Fifth of Daybreak

Are we sure other skybreakers do alter their emotional state? I had only noticed Nalan doing being described as emotionless.

Chapter 86 Patterns of light. Page 1030 "What in Kelek's tongue is going on out here?"

I definitely noticed a weird fixation on Kelek's oropharynx. Kelek's breath is used 4 times, and one strange instance of Kelek's tongue. What in the world did Kelek eat that made his breath and tongue into a curse?

I'm going to have to go with Jasnah's false soulcaster. The whole true lie dynamic with Pattern intrigued me, and that's exactly what the soulcaster is. I think it might be what drew Shallan to her (other than to steal) because she subliminally recognized the truth and the lie in it, being a dormant lightweaver.

What a great observation! I've got a theory that might play into this as well. I just posted it on another thread, so I copied and pasted the majority of it. I think that Szeth doesn't feel nauseous because he no longer has a spiritual aspect to him, that it was removed by the shardblade and did that's why Nin revived him when he did. Here's my reasoning below from the other thread: Emotion. That seems to be something that Nin does not have. In Lift's chapter it mentions over and over again that he never speaks with emotion. In fact, Lift doesn't seem to accept him as a real person. (I don't have the exact quote, sorry.) Here is my theory for that. Nin doesn't have a soul. He used the same fabrial as on Szeth, after he died, his soul cut, dead for sure, but before the brain dies. Nin doesn't want the spiritual aspect of himself, or Szeth to get in the way, and so he used a weapon that doesn't target the physical or cognitive aspects, just the soul. That's why Nin doesn't ever use any emotions. That's why he never approached Szeth before this. He needed to wait until Szeth's soul was severed. After Kaladin killed Szeth's soul when he attacked, and that broke him enough to overload the other two aspects, causing apparent death, but as others have survived without physical bodies, the physical and cognitive can survive without the spiritual, with a little help. This also might make it easier for him to invest, as now there is a HUGE space that can be filled with investiture, instead of just a broken soul to be filled. Now Szeth doesn't seem to be reacting in the same way Nin has been, but that could be force of habit. In fact, nowhere in the chapter does he describe any emotions Szeth is feeling directly, just actions. There was also the problem of the honorblade he was bound to, but that was taken care of as well. So that is what makes Szeth such a perfect compliment to Nightblood. No emotion, a willpower as hard as steel. No traces of evil, just obedience. He did what his own personal moral code asked of him always, and isn't that what would constitute evil? Not an outside arbiter to decide, but instead your own morality and how closely you stick to that code. This also ties in to my theory that the skybreakers used to be bonded to spren, but voluntarily broke their oaths to prevent the return of the voidbringers. I had this idea mostly from Helaran. He had a blade no one could identify (newer blade) but it had a gemstone on the hilt. He had dealings with Hoid (cosmere significant,) Mraize mentioned he had sought out the skybreakers, and King T thought Shallan might have learned from him. So with his masterpiece skybreaker, Nin took it a step further, and completely severed the spiritual aspect of Szeth, instead of just having him kill a spren he was bonded to.

