Pathfinder

@king of nowhere, thank you for addressing those points on pushes and pulls. It was something I was wondering for awhile but didn't recall instances to support one way or the other Regarding the potential population of allomancers/feruchemists. I admit it was a broad assumption on my part that those abilities would pervade the society, but do we have any concrete information stating otherwise? Not asking to critique, just curious if there was a post or WoB that I missed. The more I learn the better Ah, I see what you mean. Like how in Warbreaker, one society embraced awakening to the point of making it a religion, while another society viewed it as evil. Although it seems unlikely as the setting on Scadrial (as of AoL) seems very accepting of misting/feruchemal as part and parcel of everyday life, that doesn't include the south as well as potential events that could occur to change such views. Maybe an allomantic Hitler/Stalin (take your pick of dictator) rising or the serial killer mistborn alluded to in the second trilogy? That is an excellent point, but I wouldn't count the possibility out completely yet. How many technologies when thought of at the time were viewed as ludicrous, ended up being prime mainstays in our day to day life? Easiest example off the top of my head, texting. Why would a person go through the trouble of typing on a tiny phone a message instead of calling? Turns out there are tons of reasons and now it is prolific. True the unique nature of the person needed to activate would hinder such development, but depending on the benefit, and how the concept is sold, I could see the possibility still being very viable. Overall, great points to everyone, thank you all for contributing, and looking forward to hopefully even more ideas, suggestions, thoughts and discourse!

Oh! and then awaken him to act like a real boy.

I am probably wrong, but I thought the first time Rock saw Syl, it was implied she let him see her cause she liked him. And bit by bit as people got closer to Kal, she started to let others see her. The main distinguishing factor about Rock was that when he saw her, he "recognized" her as something ingrained in his people's traditions/religion.

Hmmmm Tin Eye, they could be surgeons possibly, or general practitioners. The increase of senses would allow better discernment of symptoms in my opinion. Also they could make excellent snipers. They would require incredibly effective noise canceling headphones though lol. They could replace guard dogs for airport security by sniffing for bombs or in the police for drug busts. They could be gourmands or professional cooks with an extensive and powerful palate. They could excel in certain sports such as golf. Being able to judge a vast difference, feel the shift in the wind, and judge the texture of the green. Which does lead to another dilemma. How would sports leagues be handled? Would there be segregation? An Allomantic league vs a "norms" league? LOL figures I tend to look at military applications because now I am picturing world war 2 era films, but instead of showing blimps dropping bombs, its iron ferrings. Also an idea I had, how about allomantic and/or feruchemal spas/gyms? Let's say you are a steel ferring, recline in luxury while storing speed as people wait on you. Same thing with strength, or mental speed. It would be the ferring version of an old folks home but it would be for storing. Or a rather grim way of viewing things, "drug" dens. Imagine instead of opium dens, you have tin eyes lounging around sniffing very faint strips of perfume, while ensconced in silks/furs.

Pull a reverse Pinocchio. Turn a real boy into a wooden doll. Kinda sadistic, but still lol

Hmmmm, in that case, would the allomancer corps coming in be called scabs or strike breakers? Like anytime the employees start to organize a union or go on strike, just contract some allomancer corps to do the work till the strikers give in. Sweat shops could potentially remain a PRIMARY form of business for a very long time.

