Pathfinder

Hmmm, the only thing that is conflicting (not against your theory, I mean in the information we have in general), is that Ivory states he bonded Jasnah against the wishes of his kind. Could they have been watching her because they saw the potential and wanted to be wary of her, but then one of them (Ivory) while watching felt drawn to her and ignored their protests? Hmmmm. Well again, my very loose theory is that the schizophrenia would have predated Ivory's interest in Jasnah. That the way she tried to cope with it using rational thought to tell the difference between hallucination and reality would have drawn him to her. So Jasnah having relied on it so much to judge her very reality by it, would seem like a beacon of logic to Ivory and lead him to say that. At least that is the line of thinking of my theory. Actually that made me remember the other instance I was drawing upon that now makes me think the age issue might not be as great an issue. Two girls aged 12 attempted to kill a third girl aged 12 because "slender man" told them to. One of the girl's father was medically diagnosed as schizophrenic and commented on how he would see demons in the backseat, and have to try to remind himself it wasn't real. He hadn't thought she exhibited any signs of it, and felt he failed at not helping her cope with the issues. Now that could have been used for the daughter to try and commute her sentence to plead insanity, but having a familial history of the illness could lend credence to their claim she had it and that is why she did what she did. So although it may come up in less circumstances, it could potentially still be on the table. Hmmm, more for me to think on!

Hmmmm, interesting. Soulcasting does seem to be an outlier like you said in your thread. Makes me wonder what is unique about soulcasters being used to pushing through investiture results in them being able to do so (such as soulcasting people or invested objects like a metal mind), meanwhile even "small" amounts of investiture would interfere with with a stoneward using cohesion enough to prevent it from being done on a person at all. Interesting theory regarding why that may be. It does certainly sound plausible to me that a brief change that maintains the form but changes the composition would be less resistant than changing the form itself from its ideal. I am not sure where I land on it yet, but I do see what you are going for.

Thing is there is a lot we do not know about the capabilities of a fully oathed Radiant. Using adhesion and gravitation on himself Kaladin wouldn't be coming against any natural investiture, but any use of adhesion or gravitation on Jasnah would come into the same issues you point out she would have on him. Investiture resists investiture. It is why a radiant has to dismiss their plate, and (seemingly) not hold stormlight in order for someone else to lash them. Potentially Kaladin can, but it would take a whole lot more stormlight to do so. I lean in Jasnah's favor because there are two WoB saying a soulcaster is more practiced getting through investiture than most, so Jasnah would already have experience asserting her will on things that resist. It wouldn't be easy, never said it would be, but out of the two, I would lean towards Jasnah pushing through investiture better than Kaladin. I do not think we have examples in book or WoB that say lashing someone invested would inherently be easier than soulcasting someone. Same thing with adhesion, or abrasion and so on. I mean we could reason it would be harder, but we do not have any real example to base it on. Or at least to the best of my recollection. If you have a book reference or WoB where it shows Kaladin or someone lashing someone infused with investiture, holding stormlight, or encased in shardplate I would love to see it. Not being sarcastic, I am being completely genuine. If I missed something I always would love to learn more. But as far as I can recall, Kaladin has just as much issue lashing invested items as Jasnah would soulcasting them. Kaladin can easily lash rocks and such, just like Jasnah can easily soulcast them. I asked Bigmikey the same. Out of genuine curiosity, do we have any WoB or in book examples showing Kaladin lashing someone or something invested is not as difficult as soulcasting someone or something invested? I do agree the logic would follow, but I am wondering if we have any particular instances to draw upon.

Good point. I had not considered if there was an age range for schizophrenia. I agree the implication is that she was fairly young when all this occurred. Hmmm, something to definitely think on. I do admit my theory is out there. I will say doing this re-read has me wondering if it could actually be due to ivory but not directly. In the scene where she sees her shadows acting strange, and I believe one other, she muses that she had "felt their eyes watching her for some time". That is not an exact quote. Perhaps she confessed to Navani and Gavilar about the feeling of unseen eyes always on her, and they took that as madness? Lol, I was the one that wrote it on that thread. My theory is that her schizophrenia is what got her locked up, and how she dealt with her schizophrenia to escape is what attracted Ivory. So Ivory would have come later, not caused the locking up. At least that is my theory.

Technically nothing which I readily realize and admit. Basically my theory is when Jasnah was a child she had a mild degree of paranoid schizophrenia. This would result in her having hallucinations no one else could see. Due to the manner in which the Ardentia treat the "insane", it would be plausible for Navani and Gavilar to send her away to get treated hoping to help her get better. Unfortunately since the treatment is very archaic compared to all we know in the real world, they ended up doing far more harm to Jasnah than good. For instance putting her in a dark room would allow her hallucinations to run rampant. Who knows what other forms of treatment they would do? Realizing she may never be free, and feeling tormented by the "treatment", Jasnah sought logic and rational thought to dispel her hallucinations. I draw upon the biography of John Nash Jr. He also was an intellectual beset by hallucinations brought on by paranoid schizophrenia. At that time electro shock therapy was a very common treatment. He viewed it as torture and over time employed logic and rational thought to try to tell the difference between reality and his hallucinations. Over the course of his life he had a degree of success. I think this enforced logical and rational view to overcome her hallucinations caused her to attract Ivory which led to her later bonding him. The reason there is nothing concrete to back this up, is all the tidbits we have are too loose. Her going "oh no not again" to the shadows could be attributed to a wide range of causes. So I could not claim my thoughts are the only reason that could cause it. It would explain a lot, but it wouldn't exclude any other possibilities. So that's my theory lol. Only thing is although jasnah does comment she has felt their eyes on her for some time, the scene where she first faces Ivory, is the first time she ever met him. She did not know who or what they were and mused to herself she has to research the experience. For me if she had already been bonding him, she would have recognized him when he appeared. I think it is an allusion to what happened to Shallan and Elhokar who felt like they were being watched. In Shallan's case she had bonded pattern when she was young, but she had blocked that part out of her memory. From what we have seen of Jasnah, she very much remembered what was done to her. Elhokar sees them in the mirrors, but Jasnah makes no mention of every seeing them. Only feeling them watching her. That is why I am not sure if I agree yet that Ivory was the reason she was locked up. I feel like it is something else. edit: though I realize as I re-read what I wrote, if someone was muttering to themselves "they are watching me, always watching me", I would be concerned for their mental health. So maybe ivory could have been the cause without Jasnah having to actually see him. I am not sure we can accurately say she was stubborn and didn't like being told what to do when she was young. Navani speaks of an inquisitive child who used to go to her with questions. Then when she hit adolescents something changed, and it was like she skipped to adulthood. That was when she began to shut people out. I think the event happened, then she became distant That could be a potential as why she is single. Concerned about sharing her secret. I see what you are going for. Gavilar and Jasnah I think there is a load of unknown information there. She seems by all rights to love her father, and was deeply hurt to see him killed. Yet she also comments on how he was originally distant till they bonded over the parshendi. Then she gets hurt again by his mistrust. So it really makes me wonder how their dynamic worked when she was younger.

