bond cannot create investiture, so by extension there must (there doesn't have to be) a reason to validate that Maya is healing, because Maya has to be healing because she was summoned in less than 7 heartbeats, spoke her name, and defended Adolin. So we must be interpreting that WoB incorrectly, or misunderstanding the process. Let me now think of a process, that is in line with our understanding of the cosmere, that will then validate the supposition that Maya is healing, so then that Maya healing can then support my supposition that she had anything torn out to begin with. Its cyclical. Now you put a lot of work in your theory and you have a great understanding of realmatic theory to support it. But that does not change you draw all of this on a supposition that Maya is healing. A supposition not everyone agrees on. A supposition other people have derived other theories from by interpreting it differently. And the big part? Those theories are just as valid. Frankly, I don't care if you or anyone else agrees. Off of everything that we have been shown throughout the Cosmere as a whole, I think this explanation is the most realmatically sound. It fits all of the points we know, not just those about spren and Shardblades. I am. Not stating it as fact. I have repeatedly said I think, I believe, and in my opinion. I am not invalidating anyone else's opinion, just disagreeing. If you choose to be defensive because I am confident, that is not my problem. And that is great, you are perfectly entitled to not give one wit what I think. For me at the end of the day, it is important to demonstrate when something is conclusive versus inconclusive. I was pointing out your assertions were not entirely accurate in the way they were presented. If you wish to ascribe an emotion to me, that is your right to do so, though personally I fail to see how I have acted in such a manner. 9 hours ago, Pathfinder said: 1. Adolin living the oaths, and talking to Maya strengthens/insulated his Connection (capital C) of the faux bond to Maya 2. The bond is crucial because it provides the scaffolding for the infusion of investiture. The strength of the Connection is crucial because it will need to maintain during the massive infusion of investiture 3. The inclusion of a Bondsmith is crucial because it is written in their entire power set about bringing things together, soul, mind, and body. This is validated by Dalinar's actions and by the Stormfather's own words. 4. This experience would cause Dalinar and Adolin to work closely together for an extended period of time on an extremely personal and emotional endeavor to Adolin. To me I think that takes nothing away from Adolin and if anything adds a ton of growth and depth. I did read your previous posts, and guess they just don't add up to me. It feels too much like invalidating the relationship that has been built between Adolin and his blade and turning it into "a Bondsmith can fix it." As to the assertion that I'm reinterpreting the wetwear WoB to fit my theory... No. What I've said does not contradict it in any way, it just does not proscribe to the assumption that what was ripped out was Investiture. I respect how you feel. Personally I feel it would not be a Bondsmith fixing it if, in my opinion, the theory requires both parties to be involved. But to each their own. I didn’t say you were reinterpreting the WoB. I said you started from an supposition. You then formulated a means for that supposition to be realmatically sound. That does not negate your theory, nor indicate it is wrong. All it does is denote the process. Conversely, if I were to formulate a theory that is based on shardblades cutting through stone, then that would be starting with a verifiable fact. We have numerous statements that support that. We have numerous examples that back that up. Everyone can agree that a shardblade cuts through stone. Everyone on the other hand does not agree that Maya is healing. I respect that you do not prescribe to my theory. I wish you luck with your own. 9 hours ago, Pathfinder said: But that is just my own theory that I think holds up most to me. All our theories can co-exist and we can all prefer our own theories and discuss them without making others feel like they are wrong and I am right. That is why I feel some people on this thread take issue with the way you and CrazyRioter present your theory. it is not fact, and it is not the only valid one out there. You think it is because the reasons work best for you. You take it to mean that I'm attempting to put others down and lift myself up. That isn't the case. I expect my theories to be questioned and prodded. I expect to do the same to others. I have been wrong many times, and will be again, but when we share theories we subject them to scrutiny. I never said you were belittling others. I said you were misrepresenting your perspective. There is a difference. That is the entire point of theory discussion. Whether I convince anyone of my theory or not is irrelevant. And regardless of what you may think, I have had my mind changed to theories that I once disagreed with multiple times because of supporting evidence and well thought out argumentation. Exactly. And that was never my issue. I never asked you to convince me. I never expected to convince you. You have your well thought out reasons for your theory. I just take issue with the way you presented them. You may not enjoy the style with which I discuss things here, but I am by no means saying everyone else is wrong and I am right. Just that with the evidence we have, this is how I see it. And that is great and I wish you luck with your theory!