So, what I like most about dear Mr. Sanderson's books and by extension this forum, is the rules to his magic systems, and by proxy all the fun things that can be applied to them. I like taking fantasy magic or settings and see how they would interact with my day to day life. Since that is sort of where Brandon is going with the mistborn series I thought I would post some of the thoughts I had and see what everyone else has come up with as well. This is for general fun, and also allows for some speculation for the next trilogy. Some include are: How much does distance and mass affect pushes and pulls? To clarify I do not mean mass as your own, I mean how much does the stuff in the way between you and what you push or pull affect your push or pull? Same with distance. To the best of my recollection it has never been addressed. Wax has pushed and pulled through walls with no problem, but those have been wooden walls and one could argue given the time period, rather thin. What if a coinshot wants to fly down a street by pushing on underground sewer lines? Would how deep, or how much concrete in the way matter? If a lurcher uses light posts to pull, since the ENTIRE light post is made of metal, can the lurcher choose what portion of the light to pull on? Or does he or she have to pull on the ENTIRE post? if it is the former, does the light post have hundreds of allomantic lines streaming towards it when burning steel or iron, or does it have one giant thick blue allomantic line? Would pewter feruchemists, or pewter thugs potentially prevent the advent of machinery used for construction or the assembly line? Which is more cost efficient, building a machine (when it was first developed) to build a car, or pay a pewter thug an hourly wage to work long hours burning pewter. You could either replace machine parts, or switch off pewter thugs. Would this stunt the machine industry or would progress still advance the way it did in the real world? Though machines do need to be repaired, if programmed well, they don't make "mistakes" like a pewter thug might despite burning pewter. This also leads to another question I have had in my mind in instances like x-men, heroes, and also Sanderson's world. If you ran a courier business, and you had a choice between a person (whether normal or with a non applicable ability), a coinshot, or a steel ferring which would you chose to hire? Would abilities tend to pigeon hole individuals into certain careers? Physical disciplines for physical occupations (construction, fire fighters, police), mental disciplines for "mental" careers (zinc feruchemists for engineers or mathematicians for instance).Could every office or maybe even every occupation have their resident "company morale engineer" in the form of a soother or rioter to help make a "happy" work space? Would allomancers have to register their abilities? And in some cases register as a "human weapon"? This has come up in other works of fiction (x-men for one), what about in this one? Would a pewter thug fighting and killing someone while burning pewter count as the same as using a gun in the legal system? Breeze always joked that using his ability was no different than a very charismatic or charming individual. Would soothers and rioters have to walk around with some clear identifier so people would know that they could be manipulated? Would that lead them to be ostracized in modern society? Would it be criminal for them to use their abilities in bars or social situations (like drugging someone's drink), or would it be accepted as par for the course as Breeze presents it should be? Just another skill that a person can use. What types of technologies might be developed or used as result of allomancers? FTL travel has been thrown around a lot, but what about some more mundane concepts? One off the top of my head, though is a stretch could be wheel-less trains like the suspended high speed rails. Potentially if you strap in a whole bunch of lurchers (suspended track) or coinshots (ground track) and have them all push in tandem and timed, you could POSSIBLY have a train car that travels quickly and maybe even inexpensively. It would still rely on human error, but any ideas of other technologies that could sprout up? I realize this turned into a rather long post but these are just some general thoughts I had. Hopefully I am not alone in this lol.

I got what you are saying dude, and this is just to clarify, that is in essence what I said, sorta lol. Yes they kill humans, but not the same way the Lord Ruler does. He takes a human, kills them with a hemalurgic spike to charge it, then gives those spikes to the koloss to use on a human turning him or her into a koloss. After the Lord Ruler croaked, when they killed one of their own, they would remove those spikes, and grab a human and put THOSE spikes into the human. They didn't have the know how to freshly charge the spikes, so each time this happened, there was a loss of charge. That is what Sazed (I think that's who said your quote), was referring to. As the spikes lost the charge bit by bit, it changed the koloss less and less that they had what seemed to be more humanity each time. So, yeah I realize I just basically re-wrote what I and you wrote, but I did so basically to demonstrate we are on the same page lol

There is never anything wrong with rambling in my book, especially considering I do VERY often. Thank you for clarifying and all excellent points edit: I don't agree with them all, (for instance I don't feel Nale is corrupted), but still excellent points and I understand better now