Just to clarify, when I said Jasnah could theoretically soulcast Syl, it is because of the numerous WoB where people ask him "can I forge a person into a mistborn" or "can I x the y". Brandon always responds the same. Sure, theoretically, with enough investiture, anything is possible, but that doesn't make it feasible. The amount of power you would need to forge someone into being a mistborn is more than it is worth attempting. So Jasnah could theoretically soulcast anything, including Syl, just the level of investiture needed to overcome Syl's investiture directly would be so great as to unfeasible. That is why I wanted clarity on a radiant and his or her spren becoming one because you implied by them doing so, Kaladin would gain that level of "resistance". Now having said all that, personally I still maintain the level of versatility and variability that soulcasting provides in the right hands would be enough for Jasnah to overcome Kaladin. Jasnah is practiced enough to soulcast fine details onto a piece of paper, or larger changes. She is practiced enough to know that the essences are easier to soulcast than specific things. She is also practiced enough to know her proficiency does not lie with creating organics (the strawberry jam being something she never tried before). To me, for a princess with access to expensive materials, coupled with a scholar who has access to a power she relentlessly researched because of the coming desolation, I do not think it a stretch to imagine she went over all the materials that could be soulcasted vs the ones that could not, and made a point to look further into those materials. Aluminum is used in expensive jewelry, so she would most certainly have access to it to experiment on. Given what we know about Jasnah, all it would take is the well known knowledge that aluminum cannot be directly soulcasted on for her interest to be piqued. Even if she didn't start knowing aluminum couldn't be soulcasted, as I said I do not think it a stretch at all that she would test her ability on a whole host of metals and materials to practice. So I think it is entirely plausible that Jasnah would 1. know what aluminum is 2. know its properties of resisting investiture 3. know how to soulcast items and things into aluminum. I have included below some WoB that I think are also pertinent to this discussion. Questioner Can you Soulcast an Invested object? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but it's much harder. But humans are Invested, and you can soulcast humans. Questioner So, suppose you had a goldmind that was filled. And you tried to Soulcast into iron. What would happen to the Investiture inside it? Brandon Sanderson So, the Investiture would remain in there, but it's keyed to the wrong thing, so you wouldn't be able to get it. It'd be much harder to Soulcast that, by the way. The more Invested, the harder it is. But Soulcasters are used to it, because everything has Investiture, and most of what they're Soulcasting. They deal with this, so it's something they're kind of expert at. So, this is not outside reason, that it could happen. You could give it to your average Soulcaster on Roshar, and they could make it happen. You just wouldn't be able to get the Investiture out of it anymore. H4rg I would have a question about Soulcasting : is Soulcasting an invested object harder ? And if it is a human (lets say, an Allomancer) but he is not burning any metal, would he be as easy as Soulcast as any "normal" person ? Brandon Sanderson It is harder to Soulcast an invested object, but Soulcasters--by their nature--are used to dealing with this. When Allomancers aren't burning metal, they are not considered highly-invested. Questioner If I were to impulsively Soulcast pewter, the way Shallan does with the blood in The Way of Kings, would it come out that an Allomancer be able to use it? Brandon Sanderson You could create Allomantically viable metals, yes. Questioner But is it automatic? Brandon Sanderson I would say that the pure metals are, but the alloys are not. To put those WoB in context (as in why I brought them up). They show that a standard soulcaster (fabrial) is used to getting through an object's natural investiture. They are so used to it, that a standard soulcaster (fabrial) could soulcast through a metalmind invested with a stored attribute. For me, if a standard soulcaster (fabrial) could do it, then I see no reason why a soulcaster (radiant) could not only do the same, but even better. The last WoB confirms it is possible to soulcast allomantically viable metals. Aluminum is one of those metals. The only caveat is if it is an alloy, the soulcaster would have to intend to make it rather than just make pure metals automatically.

I have a theory that she might have had a mild degree of paranoid schizophrenia. There is nothing concrete in the book nor WoB to back it up, but I feel it would explain a lot. I understand. I was just responding to the portion where you said "even if it is slightly disturbing".

If it strikes your fancy, I am curious your thoughts on my post "Jasnah, More than Meets the Eye". I have included a link to it below. It comments on Jasnah and the relationship she has with her wards, Dalinar, and her personality. I would love to hear your views on it.

No problemo. I just wanted to add one more thing to clarify. I did not mean to post about Adolin and Sadeas to discount your theory about Sadeas being the main aggressor. I had meant it towards your response to another poster about Adolin losing his temper. You said you only recalled it happening about twice. I meant to only add the other times Adolin had lost his temper, or nearly did so but was stopped by someone present. Was not my intention to refute anyone's theories. i wish you luck with your theories!

Writing all this up has made me even more curious to find out what happened to Jasnah to change her from a child prodigy curious and full of questions, to the guarded and strong woman we know today. That is why upon going over each quote, I love Shallan's scene with the slave trader after the ship wreck. Jasnah is considered dead, but I think by seeing through Shallan's mind trying to emulate Jasnah, we could possibly have a hint at the way a young Jasnah learned to draw strength of logic and rational thought against the adversity surrounding her. LOL, it was even longer all together in the word doc I typed up because I had included the quotes in it. With the quotes included, it came to 71 pages. And that is Way of Kings and Words of Radiance alone. I still haven't covered Oathbringer lol. Lol she is epicness. I think Jasnah is important because society puts more value on those that are charismatic, work well with others, and are frequently vocal. Jasnah shows analytical skills, with measured responses and thoughtful silences can be just as beneficial in numerous areas of expertise and in some cases be preferred. Same thing with Renarin. Just because these traits are not what is prevalent does not mean they are "weird" or have lesser value. Jasnah can exist, be logical and rational, but at the same time be human and have a right to feel like she belongs. Her strength standing up to the cultures, societies and religions of her world is downright inspirational.

Only ringing in on these two points. First, technically you could say Dalinar and Navani are already doing that and will continue to do so. Dalinar has powers, and when he regained his memories he backslid into alcoholism. Navani was upset but supported him at the same time. Dalinar did his thing with Odium and the Thrill while Navani was organizing people, and using her fabrials to help in Thayla. So definitely a married couple. Definitely having powers. Definitely running into relationship problems, and definitely overcoming obstacles together. Second, Adolin wants to pull a blade on Sadeas at the beginning of Way of Kings for insulting Dalinar. Renarin stops him. Adolin then again wants to pull a blade on Sadeas for insulting Renarin. Dalinar stops him. Then again Adolin wants to pull a blade on Sadeas at the wine place with Shallan. I believe Shallan stops him that time. I can check but I believe there were two or three more instances in Way of Kings alone. Honestly I think Adolin killing Sadeas at the end of Words of Radiance was primarily because there was no one there to actively convince him not to or try to stop him. Not commenting on the morality, nor whether Adolin is good or bad for doing it. Just adding some info and additional accuracy. I do not have a dog in this fight.

Thank you, and I agree. It genuinely surprised me to find how many more scenes there were than I recalled with Jasnah. I thought I would have just a couple of big scenes, with a bunch of glimpses that I would need to delve into to really show but to find the sheer number turned this from a few day write up to a two week endeavor. It might be because most of her scenes are from another person's perspective that it is easy to just see the surface or forget what lies beneath. Seriously the back five with her view points can't come soon enough lol.

