Pathfinder

Just wanted to say, thisssss isssss sssssome awssssomenesssssss

My work addled brain thanks you!

Not that I don't believe you, just that seems to be a gap in my mind. When did Jasnah show a sword? I think my mind is hazily recalling when she sees Wit? Lol this is going to bother me now that I can't remember .

Insane or not, if you take a moon land denier to the moon and show them the foot prints, show them the flag, etc I estimate they will at least START to go "hmmmm ya know what.....you miiiiiight be right"

I love elsecallers and all, but to point out WoB has shown not ALL radiants use shardplate, so you are assuming elsecallers get them when we have not seen Jasnah with blade nor plate. As well as the storm father stated Dalinar gets neither, so it is possible to have a spren but not have a spren blade

I am not offended so no worries, but I will admit I do not have your faith that you hold that organized religions have systems in place to account for inconsistencies. In fact I believe many are rife with inconsistencies, but that is a debate/discussion for another day lol. I would disagree with you regarding honorblades being seen as holy objects to protect the creators from the warriors. Yes they guarded them for countless years, but they did also just give one to an individual they cast out into the world. Theoretically it would be rather difficult to protect yourself with a weapon that you pretty much give away. Yes in this case they have more honor blades than Szeth, but another one is gone, one is still in the possession of Taln, so the number of blades owned seems to be dwindling rather quickly. If you have a weapon for your own protection, you don't let that resource leave your possession easily. Regardless whether they intend to "pick it up later". Again I am not saying the shaman's don't have a group focused on training with the blades and using them, but I disagree that it would be the shamans themselves, and the individuals that use it be cast in any positive light by their society. Otherwise an already corrupt legal system edifaced by Szeth, would be even more so. "Hey holding weapons is bad, and your the lowest of the low. Except if you are like us shamans. we can hold them and kill with them. But all warrior are the bottom of the barrel. Except us, don't forget that, we are awesome, so um yeah."

Also I would like to put forward consider their power source. A mistborn has all the various metals to draw various abilities from. If a mistborn runs out of pewter, he or she still has steel, iron, and etc. If a knight radiant is out of stormlight, then there goes their healing, their speed, their strength, AND all the abilities of their order. Theoretically if anyone has the knowledge of metalurgy and knows the required percentages of burnable metals, then anyone could keep themselves well stocked for their powersource (I understand how the magic system actually works, and that the metals aren't power sources themselves, but I am using it as a catch all in this case for what they accomplish). Conversely when a knight radiant (as far as we have seen), runs out of stormlight, they need to wait for another highstorm to recharge their gems. Unless of course they do like Kal and fight IN THE MIDDLE of a highstorm lol

Only problem with that is it is stated throughout the books that farmers are viewed in the highest regard as creators while warriors are viewed as the lowest as destroyers. I am not saying I disagree with the notion of having a group trained in the honorblades, but based on their tenets, I would see the wielders of the swords still seen as very low in the hierarchy. Like a necessary evil. Kind of like how the untouchables are viewed in India for instance (if that comparison offended anyone or misrepresented that culture I apologize, that was not my intent). One other thing though I could see your theory making sense. If the shamanate LIED and though they teach warriors of any sort are bad, they in fact say so, so they can hold the power for themselves and if the radiants return, they lose that power edit: also regarding surgebinding alone. From what I understand there are only 3 ways to surgebinder, if you are a herald, if you are a knight radiant, or if you have a fabrial. So if my assumptions are correct, then a shin would need to pick up a honorblade to surgebind. The merchant in the beginning of WoK, explained to his assistant that any who pick up a weapon are cast in this light. So just by holding the honorblade, regardless how the surgebinding is employed, would cast them as a warrior and thereby a low class.

Could it be as simple as Renarian attempted to lightweave, but being unpracticed, it didn't fully form so Relis just pauses confused by what might have flickered before his vision, disregarded it and then continued what he was doing?

It could be argued that is due to the combination of force from the push of the coinshot coupled with the force of the pull from the lurcher redirecting it. Versus what happens when two coinshots push on the same coin?