FIrstly I stated on numerous posts that I am assuming my arguments based on the US legal system, and am open to other forms of legal precedent. Given that I live in the US, I am most familiar with that legal system. If you have experience with other legal systems, please ring in on how they would apply to Nale. Secondly, (although this is cited from wikipedia), I have quoted regarding the statute regarding murder below: "In some common law jurisdictions, a defendant accused of murder is not guilty if the victim survives for longer than one year and one day after the attack.[26] This reflects the likelihood that if the victim dies, other factors will have contributed to the cause of death, breaking the chain of causation. Subject to any statute of limitations, the accused could still be charged with an offence representing the seriousness of the initial assault. With advances in modern medicine, most countries have abandoned a fixed time period and test causation on the facts of the case. In England and Wales, the "year-and-a-day-rule" was abolished by the Law Reform (Year and a Day Rule) Act 1996. However, if death occurs three years or more after the original attack then prosecution can take place only with the Attorney-General's approval. In the United States, many jurisdictions have abolished the rule as well.[27][28] Abolition of the rule has been accomplished by enactment of statutory criminal codes, which had the effect of displacing the common-law definitions of crimes and corresponding defenses. In 2001, the Supreme Court of the United States held that retroactive application of a state supreme court decision abolishing the year-and-a-day rule did not violate the Ex Post Facto Clause of Article I of the United States Constitution.[29]" So although it is rare lately, it seems there still does in some places, exist a statute of limitations on murder

So I had another thought that I felt warranted a double post, sorry. I have a new theory. We are SUPPOSED to see what Szeth did as at least on some level as dishonorable. It is to illustrate how any honorable action taken to extreme can be dishonorable. This has occured with Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah and Dalinar (and given enough time I think I can find Renarian and Lift). Kal went overboard trying to protect everyone to the point of making himself suicidal. You can't put people in a bubble under the pretense you are "protecting" them, and protecting only the people you like is as shown selfish and thereby dishonorable. Shallan's honesty comes out in her glib manner and sharp wit. Telling the truth is honorable, but telling the truth without context and restraint hurts and alienates people which is dishonorable. Jasnah, wisdom is honorable, but using your wisdom like a hammer forcing people to do or think as you do is dishonorable. Dalinar, uniting by example is honorable. Uniting by the sword as the blackthorn is dishonorable. Szeth, holding to a code or oath is honorable. Holding to a code or oath to the exclusion of all other information or context is dishonorable.

True that was his interpretation, but it put rather succinctly my point, so I was using it to illustrate my point, not say simply because it is written, it is right lol.

Maybe depending on how far along the oaths you go, is how strong the consequence. When Kaladin was suicidal, he was at the start, so its kind of like......hmmm.....shift gears in a car that is manual? To shift first gear is easy and doesn't take as much speed, but once you hit second, then third, now you have momentum and it takes more speed to shift otherwise you wreck the car. So in that case for Kaladin to break his oaths just as he is reaching the third ideal (basically shifting down from almost third all the way down to first gear while still going like 70 miles an hour. btw I don't drive stick, so the mileage wont be accurate) has to take into account all that "momentum" of meaning or investiture

This is pretty much ye olde zombie apocalypse dilemma but on crack lol. Do I shoot my loved one who is bit before they change, or do I wait, hoping they aren't infected, but risk them changing and possibly infecting others? But this is far worse because one, we are talking EN MASSE, and two since its a storm, you can't prevent them from being "bit"

I need to find exact quotes but I think it is shown in some places that you can be bonded to a dead shardblade and be a radiant, but only when you summon it or hold it, is when it screams. Based on this there are numerous scenes where Eshonai is walking around WITHOUT her shardblade in her hand, and yet she hears the screams. But then again this is based on an assumption I still need to find examples to prove.

Works now, LOL!

Clicked the link and the whole page is FULL of articles, the primary being about Dr. Dre. What are you referencing? lol

Sorry, to clarify, I was not saying it applied to Ym. I thought your question is why that would be possible AT ALL. That why in ANY case would the amount of years from the perpetration of the crime matter, so I was explaining the statute of limitations to answer that query. But the problem with that is how do you measure that? Because you can be damnation sure a lawyer will argue that. How much evidence if not enough evidence case by case? How can you judge a reliable claim case by case? It wastes court time and money deliberating on it. If there is a time limit, then the case can be dismissed out of hand. Is this a good thing? I don't think it is, but that is what the law says.