I have seen various character studies on various characters but none really on Jasnah by herself. I have also seen what I feel is misunderstandings regarding the character. So I decided to take every instance of Jasnah in all three books, in chronological order, in an effort to share with you all what I see in this character and perhaps show you all the humanity within her. I will go quote by quote showing how she is viewed at face value in a scene, and then I will provide context based on in book information and/or Words of Brandon. I hope by providing context to the scenes she is seen as emotionless as well as calling attention to the scenes where we do see Jasnah’s emotions and how many times we see them will demonstrate a deeper understanding of the character. This will allow people to hear my reading of her, but at the same time have the scenes referenced readily available for people to read and form their own thoughts. Some quotes will be trimmed at places due to descriptions of the surroundings (such as buildings, and etc) that have no content relevant to this thread. Where I skip will be denoted by “....”. I will spoil tag each quote for length and reading sanity. I am unsure if anyone will go through the effort of reading all of this all the way through, but if you do, I look forward to your thoughts. If you disagree, I also look forward to your thoughts though I ask you to read the scene, and reference the scene when explaining why you disagreed. I went through the trouble of including the scene for ease of access so I would appreciate if that extra work was employed in response. After typing all this up, going through all of Way of Kings and all of Words of Radiance, I have come to two conclusions. First, this took waaaaaay longer than I expected, and second, there are waaaaay more scenes of Jasnah than I thought lol. Because of this, I decided to post what I had so far (all of Way of Kings and all of Words of Radiance). If there is any interest in this, I will finish up with Oathbringer. If this however gets viewed and then is quickly lost among forum uncommented on, then ah well I did my best. So this is our first introduction to Jasnah. From the perspective of Shallan, who never met her, never saw her, and bases her impression on some of the books she read in the library and rumors about the princess of the strongest kingdom on the planet. To her, this Jasnah is the most powerful and intimidating woman in the world. Shallan thinks she is nothing before such a woman. That Jasnah is the only member of a faithful house that is a vocal heretic Now Shallan is having her world view of Jasnah supported. Jasnah is sister to the king. Of course she would stay where a king lives. However we find out later that the reason is she is researching the end of the world and doing all she can to stop it. Whereas public opinion assumes she is royalty and expects to go where royalty goes, the reality is she is staying there to pursue knowledge to save the world. Same could be said about Shallan chasing her. Jasnah is being dismissive and flippant towards Shallan by not waiting for her. The reality is Jasnah is deeply fearful of the impending end of the world, and cannot spare any time from pursuing her research. The outside view shows her to be a selfish and self important princess, the inside view shows her to be a altruistic and self sacrificing scientist trying to avert disaster. Again from Shallan’s perspective, Jasnah is beyond any “normal” human beings. She is a scholary juggernaut that is a vocal heretic. A heretic that could try to corrupt Shallan from her religion, the only thing that gave her solace during her dark days with her father. A later scene with Taravangian that I will cover will show that Jasnah actually does not seek to convert anyone to her “heretical ways”. The reality is people frequently confront and attempt to convert her. She just defends her own rationale. We begin this lengthy scene with Shallan’s overawed first impression of Jasnah. She expected a withered, ugly, old spinster because she is a “heretic well into her mid-thirties and still unmarried”. I think this commentary is to help us see the levels of opposition Jasnah has to deal with just to exist. She does not believe in the Vorin religion, and she (for whatever reason which there are many theories) chooses to be unmarried. Those two simple facts are enough to create an image of a crotchety, and bitter woman for Shallan. The revelation that Jasnah looks nothing of the sort is enough to stop Shallan in her tracks. She doesn’t fit the stereotype that only “unattractive women” remain single. The reality is she is quite attractive, and shows that her value is not only in her looks. She can be single and that be ok despite outside pressure pushing her to do otherwise. Shallan then expresses her concern that Jasnah will scold her for being late despite it being Jasnah’s continual travel that caused it. Shallan rationalizes this as “ah well, she is so high above me, people like that always expect irrational things from their inferiors. This point is later disproven, but also slightly validated later on. If we skip a head a bit Jasnah confirms she does not hold Shallan’s arrival against her at all. In fact she is impressed. Now admittedly Jasnah grills Shallan and has very high expectations, but again there is context to this. First, Jasnah has been repeatedly pursued by multiple wards. A good chunk of those wards either wanted to steal the soulcaster for the Ardentia, gain notoriety for having a wardship with a famed heretic thereby increasing their chance of marriage, or manipulate Jasnah into giving them connections into the Alethi royalty. These are all types of individuals Jasnah has no time for given the pressing nature and importance of her research. So all the paces she puts Shallan through are ultimately warranted. I also think it says something of Jasnah’s character that when an individual does accomplish something noteworthy, she gives that accomplish its due, like when Shallan reasons that Taravangian’s own people already determined the mass of the stone. Now going back a bit, Shallan overhears Jasnah speaking to Taravangian. We find out they are discussing Jasnah using her soulcaster to turn the boulder to smoke to free Taravangian’s granddaughter from a cave in. Jasnah cautions Taravangian that her helping him, and him providing her access to the Palananeum in exchange could raise the ire of the Vorin church. She knows Taravangian is a practicing Vorin. She also could easily provide the money necessary to have free use of the Palaneum without any bargain of helping the king being necessary. She is desperate to research the coming end of the world yet she warns the king of the possible fall out with the church so he won’t suffer on her account, and takes the time to save the kings granddaughter when she has no need to accomplish her goals. So while from the outside it could seem that Jasnah merely saved the granddaughter as an exchange of services to get what she wants that lies in the Palanaeum, the inside view shows she could have gotten it regardless without any concern for Taravangian nor saving his granddaughter, yet she does so anyway. In my opinion that is Jasnah lowkey helping others with no expectation of gratitude. Pretty clear and upfront. Jasnah Kholin has had to fight in order to exist as the woman she is in the time period and culture she grew up in. As result, and as Shallan is realizing, Jasnah respects determination, intelligence, and strength. Our first hint at Jasnah’s regular interactions with the Vorin Church. They either want to steal the soulcaster from her, or will use her as a trophy to say “hey! I converted the heretic!”. No respect for her beliefs. No understanding. Yet she is painted as the heretic that will corrupt good Vorin worshippers. This is shown again and elaborated on later in the book. Now we get to see the first mistake Jasnah makes in the books. Earlier Jasnah has made it clear that she had dismissed Shallan, yet Shallan persists and writes an argument for being taken on as a ward. Jasnah finds her still there and enraged tells her to get out. Despite this, minutes later a servant calls Shallan back. Was it to return Shallan’s money left in the goblet? No, though she does do that as well after. Was it because of the wonderful argument Shallan wrote? No again, yet that does come up after. It is because Jasnah, by herself, realized she had acted unfairly towards Shallan. A “typical” highlady would have just left things as is. Instead Jasnah has a servant search for Shallan, request she come back, and apologizes. The scene shows that Jasnah is exhausted from overworking herself researching (to prevent the end of the world as we later know). She is tired, frustrated and short tempered, but admits that is no excuse for her poor treatment of Shallan. It is then Shallan calls Jasnah’s attention to the argument she wrote. Jasnah then reads it and gives it the credit it is due. She respects well thought out reasoning, determination and tenacity. She gives Shallan the chance to petition again when she is ready. Something Shallan knows is a huge gesture, though given her situation it is not enough. It seems the biggest hallmark of Jasnah in Way of Kings is how hard she pushes herself researching the Desolations. This is again another comment on how she is researching nonstop well past exhaustion. She is terrified of what is coming (which is shown much later on as a very emotional scene). It is why she reacts to everyone as she does when we see her. She very much feels she is out of time and is trying to stop a storm by blowing hard. I think it is understandable that she would be testy around people. Yet despite all this, she sees in Shallan a kindred spirit. She knows Shallan’s family is falling apart, and that Shallan is seeking an alliance with her through wardship. That is why she rejected her so quickly. Because the Shallan she just met is like every other enterprising individual seeking to use Jasnah. But once Jasnah realizes there is a genuine love of learning within Shallan, she feels that it is worth nurturing and takes her on as a ward. This to me is a pretty clear sign of compassion. This is pretty open and shut. Dalinar trusts Jasnah. You know where you stand with her. Shallan is starting to bit by bit get to know a deeper Jasnah. One that is not matching up with what everyone assumes. This is our first, and one of the great examples (there are two to three more over the course of the three books) of how Jasnah talks with individuals with beliefs different than her own, and her views on her own “heresy”. We first start with her method of teaching which to Shallan’s surprise is very Socratic (though Socrates obviously is not a thing in their world). Jasnah believes in encouraging curiosity, and asking questions to gain greater knowledge and insight. It is hard to see, but I believe this is the starting signs of a bond Jasnah is building with Shallan, and shows Jasnah beginning to care and respect Shallan. This is not just a lesson of memorization. She is trying to see and appreciate Shallan for the person she is, and help her grow as a person. If there is one way to instigate Jasnah’s ire, it is crushing another person’s creativity and ingenuity with personal ignorance. She calls out Shallan’s tutors as being idiots for doing exactly that. As per Shallan’s own thoughts, Jasnah genuinely loves learning and wants others to do so as well. Taravangian then arrives to eat with them. It is Taravangian, not Jasnah that brings up her beliefs. Shallan comments to herself how often Jasnah will not bring up her beliefs at all, and when asked typically changes the subject. This was only different because she felt Taravangian’s inquiry was genuine and not malicious or seeking to convert her. Every assertion Jasnah made was in response to an argument Taravangian made. At no point did she belittle his views. At no point did she deride him for believing as he wished. In fact it was Taravangian that stated “then you’ve removed all purpose for the Almighty’s existence!”, to which Jasnah simply responds “indeed”. Jasnah does not believe in the need of a deity. That does not mean she has any problem with anyone else believing such, and she states exactly that in this scene. “My intention is not to convert Your Majesty. I am content keeping my beliefs to myself, something most of my colleagues in the devotaries have difficulty doing”. She even pays the devoteries the respect of referring to them as her colleagues. Jasnah then inquires what Shallan was going to say to the king. Shallan admits it would have been derogatory, to which Jasnah in a calm and understanding manner instructs Shallan to never speak of Taravangian in that manner. That he is “earnest, sincere, concerned” and reminds her of Dalinar. She respects him, and wishes there were more men like him. She misses the ancient days where a man who brought peace to his kingdom was considered with great worth. This shows what kind of person she holds in high esteem. This is rather different than the cold, heartless killer an outside view of the other scenes lead us to believe. This Jasnah desires peace, and genuinely respects and is fond of individuals who feel the same. Again, the outside view Shallan started with of Jasnah is beginning to conflict with the Jasnah she is truly getting to know. This is the second scene that shows how Jasnah deals with religion, vs how religion deals with her. Despite Shallan defending Jasnah, and showing that Jasnah is “not vocal unless provoked” Kabsal jumps to the conclusion that she must be ashamed then. This is also the second time we see people view Jasnah’s beliefs as “infectious”. As it disagreeing with the church is tantamount to being a disease. Makes you wonder what the church did to those Jasnah “corrupted”. Kabsal admits that the devoteries tend to force people to adopt certain glories and callings, while pushing them away from others. Women are urged to stay away from theology. Shallan then catches him and makes him admit that the reason he is pursuing Jasnah so much is for the distinction of being the one to convert her. He is not trying to understand her. Not trying to see her as a person. She is something to conquer. She is a trophy to be attained. When Jasnah arrives she shows she has no problem with Shallan speaking to whomsoever she wishes, even if the person is diametrically opposed to her. She just cautions Shallan because she is concerned he is using Shallan to get at her. Considering as we have learned how often this has been done to Jasnah in the past (and we even learn it is true of Kabsal), such a response makes sense. Jasnah is angry. Yet again is another person coming to belittle her beliefs and get her to “see the light”. Whereas with Taravangian Jasnah was respectful and considerate, with Kabsal she is hostile and picks him a part. This shows Jasnah does treat others in accordance with the way she is treated, and in Kabsal’s case she was right. Another example of Jasnah making a mistake, admitting it, and seeking to do better. She admits she unfairly judged Shallan. She encourages Shallan, and explains her process. She understands Shallan and is considerate of her as an individual. Another instance of proof of how Jasnah handles religion. She does not force Shallan to see things her way. She is not trying to corrupt Shallan to athiesm. Shallan is more than welcome to be as pious as she wishes around Jasnah. The only thing Jasnah requires, is questioning. Question yourself, question your superiors, question your world and always learn. We have now reached one of the big scenes for a lot of people regarding Jasnah. As the point of this post is to get to know Jasnah “the person”, I will not be commenting on the morality of what happened. I will focus on what specifically happened, and the why she did what she did. Having said that, lets begin. Jasnah leads Shallan on foot to a less reputable location in Kharbranth. During their walking, Jasnah takes off the glove covering her soulcaster to see better by. Shallan notices men watching them. Jasnah goes on a philosophical lecture on the nature of what it means to question versus accepting what one is told at face value. Youth versus experience. Jasnah then explains that the street they walk currently has on three separate occasions over the course of two months had theatergoers murdered. All