Fifth of Daybreak

Thanks, that will help a lot. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm being sincere and that replies like give the appearance that you don't feel I'm putting in the work or the thought on my end, and I promise you I am. I love being corrected, as it helps me towards the right answer, but I also understand that as someone who was a Speech and Debate competitor for four years, and a coach for three years after that, I have both a high standard for disproving things and a tendency to stick to traditional rules of discourse that can make it frustrating to engage with me. If there's a topic you don't want to discuss, I value frankness and honesty, and would prefer that be stated up front, for both of our benefit. I could see it being very useful in a situation where you needed to be stealthy and use your shard weapon, but couldn't use investiture for fear of the Stormlight revealing yourself. Or the other way, to be intimidating and glow suddenly brightly in a dark space to disorient and blind your enemy. Most importantly, it doesn't have to be an inherent ability but just a side effect of perception. If the Knights are able to hold a fixed perception in their mind of what they want they Blade to do, a similar mechanic to a shardbearer holding concentration to throw a Blade, they Spren should be able to comply. Perception is crucial to the magic on Roshar This is a true statement, but we weren't brought into a description of the other orders mid sentence when describing numbers leaving it intentionally vague as it was in the Dalinar chapters. In the epigraph "two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; " So as far as how many, we actually can answer that for 9/10. A large number of Windrunners, and 'much' of their [other 8] membership. Stonewards are left without any sort of qualifying description. The vision alone would be sufficient evidence. The vision, combined with the in world WoR excerpts that appear to contradict itself makes me look for interpretations using evidence we have that we don't have the whole picture. As far as the plate is concerned, I didn't spell it out as clearly in the OP as I should have. In Starfall, we know the Radiants can summon their helmets and dismiss them. From there, it's not an unreasonable assumption that they could do that with all their plate as well, and engage in the great subterfuge that way. Thank you for taking the time to reply despite your reluctance to engage in the topic. I do greatly appreciate it and I consider it a personal favor.

I just got a green screen yesterday .

(Love your screen name ) Probably would be better for everyone if I just recorded myself and then clipped down to the highlights.

I'm going to have Tuesday's hottest Twitch stream. (Disclaimer: Satire. I have no intentions of getting sued by my hero.)

I keep the Fry meme on phone just for Sanderson facebook posts haha.

Sanderson is the one author I have to read first. He's also the only author I own just about every book in multiple formats. I've got physical books signed for lending to people, ebooks for referencing quotes and initial reads, and audiobooks for rereading infinity times before I die. My goal is to get Brandon enough money to build Peter his own secret underground theater so he doesn't have to share.

Haha when I first read Mistborn, I was pronouncing 'feruchemy' "pharoah-shemy" in my head and then I introduced my friend to the series and he said "feru-chemy" and I stopped and thought to myself "like iron and chemistry. That makes way more sense."

Stealing this from the Meme thread...

I tried several times, using the forums search and Google search, and also using refinement by date and several different search criteria, to try and see if this has been posted before. As I said yesterday, it's hard to catch up from three years missing. There's not a lot on any of those threads that I haven't managed to sum up in about three posts, and there's no counter argument there that's definitive against the argument that you and I put forth. How many Stonewards? The quote we have from the vision cuts off before we get any information except on the Windrunners. Why is it impossible for them to have faked their breaking of oaths? If they can modulate size and shape, why can't they modulate the way they glow? We have some evidence in text that it could change, depending on the interpretation. In the first it's described as 'brilliantly silvery,' then glowing the color of garnet, then the last passage suggests it wasn't glowing until she activated the oathgate. It's one thing to say that you don't agree with my assessment or that you don't find it likely, but to post a bunch of threads that never address the points I make when you've made the points yourself and they still haven't been fully addressed is not a definitive 'no' to the theory. I'm finding it very confusing on how to engage with you. On the other thread, I couldn't get you to engage the thesis for the minutiae, and on this one, you won't address the supporting minutiae for having already dismissed the thesis. If it's not something you're on board with personally, simply state that like Calderis did, and we can amiably leave it at that. Please don't fail to address my points while also telling me I'm wrong.

*Axies smiles at you* "Are you a boy or a girl?"

I just listened to that scene and had the same thought

"The importance of Kaladin's time being earnest with the parshmen." Fixed it for you.

I'm throwing my vote in for Shallan as well. The whole “Don’t panic,” he said. “It’s a good thing.” line screams of foreshadowing bad things for Shallan, who is technically a Ghostblood now. I'm very interested in how that plays out.

Posting my favorite moments as I go, so I'll go back and read later. "Gloryspren burst up about Kaladin’s head. Syl took on the form of a person just so she could glower at the little bobbing balls of light. “Mine,” she said, swatting one of them aside." "The rest of the room was decorated lavishly. She was pretty sure she’d seen those tapestries in a monastery in Dalinar’s warcamp, and they were matched by luxurious furniture, golden lamps, and ceramics." Ha! Classic Sebarial! He kept everything he rescued from that Highstorm. "At their head was Jasnah Kholin." WHAT?!?! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! DON'T END HERE AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS SO MUCH WORSE OF A CLIFFHANGER THAN ANYTHING I COULD IMAGINE I NEED IT!