Well Moogle I do agree with you, but I believe from the legal standpoint, the point of the statute of limitations is two fold. First so the court isn't flooded with seemingly pointless cases (for instance if the crime is so old, any evidence is practically obsolete or lost), or second a form of easement in a way. That the person bringing the case forward can be called into question. How reliable is the claim if it has been left alone for so long? Why is the person coming forward NOW and not then? What changed? Why is it still pertinent? Again I agree with you Moogle, just doing my best to recall the reasons for the statute of limitations in the US (I keep saying US, because I don't want to fall into the age old ego of assuming everyone is from the same country as I am) edit: It is for those issues unfortunately that make a lot of rape and molestation cases so hard to prosecute.

Don't have time to fully think of the implications, but the affect of aluminum on time bubbles is an awesome point! Upvote! (and now I am going to be thinking about this alllllllll day lol) edit: I wonder if you were to shoot an aluminum bullet into a bendalloy or cadnium bubble would it dispel the bubble, or would the bullet just fly through unaffected? Not deflected?

There are multiple examples of cases being pursued LONG after they occurred and it being legal. Rape and molestation cases being the prime examples. The only hitch would be if the statute of limitations ran out.

I will need to check the quote but I recently read the scene, and I am pretty sure Kal realized what the apothecary was doing was illegal by price fixing. ALL the apothecaries came together and decided the price. In US law at least, that IS illegal (though as with all legal systems, there are flaws and ways around it)

This is just me hazarding a guess but I think it has to do with the fact that not all slaves are dark eyes. Slaves can be light eyes as well. It makes lighteyes uncomfortable to know that even they could "fall so low". So false documents can be discovered to be false and proven so. Leveling tons of charges that prevent paying off a debt is immoral, but in and of itself may not be illegal, which is how they got away with it in the real world like Sphinx pointed out.

Destruction of property doesn't count if you voluntarily give someone your property in good faith. By law a reasonable individual would not provide their property to someone they knew to be dangerous. Thereby the destruction of the map is on Tvlakv, not Kaladin. Tvlakv would have to sue for compensation for destroyed property. This came up in a case when an employee driving the employers car on the job, ran a red light, the employer was held liable. Admittedly this is applying the US legal system, but just giving examples as to why this perhaps was not pursued. The apothecary was illegally over charging the lighteyes. Kaladin as a slave does not have a professional duty such as a doctor, officer of the law, or lawyer to act on any occurrence (someone hurt in the case of a doctor, illegal activity in the case of an officer or lawyer). Yes Kal has medical knowledge, but he never became "certified" at the place his father wanted to send him. So keeping his mouth shut isn't in and of itself illegal. Finally he is a slave, he is ordered by the lighteyes to loot the dead. It is legal for slaves to be owned. Since slaves are property, the penalty for looting the dead would be leveled towards the lighteyes that own them. The conspired to murder the king I will have to re read but I think you have me there in that case. Although I preface all I said with the fact that I am applying the US's legal system to Alethi law, and these are my personal understandings/interpretations of such legal practices applied to these instances. So I am definitely NOT saying this is a definitive ruling on each case.

Sorry for the double post, but I have more. The scene where Nale picks up Szeth, even he denounces Szeth's excuses: "Why save me?" Szeth said. "Is my torment not enough?" "Those words are foolishness," Nin said. "Unbecoming of one who would study beneath me." "I don't want to study," Szeth said, curling up on the stone. "I want to be dead." "is that it? Truly, that is what you wish most? I will give it to you, if it is your honest desire." "No," Szeth whispered. "The Voidbringers have returned. I was right, and my people...they were wrong." So, Szeth doesn't truly want to die, and the torment the excuse as to why it was ok for him to live.