three cases led to death, not “mere” robbery. Taravangian, the king himself has attempted to get the city watch in order to protect the street but with no success. The captain is connected to an influential light eyes. There is suspected bribery, but the fact of the matter is the street results in deaths, and there is no sign that the situation will change anytime soon if at all. So we have a clear statement that all attempts to reform the city guard, fix up the street, and or apprehend the murders have led to naught. That is the scenario Jasnah and Shallan walk into. Shallan notices dark shapes at the entrance of the alley where they came in, and at the other end. Jasnah and Shallan are now boxed in, with no escape in an alley know for murders. The individuals reveal themselves to be holding swords and knives. More support of their lethal intent. Finally by Shallan’s own thoughts, these men were out for their blood. These are men that clearly have lived each day knowing the noose is the only end they will see. Jasnah remains standing, and waits for the first guy to approach her. He swings his knife at her initiating the attack. Jasnah lifts her hand, touches him and changes him to fire. The other three are close enough that in their panic they trip over each other, and Jasnah (not needing to move other than to turn) reaches out and touches another man changing him to quartz. The last two men flee in opposite directions. Jasnah raises her hand and twin bolts of lightning shoot out and hit them at the same time turning them to smoke. Jasnah remains looking calm. They call a palanquin and ride it heading back to Jasnah’s rooms. During the ride they discuss what just happened. Again they discuss the ethics of it, but at the core here are some definiable pieces of information. The men were planning to beat, rob, and kill both Jasnah and Shallan. Jasnah and Shallan walked through an alley displaying wealth knowing the alley’s reputation for murder. The men are now dead and can no longer continue their practices. Shallan states Jasnah did it to prove a point, did it to prove she could. Jasnah responds that she did not do it to prove a point. She explains that she did it to help Taravangian with a problem he could not fix. She recognizes him associating with a known heretic can cost him a lot, so sought to balance the scales as it were and do him a good turn. Jasnah then comments about “men like those”, which does imply there is something personal for Jasnah in wanting to see murderers off the street. She then confirms that the actions in the alley way were actions she chose to do for herself, nothing to due with Shallan’s lesson. However she used her actions as an opportunity to ask further questions. So the men’s deaths was not for the lesson. It was a separate action Jasnah had intended to take unrelated to Shallan in an effort to help a man she respects accomplish defending the city he loves, with a hint of personal vendetta against murderers. Finally Jasnah does not try to paint her actions in a favorable light, nor try to convince Shallan to see things her way. She presents Shallan with questions for Shallan to find the answers to on her own, fully knowing the result could be turning Shallan against her or losing her ward. The scene closes (for the purpose of this post) with Shallan pointing out that Jasnah did not have to kill them all. Jasnah replies that Shallan doesn’t know that they would have stopped after that, and where as a careless barmaid walking home the wrong way cannot protect herself, Jasnah can and will. Shallan points out that Jasnah lacks the authority to take such action in this city, to which Jasnah concedes the point. However as brought up earlier in the scene, going based on the city, not even the king was able to stop the murders. So it appears not even the king had the “authority” to do anything about it. I did not include this scene because it is Shallan going over various in world philosophical thought on whether or not Jasnah’s actions were ethical. For myself, this post is to get to know Jasnah better as a person, both with favorable attributes and failings. I am not here to argue whether or not her actions were ethical. I am here to understand why she took the actions she did. So I have chosen to skip this scene. After two weeks of struggling with the morality and ethics of what happened with Jasnah, Shallan presents her findings. Despite Shallan disagreeing with Jasnah, Jasnah respects the process she went through to come to her conclusions. What is especially telling about this scene is when Jasnah muses on her use of the soulcasting. She says that she was “trying to do good” and that she “sometimes wonder if I should accomplish more with my soulcaster”. From Jasnah’s own mouth, she did not kill the men for cold, dispassionate reasons. She genuinely feels she was trying to make the world a better place and help Taravangian. This scene is telling for me, because Kabsal is admitting that even though Jasnah is well aware of what he is trying to accomplish (convert her) and why (for his own prestige), she still gives him well over an hour of her time (of which she barely can spare researching the end of the world) for him to make his case. Again, open to others beliefs. This scene I find very poignant and ironic at the same time. Here Kabsal is assuming Jasnah is seeking to disprove the existence of the voidbringers in an effort to disprove the existence of the Almighty to ultimately destroy the institution that is Vorinism. Why I find this ironic is because as we have seen on numerous occasions, Jasnah has take no action nor shown any inclination to “destroy” Vorinism. It has been Vorinism that has continually misrepresented her, harassed her, attempted to steal from her, and attempted to assassinate her. Yet Kabsal says “Haven’t we been scourged enough? The ardents are no threat to her”. His words seem to say one thing, but his, as well as his religion’s actions seem to say something quite different. Vorinism has made it very clear that Jasnah cannot just exist with her own beliefs. Her very existence is an afront worthy of harassment and death. Yet Jasnah is treated as if she is the actively antagonistic one. Naturally any person who is not a complete emotionless sociopath, when seeing someone close to them bleeding out on the ground would cry for help and do all they can to stop that person from dying. This is a great scene for showing Jasnah’s emotions and humanity. The moment the king allowed visitors to see Shallan, Jasnah was the first by her side. It is in fact revealed that Jasnah had postponed her research that she has pursued to the point of obsession to save the world, to be right outside where Shallan was recovering and be by her side the moment she could. After seeing Shallan was recovering, the first thing Jasnah does is apologize. She admits to being prideful, and worries she worked Shallan too hard. She then gives Shallan a wonderful compliment that Shallan could be one of the great scholars of her generation. Jasnah reproves herself for treating Shallan as she has (despite us knowing Shallan did in fact enjoy every bit of it, and said herself that Jasnah thinks she works her harder than she does) and understands Shallan’s seeming desire to return to her family. Jasnah then gifts Shallan the Book of Endless Pages. We see clearly how much this book means to Jasnah. Not only the book, but what it represents to her. This book is associated with a Vorin devotery. One she respects enough to cherish a book that represents one of their belief structures. She goes on to say that “you will find wise men in any religion, Shallan, and good men in every nation. Those who truly seek wisdom are those who will acknowledge the virtue of their adversaries and who will learn from those who disabuse them of error. All others - heretic, Vorin, Ysperist, or Maakian - are equally close-minded.” Jasnah respects any, regardless of religious affiliation, so long as that person truly seeks wisdom, is open to knowledge regardless the source, and will admit when they have made errors. As we have seen so far, all three that Jasnah herself holds to. Shallan then comes to the conclusion that Jasnah is not trying to disprove Vorinism based on how she hears Jasnah speak on religion. Then Kabsal arrives and we see another bout of humanity from Jasnah! She just got through thinking her student, who she cares deeply for nearly committed suicide from stress. Protective of Shallan (and dare I say in this case irrational?), Jasnah immediately tries to turn Kabsal away. Not because he is an ardent. Not because of their past problems, but because Jasnah is worried about Shallan. When Shallan then asserts it was not Kabsal’s fault, Jasnah stops and accepts Shallan’s overture to enjoy food together. Keep in mind Jasnah also does this despite the danger as she believes Kabsal to be a spy/assassin enough to suspect the jam is poisoned. She didn’t stop Shallan from eating the bread because she suspected it was safe. Unfortunately turns out Jasnah made a mistake, and it was the reverse. Again Jasnah is freaking out that Shallan is dying and is doing all she can to save her. Shallan then reveals she stole the soulcaster from Jasnah. Had Jasnah not cared about Shallan. Had Jasnah been cold and emotionless, she could have easily claimed she tried to save Shallan but the poison was too fast and let her die. Jasnah’s secret would have been safe from a thief pretending to be a ward and an assassin pretending to be an ardent. Yet Jasnah saved Shallan’s life. Let’s review from Jasnah’s perspective what she just found out. The ardent that she suspected was out to kill her, despite Shallan’s urging to give him a chance, was in fact out to kill her. The ward that Jasnah has begun to care and trust against her better judgement (due to being busy researching the end of the world) seemingly attempted suicide after stealing Jasnah’s soulcaster and betraying her. Quite the rollercoaster ride of emotions wouldn’t you say? So saying Jasnah is feeling angry, betrayed and emotionally hurt would be an understatement. Jasnah saved Shallan’s life. Despite the betrayal and all that means, Jasnah still saved her when it would have been far easier, and accomplish so much more to just let her die. Why? Because Jasnah cares for Shallan. Even when scolding Shallan for her betrayal, Jasnah laments the future Shallan could have had. I also find it interesting that when Jasnah explains to Shallan how stealing the soulcaster would upset the Ardentia as well as Alethkar, she says “do you realize what my brother would have done if he’d learned of this?”. Not Jasnah. Her brother. He is the one that would have taken it as a personal offense and pursued her. Despite all of this, Jasnah still sympathizes with Shallan’s youth, and arranges her passage home. Jasnah had every right to have Shallan locked up or even potentially executed for the theft. Instead she opts to let Shallan go, while expressing how regretful she is that Shallan destroyed her own future on a mad scheme. She expected better of Shallan, and was disappointed. Talking about next scene. The first line shows what Jasnah could have done to Shallan if she so chose to. Jasnah could lock her up in prison for the rest of her young life. Yet Jasnah arranged passage for Shallan to return home. She….let….her....go. That to me is the action of a caring individual towards someone who hurt and disappointed them. Not cold and emotionless. Shallan then explains what happened during the assassination. Jasnah first thought the jame was poisoned, so soulcasted it. Then she thought her bread in particular was poisoned so soulcasted it as well. Shallan had eaten the bread in the past on numerous occasions with no ill effects, so Jasnah had no reason to think Shallan’s life was in danger. She only changed the portions she was specifically offered, believing that Kabsal would have arranged it that way. Almost unfortunately for Shallan, she was wrong. Thankfully despite the betrayal, and every sign that Shallan was in league with Kabsal the assassin, Jasnah still saved Shallan’s life. Now let’s rehash what Shallan just revealed to Jasnah before she soulcasts. She admitted she stole from Jasnah. She admitted she lied about her suicide attempt. Finally she admitted she knows Jasnah’s secret. A cold, calculating, and emotionless person would be thinking of all the ways she could remove Shallan before word gets out, or be manipulated by her. Shallan however, obliges without being asked, and soulcasts resulting in her drowning in beads. All Jasnah would have had to do was stand by and Shallan would have died. She could have then arranged it to look like she committed suicide in front of Jasnah after being emotionally distraught from being discovered, and then Jasnah’s secret is safe. What does Jasnah do? She saves Shallan again. After returning her to her body, Jasnah angrily admonishes her as an idiot. Why? Because soulcasting is incredibly dangerous (as Jasnah herself discovered in the flash back in Words of Radiance, which I get to later in this post) to begin with and on top of that Shallan used a dim sphere, increasing the danger. Which says to me that Jasnah was worried about Shallan’s well-being. She was worried Shallan could have gotten hurt. Shallan believes it is because she has Jasnah trapped due to the information she has, but as I explained, if that was the case Jasnah could have easily “removed” her on multiple occasions. Shallan then begs Jasnah to let her be a part of her research, and Jasnah lets her. Still when speaking of religion, there is not a hint of personal vendetta, nor enmity. It is calm reflection. Religion takes natural phenomena and ascribes supernatural causes such as a deity. Science, and by extension Jasnah, seeks to take supernatural events and find a natural cause. It is through this that she was able to reason the connection between the voidbringers and the parshmen. This is the research she has been obsessing over due to fear of everyone she loves being killed. It is like discovering your house pet (cat, dog, bird, etc) can at a moments notice change into a monster bent on the death of you and everyone you love. On top of that, feeling utterly powerless to stop it. Later scenes I cover delve into this further. By Jasnah’s own words, she is terrified. She essentially found out all across Roshar are mini nukes just waiting to be activated to go off. The past desolations were literal apocalypse level events. Despite this, she does not call for their extinction. She calls for more information. They need to understand more. They need to learn more. Realizing the parshmen are the voidbringers are not enough. She wants to learn how and why they change to hopefully prevent it. She is also afraid that other groups will want this information to take control of the parshmen and use them against them. We later learn in Oathbringer the validity of this theory. The ghostbloods want to keep both sides balanced, so they can gain greater power. Jasnah is trying to stop it. Amaram is trying to cause it so the Heralds return and the church returns to its dominance. I think that speaks volumes for Jasnah. She is not using it for personal gain. She is trying to protect the ones she loves. Here we get the first taste of the reaction Jasnah’s “heresy” incited. Stares and gossip over such an unprecedented occurrence. Dalinar getting drunk and creating a scene is considered normal and understandable by proxy. Jasnah knew the reaction she was going to get, but she did it anyway. I think we get a taste, a hint of the thirst for knowledge and the implaccable determination that drives Jasnah forward. She is very much alone and will be isolated for this from the nobility and in some ways from her family (namely her father). Despite that, Jasnah stands firm in her convictions. I like the juxtaposition of this scene, because just when we see Jasnah’s inner strength, we also see how vulnerable she can be. Her own shadow is betraying her. She instantly feels a spike of anxiety and nausea. Ultimately she is able to gather herself, but we see in a bit this is only the beginning. She runs into her father, and I think he is being unfair to her. His daughter prefers to avoid drunken loud parties, and he admonishes her for it. A man that we have confirmation from WoB tends to use people (including his own brother) more as tools than as people. Then, showing