These are all interesting theories! I like the lifeless tie ins, though I'm not sure I agree, even if I like it a lot. First off, I do think it was a fabrial, or maybe a spren, that he used to bring him back. In the section there is this snippet So there is that, which shows that it was some outside force, other than himself that caused him to come back to life. I also don't think it is a lifeless reawakening. Lifeless don't have to be restored at a certain time do they? So this stipulation doesn't matter. Also, Brandon wants to keep Stormlight Archives as independent as possible, so throwing in a Deus Ex Nalthis doesn't seem to fit with it, especially since Nightblood is already a big crossover. However, there are some other hints in here that I think point towards the truth of the matter. The first is above. "your soul cut through, dead for certain." "Not if it is done before the brain dies." Then there is this little snippet. Emotion. That seems to be something that Nin does not have. In Lift's chapter it mentions over and over again that he never speaks with emotion. In fact, Lift doesn't seem to accept him as a real person. (I don't have the exact quote, sorry.) Here is my theory for that. Nin doesn't have a soul. He used the same fabrial as on Szeth, after he died, his soul cut, dead for sure, but before the brain dies. Nin doesn't want the spiritual aspect of himself, or Szeth to get in the way, and so he used a weapon that doesn't target the physical or cognitive aspects, just the soul. That's why Nin doesn't ever use any emotions. That's why he never approached Szeth before this. He needed to wait until Szeth's soul was severed. After Kaladin killed Szeth's soul when he attacked, and that broke him enough to overload the other two aspects, causing apparent death, but as others have survived without physical bodies, the physical and cognitive can survive without the spiritual, with a little help. This also might make it easier for him to invest, as now there is a HUGE space that can be filled with investiture, instead of just a broken soul to be filled. Now Szeth doesn't seem to be reacting in the same way Nin has been, but that could be force of habit. In fact, nowhere in the chapter does he describe any emotions Szeth is feeling directly, just actions. There was also the problem of the honorblade he was bound to, but that was taken care of as well. So that is what makes Szeth such a perfect compliment to Nightblood. No emotion, a willpower as hard as steel. No traces of evil, just obedience. He did what his own personal moral code asked of him always, and isn't that what would constitute evil? Not an outside arbiter to decide, but instead your own morality and how closely you stick to that code. This also ties in to my theory that the skybreakers used to be bonded to spren, but voluntarily broke their oaths to prevent the return of the voidbringers. I had this idea mostly from Helaran. He had a blade no one could identify (newer blade) but it had a gemstone on the hilt. He had dealings with Hoid (cosmere significant,) Mraize mentioned he had sought out the skybreakers, and King T thought Shallan might have learned from him. So with his masterpiece skybreaker, Nin took it a step further, and completely severed the spiritual aspect of Szeth, instead of just having him kill a spren he was bonded to.

At the signing I went to he really stressed that 25% of the creative process is you the reader filling in the gaps (how characters look and sound, and how the names are pronounced.) To this day I think Feruchemist should be pronounced Fir-ro-shem-ist, just because that sounds really cool to me.

Brandon states over and over again when answering questions that much of the power granted in the cosmere has to do with perception. That's stated as why Kaladin has such a hard time adjusting to lashing to the walls. Now, when we apply that logic to the two we know who use lashing, we can really understand why the language changes the way it does as it had been stated earlier. Szeth most likely had some sort of education on how the lashings worked. He's a technical study, and as such, quantifies the ability in his mind as he goes through the motions. This works much in the same way as the ardents measuring the flame spren-giving it a number quantifies it for him, because that is how he is perceiving the power leaving him. Kaladin is learning all from instinct. As he begins to explore his power, he doesn't have the mental constraints of a formal training, and so he doesn't have any preconceptions on how the power should work either. Now, once he had started to get the hang of the way it worked, he was still using it on a "I want this, let's make it happen" level. It works on an instinctual level, kind of like when you're driving on ice doing donuts and things. As you get more acquainted with the physics of the vehicle on ice, you can continue to improve, even though you don't realize exactly why and how it works that way, only that it does. So as Kaladin whips towards impending face splattering he thinks, "need to turn." He comes towards the turn, which we don't know how sharp of one it is, which is also important on how the centrifugal force would affect him and his flight path, and he lashes himself to the wall. The pull of one lashing would initially feel like a rope pulling on you, because it works in almost the same way. There is a force that it pulling you away from the straight line. The angle of the turn, if sharper, would still leave some time to react, and so he would instinctively "pull harder" or lash more towards that way to get the degree of turn that he needed. In fact, I think the term 'lashing' itself expalins this in a marvelous way. I imagine it as a spring or a rubber band that he affixes to himself and to a distant point. It constantly puts tension on him that brings him towards it. Because he is able to modify the strength of the force bringing him that way, he can manipulate it to work in the way he needs it to, even if it's only by instinct, because of the way he perceives the power to work.

I agree. I thought that after meeting with Hoid, Shallan's father was much more reserved. It seems to be one of the few times he opens up to her and is more deflated than angry. I think that Hoid hadn't wanted to use emotional allomancy on him before, but after seeing Shallan enter, he wanted to make sure that his anger at Hoid wasn't spread to anyone not deserving, so he soothed away the anger before departing.

Tinkerbell is definitely an honorspren.

Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor (storming name is harder to spell than it is to pronounce) and The Lopen are definitely the second best. I'm hoping that eventually a certain pessimistic Dula will meet up with them and form the greatest friendship trio in the history of friendship trios. ....yes...and I get the same reaction to my jokes as she does most of the time.