Live Shardblade can change their shape, general form, and size. This would be the heart of the subterfuge. We don't have hard numbers on how many stonewards were actually there at Feverstone. It could be hundreds, it could not be. 'Large numbers' is used to describe the Windrunners, not the Stonewards. The choas of battle is also the perfect time to puff away stealthily. Two people are fighting over a shard on the ground, the one kills the other, goes to grab the weapon and it's suddenly gone. Plus, from my interpretation, they just need to fool other Radiants. I wasn't suggesting you presented them as mutually exclusive. I was pointing out that having a sword for 5,000 doesn't teach you what kind of sword it is. They would have to get that information from outside sources. We've seen no evidence of any discussion of specific power sets in WoR, so I disagree with probably. He also says they were the last. If this is interpreted to mean breaking Oaths, it's self contradictory.

This might be a cultural difference that we aren't seeing eye to eye on this. I don't know anything at all about how the legal system operates in Sweden, but those exact kind of scenarios can get your criminal charges bumped up in the U.S. if they happen while you are doing something illegaly. For example, in my town a year or two ago, a group of teenagers broke into a home and the owner shot and killed someone. They four other kids ended up getting a charge for his death added on top of the breaking and entering. Intent is used in very specific instances, but still isn't a gold standard. For instance, I could face prison time if, while running lights and sirens to an emergency on the ambulance we hit another car and cause a death. Hoid didn't say he wants to watch the world crumble, he says should this situation arise, I will do this. I would also note that he pairs this with a warning for Dalinar not to trust him, being open and honest about his ulterior motive, something the other two have yet to do unless forced or in a position of uncompromised authority.

There's nothing to say that they stay lying on the field as the radiants walk until the choas starts, then puff away. They don't get very far, so they aren't straining the bond. It's implied Syl flew a lot farther to get the leaves for Kaladin on early oaths. How do we know this? Can you cite this for me? We have no reason to think that possessing the Honorblade would somehow teach them the proper names for surgebinder abilities, such as lashings and regrowth, terms used in the Are Arcanum and by Wyndle. Their use in other areas suggests a standardized, technically defined knowledge that the Shin have. Possessing the Blades for 5,000 years shouldn't give them technical definitions. Learning from KR is the more likely of the two you present. I had missed the italicized 'you', thanks for the correction. Except that it contradicts what we know of Shin culture, unless have can find a good reason for why the Stone Shamans are not subject to that cultural rule:

It's crazy theory time. I've had a lot of weird thoughts jumping around my head about the Shin that have been put against the whetstone thanks to @The One Who Connects and @Calderis . I want to put this out there as refined as I can make it and see what will stick to the wall and what gets winnowed away. So a few pieces of hard fact. 1: They have the Honorblades and technical knowledge that, so far, we don't think anyone could get just by possessing them. 2: They revere the spren of stones. 3: Heralds are their gods. 4: Szeth's claim that made him Truthless was related to the Voidbringers returning and seeing Kaladin surgebind made him belive that he was correct and should not be Truthless. 5: Szeth is confident that the Shin Stone Shamans would be able to retrieve the Honorblade easily. Now in Dalinar's flashback, we see Stonewards and Windrunners forswearing their oaths. But I want to examine it through the lens of the Words of Radiance Epigraphs. This is where I expect some immediate blowback if some of these have been solved and I'm unaware. So, laying out my interpretation for this, it seems as though Feverstone keep would be what's being described in Chapter 38. This would then also imply that the Stonewards were "primary among those who would forswear and abandon their oaths." Now the author of Words of Radiance probably didn't have the advantage of getting front row seats to visions from the Almighty, but if we can safely assume that this is talking about Feverstone Keep and the Stonewards and Windrunners, this directly contradicts the description of the Stonewards from Chapter 13: "they thought it a point of virtue to exemplify resolve, strength, and dependability." But what if the last portion we have in the book chronologically is actually describing that somehow the Stonewards were able to fake forswearing their oaths, and instead survived as an order, possibly up to this day? We know Radiants can summon their helmets, alter the shape and size of their Blades. What if they just left their spren there until they were far enough away until they could puff away in the confusion to be resummoned later when they were safely away from the others? They then could seek out the Honorblades, and influence the culture of the civilization there. It's theoretically possible that their spren could communicate with the spren on the other side to seek out the potential stonewards and keep the Stone Shamans alive through the years, protecting the Honorblades and watching for the Voidbringers. Am I crazy?

A visual representation of how my opinion has changed on this thread. Well put. https://m.imgur.com/gallery/WGL2dWb

Can we all just take a moment and thank Brandon for creating the opportunity for this phrase to exist? Well spoken!

@Necessary Eagle Apparently I need to work on my reading comprehension.

*Pats you on the back* There, their, they're. It's ok.

I don't personally think he was either, but intimating your intention to do something bad to stop something [assumed] worse, or achieve an [assumed] greater goal, should that situation arise, isn't worth our judgement. If they follow through, we should evaluate that situation and judge then. I still see a large difference between letting something happen and actively killing people to achieve your goals, something we know Hoid can't do: Secret History spoilers It's hard to say we give him a pass when we know it's not possible for him to commit the same type of reprehensible actions as the others. If/when we see Hoid do something terrible to achieve his goals I'll reassess, but one line by him is not nearly worth the weight of evidence we have for the other two.