his lack of understanding for his daughter, urges her once more towards Amaram. What I also find interesting is Jasnah realizes her father looks at her with mistrust while back in Way of Kings we see Dalinar greatly trusts and depends on her enough to ask her on numerous occasions to come to the Shattered Plains for her support. Then we come to the part that begins to show us what logic and rational thought are to Jasnah. They are her armor and shield. They protect her, but that does not mean behind that armor that a heart of emotion does not beat. We have seen numerous examples so far of how emotional and human Jasnah is, and I still have many more to cover (in fact far more than even I recalled). When Jasnah is confronted by the inkspren and falls into Shadesmar she felt fear, and uncertainty. She drew upon logic to guide her and help her through it. She drew upon the love of her family and her desire to protect them. She faced her fears, and survived a near death experience. It is this experience that causes her to be so hard on Shallan regarding soulcasting. She realizes she could have died, and worries the same might happen to Shallan. She is not keeping information from Shallan, she is trying to protect her and keep her safe. Jasnah meets with the assassin and she instructs her to watch only. Jasnah feels she needs more information. She finds assassination distasteful, and will seek other avenues if possible, but will use it if necessary. This proves just because she considers a possibility, does not mean she will follow through on it because Aesudan doesn’t get assassinated. Given what we find out in Oathbringer, perhaps she should have been, but we do know the reason she wasn’t was because Jasnah stayed her hand. We also know as per WoB, that the reason she considered assassinating Aesudan to begin with was to protect her family whom she loves. Her standing orders with all assassins is if they are offered a job to kill her family, she will meet and exceed what they are being paid to give Jasnah information on who hired them. Again, protecting. Jasnah muses about how she looked into and vetted just about everyone at the party, again focusing on protecting the people she loves. Then Jasnah hears the drums stop, and screaming. What is the first thing she thinks/does? She thinks of her family and runs towards the screaming. She thinks to herself about her father looking at her with suspicion in the same sentence as her thinking about the shadows coming to life. The shadows coming to life was a scary moment for her. She became nauseous with anxiety. She couples her father’s distrust with that experience. To me that says she loves her father, and was hurt by his distrust. “Control yourself, control…. She couldn’t. Now now. Frantic, she ran into the quarters, though a Shardbearer would kill her with ease. She wasn’t thinking straight”. That clearly shows an emotional, caring, fearful, loving Jasnah. She knowingly is putting herself in danger. A danger that would spell her doom, all to be there for her father. She then gets to experience a front row seat of the death of her father. His final moments. She has to watch him fall to his death. She screams and runs to the edge. She cries for the loss of her father. For her family she tried so hard to protect. This extends to the great weight she puts on her shoulders to stop the desolation. She is now trying to protect the world. The parshendi leaders then claim credit for the death of her father, that she just had to watch, and now speak to her calmly practically over his corpse. Angry and confused Jasnah demands answers. Sadeas then comes into the room and takes over. Jasnah then states “There will be war, and I will not stand in its way”. She did not swear vengeance, nor declare war on the parshendi people like Elhokar did. She did not call for their extermination and hunting down of every single last one of them as Elhokar and Sadeas did. Jasnah realized this act would lead to war, and hurt and betrayed, she states she will not try to stop it. That says to me normally she would. That she would make efforts to stop wars. Otherwise why even say that? This is supported considering all her subsequent efforts of research are to prevent the greatest and worst war her planet has ever known. The Desolations. We get to hear more of Shallan’s musings on Jasnah. What is interesting, is even while Shallan has an idealized view of Jasnah, she is also learning to see beneath the surface. It is not that Jasnah does not care what people think. It is Jasnah understands that how you present yourself, and carry yourself will affect how people perceive you. As a princess to the most powerful nation in the world, she has been raised to understand this, and know how to use it. Jasnah also has no problem “getting dirty” by sitting on the boxes on the deck in order to talk to her ward in a scenario and manner that is more comfortable to Shallan. Once again, (noticing so many that this is getting downright repetitive lol) Jasnah shows understanding to others beliefs, even if they do not align with her own. The sailors have “superstitions” that the santhid is lucky. Instead of making the sailor feel stupid, or deride him for such beliefs, Jasnah nods, says “I shall take any fortune provided me, Nanhel Eltorv”. She acknowledges his belief, and even makes a point to use his name, showing she is considerate enough to know them as people, and not mere servants. Shallan tries to get Jasnah to say she thinks them fools. Instead Jasnah is respectful and complimentary of the captain and his crews sailing capabilities. To me the message is clear. It does not matter your religious inclinations so long as they do not intrude on your capabilities in accomplishing your job. Jasnah then begins to teach Shallan about Shadesmar. This is a great part because we learn quite a few things about Jasnah. First, this enforces what I wrote earlier as to why Jasnah ordered Shallan not to soulcast. She says so herself, she nearly died in her first experience with Shadesmar. She does not want the same for Shallan. Jasnah was protecting her out of concern for her wellbeing. As Jasnah explains, she also admits her own ignorance. She states that she has been researching it for 6 years and has barely scratched the surface of understanding the place. That even as she tries to explain it, she refers to it in an erroneous manner. We then get the best quote that encapsulates Shallan’s view of Jasnah and for me why there are so many incorrect readings of her. “Jasnah grimaced at the thought. Shallan was always surprised to see visible emotion from her. Emotion was something relatable, something human - and Shallan’s mental image of Jasnah Kholin was of someone almost divine.” Jasnah, to Shallan, is everything she wishes she could be. But that impression is mostly surface. A hard diamond surface that I hope through typing this long post shows is not the real Jasnah. The real Jasnah has emotions. She loves. She cries. She gets angry. She makes mistakes. She learns from them. She is human. Even as Jasnah takes joy in teaching Shallan, and their burgeoning relationship, the fact Shallan exists terrifies her. For Jasnah it means the end really is coming. Jasnah knowing the enormity of their upcoming task, and what she will be asking of Shallan for her to help her, Jasnah helps preserve Shallan’s family so Shallan can focus on the voidbringers. Despite knowing the “cold” necessity given the impending danger, Jasnah is still considerate of Shallan. She only inquired about the possibility of setting up a casual between Adolin and Shallan. It was Navani that jumped on it with a gusto and got things moving forward so quickly. Even though it ultimately was not Jasnah’s fault, she still apologizes to Shallan. Even though this solution is perfectly logical, and would solve all the issues, she still checks with Shallan. She makes sure Shallan knows she can change her mind. She checks to see if it bothered Shallan. All things someone who cares for another individual, and is considerate of others feelings would do. We then get a master class as Jasnah explains how her authority works, and about perception. We practically get a blow by blow reveal that the Jasnah everyone is “so scared of” and sees as “cold and emotionless”, is not actually Jasnah. It is a Jasnah she presents in order to exist within the Alethi court. It is a Jasnah she presents in order to stand up to the Vorin church. It is a Jasnah she presents in order to accomplish the goals she needs to stop the end of the world. But that is not all there is to Jasnah. There is a Jasnah inside people very rarely get to see. And to me that is the real Jasnah. I think this scene gives us some wonderful hints into Jasnah’s character. First we have Ivory who is uncomfortable being discussed. Jasnah is not keeping this information from Shallan out of control, nor pettiness towards the betrayal. She is doing it out of consideration and respect towards her spren. We then see yet another example of how Jasnah does not tell Shallan how to think. Jasnah asks Shallan questions, and allows her to derive her own conclusions. Jasnah even takes the fact that Shallan is devout into consideration when discussing religion. She apologizes for going off on what she terms a tangent because she forgot how such words would make Shallan feel as a believer. When pressed, Jasnah explains that it is not personal against Vorinism. She holds the same standard to all the world’s religions. Most of all we reach a favorite quote of mine that I tend to use in response to people who say Jasnah would have to re-evaluate her beliefs when she meets a shard. She says “I merely claimed that I do not accept him as God, nor do I feel any inclination to worship him”. She realizes and accepts there are beings running around with powers beyond her. However, this does not mean they should be worshipped. She is a being with powers beyond other people. Does that mean she should be worshipped? Here is another wonderful scene that shows the depth of Jasnah’s character. It begins with Shallan remarking to herself how people naturally defer to Jasnah without her even having to ask. So we could potentially theorize that Jasnah did not even ask for the captain’s quarters. That he provided them because he assumed that is what a princess would want. Shallan peaks in on Jasnah, and for the first time sees Jasnah without her armor completely up. And what does she find? Jasnah red eyed, exhausted, and terrified. The “divine” Jasnah that Shallan thinks is impervious to all things and can accomplish anything, is about ready to collapse and feels powerless to save the ones she loves. Despite this terror, Jasnah pulls herself together, puts on her “mask”, and tries to reassure Shallan. She is trying to be strong for Shallan. Jasnah is afraid she will be too late, just like she was too late to stop the death of her father. She has tried warning everyone, but no one will listen. Despite the threat, her warning isn’t even to kill the parshmen. Her warning is to let them go. To keep them away from large population centers to try and avoid the level of devastation and death all the texts speak of. A warning Dalinar takes to heart and employs when he leaves for the Shattered Plains. He does not execute them, he lets them go. Yet again we find out in Kholinar the same thing. The warning Jasnah gave, that Dalinar related to Kholinar was to let them go. She is desperate for more information, more proof to show her findings are true. To convince as many people as she can, so she can save as many lives as she can. On top of that is the hope that Urithiru is safe. A last bastion that humanity could retreat to. So taking a step out of the books for a second to look at a deleted scene. Brandon sometimes does these to discovery write a character so he can get himself into the frame of mind to write them. I do not recall if this is counted as canon or not, but I think it gives us a great look into Jasnah’s head so I am going to comment on it. This is what happened to Jasnah after she was stabbed on the boat. She escaped to Shadesmar. We do not see her exult in victory for escaping. We do not see her run off and forget the people on the ship. What we find out is first, she was pulled out by Ivory, so she did not intend to abandon Shallan nor the people on the ship. Second, her first thoughts once she calms down after her near death experience is Shallan and going back to help her. Her next thought is realizing the sailors are being executed and wanting to help/save them as well. It is only because she does not have enough stormlight to do so, that she doesn’t. She literally can’t. Despite the danger of Shadesmar. Despite the warning of Ivory about the grinders coming, Jasnah uses the last of her stormlight to free the sailors. To try somehow in someway to help save them. Nothing much to add here. Another example of how Shallan views Jasnah. Another example of the emotions shared between them. Shallan is genuinely sad over the loss of Jasnah. I included this scene because I feel through Shallan it gives us a look into Jasnah’s head. Everyone sees what Jasnah projects, but they rarely see what goes on in her head. This is what Shallan experiences and I do not think it a stretch to theorize that perhaps Jasnah went through a similar beginning. Learning how to project confidence and strength, even when inside you are scared. Shallan realizing and commenting to herself that just because Jasnah appeared dispassionate, does not mean she was actually dispassionate. In fact because of that moment on the ship, Shallan realizes the truth was quite different. Jasnah is deeply worried, and driving herself harder than anyone else to stop the end. This is a great moment. Shallan realizes that despite Jasnah saying she considers art a frivolity, Jasnah still held onto the drawing Shallan made of her. She kept it among her most precious things. If that isn’t a sign Jasnah cares for Shallan I don’t know what would. Yet another quote showing the great burden Jasnah was toiling under. It has surprised me how many times these things are mentioned. Far more than I initially thought. Perhaps since these thoughts are but a few lines, with a lot of space between, it is easy to pass over them. Seeing them lined up one after the other though seems to really hammer it home for me. I wanted to include this quote, because I found it interesting that despite Adolin’s excitement for the pending nuptials, he still considers Jasnah “manipulating” him. Despite this we know the reality of the situation is it was Navani that urged it forward, and my very next quote in Words of Radiance has Shallan setting things straight. From Shallan’s own lips. Jasnah just brought the idea forward for them to consider it. Any pressure would come more from Navani, and any other (potential) societal norms. But Jasnah was most certainly not forcing the two together. This is an excerpt from one of Jasnah’s published writings. I really like this mention because it shows what is a priority to Jasnah. Personal choice. She is not condemning any women for choosing to be a wife. Nor is she saying only the scholarly life is of any worth. She is arguing a woman should have a right to choose between them if she so desires. I think this might be part of what led Jasnah to atheism. Feeling liberated from a belief structure whose rules restrict asking of questions, and force gender roles. I think it says a lot for her strength of character that Jasnah chose the path she did. I find this scene, and a few others below interesting because it brings us back to the outside view of Jasnah. The view other people hold of her. Cold, and distant. Meanwhile I feel our journey through Way of Kings and Words of Radiance show us a very different picture. I wonder if this was intention on Brandon’s part. As if to say “here is Jasnah as we know her. Then here is the Jasnah we get to know. Now ask yourself how you feel when you hear people talk about Jasnah this way after we got to know her on a deeper level”. At the same time this also adds depth to the mystery that is Jasnah. What happened to Jasnah to change her from Navani’s little girl, so full of questions? So that is the end of Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. There is perhaps one more quote I wanted to include in Words of Radiance, but I think I will settle for first seeing the response to this.