Does anyone have an idea if it had been mentioned where the honorblade came into the picture? I found another snipped relating to his banishment in I-14 WoR, but it doesn't help much as to where he got the blade. "Szeth had been banished from Shinovar, made Truthless for something relating to a claim that the Voidbringers had returned." Once again, it was pure speculation on my part from my assumption that he had picked up an honorblade as part of raising the alarm. The shin have seven of the blades, at least I assume so from a passage in the same interlude "...One of the honorblades has vanished....'One of the other seven?'...Your people are secretive, but yes." Then, jumping back to I-10, almost immediately after the first passage I quoted: "The powers of old are no more. The Knights Radiant are fallen. We are all that remains. All that remains...Truthless." So I extrapolated from all this that the Shin are something of both a protector and a watcher. They protect the honorblades from being abused and keep them secreted away at Urithiru, which they somehow know about (I-10 "The only place in the East where the stones were not cursed, where walking on them was allowed. This place was holy.") But they also keep watch in case they will be needed again (protecting them for the heralds maybe? not sure myself.) I also have to imagine that Szeth's family has been somehow entrusted with that duty, considering Szeth does not like being referred to as Szeth-Son-Naturo, as he thinks it brings shame to his father. So my theory was that he picked up an honorblade when he raised the alarm about the voidbringers, intending to either lead the charge against them, or at least have the power to protect using the honorblade, but then was denounced by the shin, and exiled with an oathstone. I also find it unlikely that he took a blade intending to use it on people, but rather to try and prevent the end of the world. But, something is nagging at my mind saying that he was given the honorblade, but I can't seem to find the passage. I've got my regular book on my right side, and my e-book on my left and still nothing haha.

So I was watching the local highschool put on Cinderella for their spring musical the other day, and I was thinking about Sanderson instead of paying attention, when it clicked. Cinderella has to be a lightweaver. Bam, Cinderella is a lightweaver.

Hmm, I don't disagree, I had assumed that in announcing that the voidbringers were returning he had taken the honorblade as part of the crime. I-10 is where he mentions his banishment. "Years ago, Szeth had been banished for raising the alarm. The false alarm, it had been said." So there's the heresy. I guess I missed the part where he had been given the honorblade as part of the banishment to become truthless. So does that mean the other slaves are not truthless themselves, but instead a different title for their punishment?

I think that everyone who picks up a blade was made Truthless. In the Rysn chapter, they mention the slaves, and then talk about how they often trade away their stones as a way of marking who their owners are. I think what was special about Szeth, was the weapon he picked up. I can't find the immediate chapter, but we know in the Rysn chapter the Shin revere farmers who are "ones-who-add, whereas in the chapter I can't find, Szeth refers to himself as "one who takes away." So in this stable society, weapons are the unholy because they don't add to a society, but rather weakens it, and so as part of their law or religion, I'm not sure which, the ones who take away become truthless, so that they don't decide for themselves what is destroyed. It's tied heavily into their honor system as well, which is what points me to think it is the religion. In the recorded in blood chapter, Szeth at first wants to kill Taravangian, but he doesn't. "Or I could kill him, Szeth thought, I could stop this. He nearly did it. But honor prevailed, for the moment." This seems to show that it is only by choice at redeeming his honor that Szeth follows his masters will. He kills hundreds to thousands of people to preserve his honor, working against his emotions. In the Taravangian interlude in Words of Radiance, they mention how Szeth shows some emotion, and that he's insane. He seemed hopeful that there were surgebinders, and that he wouldn't have to follow his oath anymore, because his honor is worth more than his sanity. Following either the law or his religion means more to him than the lives he takes and his own personal moral code. I think these are the reasons that he is an ideal candidate for the Skybreakers. Not because he's truthless, but because he buried his emotions and sanity, and without fault, listened to every person that held the oathstone. He wasn't interested because of the honorblade, but because he was a man that truly lived the ideals that the Skybreakers hold to. Especially that of suppressing his emotions. Especially in the Lift chapter, it's made abundantly clear that Nalan does not have any emotion. Szeth already was most of the way to completely suppressing his emotion, while following the law. If there is anything else that would be more attractive to Nalan, I'm not sure what it could be. Also, I have a theory on that. Nalan mentions that Szeth had died. The blade had severed his soul, but Nalan brought back his mind. I believe this has killed off the rest of the emotions that Szeth still had. He's completely a cognitive and physical being, with his spiritual self disconnected from the rest of him. Along with the "training" that he endured, being a cold blooded and calculating killer with one of the most powerful relics in the cosmere makes him one heck of a candidate for "Skybreaker of the Month."