I haven't read the mistborn trilogy in awhile but I do not recall there ever being a time where a mistborn shoots a penny at a person, and it goes through them and chips a wall or gets lodged in a wall. Every instance that involves a wall results in the allomancer getting pushed in the opposite direction. The only instance (admittedly this is based on my recollection) where an allomancer pierces a wall, is in Wax's case, when he increasing his own weight AND firing a bullet he pushes on to increase its penetration. Neither of which Kel can do with only coins. He cannot alter his weight to add umph to his push, and the push is reliant on his own allomantic strength, not the addition of the gun's propulsion. So based on that, I think like others have said, he may very well only end up pushing himself AWAY from Dalinar than actually hurting the armor. Also in response to Dalinar not knowing how to defeat a mistborn, vs Kelsier knowing how to deal with the plate and blade. Kelsier doesn't know a shardblade cuts through ANYTHING. Hypothetically if Kelsier attempts to deflect the blade with a blade of his own (i know he uses daggers normally, just using this hypothetical as an example), then suddenly he finds the sword slide through whatever he used to deflect it, and continue through his body.

Get an apartment with a high vaulted ceiling. Have your living room on the floor, and your bed room on the ceiling. Saves space (as a windrunner)

I will definitely check out the thread because what you posit is interesting. In the meantime I did want to state how I find it funny/awesome how a good portion of the current threads on the boards involve "will so and so become a knights radiant?". Its like one giant game of who done it and everyone has a theory lol

Not saying all you stated did not contribute, I am in agreement with you, but just to add additional information, Brandon has stated that Kaladin suffers from seasonal depression. It is why Tien helps him out of it, and it becomes so consuming after Tien dies.

Ahhhhh, good thing I checked then lolol

@Bloodfalcon ah sorry for dragging you back into this then lol. @ Moogle I respond to your query thusly....no. YOU posited that his feelings regarding an afterlife was a "small" reason. YOU posited that the "smallness" of this reason was a valid cause this disregard the reason. So YOU can define how you came to the conclusion it was "small" and since you connected it to the scenario with Dalinar, YOU can apply the same reasoning to his situation and prove that it is applicable in both cases. By turning around and telling ME to define YOUR argument is a logical fallacy. It requires ME to do YOUR leg work, when my argument against it is that it is not a legitimate reason given that you have no evidence to back it up. By ME then defining it, I am thereby giving it validity, and proving your own point by trying to disprove it. You came up with the theory, so you provide the evidence supporting it.

Do you have anything to verify that, or that is your interpretation? Just so I am on the same page.

That is why I think there is something more to this, like you said your self it is seldom for Brandon to have a coincidence. On two to three separate occasions it is mentioned how Tien is just a year younger than Kal, but everyone sees him as childish. It is mentioned two or three times how shin look childish. I could accept this as just Tien acting young and such, but then Brandon could have made him any age. Why bring up 3 times how he is only a YEAR YOUNGER but looks so much younger? As I type this it occurs to me that it is to show Kaladin's enforced maturity at so young, but that still feels like a stretch. Outsiders have commented on how shin oathstones seem worthless to everyone else. That there seems to be nothing special about them, and yet a shin warrior can identify his own from countless others. Even if he is not shin, like Kobold King said, there could be something going on with stone shamanism causing these appearances.

i forget the page number but navani allows dalinar to watch the ardents soulcast a wall into being for fortifications. he comments how it is odd that air seems to be pulled TOWARDS it instead of displaced AWAY. that implication is for me based on jasnah's and shallan's that the very air is transformed into stone, so the air is drawn in to have enough mass to make the wall edit:word of radiance page 419 for reference edit2: which is also where i thought it said they die if they soulcast too much. upon checking, it did not state that. instead it stated that due to being overworked, they need to train new people as well as take shifts. but death as result of too much soulcasting is not stated. for some reason i still think i saw that somewhere but till i locate it, it seems soulcast fatality is a mistake