Not sure if you saw my edit or not, but I added that Jasnah could soulcast aluminum coarse dust in Kaladin's face. The windspren would not be able to affect it, and we have seen Kaladin be overwhelmed and stunned plenty of times in the books. He wouldn't be able to heal from it being in his eyes and in his lungs, and that would give Jasnah plenty of time to ram the aluminum harpoon home through his eye into his brain. He wouldn't be able to heal it, so it would be treated as a normal wound so could potentially kill him outright. Or, since it is barbed, he would be ripping a huge chunk of his brain out which at the very least would take quite a bit of stormlight to repair, during which Jasnah could be stabbing him with additional aluminum harpoons, and smashing his plate with her shardblade. edit: to help the image, I am talking about tiny bits of coarse metal that can act like sandpaper across the eyes, and the mucus membranes in the nose, throat, and lungs. It would be soulcasted directly in his face, so no dodging it, and even if the windspren could affect it (which they couldn't because it is aluminum), it would be too late because it would have already gotten into his eyes, and breathed in.

Jasnah does not need to make a gesture or any overt outside motion to soulcast. Kaladin gets blinded by dust, or finely ground up glass soulcasted right in his face. Stunned, jasnah brings her hand forward as she soulcasts a barbed aluminum knife/harpoon, driving it into Kaladin's eye into the brain. Battlefield experience is great, but you can only respond to so much when so much is going on. And before you mention the "atium like" effect Kaladin got from "dancing with the wind", aluminum does not leave any atium shadows. So if whatever Kaladin did in that moment was supernatural in any way, the aluminum would counter that. Yes she can soulcast Syl. It would require far more investiture than is feasible, but they can be soulcasted. Do you have a WoB to back that up about 5th oath knight radiant? I do not recall reading that. edit: actually even better, soulcast a fine abrasive powder of aluminum directly in his face causing him to be blinded and inhale it. While his eyes are damaged and his breathing is choked up (both unable to be healed), then as I said, ram the barbed aluminum harpoon through the eye slot finishing him off.