Hi there! So someone mentioned the guy referencing the gemstone on Helaran's blade at the Chicago signing. That was me. Pretty awesome experience to meet Brandon. He's a wonderful man with a great sense of humor and he obviously had a hand of steel for signing that many books, and going to another event that night. (He signed 6 of my books and things.) But anyways, I am very interested in this topic. I actually had missed the Taravangian reference first go around, and hadn't gotten to it yet in my audio reread, or I would've pressed further on Helaran. At this point my theory is that he was a surgebinder, but that he betrayed his oaths in his decision to kill Amaram. I first got the idea that he might be a Surgebinder by his blade. It's referenced several times that no one knows the history of the blade. The devil is in the details when it comes to reading Sanderson. While Amaram explains this away by saying no one identified the assassin, that doesn't explain why any written histories would ignore the tradition of knowing which shardblade belongs to who over time. My second clue came with the interlude chapter at the fair. I'm assuming that it's Hoid who is meeting with Shallan's father when she returns, and he is running an errand for Helaran. Hoid doesn't seem like the character to run errands for people who aren't important. So how had he met Helaran? Then, he seemed to be surprised to meet Shallan. This plays into his "right place right time" ability, but at the same time, he would've had to have met Helaran first, and enagaged with him in some, which I believe marks him as important, as Hoid only goes where he needs to be. Then, when I was standing in line to meet him, I noticed the gemstone on his blade, so I quickly revised my question. Instead of asking if he was bonded to a spren, I asked Brandon what happens to a spren when it's bonded dies. He replied that it would be an emotional event, but not cognitively shattering. I made the offhand comment that it meant that Helaran would not be a surgebinder, and he smiled a secret smile, before asking me why. I told him that with the gemstone evidence and his answer, it seemed pretty conclusive. He again, gave a knowing smile, and this time there was a twinkle in his eye, and he said "That's a big clue." It all seemed very suspect, like I was being played with, and he was enjoying the hunt. The conversation ended with me telling him I wasn't convinced because he was sneaky, which only broadened his smile. So with the contradicting evidence, that leads to a few theories. The first being that, as I stated, Helaran had bonded with a Spren and broken his oath. This seems to satisfy all the evidence presented. He needed a gemstone to rebond with his blade. Kaladin beat him in fight where Helaran was wearing plate and using his blade. Helaran's blade is either new, or not found until recently. Hoid had interactions with Helaran that convinced him to do him a favor. Helaran's death wouldn't have left his spren shattered into a blade. My second theory, is that all of the skybreakers used to be bonded to spren. They chose to reject their oaths, in order to kill the spren, and prevent the return of the voidbringers. In the Lift chapter, they make the comment about asking when the constables started being able to requisition sharblades. That could mean that they had sharblades to requisition, but had not noticed a disappearance, as it seems that sort of thing would be well recorded and newsworthy across the nations. This also can lead to the assumption that the skybreakers stayed with the spren long enough to form the blade, then ​voluntarily broke their oaths to kill the spren. Thoughts?

Hello there! My name is Trevor,I started reading Sanderson a couple of years ago during my ambulance internship for my Associates degree in Paramedic Sciences. I picked up the Ebook copy of Mistborn on a whim, and now when I tell other people about his work, I say that he "ruined other authors for me. (Definitely why I'm thankful he's so prolific.) Anywho, I've been lurking in the shadows of the threads for awhile, but I haven't yet posted. Well, scratch that. You future people reading it will have seen that as a lie, even though it's a truth at this moment. (A little goodie for those of you bonded to cryptics.) Unfortunately, I have very few people to discuss things with, as I've convinced only a few people to read through it, to whom I speak with regularly. As I'm sure many of you feel, there's just too much madness in his details to not explode out of the astute readers head, so I joined up, and after making it through all the cosmere related novels multiple times (sometimes in multiple formats!) I'm ready to discuss, before I explode from all the Sanderson fanboy screaming that happens anytime I'm not distracted by the real world. Nice to meet everyone! I look forward to some great discussions!