Ok, so got a whole lot to type in hopefully a concise manner. Wish me luck! That is great that you do not think it could be anything else. That does not mean that it can't be anything else. Alternative lines of thought differ from your own. That does not mean intrinsically yours is the the only valid theory. To put this another way. Your theory is not like the theory of gravity or evolution. Those have been tested over and over by repeatable tests and conclusions. The information we have right now does not provide that. We have a small amount of data points that can be interpreted in a myriad of ways that result in a myriad of theories. Just because those reasons do not jive with you, does not mean their reasons are any less valid or hold up any less. Now I will jump around a little bit because the main point I would like to make is rather long and does involve your points at various times so it will not be a 1 to 1 response. So I will first cover the short responses 2) The relevance is it was brought forward that Adolin would bond Maya as an edgedancer because he has edgedancer traits. My point is he could also be categorized into other orders, that does not automatically mean he will bond or even revive spren from those orders. Basically one supposition does not naturally lead to the other is my point. It does not preclude it, but it does not intrinsically validate it. Which comes up a lot in your theory, but I will get to that below 3) The manner Syl was restored was with her original knight. WoB says that without the original knight it is very difficult. He has made it clear that the process, whatever it may be, is harder if you are not the original knight that swore the oaths. Adolin is not the original knight. Syl being restored by Kaladin does not preclude Adolin from doing the same, but it also does not intrinsically prove it can happen. Again, that is a supposition you are making and painting as a fact. As to the connection comment being "ridiculously" high bar, I will respond further down 4) So you are so sure only your own theory holds water, yet you admit you do not actually understand what my theory is? On top of not understanding my theory, you then assume that it would mean Adolin and Maya's development would be pointless which is most certainly a personal opinion, and no where near fact whatsoever. I will respond to this further below as well. So, now we get to what I feel is the crux of my post. I think it is not beneficial to this thread to state ones own theory in a manner that precludes any other possibilities, and presents ones own theory as either fact, the only valid theory, or the only one with the most weight(upheld). I think this is not beneficial when the information we have is far from conclusive to support any of the theories presented in this thread. Everyone has very valid theories that work for them. Some agree with each other, some disagree. But the fact of the matter is, we just do not have enough information to say "well this theory is the best one to work from". What we have is reasons that jive the most with some people, and they thereby feel it fits best for them, but that does not make it fact. As an illustration (and not an attack), I will demonstrate why I feel your theory does not hold water to me (and this is after I have already read your theory multiple times). 1. Maya is summoned in under the normal 10 heartbeats. Maya communicates her name to Adolin. Maya runs out to stop the Fused who is attacking Adolin in the cognitive realm. All of this is fact. All of this everyone acknowledges happened. 2. Because of the above three instances, no other dead shardblade does this, so in order for these three things to occur, Maya must be healing. This is a supposition. A hypothesis. One you use to back up and self validate the rest of your theory. Now why does this not hold weight for me? Because each instance could be explained by a different mechanic. Do I think those mechanics are the reason for those occurrences? No. I think there are different reasons for them, but the fact that they are valid when concerning your theory is enough for me to feel your theory does not hold up, so I do not prescribe to it. I will notate these by letters as subcategories in an effort to try and keep this organized. A. Maya summoned in under the normal 10 heartbeats. We have a WoB that the further away you are from the spren in the cognitive realm, the longer it takes to summon it via heartbeats. The example given was going off planet, since a dead spren could not follow in that case, and the distance would result in a few heartbeat difference. To me if a heartbeat difference could be seen when you are further away from a spren, then theoretically a heartbeat difference could be seen if you are closer to the spren. The realms were brought together when Adolin summoned Maya in 7 heartbeats, so theoretically they were closer then. Also when Adolin was first in the cognitive realm, he goes to summon his shardblade. Maya immediately looks at him, raises her hand, and begins to scream. He is the closest to her he could possibly be, and when he goes to summon her, she responds immediately. Does that mean she healed a whole bunch then? The heartbeats are down to 0. So if reducing the heartbeats to summon a shardblade