If Kaladin and Jasnah are of equal oaths, then that (potentially) means they can hold the same amount of stormlight. Shardplate can be damaged (I am referring to the radiant plate scratched and cracked by the midnight essence in Dalinar's vision). I do not think it a stretch that Jasnah could break Kaladin's armor enough, and use the rest of her stormlight to potentially get through the investiture to transform him directly. True radiant shardplate increases strength and speed, but it is still at the mercy of the one using it. Dust in the eyes, followed up by sudden obstacles to crash into while flying are still very much risks to a 5th oath Kaladin. We also know when aluminum is driven into a person that has a healing power, the wound cannot heal. Jasnah could soulcast a few barbed spears made of aluminum. After shattering some of Kaladin's armor with the trick I mentioned, she could ram them into exposed portions of his body. Kaladin would have to rip them out in order to heal from them. Given that they are barbed, ripping them out would cause even greater damage, draining Kaladin's stormlight reserve. Or even better, ram the barbed spears through Kaladin's eye holes, mincing up his brain, preventing stormlight healing, and Kal dies. Kurkistan What would happen if you shot a thug with an aluminum bullet or stabbed him with an aluminum knife? Brandon Sanderson Ah, that's a good question. The wound would not be able to heal around the aluminum, but once the aluminum came out and was gone from the system, they would be okay. Kurkistan Wait, is that a Bloodmaker, not a Thug? Brandon Sanderson Oh, you're talking about Thugs? It would work similarly, but it really wouldn't have a huge effect on them. Kurkistan Alright, because Peter was implying that there was some weird aluminum interaction with Thugs. Brandon Sanderson What was he thinking of...? There is some weird interaction but... Kurkistan In the wedding scene, Wax thinks they would have aluminum bullets to deal with Thugs, and I was like, "Oh, that's a typo." And Peter was like, "Oh no it's not..." Brandon Sanderson No, no. That would just be-- it's like I said: healing it until the bullet is gone, it's just the same as Bloodmakers.