Ah, now I understand what you are saying and agree with the first part. It is a form of hypocritical narcissism for such an individual to assume they have the monopoly on truth regarding the afterlife that they never experienced themselves. Now regarding Szeth never confronting an alternative world view? That I disagree with. He is CONTINUALLY surrounded by alternative world views. In fact I would hazard he was from the moment he left Shinovar. You mean he had to sit down and have a debate over tea with someone who held an opposing view to constitute confronting a different world view? lol. You don't have to wax poetic about morals to see how people live differently, and in Szeth's case, he clearly sees people who fear different things and fight for different causes. Just seeing how the Alethi hold warriors in high esteem from the clothing they wear vs the shin warriors shows an alternative world view. If your response will be that this doesn't tie directly to damnation i again disagree. If his society views all warriors as the lowest of the low, and they must follow the orders of anyone with an oath stone, and then he sees other warriors treated with respect and lauded for their skills, could that not cause a crisis of faith? Like Lirin and Kaladin. Lirin feels you cannot protect someone with violence, Kal does. I think this would especially apply to a legal society that is so rigid. A legal structure that cannot bend will break. It is why case law enacted by judges try to be as broad as possible. Because where lawyers get you is in the details. When "the" is the second word in a sentence instead of the fourth. So if you deal in absolutes, and you disprove one, it calls them ALL into question.

If this wasn't Brandon's plan to begin with, it should be now lolol

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I have a theory that the reason Tien sees faces in the rocks is that he is a stone shaman, and he is possibly half shin (whether by adoption, or extra marital affair), due to him being only a year younger than kaladin but looks much younger.

LOL based on your description I pictured the opening of Stones Unhallowed like the ending of Godfather. Scene after scene of sudden assassinations, and then Ialai in the process of marrying another highprince lolol

@Aether could you explain your first sentence a bit more? I honestly am a bit confused and would like to understand. Other than that, from Taravangian on I am with you and agree with your assessment. @Moogle Ok so first time I read what you wrote I was going to make the following arguments off the bat. Having re-read it a few times, I realize you may have misunderstood my point and by extension Bloodfalcon's (this is stated with much reservation as this is my interpretation and bloodfalcon has not rung in yet to speak for him or herself, so I do not want to misrepresent him or her). I never said it was the SOLE reason he did as he did, nor do I feel it has to be the SOLE reason for him to be considered a coward. Now this leads to a point I state with trepidation because I do not want to sound offensive, but if we are going to nitpick as to how much he did something for some reason vs another to be whether or not he is cowardly, then please define what percentage is required for him to chose a reason to do as he does, in order for it to be valid to determine his honor or cowardice? And please after you define the percentage, please also define the requirement to determine the percentage? Is it how many times it comes up in the book? Or how angsty he acts when he does? How much he cries? By saying saying that reason doesn't apply because you think it is a small reason is purely subjective unless you can site a gauge to determine it by. Otherwise I would posit the fact that it IS a reason when placed next to his action of MURDERING people, makes it valid regardless the frequency it is stated in the book. Now all of this is tempered by I most definitely agree with you, if that was the ONLY reason why he did what he did, Nale would not have given him a second glance. Further, the simple fact that a herald who is supposedly supposed to be the embodiment of an aspect of honor choosing Szeth himself to join, proves on some level at least someone thinks Szeth's actions are a valid expression of honor. All this really means in the end, is I would end up in the windrunner camp of this debate and you would end up in the skybreakers (i personally fancy myself an elsecaller, I am merely equating this with their moral divide in orders which I think resulted in the very formation of their orders being diametrically opposed). Also, though it can be said Nale is corrupted as others in this forum have expressed, I do not believe he is. I do not have the resources/knowledge to prove this, but in my gut i believe this is true.

Well by his own words, his father thinks he is a better man, but he says he is not. So technically we don't know what he is fully capable of. I agree I think he would rise above and reveal himself, I was just positing like everyone else how things could potentially develop after Sadeus's death. I am with you on that. I could even see Ialai setting things up to point to someone in Dalinar's camp, knowing Adolin would stand up and take the blame. Yes that is a slight stretch, but just spitballing