means she is healing, then why did she go to needing 0 heartbeats then, but go back to needing more when he came out into the physical realm? You do not think that response works. Fine, I respect that, but it still is a valid point, and one that can exist without Maya healing. B. Maya communicates her name to Adolin. Dalinar hears oathbringer whimper instead of scream. The stormfather says it is because oathbringer remembers the oaths Dalinar made and broke so it hates him less. One could reply well Dalinar hears it because he is a radiant. But the supposition says Maya communicating with Adolin shows healing because it is a sign of improvement. That improvement is the product of the bond between Adolin and Maya. Oathbringer is showing these signs by not screaming as much. Yet it is not bonded to Dalinar anymore. If anything the bond was broken, and then bonded to Sadeas. If the bond is necessary in order to heal and improve a spren, then why didn't Oathbringers "improvement" retard when Dalinar severed the bond? If living the oaths while bonded to the dead spren blade is crucial to reviving it, then why didn't Sadeas bonding Oathbringer make Oathbringer worse? If your reply is that the healing cannot be reversed, then we go back to the point a made a few pages back. Then why over the thousands of years since the Recreance and the significant number of generations, couldn't multiple shardbearers live the oaths enough each time, to heal a shard blade bit by bit by bit till it came back? Why is only Adolin the very first? Especially when we see Dalinar experience the same thing? C. Maya stops the fused from attacking Adolin. We have never seen any other shardbearer travel to the cognitive realm, be put into danger, and see how the spren associated with his or her shardblade reacts. One data point does not a trend make. 3. Now that we established Maya has to be healing (which we didn't actually), then by extension there must (there doesn't have to be) a reason that is healing her. Perpendicularities cannot heal investiture. But there is that problematic WoB about the dataport being torn out. Not a plug removed. Ripped out, chunky and all. Well investiture cannot come from no where, and the bond cannot create investiture, so by extension there must (there doesn't have to be) a reason to validate that Maya is healing, because Maya has to be healing because she was summoned in less than 7 heartbeats, spoke her name, and defended Adolin. So we must be interpreting that WoB incorrectly, or misunderstanding the process. Let me now think of a process, that is in line with our understanding of the cosmere, that will then validate the supposition that Maya is healing, so then that Maya healing can then support my supposition that she had anything torn out to begin with. Its cyclical. Now you put a lot of work in your theory and you have a great understanding of realmatic theory to support it. But that does not change you draw all of this on a supposition that Maya is healing. A supposition not everyone agrees on. A supposition other people have derived other theories from by interpreting it differently. And the big part? Those theories are just as valid. Now as an aside. If you please will go back and re-read my prior posts, I answer all your questions already about my theory. I do not see the point of repeating it all here because I assumed you took the time to fully read my posts and understand them. If then say you disagree, then me repeating it all accomplishes nothing except me taking up more space and me repeating myself. However for the sake of brevity I will give the TLDR version below: 1. Adolin living the oaths, and talking to Maya strengthens/insulated his Connection (capital C) of the faux bond to Maya 2. The bond is crucial because it provides the scaffolding for the infusion of investiture. The strength of the Connection is crucial because it will need to maintain during the massive infusion of investiture 3. The inclusion of a Bondsmith is crucial because it is written in their entire power set about bringing things together, soul, mind, and body. This is validated by Dalinar's actions and by the Stormfather's own words. 4. This experience would cause Dalinar and Adolin to work closely together for an extended period of time on an extremely personal and emotional endeavor to Adolin. To me I think that takes nothing away from Adolin and if anything adds a ton of growth and depth. But that is just my own theory that I think holds up most to me. All our theories can co-exist and we can all prefer our own theories and discuss them without making others feel like they are wrong and I am right. That is why I feel some people on this thread take issue with the way you and CrazyRioter present your theory. it is not fact, and it is not the only valid one out there. You think it is because the reasons work best for you.

True, though if we are to believe Hessi's, they fear Sja-anat in particular, and the general populace knew that which is why it was able to be recorded in the Mythica by someone (Hessi) ages later through research. I just think if you are going to tell people you fear something especially in particular, those people would naturally wonder why specifically that thing over others? Very very true lol. Also very true. I agree