This is a response to @RShara and @calderis in one go. Lol I found it late last night. I was having trouble locating it because I couldn't think of the right search terms, so ended up having to type in Syl and go entry by entry by the time I got there. You both are totally right, and I happily concede and have learned something more. My one consolation is that the WoB shows I wasn't completely nuts and got the idea from somewhere lol. Thank you both for going through the trouble of pulling up the scenes! I do appreciate it.

Yet from what I recall of her conversation with Kaladin (still trying to find it), she says the old man was barely in a single battle before he died. But again, I admit the WoB could be open to interpretation. I just take "has been with other men" as "other" means other than Kaladin, her bonded radiant, and "men" meaning multiple. Will try to find that scene to find out more.

Found it! "Men" to me denotes plural, though I admit it can be open to interpretation Questioner When Syl says in The Way of Kings that she had been with other men who have killed. Is she-- Why is she able to say that? Brandon Sanderson Syl's memories, the longer she's bonded the more access to them she has, from times before. She knows some of these things. She'll never get it all back. Questioner From the time before Kaladin. Brandon Sanderson From before Kaladin, from before the Recreance, yes.

Ah gotcha. I was thinking of this one, though I could have sworn there was one that specifically stated as such. Will do a bit more digging. Blightsong [PENDING REVIEW] What did Ivory mean by the Skybreakers living in death? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Ivory likes contradictions, they fascinate him. And he is saying that they live in death in that they kill a lot. It's a philosophical sort of thing. He's making an Ivory observation, it's not something you're supposed to take as a pronouncement of nature or reality. edit: yep so it looks like that was the WoB that made me think that. Thanks for the added info! I forgot that portion of the scene

I know about the old man, that was who I was referencing, but I thought he was only the most recent prior to her going comatose. I just want to do a little digging to see if I am nuts, or there is something to my madness.

I would have to check to be sure, but if I recall correctly yes she was in the early stages, but it was because the old man was the most recent radiant she bonded, and because he died relatively quickly during the desolation, she ended up weak and "asleep" during the recreance. But again I will need to verify my recollection

I thought the reason Ivory picked his name is because he found contradictions very interesting? Could you provide your reference? Not saying I disagree or don't like the idea, just that it is the first I am hearing of it.

There is also Syl to consider. Just because she suffered from some "brain damage" doesn't change she is an ancient spren that bonded multiple times and is slowly regaining her memories of that time.

Lol, sorry for being MIA and not getting back to you. Glad you found the scenes and it made you happy! It was fresh in my mind because I am typing up a character analysis of Jasnah in an effort to show her humanity. I am almost done with Way of Kings, then going to cover Words of Radiance and finally Oathbringer. I hope it doesn't take me too longer to finish.